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Interesting video with the popularity of e-bikes.
mx related when you have a Stark varg,sur-ron,and your kid’s electric scooters in your shop all on charge. Something to ponder…
Queue up Varg-boy in 3.....2.....1............
Do we run this same risk having the Lithium batteries on our dirt bikes hooked up to battery tenders in the garage?
I believe this will be even more relevant in the future: ( couple years from now..) my stark varg is not holding a charge like it used to ..wtf! $8k for a stark battery!!! Oh look I can get one off eBay for $3k order up. So yeah..
Not really Varg related anymore than it is KTM ,or Honda , etc related. Cheap unregulated batteries on cheaply made and abused scooters can catch anything on fire . It is good to remember that Your cell phone ,cordless tools, battery for the electric start on You gas powered MX bike, etc. can all catch fire when damaged or not charged properly. I really think that people should learn what to look for ,and understand the risk of using a battery after it shows signs of issues. And that hey respect the danger like people do with gas and flammable liquids.
It was nice to get some context for why there are giant piles of electric scooters stacked up in China. Other than avoiding cheap no name lithium batteries, Don't buy one, and Run if You see one on fire, it was not much of a Safety video. A video showing what to watch for and how to deal with a possible damaged battery would be more helpful. And could include some big scary fires in it too.
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a starter battery has a miniscule amount of potential energy compared to an e-bike battery pack; not to say bad things can't happen, but I would be way more worried about having an EV parked in my garage than my electric start dirt bike...
Have you seen 8v 5000mah lithium rc packs go up? Not great next to a plastic gas tank and rubber full line.
Video is amusing but I'm not watching it all.
What is the fire potential of gasoline? Safety precautions are required.
Lithium batteries just require different safety precautions.
Lol...yeah, great point! I store my RC battery packs in a locking cash box for that very reason. Lithium batteries can be very, very sketchy...
And I think that is a big part of why the scooters and hoverboards start so many fires. People not respecting the danger along with them being over stressed and abused. I would bet that a battery for an RC car is going to catch fire more often than most EV's while being charged in your garage. It doesn't matter what starts the fire. Just that there is a fire that starts.
I lost my garage, gas powered truck, (3) 450's and lots of other stuff from a fire that started by a cigarette in a pile of dry leaves, by an area of the building that had no electricity. No lithium batteries in the building, and close enough to the fire station that they could see the fire from the station. The fire started and was out in under an hour and 45 minutes. It's the smaller things that people do not think are a danger that are most likely going to cause the fires. If You respect the possibility of the danger, and know what to look for, You can avoid a lot of fires that could be started by a battery.
I don't leave chargers or battery tenders connected to Li batteries overnight. I charge them when I'm around.
You could use one of those Christmas light timers to cut the power to the charger after a couple hours.
Cant really compare RC car LiPo battery to the LiFe battery in your 450.
Or maybe they are basically the same, I really have no idea.
Why would you buy a new Stark battery pack, do you buy a new engine when the piston wears, or do you take it apart and replace the piston?
Pull the battery pack apart and replace with the same battery cells...
Didn't Forrest Butler's Rocky Mountain semi catch on fire at one of the races a few years ago from charging the batteries for the bikes?
I was using the stark,could be Alta , or any other e bike as an example ( that’s cool that you can replace individual cells, although may lead to new and old cells mixed? Another topic..)point is replacement batteries seem to be unregulated as video suggests.
The same as unregulated ICE engine parts that can cause catastrophic failure on an ICE vehicle, manufacturers never recall ICE vehicles for fire risks...
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hyundai-kia-recall-91000-us-vehicles-over-fire-risks-urge-owners-park-outside-2023-08-03/
and ICE vehicle fires never occur...
The risk of electric vehicle fires is 60 times lower than ICE vehicle fires
It's not as straight forward as changing the batteries in your TV remote. Cutting the welded bus from battery to battery and replacing it and rewelding requires KSA's, tools, and materials alot of people don't have. A bit like saying you can just bore your cylinder at home to refresh your engine.
So you don't need tools or skills to disassemble an ICE engine?
It's just a different set of tools and skills.
You are right. He was talking about potential energy in the pack, an rc pack is a comparable Wh capacity, but they are different batteries and applications.
Pit Row
You do, but again it's not a 1:1 comparison. How many guys here replace the cells in their drill batteries vs buy a new one even though they are expensive.
Alot of guys will do a top end but send the engine out if the cases need split and bottom end re-built.
In the future battery rebuilds and rebuilders should be more common so tools and skills should get more widely available.
A drill battery is what $250-$300 on the very high end? And a Varg battery is $7000 right now. Drill batteries have a handful of cells compared to the many more in a Varg. I do think that most people will not be replacing cells themselves, at least at first. But it still should be less expensive to have a shop replace the bad cells than do a full battery in most cases.
Having only built and repaired batteries for RC cars , I do not know exactly how replacing cells will be with a Varg. But the basic concept is the same. And it is pretty simple after you take the time to learn about it and have the tools needed.
And with less physical stuff needing to be done to electric Motorcycles , I would hope that Dealer's train their techs on rebuilding batteries. It should be a higher margin repair , given the cost of battery cells . and high cost of a new replacement.
Don't have to worry about that with the good ole RMZ
The average rider is absolutely not opening that pack and swapping cells out, we're talking about 350V+ of nominal voltage that can kill you if you touch the wrong areas. These packs are not designed to be rebuilt by someone in their garage, all if takes is dropping a screw driver during disassembly and you're going to have a hell of a fire on your hands. I'm a big proponent of E-bikes but this narrative that rebuilding your battery is similar to changing a top end needs to end immediately, that's not even remotely the case and can be incredibly dangerous.
When remote reservoir shocks were first introduced, riders did not rebuilt them, they contained high pressure nitrogen and were considered dangerous, capable of killing you. Now many riders rebuild their own shocks, while some send them out to a specialist shop.
The same will happen with battery packs, some riders will rebuild their own, some riders will send them out to a specialist shop, some riders will buy a new battery pack.
Do you guys work on the wiring in your home?
Yes, always test before you touch, but what you can safety and legal do depends on your qualifications, experience, local laws and regulations.
Do you pump your own gas? I've heard its a flammable liquid, and even explosive when mixed with the right amount of air! There are safe ways and unsafe ways to do most things..
Replacing a battery pack's cells is probably not a job for Billy-Bob, at least not until he has acquired the appropriate knowledge, skills and tools.
Again, that’s not even remotely close to the same thing, I’ve done plenty of shocks and never had a concern about my entire house burning down or killing myself. I know of a guy who was very knowledgeable about batteries and had a business building packs, but accidentally dropped a metal plate across the cells of a pack he was making. The end result was half of his house burned down and him having severe burns from the battery igniting immediately, he very easily could have died. Trying to make this sound like it’s a run of the mill maintenance job or achievable by the average person in their garage is absolutely insane, the average rider has no business tearing into one of these packs to rebuild them. This isn’t a small pack for an electric scooter, this is a 350V+ pack with extremely tight manufacturing tolerances and precision assembly to ensure it is air tight, not something people need to be opening up in their garage.
I’m very committed to E-bikes at this point but we need to be realistic and realize that this is going to be a significant challenge for owners down the road. Luckily these packs last long enough that most riders will never need to replace them or repair them, but if they do it’s not going to be something people are doing in their garage while drinking beer.
I see your point, a lot of people are electrically illiterate, including some people who claim they are knowledgeable.
You have mentioned a number of times that the battery packs are 350V+, inferring this voltage is dangerous, high voltage is not dangerous...
high current is dangerous, if the battery cells are discharged they won't deliver any significant current.
Come on--a little objectivity! It is normal that statistics "say" that the electric is the one that ignites the least (statistically speaking). But how many billions of cars are there that run on gasoline? While electric we are talking about little stuff.
However, when a gasoline car catches fire, in 99% of cases the car is at least 10 to 15 years old and it is the pipe in the engine compartment that connects the carburetor or injector (porous and drips) check & change and you are safe.
Other times it is something in the 'electrical system, often due to work not done properly.
These are never new cars.
Exactly! "Old" or modified.... not-new vehicles/cars that catch fire as you recharge them.
Let's hope for the best. I can live with it if they avoid loading them in underground garages of buildings, or in ships and ferries while sailing.
At home let them do what they want if the neighbors are safe
Because.... if they burn ist not so easy like by gas
You can argue semantics all you want, but the bottom line is one slip or dropped tool and you can have a massive chemical fire on your hands, this isn’t a joke. I’m not saying it can’t be done by a competent person, but equating this to doing a top end is dangerously misleading, end of story.
Statistically speaking the number were per 100k sales...
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