Current interest rates on new bikes

wrc777
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Greenwood, IN US
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8/24/2023 6:06am
TalinH112 wrote:

Any Austrian ‘23 is pretty cheap right now, just got my ‘23 KTM 450 XC for 10k OTD. 

Yeah I kinda thought so too.  That's why I'm still shopping.

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200. ...

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200.  But when I got his itemized quote, I realized he was quoting me on a CR 450R-S, a bike with an MSRP of $8799.  That makes all the extra crap $1400 more.  Man, that seems like a bit much.  I get it that Texas tax will be about $800, but holy geez.  That seems like alot of extra add-on fees.  Anybody know of a dealer between DFW and Shreveport that knows about racing dirt bikes and isn't just a stupid SxS dealer?  BTW, this was at Broadway Powersports in Tyler, TX.  I got one more quote at H&W in Marshall that was for $10,800.  Sorry guys.  I hate fees.  Rant over. 

If you can find a 2023 KX450 they should be around $7k otd maybe less if you really shop around. There is a $2500 rebate from Kawi.

1
8tensolutions
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Salt Lake City, UT US
8/24/2023 7:06am
TalinH112 wrote:

Any Austrian ‘23 is pretty cheap right now, just got my ‘23 KTM 450 XC for 10k OTD. 

Yeah I kinda thought so too.  That's why I'm still shopping.

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200. ...

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200.  But when I got his itemized quote, I realized he was quoting me on a CR 450R-S, a bike with an MSRP of $8799.  That makes all the extra crap $1400 more.  Man, that seems like a bit much.  I get it that Texas tax will be about $800, but holy geez.  That seems like alot of extra add-on fees.  Anybody know of a dealer between DFW and Shreveport that knows about racing dirt bikes and isn't just a stupid SxS dealer?  BTW, this was at Broadway Powersports in Tyler, TX.  I got one more quote at H&W in Marshall that was for $10,800.  Sorry guys.  I hate fees.  Rant over. 

The "fees" don't matter, it is the total price that does.  Decide what bike you want and go to the dealer ready to buy and negotiate your best deal.  Also know there is very little markup in a bike for the dealer and taxes are what they are.  The CRF is $9699 with a $400 destination and $200 freight charge to the dealer so a total of $10,299.  They have 4.99% financing currently.  In person, offer to buy the bike at $10K OTD and you will finance it with Honda. The dealer makes $ on financing too, so even if you don't need to, just pay it off in a month.   Every dealer deals with phone calls all day with people wanting pricing and never showing up, so being there in person and also buying accessories, oil, etc all at the same time helps you.  Why would a dealer want to do all the paperwork, assemble a bike, and go through the rest of the work to make basically nothing.  It is OK for a dealer to make money.

4
byke
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Auburn, CA US
8/24/2023 9:10am

Yeah I kinda thought so too.  That's why I'm still shopping.

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200. ...

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200.  But when I got his itemized quote, I realized he was quoting me on a CR 450R-S, a bike with an MSRP of $8799.  That makes all the extra crap $1400 more.  Man, that seems like a bit much.  I get it that Texas tax will be about $800, but holy geez.  That seems like alot of extra add-on fees.  Anybody know of a dealer between DFW and Shreveport that knows about racing dirt bikes and isn't just a stupid SxS dealer?  BTW, this was at Broadway Powersports in Tyler, TX.  I got one more quote at H&W in Marshall that was for $10,800.  Sorry guys.  I hate fees.  Rant over. 

wrc777 wrote:
If you can find a 2023 KX450 they should be around $7k otd maybe less if you really shop around. There is a $2500 rebate from...

If you can find a 2023 KX450 they should be around $7k otd maybe less if you really shop around. There is a $2500 rebate from Kawi.

I couldn't believe it when I came across an ad on CL the other day...

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/mcd/d/petaluma-kawasaki-kx450-kx-450f-…

8/24/2023 9:36am

Yeah I kinda thought so too.  That's why I'm still shopping.

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200. ...

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200.  But when I got his itemized quote, I realized he was quoting me on a CR 450R-S, a bike with an MSRP of $8799.  That makes all the extra crap $1400 more.  Man, that seems like a bit much.  I get it that Texas tax will be about $800, but holy geez.  That seems like alot of extra add-on fees.  Anybody know of a dealer between DFW and Shreveport that knows about racing dirt bikes and isn't just a stupid SxS dealer?  BTW, this was at Broadway Powersports in Tyler, TX.  I got one more quote at H&W in Marshall that was for $10,800.  Sorry guys.  I hate fees.  Rant over. 

The "fees" don't matter, it is the total price that does.  Decide what bike you want and go to the dealer ready to buy and negotiate...

The "fees" don't matter, it is the total price that does.  Decide what bike you want and go to the dealer ready to buy and negotiate your best deal.  Also know there is very little markup in a bike for the dealer and taxes are what they are.  The CRF is $9699 with a $400 destination and $200 freight charge to the dealer so a total of $10,299.  They have 4.99% financing currently.  In person, offer to buy the bike at $10K OTD and you will finance it with Honda. The dealer makes $ on financing too, so even if you don't need to, just pay it off in a month.   Every dealer deals with phone calls all day with people wanting pricing and never showing up, so being there in person and also buying accessories, oil, etc all at the same time helps you.  Why would a dealer want to do all the paperwork, assemble a bike, and go through the rest of the work to make basically nothing.  It is OK for a dealer to make money.

I agree with you.  I will probably finance and pay off early like you said. 

The Shop

wrc777
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3196
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Location
Greenwood, IN US
Fantasy
8/24/2023 9:38am
I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200. ...

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200.  But when I got his itemized quote, I realized he was quoting me on a CR 450R-S, a bike with an MSRP of $8799.  That makes all the extra crap $1400 more.  Man, that seems like a bit much.  I get it that Texas tax will be about $800, but holy geez.  That seems like alot of extra add-on fees.  Anybody know of a dealer between DFW and Shreveport that knows about racing dirt bikes and isn't just a stupid SxS dealer?  BTW, this was at Broadway Powersports in Tyler, TX.  I got one more quote at H&W in Marshall that was for $10,800.  Sorry guys.  I hate fees.  Rant over. 

wrc777 wrote:
If you can find a 2023 KX450 they should be around $7k otd maybe less if you really shop around. There is a $2500 rebate from...

If you can find a 2023 KX450 they should be around $7k otd maybe less if you really shop around. There is a $2500 rebate from Kawi.

byke wrote:

I couldn't believe it when I came across an ad on CL the other day...

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/mcd/d/petaluma-kawasaki-kx450-kx-450f-…

Arguably the best 450 for the average rider. The pricing makes it a no brainer.

8/24/2023 9:41am
I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200. ...

I finally got a dealer to send me a quote on an CR 450R.  I was happy because he told me the OTD price was $10,200.  But when I got his itemized quote, I realized he was quoting me on a CR 450R-S, a bike with an MSRP of $8799.  That makes all the extra crap $1400 more.  Man, that seems like a bit much.  I get it that Texas tax will be about $800, but holy geez.  That seems like alot of extra add-on fees.  Anybody know of a dealer between DFW and Shreveport that knows about racing dirt bikes and isn't just a stupid SxS dealer?  BTW, this was at Broadway Powersports in Tyler, TX.  I got one more quote at H&W in Marshall that was for $10,800.  Sorry guys.  I hate fees.  Rant over. 

wrc777 wrote:
If you can find a 2023 KX450 they should be around $7k otd maybe less if you really shop around. There is a $2500 rebate from...

If you can find a 2023 KX450 they should be around $7k otd maybe less if you really shop around. There is a $2500 rebate from Kawi.

byke wrote:

I couldn't believe it when I came across an ad on CL the other day...

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/mcd/d/petaluma-kawasaki-kx450-kx-450f-…

That's an amazing deal.  I wish I liked green.

1
8/24/2023 7:32pm

I found a dealer with $1100 off MSRP.   Called and asked for an OTD price.  My local Kawi dealer has a KX for $8654 OTD.  I like the Honda and am willing to pay a little extra but...Screenshot 20230824-212343~2

mxracer666
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NE Iowa, IA US
8/24/2023 7:40pm
I found a dealer with $1100 off MSRP.   Called and asked for an OTD price.  My local Kawi dealer has a KX for $8654 OTD.  I...

I found a dealer with $1100 off MSRP.   Called and asked for an OTD price.  My local Kawi dealer has a KX for $8654 OTD.  I like the Honda and am willing to pay a little extra but...Screenshot 20230824-212343~2

That's the "bend over" price!

2
BigRedMachine
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Grants Pass, OR US
8/24/2023 8:00pm
Looking at something new.  Just wondering what the current interest rates are for new bikes from different mfgs with a high to excellent credit score? P.S...

Looking at something new.  Just wondering what the current interest rates are for new bikes from different mfgs with a high to excellent credit score?

P.S. I'd prefer for this to not devolve into a discussion about how borrowing money is evil.

Got my last two bikes at 0.00% interest rate, but that's because I loaned the money to myself and paid cash. 

1
7
8tensolutions
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Salt Lake City, UT US
8/24/2023 8:49pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2023 6:18am
I found a dealer with $1100 off MSRP.   Called and asked for an OTD price.  My local Kawi dealer has a KX for $8654 OTD.  I...

I found a dealer with $1100 off MSRP.   Called and asked for an OTD price.  My local Kawi dealer has a KX for $8654 OTD.  I like the Honda and am willing to pay a little extra but...Screenshot 20230824-212343~2

mxracer666 wrote:

That's the "bend over" price!

Not at all, just have them remove the "lifetime battery" and it's fine.  The destination and assembly are Honda charges, they are just marking them up slightly.  Call them back and have them remove the battery and match the charges on Honda's website for Destination and Assembly.  Done.

Have the Kawi dealer send you the same breakdown of their OTD price.  Honda Build quality is about 50% better than Kawi too.

 

2
8/25/2023 5:39am
Not at all, just have them remove the "lifetime battery" and it's fine.  The destination and assembly are Honda charges, they are just marking them up...

Not at all, just have them remove the "lifetime battery" and it's fine.  The destination and assembly are Honda charges, they are just marking them up slightly.  Call them back and have them remove the battery and match the charges on Honda's website for Destination and Assembly.  Done.

Have the Kawi dealer send you the same breakdown of their OTD price.  Honda Build quality is about 50% better than Kawi too.

 

Easy there partner.  We're all just shooting the shit. 

My situation isn't very normal.  I haven't purchased a new bike since 2009 and never purchased a four stroke MX bike.  I'm just looking for some real world advice from people who've been through the process more than I. 

Carry on.

8tensolutions
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Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
8/25/2023 6:17am
Not at all, just have them remove the "lifetime battery" and it's fine.  The destination and assembly are Honda charges, they are just marking them up...

Not at all, just have them remove the "lifetime battery" and it's fine.  The destination and assembly are Honda charges, they are just marking them up slightly.  Call them back and have them remove the battery and match the charges on Honda's website for Destination and Assembly.  Done.

Have the Kawi dealer send you the same breakdown of their OTD price.  Honda Build quality is about 50% better than Kawi too.

 

Easy there partner.  We're all just shooting the shit.  My situation isn't very normal.  I haven't purchased a new bike since 2009 and never purchased a...

Easy there partner.  We're all just shooting the shit. 

My situation isn't very normal.  I haven't purchased a new bike since 2009 and never purchased a four stroke MX bike.  I'm just looking for some real world advice from people who've been through the process more than I. 

Carry on.

My bad.  Sorry about that.  I am happy to help.  

wrc777
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8/25/2023 6:23am

$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars and putting oil (maybe) on the air filter.

8/25/2023 8:14am
wrc777 wrote:
$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars...

$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars and putting oil (maybe) on the air filter.

I agree. 

Just got off the phone with him and now he's at $9800.  Now we're in better territory for my finances.   Smile

lumpy790
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York, SC US
8/25/2023 8:36am
wrc777 wrote:
$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars...

$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars and putting oil (maybe) on the air filter.

The only time you will see Trained mechanics building bikes is to keep up with Christmas rush.

In my experience Shops typically have 1 or more depending on shop size full time setup guys. 

At Christmas… Been there done that.

wrc777
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8/25/2023 11:07am
wrc777 wrote:
$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars...

$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars and putting oil (maybe) on the air filter.

lumpy790 wrote:
The only time you will see Trained mechanics building bikes is to keep up with Christmas rush. In my experience Shops typically have 1 or more...

The only time you will see Trained mechanics building bikes is to keep up with Christmas rush.

In my experience Shops typically have 1 or more depending on shop size full time setup guys. 

At Christmas… Been there done that.

Exactly. Charging $400 to have a $10/hr shop kid put handlebars on a bike and throw away the crate is a bit much. 

2
8/25/2023 12:14pm

Made the deal for $9800 OTD with 5.99% through Honda at 36 months.  Payments are supposed to be $298/month.  Gonna pick up tomorrow.  We'll see how it goes. 

4
yz133rider
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Avondale, PA US
8/25/2023 3:17pm
Made the deal for $9800 OTD with 5.99% through Honda at 36 months.  Payments are supposed to be $298/month.  Gonna pick up tomorrow.  We'll see how...

Made the deal for $9800 OTD with 5.99% through Honda at 36 months.  Payments are supposed to be $298/month.  Gonna pick up tomorrow.  We'll see how it goes. 

Throw extra at loan in the beginning and you’ll save so much it’ll negate any issues you have with the rate you know.

lumpy790
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York, SC US
8/25/2023 5:50pm
wrc777 wrote:
$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars...

$488 for PDI is about 4 hours of labor (or more) at shop rate for a trained mechanic. That seems excessive for bolting on the handlebars and putting oil (maybe) on the air filter.

lumpy790 wrote:
The only time you will see Trained mechanics building bikes is to keep up with Christmas rush. In my experience Shops typically have 1 or more...

The only time you will see Trained mechanics building bikes is to keep up with Christmas rush.

In my experience Shops typically have 1 or more depending on shop size full time setup guys. 

At Christmas… Been there done that.

wrc777 wrote:

Exactly. Charging $400 to have a $10/hr shop kid put handlebars on a bike and throw away the crate is a bit much. 

$10 / hour WoohooWoohooWoohoo 

wrc777
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8/25/2023 6:19pm
lumpy790 wrote:
The only time you will see Trained mechanics building bikes is to keep up with Christmas rush. In my experience Shops typically have 1 or more...

The only time you will see Trained mechanics building bikes is to keep up with Christmas rush.

In my experience Shops typically have 1 or more depending on shop size full time setup guys. 

At Christmas… Been there done that.

wrc777 wrote:

Exactly. Charging $400 to have a $10/hr shop kid put handlebars on a bike and throw away the crate is a bit much. 

lumpy790 wrote:
$10 / hour  

$10 / hour WoohooWoohooWoohoo 

Even at $20/hr that is what an extra $20 per bike maybe?

Brad460
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Richfield, WI US
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8/25/2023 6:46pm
Made the deal for $9800 OTD with 5.99% through Honda at 36 months.  Payments are supposed to be $298/month.  Gonna pick up tomorrow.  We'll see how...

Made the deal for $9800 OTD with 5.99% through Honda at 36 months.  Payments are supposed to be $298/month.  Gonna pick up tomorrow.  We'll see how it goes. 

You can be happy with this deal…post pics after you pick it up! 

Spoonguy
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Mc Kean, PA US
8/25/2023 7:12pm

Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after it boys, good job. We are sheep led to slaughter, always were, always will be. Keep being prey to the powers that use you. You are prey to the power brokers if you finance your toys. Flame on. Justify your weakness. Empower your users. They will take your money plus a percentage on your depreciating purchase. That's what makes them smart and strong and you broke, weak and stupid. "Enjoy it now you can afford it", good lord. Broke dumb, homeless, sobs.....Enjoy living in mom's basement, or bitching about your child support, or property taxes. Just don't finance toys!! It is last on the list ultimately  

11
seth505
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SD, CA US
8/25/2023 7:28pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after...

Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after it boys, good job. We are sheep led to slaughter, always were, always will be. Keep being prey to the powers that use you. You are prey to the power brokers if you finance your toys. Flame on. Justify your weakness. Empower your users. They will take your money plus a percentage on your depreciating purchase. That's what makes them smart and strong and you broke, weak and stupid. "Enjoy it now you can afford it", good lord. Broke dumb, homeless, sobs.....Enjoy living in mom's basement, or bitching about your child support, or property taxes. Just don't finance toys!! It is last on the list ultimately  

Stfu

6
Brad460
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Richfield, WI US
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8/25/2023 8:04pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after...

Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after it boys, good job. We are sheep led to slaughter, always were, always will be. Keep being prey to the powers that use you. You are prey to the power brokers if you finance your toys. Flame on. Justify your weakness. Empower your users. They will take your money plus a percentage on your depreciating purchase. That's what makes them smart and strong and you broke, weak and stupid. "Enjoy it now you can afford it", good lord. Broke dumb, homeless, sobs.....Enjoy living in mom's basement, or bitching about your child support, or property taxes. Just don't finance toys!! It is last on the list ultimately  

Just shut up 

2
Hcallz5
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UT US
8/25/2023 8:23pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after...

Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after it boys, good job. We are sheep led to slaughter, always were, always will be. Keep being prey to the powers that use you. You are prey to the power brokers if you finance your toys. Flame on. Justify your weakness. Empower your users. They will take your money plus a percentage on your depreciating purchase. That's what makes them smart and strong and you broke, weak and stupid. "Enjoy it now you can afford it", good lord. Broke dumb, homeless, sobs.....Enjoy living in mom's basement, or bitching about your child support, or property taxes. Just don't finance toys!! It is last on the list ultimately  

Tell me you mortgage is $400 without telling me your mortgage is $400

MotoMan12345
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Alpine, UT US
8/25/2023 9:19pm

I dont finance but nothing wrong with it. If people couldn’t finance half the gates In the 250/450 class would be empty & a shit ton of people wouldn’t be riding. 

1
TalinH112
Posts
1424
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Location
Belgrade, MT US
8/25/2023 9:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2023 4:22am

Want a bike you can’t afford? Go sign up for a semester at your local Community College, take out roughly 186,472 dollars in student loans. Get yourself a Rivian and a new Triumph. Don’t make any payments on your school loans, let us pay for you! Easy as that partner, you enjoy yourself cause you’ve earned it! Hahaha 

7
4
8/27/2023 10:52am
Spoonguy wrote:
Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after...

Good grief, house prices too high, and dirt bike financing availability and rates affordable. All on the same site, no wonder they are winning. Keep after it boys, good job. We are sheep led to slaughter, always were, always will be. Keep being prey to the powers that use you. You are prey to the power brokers if you finance your toys. Flame on. Justify your weakness. Empower your users. They will take your money plus a percentage on your depreciating purchase. That's what makes them smart and strong and you broke, weak and stupid. "Enjoy it now you can afford it", good lord. Broke dumb, homeless, sobs.....Enjoy living in mom's basement, or bitching about your child support, or property taxes. Just don't finance toys!! It is last on the list ultimately  

tumblr lyhh238jSL1r4gei2o6 400

1
8/27/2023 10:55am
Made the deal for $9800 OTD with 5.99% through Honda at 36 months.  Payments are supposed to be $298/month.  Gonna pick up tomorrow.  We'll see how...

Made the deal for $9800 OTD with 5.99% through Honda at 36 months.  Payments are supposed to be $298/month.  Gonna pick up tomorrow.  We'll see how it goes. 

Brad460 wrote:

You can be happy with this deal…post pics after you pick it up! 

Here it is.  Will give details of transaction later.  Overall, decent experience though.  Bike is rad though.

 

IMG 20230826 185353 HDRimage-20230827125433-1image-20230827125457-2

8
8/28/2023 7:21am
I found a dealer with $1100 off MSRP.   Called and asked for an OTD price.  My local Kawi dealer has a KX for $8654 OTD.  I...

I found a dealer with $1100 off MSRP.   Called and asked for an OTD price.  My local Kawi dealer has a KX for $8654 OTD.  I like the Honda and am willing to pay a little extra but...Screenshot 20230824-212343~2

So, here's the story. 

My job makes it difficult to take phone calls during normal business hours.  So, most of the dealing took place by email and text.  Once I got the above quote from the dealer, I texted the salesman and said that OTD price wasn't in my budget.  I said I could do $9500.  He countered at $9800.  I said that was fine.  I told him I wanted to finance and he took my info.  He came back a few hours later with an approval for 4.99% with Honda at 36 months with zero down.  Smoking deal, so said I would be there the next day. 

Couple hour drive to the dealer from my home so I called him when I left the next day and he said he'd have everything ready when I arrived.  Walk in at 1:45 pm and am greeted by the motorcycle shop equivalent of a Walmart greeter.  Tell him I there to sign papers and pick up the bike.  He rushes off to find my salesman.  Salesman finds me ten minutes later and informs me my bike won't be ready for another little bit.  Says they're checking the fluids in it. 

Twenty minutes later the low level finance manager finds me and brings me to her "table" in the middle of the sales floor.  "No, I don't want the service plan or lifetime battery replacement or gap insurance."  She takes no fairly easily and leaves.  Been there an hour so far.  Ten minutes later the middle level finance manager finds me and asks again.  No thanks I politely decline.  Ten minutes later he comes back and asks again.  I politely decline again.  45 minutes later haven't seen the bike yet and they're still "drawing up the papers."

Been there two hours now and getting a bit twitchy since I have a two hour drive home.  I finally catch a guy wearing a different colored shirt from the salespeople and explain I really need to be going.  He says no problem.  5 minutes later he shows up with the papers and in two minutes the bike is mine.  He runs off to find the original salesman who has to give me the walkaround and show me where the clutch lever is.  We roll from the parking lot 2.5 hours after arriving. 

Can't say I was impressed with the experience.  I know they didn't know me from Adam, but the upsell process and obvious making we wait so I'll wander around and potentially buy more stuff was painfully obvious.  But the price was pretty good, so maybe it was worth it.

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