Do you believe anyone can be pro if provided the same opportunity?

lumpy790
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9/7/2023 5:45pm

Maybe 5% of riders make A class. Of those A riders how many go Pro? 1% ?

1
Mit12
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Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
9/8/2023 1:23am

Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me with the cost, so do what I did was get a job save up your money and purchase a bike and gear practice and race. The opportunities do not happen until you are winning the amateur races. I made it all the way to the pro class locally. I worked 40 plus hours a week so that I could pay my own way. It can be done but most people will not sacrifice everything just so that they can race. 

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WillGoody3
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Haynes, WA, AU
9/8/2023 6:00am

I don’t think so as at the factory level, if you take a decent say 10 year old and give him all the training and all the opportunity anddive fully into it. You probably could get anyone a pro licence or on some sort of team at the races. But champions and even factory level riders are a different breed I believe. I think it was Carmichael that said “Champions are born”, which pretty much sums it up. 

1
zookrider62!
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9/8/2023 6:29am
Mit12 wrote:
Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me...

Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me with the cost, so do what I did was get a job save up your money and purchase a bike and gear practice and race. The opportunities do not happen until you are winning the amateur races. I made it all the way to the pro class locally. I worked 40 plus hours a week so that I could pay my own way. It can be done but most people will not sacrifice everything just so that they can race. 

Are you talking about in the 70's? 

You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for them, and have the opportunity to ride every day with a coach, and race multiple classes a weekend. Then there is a kid whose parents do not offer support, so he has to wait until he is old enough to have a job, buy a bike, ride when they can between work, school, and being able to afford to go riding/racing.

 

You think those two scenarios are an even playing field?

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The Shop

truck
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9/8/2023 6:42am
Mit12 wrote:
Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me...

Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me with the cost, so do what I did was get a job save up your money and purchase a bike and gear practice and race. The opportunities do not happen until you are winning the amateur races. I made it all the way to the pro class locally. I worked 40 plus hours a week so that I could pay my own way. It can be done but most people will not sacrifice everything just so that they can race. 

Are you talking about in the 70's?  You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for...

Are you talking about in the 70's? 

You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for them, and have the opportunity to ride every day with a coach, and race multiple classes a weekend. Then there is a kid whose parents do not offer support, so he has to wait until he is old enough to have a job, buy a bike, ride when they can between work, school, and being able to afford to go riding/racing.

 

You think those two scenarios are an even playing field?

It's not an even playing field, but those with less love to give the different circumstances all the credit for others' success. It's easier than admitting someone is just better than you. 

Chris_Buehler
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9/8/2023 6:46am

Starting kids young, 3-5yrs old, and giving them great equipment will usually make them pretty good riders. Fast B riders, middle of the pack A riders. But having that extra ingredient to make them something special is just something you're born with. The genetic lottery.  We've all been to local races with kids on 85's that have multiple bikes, insane rigs worth hundreds of thousands. It doesn't translate into them being pros we've ever heard of.

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motomike894
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9/8/2023 7:45am

No they can’t, to be a top tier pro requires a skill set and mentality that not just anyone has or can be taught or given. 
 

I know plenty people, aka psycho mini dads that spend insane amounts money on their kids with trainers, bikes, living at facilities etc. and not a single one of them I know or have done it ever turned out to be anything but a good local pro that could barely make a national. 
 

You can’t teach or buy talent, work ethic, and the mental side of things that make a top guy think like they do. 
 

now if you’re rich and can spend the money on bikes and training, yes you can make a shitty rider better for sure but not a legit professional no. 

1
9/8/2023 7:57am
brimx153 wrote:
I ve taught art . I know it's different to sport or MX .but I strongly feel the same about it . I can tell after...

I ve taught art . I know it's different to sport or MX .but I strongly feel the same about it . I can tell after the first 30 mins , if someone can learn to be really good at it . Or they can spend every day for the rest of there life doing it and still won't get great at it.  I think u need talent to start with then lots of hard work.  If u have zero talent stating out Mx doesn't matter how much u spend or practice u will never make it as a pro.    Other example is I have a friend who started Mx late in life , like 30 . He does everything wrong . terrible style, but since day one , riding a bike for the first time had unreal corner speed . Some people just have " IT " ..

Mjones618 wrote:

You'd think turning a dirt bike would be easy and corners would be the easiest part on the track haha but it's totally opposite 

Last wed was my 1st ride of the yr.  1st lap I linked 4 corners together like there where 1. The flow felt Soo good. 1st one has a long rut with silt in it . Into a short hard pack with silt on top a few small whoops into a 2 option left then a quick rt then another quick rt.  No thinking about it’s kinda similar to breaking 3 defenders to hit a game winning shot. 1 uphill is a 4th gear wo launch. The top was chewed up  , I kinda hit a angle on the lip. I landed off the track.  You forget about instantly & go for it the next lap.  Your mental state has to be rt to use your talent.  Talent can get you into the top 3 for a lap or 2. That’s with 12 laps of practice.  My body is Really busted up. Back, neck pinching pain I can’t turn my head. Back of shoulder & front to my wrist that might hv 2 fractures . Shoulder to wrist ligaments r a mess. I can’t lift my arm out to the side. So body position is the key. 

2
TeamGreen
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9/8/2023 8:04am
joshd wrote:

Between the ears is probably the biggest limiting factor. 

Very true. 

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TDeath21
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9/8/2023 8:20am

If you are decently athletic and your parents have the means to have you ride a ton from the time you’re 3-5 years old, yes I do believe you’ll be a pro. Pro in the sense that you’ll make the night show in SX and make the 40 rider gate in MX. Now getting to the points paying positions is an entirely different animal and I don’t think everyone could do that.

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Mit12
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9/8/2023 8:48am Edited Date/Time 9/8/2023 8:52am
Mit12 wrote:
Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me...

Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me with the cost, so do what I did was get a job save up your money and purchase a bike and gear practice and race. The opportunities do not happen until you are winning the amateur races. I made it all the way to the pro class locally. I worked 40 plus hours a week so that I could pay my own way. It can be done but most people will not sacrifice everything just so that they can race. 

Are you talking about in the 70's?  You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for...

Are you talking about in the 70's? 

You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for them, and have the opportunity to ride every day with a coach, and race multiple classes a weekend. Then there is a kid whose parents do not offer support, so he has to wait until he is old enough to have a job, buy a bike, ride when they can between work, school, and being able to afford to go riding/racing.

 

You think those two scenarios are an even playing field?

With what you are saying you are giving your self an excuse as to why you cant do it. I beat a lot of guys that did not have to work and rode every day. Would I have been faster if I did not have to work and pay my own way? Probably yes, but it can be done. I raced in the early 80s. I gave up everything to race, no dating, no school functions nothing! The question is would you? I spent every penny I made to go racing. It is a huge sacrifice but it can be done. I was not entitled to anything nor should anyone now days, but we live in a different world. If you want it bad enough you can make it the pro level but If you are like me my results would not allow me to get enough support to quit working. Reality sucks. 

1
zookrider62!
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9/8/2023 8:59am
Mit12 wrote:
Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me...

Every one starts out with the same opportunity so I do not think that your question makes sense. My parents could not afford to help me with the cost, so do what I did was get a job save up your money and purchase a bike and gear practice and race. The opportunities do not happen until you are winning the amateur races. I made it all the way to the pro class locally. I worked 40 plus hours a week so that I could pay my own way. It can be done but most people will not sacrifice everything just so that they can race. 

Are you talking about in the 70's?  You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for...

Are you talking about in the 70's? 

You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for them, and have the opportunity to ride every day with a coach, and race multiple classes a weekend. Then there is a kid whose parents do not offer support, so he has to wait until he is old enough to have a job, buy a bike, ride when they can between work, school, and being able to afford to go riding/racing.

 

You think those two scenarios are an even playing field?

Mit12 wrote:
With what you are saying you are giving your self an excuse as to why you cant do it. I beat a lot of guys that...

With what you are saying you are giving your self an excuse as to why you cant do it. I beat a lot of guys that did not have to work and rode every day. Would I have been faster if I did not have to work and pay my own way? Probably yes, but it can be done. I raced in the early 80s. I gave up everything to race, no dating, no school functions nothing! The question is would you? I spent every penny I made to go racing. It is a huge sacrifice but it can be done. I was not entitled to anything nor should anyone now days, but we live in a different world. If you want it bad enough you can make it the pro level but If you are like me my results would not allow me to get enough support to quit working. Reality sucks. 

Im slow, always have been, always will be, im fine with that. My initial post was most people given every advantage could make to it b/local pro, I don't consider myself in that group. I'm pretty confident that I would always be terrible, no matter what the circumstances are.

 

But you said everyone starts out with the same opportunity, which is just categorically false.

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tomlopez
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9/8/2023 9:16am Edited Date/Time 9/8/2023 9:19am

I think the world tells kids a lie when they say that going pro in a sport is as simple as "hard work". If you were a kid that played baseball in the era during or after Derek Jeter's career (I was), then you've heard his quote, "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard", and everyone thinks he's some modern-day Aristotle for saying that. But my refute to it was always "what about when talent does work hard?". Natural talent is a very real thing and society tends to act like it's not.

Riding a dirt bike never came naturally to me... I'm absolutely horrible and look like an uncoordinated, timid mess compared to any solid rider. I've never totally dedicated myself to it in the least bit, but I've known people that picked it up a lot faster than I did. On the flip side, I've always had a natural talent for music. I started playing guitar at 8 and got very good at it by the time I was a young teen without ever having a particularly strict practice schedule, whereas a lot of people in their teens, 20s, 30s, and beyond, dedicate themselves to practicing an instrument every single day for years and just never quite "get" it. I use music/guitar as an example because it's probably the most obvious area where "talent" clearly exists and people have seemed to accept it. When somebody asks a non-musician if they sing/can play an instrument, they will typically reply with "no, music was never my thing, never really grasped it. I took a few guitar lessons as a kid but sucked", or something to that extent. Whereas, if you ask a dude who's, let's say, never played basketball if they can play basketball, they will say something like "no, I never really spent much time on a court so I would suck". Notice how their admitted lack of skill is credited to a lack of effort rather than a lack of a gift/natural talent.

People seem to ignore talent in sports even though it's very present. 100 people with identical physical stature/size/fitness could put in equal effort into being a great motocross racer, baseball player, football player, etc., but there will likely be 1 or 2 that stand out above the rest while the rest are just "decent" riders or players.

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Mit12
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Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
9/8/2023 10:50am
Are you talking about in the 70's?  You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for...

Are you talking about in the 70's? 

You don't see any advantage to someone born rich, who can have the best bikes, set up specifically for them, and have the opportunity to ride every day with a coach, and race multiple classes a weekend. Then there is a kid whose parents do not offer support, so he has to wait until he is old enough to have a job, buy a bike, ride when they can between work, school, and being able to afford to go riding/racing.

 

You think those two scenarios are an even playing field?

Mit12 wrote:
With what you are saying you are giving your self an excuse as to why you cant do it. I beat a lot of guys that...

With what you are saying you are giving your self an excuse as to why you cant do it. I beat a lot of guys that did not have to work and rode every day. Would I have been faster if I did not have to work and pay my own way? Probably yes, but it can be done. I raced in the early 80s. I gave up everything to race, no dating, no school functions nothing! The question is would you? I spent every penny I made to go racing. It is a huge sacrifice but it can be done. I was not entitled to anything nor should anyone now days, but we live in a different world. If you want it bad enough you can make it the pro level but If you are like me my results would not allow me to get enough support to quit working. Reality sucks. 

Im slow, always have been, always will be, im fine with that. My initial post was most people given every advantage could make to it b/local...

Im slow, always have been, always will be, im fine with that. My initial post was most people given every advantage could make to it b/local pro, I don't consider myself in that group. I'm pretty confident that I would always be terrible, no matter what the circumstances are.

 

But you said everyone starts out with the same opportunity, which is just categorically false.

I get your thinking although we have a difference of opinion I would say that in MX having everything available will not ensure that the average person can make it to the pro level. In car racing equipment makes a huge difference not so much in MX. Most riders spend a ton of money making their bike have all the bells and whistles like the pros and a large number of them go slower than they would on a stock bike. Even as a local pro myself the only reason I had my bike ported was for the start, having a fast bike most likely made my average lap times slower but the easiest way to pass 39 riders is to get the hole shot! Most riders that are starting out would get way more for there money buying a used bike and spending their money on a riding school. 

1
zookrider62!
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9/8/2023 10:54am
Mit12 wrote:
With what you are saying you are giving your self an excuse as to why you cant do it. I beat a lot of guys that...

With what you are saying you are giving your self an excuse as to why you cant do it. I beat a lot of guys that did not have to work and rode every day. Would I have been faster if I did not have to work and pay my own way? Probably yes, but it can be done. I raced in the early 80s. I gave up everything to race, no dating, no school functions nothing! The question is would you? I spent every penny I made to go racing. It is a huge sacrifice but it can be done. I was not entitled to anything nor should anyone now days, but we live in a different world. If you want it bad enough you can make it the pro level but If you are like me my results would not allow me to get enough support to quit working. Reality sucks. 

Im slow, always have been, always will be, im fine with that. My initial post was most people given every advantage could make to it b/local...

Im slow, always have been, always will be, im fine with that. My initial post was most people given every advantage could make to it b/local pro, I don't consider myself in that group. I'm pretty confident that I would always be terrible, no matter what the circumstances are.

 

But you said everyone starts out with the same opportunity, which is just categorically false.

Mit12 wrote:
I get your thinking although we have a difference of opinion I would say that in MX having everything available will not ensure that the average...

I get your thinking although we have a difference of opinion I would say that in MX having everything available will not ensure that the average person can make it to the pro level. In car racing equipment makes a huge difference not so much in MX. Most riders spend a ton of money making their bike have all the bells and whistles like the pros and a large number of them go slower than they would on a stock bike. Even as a local pro myself the only reason I had my bike ported was for the start, having a fast bike most likely made my average lap times slower but the easiest way to pass 39 riders is to get the hole shot! Most riders that are starting out would get way more for there money buying a used bike and spending their money on a riding school. 

The riding school is the biggest aspect to me. I agree you can mod out your bike until your wallet is empty and it wont make a difference. But ive seen people go from complete squid to respectable with just a handful of riding schools. 

 

And that's more so where I lean with giving someone every advantage can get them to B/Local Pro. Give little Johhny a great coach and unlimited seat time, and he will be faster than little Billy who rides once a week with pops giving him pointers - considering all other things equal, natural athleticism, same general speed at the beginning of their "careers"

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