First rider to "exploit" amatuer rules?

Seems over the last decade or so riders have done the Amatuer/Pro/Amatuer program. Is this a new rule? Has it always been there and someone found the loophole? Just trying to see who was the first to do it. 

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TDeath21
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7/30/2023 7:47am

It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro debut for the final rounds of MX. 

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B Gotti
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7/30/2023 7:57am

Happenend the 80's & 90's as well. 

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7/30/2023 9:51am
B Gotti wrote:

Happenend the 80's & 90's as well. 

Wow didnt know it's been around that long. Having amatuer status can the riders collect purse money if they win a race? 

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JustMX
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7/30/2023 10:04am

Let's face it.

Amateur racing went to shit when factory contingency programs got big.

I believe honda was the first to up the BS factor by putting money earned on a credit card that you could use just like cash. 

Now series and events use it frequently.

Hell, Swan mx has it in their ad in the LL program that amateur classes will be paid with visa cards.

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B Gotti
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7/30/2023 10:10am
B Gotti wrote:

Happenend the 80's & 90's as well. 

Wow didnt know it's been around that long. Having amatuer status can the riders collect purse money if they win a race? 

Any "A" classified rider can collect a purse at the local level. I believe they did away with it for a long while then brought it back a few years ago. They had an expert & pro-am license you could buy. Pro-am could still race LL's if I remember correctly.

mxbum
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7/30/2023 10:41am

The rules have changed over the years.  I am almost positive that when LL's started that the only rule against entering the A-mod (later Pro Sport) classes was that you could not have a factory contract.  My first trip to LL was 1990 and I know that in those first few years that I went there were racers running their AMA pro numbers earned from the prior year.  In 1998 Nick Wey finished 9th in AMA pro mx and won the 125 A P/S title at LL's.

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olds cool
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7/30/2023 11:25am

So now we gotta hate on Nick Wey?

Dammit!

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USA
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7/30/2023 12:06pm

Aren't they only allowed to ride Pro Sport and the Pro (A) classes? What's the big deal?

 

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7/30/2023 12:10pm
TDeath21 wrote:
It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro...

It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro debut for the final rounds of MX. 

To be fair they’re racing the pro class at Loretta’s 

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agn5008
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7/30/2023 12:26pm
TDeath21 wrote:
It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro...

It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro debut for the final rounds of MX. 

Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do well enough, right? Hockey? Football you can go from the NFL to semi pro leagues, right? 
 

If Chase Sexton wanted to race the 250 class this weekend he could do that, correct? I don’t understand why people have such an issue with anyone racing anything. Bennick, for example, already has a ride lined up for next year. Whether he gets beat at Loretta’s or not wont affect a thing with his plans next year. But if some unknown kid shows up and spanks him, guess who will be getting a call about a ride. 

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7/30/2023 12:59pm
agn5008 wrote:
Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do...

Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do well enough, right? Hockey? Football you can go from the NFL to semi pro leagues, right? 
 

If Chase Sexton wanted to race the 250 class this weekend he could do that, correct? I don’t understand why people have such an issue with anyone racing anything. Bennick, for example, already has a ride lined up for next year. Whether he gets beat at Loretta’s or not wont affect a thing with his plans next year. But if some unknown kid shows up and spanks him, guess who will be getting a call about a ride. 

There are different levels of professional sports. The minor leagues of hockey and baseball, G league, and other football leagues are professional. 

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RCMartin406
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7/30/2023 1:53pm

Say the complete words and put them together and it sounds ridiculous. ProAm 

Professional Amateur = Contradictory

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TDeath21
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7/30/2023 2:00pm
TDeath21 wrote:
It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro...

It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro debut for the final rounds of MX. 

agn5008 wrote:
Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do...

Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do well enough, right? Hockey? Football you can go from the NFL to semi pro leagues, right? 
 

If Chase Sexton wanted to race the 250 class this weekend he could do that, correct? I don’t understand why people have such an issue with anyone racing anything. Bennick, for example, already has a ride lined up for next year. Whether he gets beat at Loretta’s or not wont affect a thing with his plans next year. But if some unknown kid shows up and spanks him, guess who will be getting a call about a ride. 

Correct he could drop down and run 250s. Still a professional race and class. Just not the premier class. Which is actually something he wouldn’t be allowed to do in SX, only MX.

You used MLB. They can and do drop down to AA, AAA, and back up. That’s all fine. The equivalent here to MX would be if they dropped back down and played college ball. That would not fly and we’d all agree that would be silly to allow.

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agn5008
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7/30/2023 2:19pm
agn5008 wrote:
Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do...

Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do well enough, right? Hockey? Football you can go from the NFL to semi pro leagues, right? 
 

If Chase Sexton wanted to race the 250 class this weekend he could do that, correct? I don’t understand why people have such an issue with anyone racing anything. Bennick, for example, already has a ride lined up for next year. Whether he gets beat at Loretta’s or not wont affect a thing with his plans next year. But if some unknown kid shows up and spanks him, guess who will be getting a call about a ride. 

There are different levels of professional sports. The minor leagues of hockey and baseball, G league, and other football leagues are professional. 

So can you go from professional back to the minors in baseball? Can you play in the NFL then play in an amateur league? I legit don’t know the answers. If the answer is yes, then I don’t see how people can make this argument. 

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agn5008
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7/30/2023 2:24pm
TDeath21 wrote:
It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro...

It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro debut for the final rounds of MX. 

agn5008 wrote:
Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do...

Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do well enough, right? Hockey? Football you can go from the NFL to semi pro leagues, right? 
 

If Chase Sexton wanted to race the 250 class this weekend he could do that, correct? I don’t understand why people have such an issue with anyone racing anything. Bennick, for example, already has a ride lined up for next year. Whether he gets beat at Loretta’s or not wont affect a thing with his plans next year. But if some unknown kid shows up and spanks him, guess who will be getting a call about a ride. 

TDeath21 wrote:
Correct he could drop down and run 250s. Still a professional race and class. Just not the premier class. Which is actually something he wouldn’t be...

Correct he could drop down and run 250s. Still a professional race and class. Just not the premier class. Which is actually something he wouldn’t be allowed to do in SX, only MX.

You used MLB. They can and do drop down to AA, AAA, and back up. That’s all fine. The equivalent here to MX would be if they dropped back down and played college ball. That would not fly and we’d all agree that would be silly to allow.

I thought minor league came after college ball? I thought the minor league was basically a feeder program into the MLB. 

I’m not really taking college programs into consideration because we don’t have school programs in this sport to make that comparison. 

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7/30/2023 2:56pm
agn5008 wrote:
So can you go from professional back to the minors in baseball? Can you play in the NFL then play in an amateur league? I legit...

So can you go from professional back to the minors in baseball? Can you play in the NFL then play in an amateur league? I legit don’t know the answers. If the answer is yes, then I don’t see how people can make this argument. 

The minors are not amateur or semi-professional. You would not be able to play in college after starting a professional football career. You’re referring to minor leagues as semi-pro, which is incorrect.

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TDeath21
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7/30/2023 4:26pm
agn5008 wrote:
Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do...

Why “can’t” you be? I could be wrong but you can play in the MLB and go back to the minor league if you don’t do well enough, right? Hockey? Football you can go from the NFL to semi pro leagues, right? 
 

If Chase Sexton wanted to race the 250 class this weekend he could do that, correct? I don’t understand why people have such an issue with anyone racing anything. Bennick, for example, already has a ride lined up for next year. Whether he gets beat at Loretta’s or not wont affect a thing with his plans next year. But if some unknown kid shows up and spanks him, guess who will be getting a call about a ride. 

TDeath21 wrote:
Correct he could drop down and run 250s. Still a professional race and class. Just not the premier class. Which is actually something he wouldn’t be...

Correct he could drop down and run 250s. Still a professional race and class. Just not the premier class. Which is actually something he wouldn’t be allowed to do in SX, only MX.

You used MLB. They can and do drop down to AA, AAA, and back up. That’s all fine. The equivalent here to MX would be if they dropped back down and played college ball. That would not fly and we’d all agree that would be silly to allow.

agn5008 wrote:
I thought minor league came after college ball? I thought the minor league was basically a feeder program into the MLB.  I’m not really taking college...

I thought minor league came after college ball? I thought the minor league was basically a feeder program into the MLB. 

I’m not really taking college programs into consideration because we don’t have school programs in this sport to make that comparison. 

Yes minors come after college ball. That’s my point. 250 pro class comes after amateurs.

Baseball goes College > Minors > Pro

MX goes Amateurs > 250 Pro > 450 Pro

You don’t see guys go from AA baseball to college then back again. That would not make sense. That’s the equivalent to what some riders are doing in MX. 250 pro then amateur nationals then back to 250 pro.

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Dave v3.0
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7/30/2023 4:59pm

Say the complete words and put them together and it sounds ridiculous. ProAm 

Professional Amateur = Contradictory

Professional Sandbagger = Common in motocrossCool

cable
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7/30/2023 7:28pm

1982 winner of 30 plus class Gordon Bowden was an ltalian national champ supposedly.  Barry Higgins was in top 10.  Dick robbins was in the class.  First rider on Mx does nations.   

Meister
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7/30/2023 7:58pm

This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly no comparison between an ex pros skillset and an amateur (someone who never made pro). 

They dont lose talent. They lose fitness. 

No pro football player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro basketball player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro baseball player goes backwards unless he sucks and is forced to by a team. Not by choice. Then it's likely rehabilitation or retirement. 

For the "well they need somewhere to ride too" bullshit argument, they can race vet nationals in their appropriate age A class. Or, they turn +25 into +25 Vet Pro and all the rest should be defined by those who have never made a recorded fast 40. 

 

Only thing comparable is nascar guys racing sprints and the like. But even then, they're in a pro class. 

 

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7/30/2023 8:02pm

Rules are made to be interpreted and bent. 

Rules only apply to amateurs, for everybody else they are guide lines.

UpTiTe
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7/30/2023 8:16pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 8:18pm
Meister wrote:
This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly...

This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly no comparison between an ex pros skillset and an amateur (someone who never made pro). 

They dont lose talent. They lose fitness. 

No pro football player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro basketball player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro baseball player goes backwards unless he sucks and is forced to by a team. Not by choice. Then it's likely rehabilitation or retirement. 

For the "well they need somewhere to ride too" bullshit argument, they can race vet nationals in their appropriate age A class. Or, they turn +25 into +25 Vet Pro and all the rest should be defined by those who have never made a recorded fast 40. 

 

Only thing comparable is nascar guys racing sprints and the like. But even then, they're in a pro class. 

 

So a guy who enjoys riding and racing his motorcycle should just quit because a bunch of 40 year old cry babies can’t handle not winning the plastic prize? 
 

 Where are these mythical vet nationals? 

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Meister
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7/31/2023 6:52am
Meister wrote:
This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly...

This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly no comparison between an ex pros skillset and an amateur (someone who never made pro). 

They dont lose talent. They lose fitness. 

No pro football player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro basketball player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro baseball player goes backwards unless he sucks and is forced to by a team. Not by choice. Then it's likely rehabilitation or retirement. 

For the "well they need somewhere to ride too" bullshit argument, they can race vet nationals in their appropriate age A class. Or, they turn +25 into +25 Vet Pro and all the rest should be defined by those who have never made a recorded fast 40. 

 

Only thing comparable is nascar guys racing sprints and the like. But even then, they're in a pro class. 

 

UpTiTe wrote:
So a guy who enjoys riding and racing his motorcycle should just quit because a bunch of 40 year old cry babies can’t handle not winning...

So a guy who enjoys riding and racing his motorcycle should just quit because a bunch of 40 year old cry babies can’t handle not winning the plastic prize? 
 

 Where are these mythical vet nationals? 

No.

They can still ride. Infact I love to see them ride. Just shouldn't pretend they're an amature again. 

A guy who enjoys riding his motocross bike using his professional skill set that he honed for years (and in some cases was paid to do so) through the week (instead of working) can race the A classes at these events, or any other A/pro class. 

You cannot tell me ex pros have lost their skill. Someone who has the skill set to get into the fast 40 has a skill that sets him far apart from most motocrossers. 

 

https://glenhelen.com/38th-annual-dubya-world-vet-mx-championships-nove…

https://www.mammothmountain.com/motocross/event-guide

 

Whole series here!

 

https://www.mxvets.com/

 

https://www.vetmxnation.com/

 

Let me be clear, this isn't about me. I'll never be more than your avg joe mediocre vet guy who works 45-50 hours a week. 

My suggestions and thoughts would benefit your local A guys who have come of age more than someone like me. 

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UpTiTe
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7/31/2023 7:07am
Meister wrote:
This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly...

This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly no comparison between an ex pros skillset and an amateur (someone who never made pro). 

They dont lose talent. They lose fitness. 

No pro football player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro basketball player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro baseball player goes backwards unless he sucks and is forced to by a team. Not by choice. Then it's likely rehabilitation or retirement. 

For the "well they need somewhere to ride too" bullshit argument, they can race vet nationals in their appropriate age A class. Or, they turn +25 into +25 Vet Pro and all the rest should be defined by those who have never made a recorded fast 40. 

 

Only thing comparable is nascar guys racing sprints and the like. But even then, they're in a pro class. 

 

UpTiTe wrote:
So a guy who enjoys riding and racing his motorcycle should just quit because a bunch of 40 year old cry babies can’t handle not winning...

So a guy who enjoys riding and racing his motorcycle should just quit because a bunch of 40 year old cry babies can’t handle not winning the plastic prize? 
 

 Where are these mythical vet nationals? 

Meister wrote:
No. They can still ride. Infact I love to see them ride. Just shouldn't pretend they're an amature again.  A guy who enjoys riding his motocross...

No.

They can still ride. Infact I love to see them ride. Just shouldn't pretend they're an amature again. 

A guy who enjoys riding his motocross bike using his professional skill set that he honed for years (and in some cases was paid to do so) through the week (instead of working) can race the A classes at these events, or any other A/pro class. 

You cannot tell me ex pros have lost their skill. Someone who has the skill set to get into the fast 40 has a skill that sets him far apart from most motocrossers. 

 

https://glenhelen.com/38th-annual-dubya-world-vet-mx-championships-nove…

https://www.mammothmountain.com/motocross/event-guide

 

Whole series here!

 

https://www.mxvets.com/

 

https://www.vetmxnation.com/

 

Let me be clear, this isn't about me. I'll never be more than your avg joe mediocre vet guy who works 45-50 hours a week. 

My suggestions and thoughts would benefit your local A guys who have come of age more than someone like me. 

Good response, thank you. 
 

 But if there is no 40-50 vet pro class, I should still be able to ride plus 50. Some clubs just don’t have a vet pro class, so you shouldn’t stop former pros from racing. 

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davis224
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7/31/2023 7:30am

Say the complete words and put them together and it sounds ridiculous. ProAm 

Professional Amateur = Contradictory

I've always understood that to mean it as a mix of professional and amateur competitors, not a separate designation.

tuttle425
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7/31/2023 3:42pm
TDeath21 wrote:
It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro...

It’s fairly new and I personally hate it. You can’t be both amateur and pro. Finish your amateur career at Loretta’s and then make your pro debut for the final rounds of MX. 

Golf and tennis allow amateurs to play in pro events and then go back and compete in amateur events.  

2
7/31/2023 3:53pm
Meister wrote:
This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly...

This is why our sports silly. Allows ex pros to beat up on the guy whose always been a 40+ hour work week guy. There's truly no comparison between an ex pros skillset and an amateur (someone who never made pro). 

They dont lose talent. They lose fitness. 

No pro football player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro basketball player goes backwards, he retires.

No pro baseball player goes backwards unless he sucks and is forced to by a team. Not by choice. Then it's likely rehabilitation or retirement. 

For the "well they need somewhere to ride too" bullshit argument, they can race vet nationals in their appropriate age A class. Or, they turn +25 into +25 Vet Pro and all the rest should be defined by those who have never made a recorded fast 40. 

 

Only thing comparable is nascar guys racing sprints and the like. But even then, they're in a pro class. 

 

cry-baby-lol

 

2

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