Loretta's, Futures VS EMX/MX2

decano51
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Not sure if its just myself, but feel like Loretta's hasn't had much hype over the past year or so?

I'm aware of the big presence Deegan has had the past few years. But in the same way, the past year or so, i feel like we hear more about the EMX and younger MX2 class riders in Europe more then the up and coming riders in the US?

Do you think we will ever see a big change in the Amateur system within the states with the whole MX/SX future series?

Following the mxgp the past few years and I've noticed how young and fast these younger kids are developing. The way these Euro riders are moving up within the emx class and battling in the MX2 class in Europe at such a younger age seems like such a great system. These gate drops, longer race formats and managing racers for championships just seems like a better adjustment moving up the ranks.

Loretta's being a once a year event, short races on a smaller track with so many different classes for the 1 age bracket & bike... seems slightly outrages we then expect these kids to step up and turn Pro and deliver with high expectations.

Seems like injuries have increased more with young kids and prospects trying to make the transition are struggling.

The US already produces so much talent and great tracks with great series. But it baffles me the Futures isn't a bigger event or more riders don't attend to race them? Is there a reason?

Do we ever see a EMX style class in Pro AMA with MX.

 

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7/31/2023 7:13pm

Europe definitely has a better amateur progression process than the states. I think the USA is trying to fix some of that but it’s going to take time. 
 

I don’t think it’s fair to compare emx to Loretta’s, as you said, it’s just one race. Mx sports needs to fix it via more opportunities than just 6 big races a year for amateur’s. They are trying, just gonna take some time. 

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yak651
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The main thing MXGP program has is it’s happening multiple times during the year at the same venue all the teams are at. US amateur program happens once (maybe 3-4 time if you want to count freestone, mini Os  etc) and are attended by the team support divisions. Which one do you think would pump out more prepared riders??

yak651
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7/31/2023 7:15pm
decano51 wrote:
Not sure if its just myself, but feel like Loretta's hasn't had much hype over the past year or so? I'm aware of the big presence...

Not sure if its just myself, but feel like Loretta's hasn't had much hype over the past year or so?

I'm aware of the big presence Deegan has had the past few years. But in the same way, the past year or so, i feel like we hear more about the EMX and younger MX2 class riders in Europe more then the up and coming riders in the US?

Do you think we will ever see a big change in the Amateur system within the states with the whole MX/SX future series?

Following the mxgp the past few years and I've noticed how young and fast these younger kids are developing. The way these Euro riders are moving up within the emx class and battling in the MX2 class in Europe at such a younger age seems like such a great system. These gate drops, longer race formats and managing racers for championships just seems like a better adjustment moving up the ranks.

Loretta's being a once a year event, short races on a smaller track with so many different classes for the 1 age bracket & bike... seems slightly outrages we then expect these kids to step up and turn Pro and deliver with high expectations.

Seems like injuries have increased more with young kids and prospects trying to make the transition are struggling.

The US already produces so much talent and great tracks with great series. But it baffles me the Futures isn't a bigger event or more riders don't attend to race them? Is there a reason?

Do we ever see a EMX style class in Pro AMA with MX.

 

It is strange that the futures is so lightly attended. You would think the teams would put a greater emphasis on it and require their riders to attend. Maybe they don’t see the value as the track conditions are so different than LL and figure it doesn’t help their riders?

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7/31/2023 7:25pm

The FIM is controlled by regional motorcycling associations, who are controlled by member motorcycling clubs (riders!), the AMA is controlled by its board of directors, who are the manufacturers.

Their respective championships reflect this, FIM EMX is focused on rider development, Loretta's AMA Amateur nationals is focused on extracting money from riders.

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JnDubZ
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7/31/2023 8:06pm

I guess you could say that's what the Combines are, but they are nowhere near the level that the EMX races are at. It would be really cool to see the AMA put a massive effort into getting something going like the EMX series. Also, I agree massively that it seems the up and comers in the US are getting injured more and more. Maybe they can take it a bit easier if there is something like the EMX over here. 

decano51
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7/31/2023 9:16pm
JnDubZ wrote:
I guess you could say that's what the Combines are, but they are nowhere near the level that the EMX races are at. It would be...

I guess you could say that's what the Combines are, but they are nowhere near the level that the EMX races are at. It would be really cool to see the AMA put a massive effort into getting something going like the EMX series. Also, I agree massively that it seems the up and comers in the US are getting injured more and more. Maybe they can take it a bit easier if there is something like the EMX over here. 

I think EMX does so well because racers aren't thrown straight into the deep end. There racing other kids who are at the same point in their own careers. 

Must be crazy scary for these young Rookies to line up and race against riders who have been battling for a title for years and in their mid/late twenties. 

They go from racing kids still in school, Dominating at Loretta's to racing against some of the worlds best while having to adapt to longer races on larger rougher tracks on faster bikes with bugger all gate drops or experience... And then wonder why so many riders are out injured and ask "how do we make the sport safer?" 

 

its crazy when you step back and over view how these kids are meant to succeed in our sport.

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LungButter
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7/31/2023 9:34pm

Kids stepping up from EMX to MX2 are going into a class with an age limit. 
 

In the US they go straight to racing grown men, JCoop, Hampshire etc. etc. wouldn’t be there to beat up on the kids if we had an age limit like Europe. 
 

Just food for thought. 

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decano51
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7/31/2023 9:48pm
LungButter wrote:
Kids stepping up from EMX to MX2 are going into a class with an age limit.    In the US they go straight to racing grown...

Kids stepping up from EMX to MX2 are going into a class with an age limit. 
 

In the US they go straight to racing grown men, JCoop, Hampshire etc. etc. wouldn’t be there to beat up on the kids if we had an age limit like Europe. 
 

Just food for thought. 

I see your point.. But having an age limit.. do you think its a terrible thing? i mean. the gate seems full in MX2 compared to the open class.

Im on the fence about it.. 

Motofinne
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7/31/2023 11:22pm
LungButter wrote:
Kids stepping up from EMX to MX2 are going into a class with an age limit.    In the US they go straight to racing grown...

Kids stepping up from EMX to MX2 are going into a class with an age limit. 
 

In the US they go straight to racing grown men, JCoop, Hampshire etc. etc. wouldn’t be there to beat up on the kids if we had an age limit like Europe. 
 

Just food for thought. 

Which means the American system and the kids would be in an even bigger need of an EMX style system. Imagine doing all these short races on smaller tracks and a couple of big events all your life and then one day you just line up on the gate with riders that we're just as good or probably better than you as an "amateur" but they have been racing the 250 class for close to 10 years.

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Audie Murphy
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8/1/2023 4:08am
The FIM is controlled by regional motorcycling associations, who are controlled by member motorcycling clubs (riders!), the AMA is controlled by its board of directors, who...

The FIM is controlled by regional motorcycling associations, who are controlled by member motorcycling clubs (riders!), the AMA is controlled by its board of directors, who are the manufacturers.

Their respective championships reflect this, FIM EMX is focused on rider development, Loretta's AMA Amateur nationals is focused on extracting money from riders.

The last part of your statement is very true, If your kid earns their Wonka-golden ticket to the LL's you will probably need to take out a second mortgage on your home to go if you're not loaded. It is one of the most ridiculously expensive "amateur" races you can do for sure. It didn't start out that way though. 

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Original 44
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8/1/2023 6:55am

I definitely don’t know the logistics behind the AMA nationals but for me what I’d love to see a 125 East Coast West Coast class at the National’s. Have them race five nationals each on each coast. Then have an East Coast West Coast shootout at Loretta Lynn’s. Bring the top 20 in points on each coast down to the ranch and have them run 3 moto’s for a Loretta Lynn title. Also have a title for each coast at the end of the nationals. If not the 125 class, maybe 250 Pro-Am class and run it the same way. Anyways, probably just a dream, but how cool would that be.

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Question
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8/1/2023 7:53am
I definitely don’t know the logistics behind the AMA nationals but for me what I’d love to see a 125 East Coast West Coast class at...

I definitely don’t know the logistics behind the AMA nationals but for me what I’d love to see a 125 East Coast West Coast class at the National’s. Have them race five nationals each on each coast. Then have an East Coast West Coast shootout at Loretta Lynn’s. Bring the top 20 in points on each coast down to the ranch and have them run 3 moto’s for a Loretta Lynn title. Also have a title for each coast at the end of the nationals. If not the 125 class, maybe 250 Pro-Am class and run it the same way. Anyways, probably just a dream, but how cool would that be.

I like that idea.

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LungButter
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8/1/2023 9:56am
decano51 wrote:
I see your point.. But having an age limit.. do you think its a terrible thing? i mean. the gate seems full in MX2 compared to...

I see your point.. But having an age limit.. do you think its a terrible thing? i mean. the gate seems full in MX2 compared to the open class.

Im on the fence about it.. 

I was just pointing it out since the original post talked about how the European kids are able to jump into MX2 and have so much success.  To me, it's not really a relevant comparison to the 250 class in America because of the age rule. 

The US 250 class would be much easier for these new kids to jump in and be competitive if we kicked out anyone over 23. 

Hunter Lawerence, JCoop, Hampshire etc. etc. would all be gone if we had the 23 y/o rule.

 

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8/1/2023 10:40am

Which one would develop a better racer?
 

Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same guys on the same lines everyday and racing 7 time a year. 
 

 Or, living out of a motor home, riding different beat tracks on different soil, with different people and racing 20 times a year. 

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LungButter
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8/1/2023 10:44am
UpTiTe wrote:
Which one would develop a better racer?   Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same...

Which one would develop a better racer?
 

Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same guys on the same lines everyday and racing 7 time a year. 
 

 Or, living out of a motor home, riding different beat tracks on different soil, with different people and racing 20 times a year. 

Has there been a "facility kid" yet that went on to win multiple titles?

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ATKpilot99
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8/1/2023 10:48am

I wish we did have and EMX style series here but the one day format makes that  difficult  I would think . If a series like that took place on Sunday would enough fans stick around to make it viable  ?

GrapeApe
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8/1/2023 10:49am
UpTiTe wrote:
Which one would develop a better racer?   Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same...

Which one would develop a better racer?
 

Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same guys on the same lines everyday and racing 7 time a year. 
 

 Or, living out of a motor home, riding different beat tracks on different soil, with different people and racing 20 times a year. 

I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a supermini at LL's exactly 2 years ago

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Bonanza69
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8/1/2023 11:18am
GrapeApe wrote:
I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a...

I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a supermini at LL's exactly 2 years ago

I took some popcorn,let‘s go!Smile

zehn
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8/1/2023 11:25am
UpTiTe wrote:
Which one would develop a better racer?   Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same...

Which one would develop a better racer?
 

Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same guys on the same lines everyday and racing 7 time a year. 
 

 Or, living out of a motor home, riding different beat tracks on different soil, with different people and racing 20 times a year. 

GrapeApe wrote:
I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a...

I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a supermini at LL's exactly 2 years ago

Other than Deegan, what recently turned pro rider is doing well? Certainly not Reynolds or Ryder. Weak comparison

1
8/1/2023 12:32pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Which one would develop a better racer?   Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same...

Which one would develop a better racer?
 

Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same guys on the same lines everyday and racing 7 time a year. 
 

 Or, living out of a motor home, riding different beat tracks on different soil, with different people and racing 20 times a year. 

LungButter wrote:

Has there been a "facility kid" yet that went on to win multiple titles?

None that I know of. 

Pop Shmoke
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8/1/2023 12:33pm

Since both series are working together now to make a single series they should have a motocross futures like they do with sx. Run their motos between the pro motos. 

8/1/2023 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2023 12:44pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Which one would develop a better racer?   Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same...

Which one would develop a better racer?
 

Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same guys on the same lines everyday and racing 7 time a year. 
 

 Or, living out of a motor home, riding different beat tracks on different soil, with different people and racing 20 times a year. 

GrapeApe wrote:
I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a...

I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a supermini at LL's exactly 2 years ago

Not one guy in front of him was at a facility for any length of time, and two graduated from high school.  
 

 

1
GrapeApe
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8/1/2023 1:02pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Which one would develop a better racer?   Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same...

Which one would develop a better racer?
 

Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same guys on the same lines everyday and racing 7 time a year. 
 

 Or, living out of a motor home, riding different beat tracks on different soil, with different people and racing 20 times a year. 

GrapeApe wrote:
I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a...

I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a supermini at LL's exactly 2 years ago

zehn wrote:

Other than Deegan, what recently turned pro rider is doing well? Certainly not Reynolds or Ryder. Weak comparison

Jett hasn't left many crumbs the last couple of years, but Kitchen, Thrasher and Hammaker all have wins, Robertson has been on the podium multiple times, Hymas has a moto podium as a part-time rookie, and Vohland and Ryder D are solid though not spectacular and the book is far from complete on them. Once their predecessors (Hunter, Cooper, Shimoda, RJ) move up that group will be competing for championships along with Deegan.

8/1/2023 1:03pm

You won't see an EMX style development class until there is a regime change. The bu$ine$$ model works great as is. 

1
GrapeApe
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8/1/2023 1:37pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Which one would develop a better racer?   Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same...

Which one would develop a better racer?
 

Let’s see, kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same guys on the same lines everyday and racing 7 time a year. 
 

 Or, living out of a motor home, riding different beat tracks on different soil, with different people and racing 20 times a year. 

GrapeApe wrote:
I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a...

I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a supermini at LL's exactly 2 years ago

UpTiTe wrote:

Not one guy in front of him was at a facility for any length of time, and two graduated from high school.  
 

 

So not "kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same lines everyday and racing 7 times a year"? I agree, I think that's a tired, lazy and incorrect generalization when it comes to US amateurs.

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8/1/2023 3:11pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2023 3:12pm
GrapeApe wrote:
I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a...

I count 6 racers developed in the US currently in front of the 2 time and defending MX2 champion, including a rookie that was racing a supermini at LL's exactly 2 years ago

UpTiTe wrote:

Not one guy in front of him was at a facility for any length of time, and two graduated from high school.  
 

 

GrapeApe wrote:
So not "kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same lines everyday and racing 7 times a year"...

So not "kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same lines everyday and racing 7 times a year"? I agree, I think that's a tired, lazy and incorrect generalization when it comes to US amateurs.

You can think it wrong all you want, but that’s the way it is. 
 

 They ride the same tracks, with the same people, training the same way, everyday, while racing 7 times a year.  Young riders racecraft these days is horrible, they play follow the leader and don’t explore different lines. 
 

 I’m not saying they don’t work hard, they do, some even to hard. I’m am saying that the EMX program is better than ours. 
 

 Once Vialle has our system and tracks figured out, 5 of those riders won’t be in front of him next year.  

3
decano51
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8/1/2023 3:56pm
UpTiTe wrote:

Not one guy in front of him was at a facility for any length of time, and two graduated from high school.  
 

 

GrapeApe wrote:
So not "kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same lines everyday and racing 7 times a year"...

So not "kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same lines everyday and racing 7 times a year"? I agree, I think that's a tired, lazy and incorrect generalization when it comes to US amateurs.

UpTiTe wrote:
You can think it wrong all you want, but that’s the way it is.     They ride the same tracks, with the same people, training the...

You can think it wrong all you want, but that’s the way it is. 
 

 They ride the same tracks, with the same people, training the same way, everyday, while racing 7 times a year.  Young riders racecraft these days is horrible, they play follow the leader and don’t explore different lines. 
 

 I’m not saying they don’t work hard, they do, some even to hard. I’m am saying that the EMX program is better than ours. 
 

 Once Vialle has our system and tracks figured out, 5 of those riders won’t be in front of him next year.  

Isnt the Coenen Brothers going to America in the next year or so as well? 

 

NSP139
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8/1/2023 4:04pm

I remember correctly jet said he was going back to Europe if Honda didn't let him turn pro said our amateur system was not doing him any good

10
decano51
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8/1/2023 4:18pm
NSP139 wrote:
I remember correctly jet said he was going back to Europe if Honda didn't let him turn pro said our amateur system was not doing him...

I remember correctly jet said he was going back to Europe if Honda didn't let him turn pro said our amateur system was not doing him any good

Its true.

Was around the same time this was filmed.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiAjeTdiJzk

8/2/2023 5:59am
GrapeApe wrote:
So not "kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same lines everyday and racing 7 times a year"...

So not "kids living full time at a compound, riding the same groomed tracks everyday, following the same lines everyday and racing 7 times a year"? I agree, I think that's a tired, lazy and incorrect generalization when it comes to US amateurs.

UpTiTe wrote:
You can think it wrong all you want, but that’s the way it is.     They ride the same tracks, with the same people, training the...

You can think it wrong all you want, but that’s the way it is. 
 

 They ride the same tracks, with the same people, training the same way, everyday, while racing 7 times a year.  Young riders racecraft these days is horrible, they play follow the leader and don’t explore different lines. 
 

 I’m not saying they don’t work hard, they do, some even to hard. I’m am saying that the EMX program is better than ours. 
 

 Once Vialle has our system and tracks figured out, 5 of those riders won’t be in front of him next year.  

decano51 wrote:

Isnt the Coenen Brothers going to America in the next year or so as well? 

 

Yes, I believe 2025.  

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