Rookie Season Motocross Ricky Carmichael vs James Stewart vs Jett Lawrence, Who ends up with the most points

ando
Posts
4592
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth, AU
7/5/2023 1:17pm Edited Date/Time 7/5/2023 1:18pm
Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned...

Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned by Jett that it’s borderline comical. 

RC certainly has career stats that will be difficult to top.

However if you look at RC’s rookie year on a 250 (the subject of this thread), his results for the first six races were:

1-1

1-4

12-12

5-1

1-1

2-3

Pretty good but Jett’s start stacks up well so far.

5
1
mx313
Posts
1532
Joined
10/5/2021
Location
Brisbane City, QLD, AU
7/5/2023 3:00pm
Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned...

Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned by Jett that it’s borderline comical. 

Jett stats may be significantly behind in the whole career. Coz jett had a poor rookie year in comparison to ricky and James.

But jett being bad as a 16 year old rookie doesn't mean he couldn't have imporved more in his 1st 3 years to be closer to guys like ricky.

In jetts first 24 races he only had 2 wins. So that significantly brings down his stats.

From his first 34 races he has 5 wins.

Then he has 27 wins from his last 39 races.

This topic was to compare riders as they enter the premier class. So u have to ignore the 1st year or 2 of there careers. And how the others finished off. 

mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
7/5/2023 3:11pm
kxking wrote:
I'll start with the wall jump at Daytona, one of the most spectacular things I have ever seen in a race. But at lap 4 (I...

I'll start with the wall jump at Daytona, one of the most spectacular things I have ever seen in a race. But at lap 4 (I think), he was already gapping the field, then he crashed. If he stops doing it (unless someone catches up), he still wins by 7/8 seconds.

You do know he didn’t crash on the wall jump, right? He crashed on a simple triple that everyone was doing. That wasn’t riding over his...

You do know he didn’t crash on the wall jump, right? He crashed on a simple triple that everyone was doing. That wasn’t riding over his head, if anything, it looked like he got complacent and had a brain fart, almost like he was backing it down 😏

now I can think of one race that if he would’ve just settled for 2nd behind RC, his outdoor career would look alittle different. He had just beat RC in 2006 at the 1st round at Hangtown and the next race at High Point(I was there) 1st moto he caught and passed RC and put about 5 seconds on him. It looked like he was trying to break RC, but ended up crashing on that little step down. That crash changed him mentally for the rest of the season.

ohh another one was 2003 LV SX. This is probably the best example of losing a championship because of a crash. He lost the 2003 125 MX title because of this crash. 
Ok that’s all I got, I gave myself examples lol 

Yep i was at the step.down when that happened. 

1
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
7/5/2023 3:12pm
Not in denial at all, just not closed minded and can think objectively. Record books don’t always tell the whole story. For examples 1997 125 E...

Not in denial at all, just not closed minded and can think objectively. Record books don’t always tell the whole story. For examples 1997 125 E SX

You probably think Mt Rushmore is about record books ehh

mxb2 wrote:
Points at the end of the year are what matters, bonus $.  Titles, resume. Etc.  Style,lap times in practice. Mean nothing until it counts in the...

Points at the end of the year are what matters, bonus $.  Titles, resume. Etc.  Style,lap times in practice. Mean nothing until it counts in the races. 

Points? Yeah you’re missing the point! lol Nobody is disputing titles, wins, $$$ etc…..but they’re not the end all be all in our sport, otherwise Honda...

Points? Yeah you’re missing the point! lol

Nobody is disputing titles, wins, $$$ etc…..but they’re not the end all be all in our sport, otherwise Honda would’ve kept MC after 96, Kawi would’ve kept RC after 01, Honda would’ve kept RC after 04, Kawi would’ve kept JS after 08, Honda would’ve kept Chase after 23 etc.….AC would not still be a factory rider for 10 years with only 1 outdoor 250 title, Kroc with no SX titles wouldn’t have signed the most lucrative SX contract. I could go on and on.
You look at everything black and white, I’m never going to change your mind and you’re never going to change mine, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

All good man. 

1

The Shop

RCMartin406
Posts
619
Joined
4/9/2023
Location
Dallas, GA, USA
7/5/2023 4:50pm
kxking wrote:
I'll start with the wall jump at Daytona, one of the most spectacular things I have ever seen in a race. But at lap 4 (I...

I'll start with the wall jump at Daytona, one of the most spectacular things I have ever seen in a race. But at lap 4 (I think), he was already gapping the field, then he crashed. If he stops doing it (unless someone catches up), he still wins by 7/8 seconds.

You do know he didn’t crash on the wall jump, right? He crashed on a simple triple that everyone was doing. That wasn’t riding over his...

You do know he didn’t crash on the wall jump, right? He crashed on a simple triple that everyone was doing. That wasn’t riding over his head, if anything, it looked like he got complacent and had a brain fart, almost like he was backing it down 😏

now I can think of one race that if he would’ve just settled for 2nd behind RC, his outdoor career would look alittle different. He had just beat RC in 2006 at the 1st round at Hangtown and the next race at High Point(I was there) 1st moto he caught and passed RC and put about 5 seconds on him. It looked like he was trying to break RC, but ended up crashing on that little step down. That crash changed him mentally for the rest of the season.

ohh another one was 2003 LV SX. This is probably the best example of losing a championship because of a crash. He lost the 2003 125 MX title because of this crash. 
Ok that’s all I got, I gave myself examples lol 

mxb2 wrote:

Yep i was at the step.down when that happened. 

Haha, so was I, we were probably standing right next to each other. lol

That crash was brutal, I honestly thought at the time, that would be the last time we see James race. 

1
1
blockhead17
Posts
2874
Joined
6/13/2018
Location
Tokyo, JP
7/6/2023 12:03am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2023 12:04am

To those saying RC raced against no one when he was winning all the time Windham and Reed were no slouch outdoors.. Chad has won a Moto at MXDN, won the 2009 outdoor title after taking a few years off nationals.. THEN 3 years later is clearly the best guy in the class against prime RV and Dunge before the crash..

Chads outdoor career doesn’t look that great because RC was THAT good, he just won everything!

5
1
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
7/6/2023 2:51am
You do know he didn’t crash on the wall jump, right? He crashed on a simple triple that everyone was doing. That wasn’t riding over his...

You do know he didn’t crash on the wall jump, right? He crashed on a simple triple that everyone was doing. That wasn’t riding over his head, if anything, it looked like he got complacent and had a brain fart, almost like he was backing it down 😏

now I can think of one race that if he would’ve just settled for 2nd behind RC, his outdoor career would look alittle different. He had just beat RC in 2006 at the 1st round at Hangtown and the next race at High Point(I was there) 1st moto he caught and passed RC and put about 5 seconds on him. It looked like he was trying to break RC, but ended up crashing on that little step down. That crash changed him mentally for the rest of the season.

ohh another one was 2003 LV SX. This is probably the best example of losing a championship because of a crash. He lost the 2003 125 MX title because of this crash. 
Ok that’s all I got, I gave myself examples lol 

mxb2 wrote:

Yep i was at the step.down when that happened. 

Haha, so was I, we were probably standing right next to each other. lol That crash was brutal, I honestly thought at the time, that would...

Haha, so was I, we were probably standing right next to each other. lol

That crash was brutal, I honestly thought at the time, that would be the last time we see James race. 

Crazy,my wife was wtf is that green bike in the air. 🙄

SethLex13
Posts
12
Joined
2/6/2023
Location
Lexington, KY, USA
7/11/2023 11:17pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2023 11:46pm

Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does.

Where are the top competitors to Jett, our current man on a quest for perfection? I’d say a solid method of determining who those “top competitors” are is by looking at the final point standings of last year’s Outdoor series, with caveats to this method being Dylan Ferrandis (‘21 champ) who did not compete last year, and is currently racing himself back into shape and who, I believe, has not yet gotten back to his full potential as of round 6 of the year.

 

#1 Eli Tomac: Injured, not competing, out with ruptured achilles

#2 Chase Sexton: Raced Jett very closely at round one in Pala (but lost), before having a head injury and contracting mono, an extremely tough illness for an athlete to fully recover from. Missed 3 rounds, and has finished 2-3, and 2-2 since returning, while still recovering from mono.

#3 Jason Anderson: Neck injury caused him to miss multiple rounds at the end of SX season and the first 4 rounds of MX season. Is racing himself into shape, and has a ways to go, as the results have been less than desirable.

#4 Ken Roczen: Not competing, save round 4 where he arguably gave Jett his toughest competition this season.

#5 Christian Craig: Injured, not competing

#6 Ryan Dungey: Not competing

#7 Aaron Plessinger: Competing with solid results, just can’t compete with Jett

#8 Justin Barcia: Injured, not competing

#9 Joey Savatgy: Not competing

 

So, 8 of last year’s top 9 riders are either out of this series completely, or have missed multiple rounds and are still recovering from/nursing old injuries/illnesses. I would say that while Jett does appear to be a generational talent, capable of breaking many records throughout what is hopefully a long and healthy career, the level of hype and the recency bias that everyone is currently infected with is a bit out of focus. HOWEVER, we are talking about each of these three men as they were in their rookie seasons, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Jett is one of the best rookies we have ever seen in the premier class.

My vote is Carmichael ends the series with more points, followed by Jett in second who does manage to win several motos and beat rookie RC straight up on a couple occasions, followed by JS who although able to show he can be the fastest at times, proves to be too inconsistent to compete across the span of a season with RC and Jett.

 

✌🏼

1
4
7/11/2023 11:30pm

Ricky and Stew lived and breathed motocross from a young age, and were pushed by a parent to be the best. With expectations pushed on them greater than anyone before or during that time, that's why they demolished them all.

Jett has lived and breathed motocross, in an era where a lot of pros have had a similar upbringing to the RC and JS template, and he is smoking them all.

The difference is that Jett grew up with a champion older brother, and the people pushing him haven't been his mum or dad. The people pushing have been proven high level mx trainers/coaches/racers, he is a product of a level of training and expectation that has not been seen before.

This is why he beats RC and JS if they all raced their rookie season together.

3
Herr Lich
Posts
2568
Joined
7/11/2023
Location
Sydney, NSW, AU
7/11/2023 11:58pm

This is a strangely put together post.  Instead of this business about them starting at the same time and rookie seasons and so on, why not just ask who would win out of the three if they were all in their prime? (Which is what you first started your post with).  Or alternatively, who would win based on the form each had during their perfect seasons?  Obviously, you can't even ask this as Jett is still in the midst of his season. 

Herr Lich
Posts
2568
Joined
7/11/2023
Location
Sydney, NSW, AU
7/12/2023 12:02am
Ricky and Stew lived and breathed motocross from a young age, and were pushed by a parent to be the best. With expectations pushed on them...

Ricky and Stew lived and breathed motocross from a young age, and were pushed by a parent to be the best. With expectations pushed on them greater than anyone before or during that time, that's why they demolished them all.

Jett has lived and breathed motocross, in an era where a lot of pros have had a similar upbringing to the RC and JS template, and he is smoking them all.

The difference is that Jett grew up with a champion older brother, and the people pushing him haven't been his mum or dad. The people pushing have been proven high level mx trainers/coaches/racers, he is a product of a level of training and expectation that has not been seen before.

This is why he beats RC and JS if they all raced their rookie season together.

What are we to base these mythical 'rookie seasons' on?  If it's their actual rookie seasons, Jett - if he continues as he's begun - will win - just look at the actual stats.  

mx313
Posts
1532
Joined
10/5/2021
Location
Brisbane City, QLD, AU
7/12/2023 1:07am
SethLex13 wrote:
Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does. Where are the top competitors to...

Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does.

Where are the top competitors to Jett, our current man on a quest for perfection? I’d say a solid method of determining who those “top competitors” are is by looking at the final point standings of last year’s Outdoor series, with caveats to this method being Dylan Ferrandis (‘21 champ) who did not compete last year, and is currently racing himself back into shape and who, I believe, has not yet gotten back to his full potential as of round 6 of the year.

 

#1 Eli Tomac: Injured, not competing, out with ruptured achilles

#2 Chase Sexton: Raced Jett very closely at round one in Pala (but lost), before having a head injury and contracting mono, an extremely tough illness for an athlete to fully recover from. Missed 3 rounds, and has finished 2-3, and 2-2 since returning, while still recovering from mono.

#3 Jason Anderson: Neck injury caused him to miss multiple rounds at the end of SX season and the first 4 rounds of MX season. Is racing himself into shape, and has a ways to go, as the results have been less than desirable.

#4 Ken Roczen: Not competing, save round 4 where he arguably gave Jett his toughest competition this season.

#5 Christian Craig: Injured, not competing

#6 Ryan Dungey: Not competing

#7 Aaron Plessinger: Competing with solid results, just can’t compete with Jett

#8 Justin Barcia: Injured, not competing

#9 Joey Savatgy: Not competing

 

So, 8 of last year’s top 9 riders are either out of this series completely, or have missed multiple rounds and are still recovering from/nursing old injuries/illnesses. I would say that while Jett does appear to be a generational talent, capable of breaking many records throughout what is hopefully a long and healthy career, the level of hype and the recency bias that everyone is currently infected with is a bit out of focus. HOWEVER, we are talking about each of these three men as they were in their rookie seasons, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Jett is one of the best rookies we have ever seen in the premier class.

My vote is Carmichael ends the series with more points, followed by Jett in second who does manage to win several motos and beat rookie RC straight up on a couple occasions, followed by JS who although able to show he can be the fastest at times, proves to be too inconsistent to compete across the span of a season with RC and Jett.

 

✌🏼

Chase never had mono. He said in a recent interview it was a false test result. 

Yeah 8 of last year's top 9 isn't here. But 5 of this year's top 6 wasn't there last year. I know they wouldn't but who is to say those 5 wouldn't have beat the 8 from last season?? 2 of them beat chase and Eli last time they race a mx championship and a 3rd is jett.

Ferrandis is 19 weeks post concussion how long do u want to make excuses for him?

Yes this championship is pretty weak. But the guy winning is a rookie. Rc went undefeated in his 3rd and 5th years. James was in his 4th.

2
2
CPR
Posts
7165
Joined
10/4/2018
Location
AU
7/12/2023 2:49am Edited Date/Time 7/12/2023 2:50am
SethLex13 wrote:
Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does. Where are the top competitors to...

Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does.

Where are the top competitors to Jett, our current man on a quest for perfection? I’d say a solid method of determining who those “top competitors” are is by looking at the final point standings of last year’s Outdoor series, with caveats to this method being Dylan Ferrandis (‘21 champ) who did not compete last year, and is currently racing himself back into shape and who, I believe, has not yet gotten back to his full potential as of round 6 of the year.

 

#1 Eli Tomac: Injured, not competing, out with ruptured achilles

#2 Chase Sexton: Raced Jett very closely at round one in Pala (but lost), before having a head injury and contracting mono, an extremely tough illness for an athlete to fully recover from. Missed 3 rounds, and has finished 2-3, and 2-2 since returning, while still recovering from mono.

#3 Jason Anderson: Neck injury caused him to miss multiple rounds at the end of SX season and the first 4 rounds of MX season. Is racing himself into shape, and has a ways to go, as the results have been less than desirable.

#4 Ken Roczen: Not competing, save round 4 where he arguably gave Jett his toughest competition this season.

#5 Christian Craig: Injured, not competing

#6 Ryan Dungey: Not competing

#7 Aaron Plessinger: Competing with solid results, just can’t compete with Jett

#8 Justin Barcia: Injured, not competing

#9 Joey Savatgy: Not competing

 

So, 8 of last year’s top 9 riders are either out of this series completely, or have missed multiple rounds and are still recovering from/nursing old injuries/illnesses. I would say that while Jett does appear to be a generational talent, capable of breaking many records throughout what is hopefully a long and healthy career, the level of hype and the recency bias that everyone is currently infected with is a bit out of focus. HOWEVER, we are talking about each of these three men as they were in their rookie seasons, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Jett is one of the best rookies we have ever seen in the premier class.

My vote is Carmichael ends the series with more points, followed by Jett in second who does manage to win several motos and beat rookie RC straight up on a couple occasions, followed by JS who although able to show he can be the fastest at times, proves to be too inconsistent to compete across the span of a season with RC and Jett.

 

✌🏼

Line up the top 5 or 10 from 08 and tell me how it’s better than 23 please.

RCMartin406
Posts
619
Joined
4/9/2023
Location
Dallas, GA, USA
7/12/2023 6:13am Edited Date/Time 7/12/2023 6:16am
SethLex13 wrote:
Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does. Where are the top competitors to...

Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does.

Where are the top competitors to Jett, our current man on a quest for perfection? I’d say a solid method of determining who those “top competitors” are is by looking at the final point standings of last year’s Outdoor series, with caveats to this method being Dylan Ferrandis (‘21 champ) who did not compete last year, and is currently racing himself back into shape and who, I believe, has not yet gotten back to his full potential as of round 6 of the year.

 

#1 Eli Tomac: Injured, not competing, out with ruptured achilles

#2 Chase Sexton: Raced Jett very closely at round one in Pala (but lost), before having a head injury and contracting mono, an extremely tough illness for an athlete to fully recover from. Missed 3 rounds, and has finished 2-3, and 2-2 since returning, while still recovering from mono.

#3 Jason Anderson: Neck injury caused him to miss multiple rounds at the end of SX season and the first 4 rounds of MX season. Is racing himself into shape, and has a ways to go, as the results have been less than desirable.

#4 Ken Roczen: Not competing, save round 4 where he arguably gave Jett his toughest competition this season.

#5 Christian Craig: Injured, not competing

#6 Ryan Dungey: Not competing

#7 Aaron Plessinger: Competing with solid results, just can’t compete with Jett

#8 Justin Barcia: Injured, not competing

#9 Joey Savatgy: Not competing

 

So, 8 of last year’s top 9 riders are either out of this series completely, or have missed multiple rounds and are still recovering from/nursing old injuries/illnesses. I would say that while Jett does appear to be a generational talent, capable of breaking many records throughout what is hopefully a long and healthy career, the level of hype and the recency bias that everyone is currently infected with is a bit out of focus. HOWEVER, we are talking about each of these three men as they were in their rookie seasons, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Jett is one of the best rookies we have ever seen in the premier class.

My vote is Carmichael ends the series with more points, followed by Jett in second who does manage to win several motos and beat rookie RC straight up on a couple occasions, followed by JS who although able to show he can be the fastest at times, proves to be too inconsistent to compete across the span of a season with RC and Jett.

 

✌🏼

CPR wrote:

Line up the top 5 or 10 from 08 and tell me how it’s better than 23 please.

2008 started out promising, but guys started dropping like flies trying to keep up with Stew!😂

Alessi, Milsaps, Townley, Short, Ferry, Byrne, Tedesco, Hill, Hepler, Cooper

I really thought Townley would be James’ biggest competition having just came off that great battle with RV in 2007, but it was not to be.

DV scored 11 points 😏

2
mx313
Posts
1532
Joined
10/5/2021
Location
Brisbane City, QLD, AU
7/12/2023 1:20pm
SethLex13 wrote:
Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does. Where are the top competitors to...

Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does.

Where are the top competitors to Jett, our current man on a quest for perfection? I’d say a solid method of determining who those “top competitors” are is by looking at the final point standings of last year’s Outdoor series, with caveats to this method being Dylan Ferrandis (‘21 champ) who did not compete last year, and is currently racing himself back into shape and who, I believe, has not yet gotten back to his full potential as of round 6 of the year.

 

#1 Eli Tomac: Injured, not competing, out with ruptured achilles

#2 Chase Sexton: Raced Jett very closely at round one in Pala (but lost), before having a head injury and contracting mono, an extremely tough illness for an athlete to fully recover from. Missed 3 rounds, and has finished 2-3, and 2-2 since returning, while still recovering from mono.

#3 Jason Anderson: Neck injury caused him to miss multiple rounds at the end of SX season and the first 4 rounds of MX season. Is racing himself into shape, and has a ways to go, as the results have been less than desirable.

#4 Ken Roczen: Not competing, save round 4 where he arguably gave Jett his toughest competition this season.

#5 Christian Craig: Injured, not competing

#6 Ryan Dungey: Not competing

#7 Aaron Plessinger: Competing with solid results, just can’t compete with Jett

#8 Justin Barcia: Injured, not competing

#9 Joey Savatgy: Not competing

 

So, 8 of last year’s top 9 riders are either out of this series completely, or have missed multiple rounds and are still recovering from/nursing old injuries/illnesses. I would say that while Jett does appear to be a generational talent, capable of breaking many records throughout what is hopefully a long and healthy career, the level of hype and the recency bias that everyone is currently infected with is a bit out of focus. HOWEVER, we are talking about each of these three men as they were in their rookie seasons, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Jett is one of the best rookies we have ever seen in the premier class.

My vote is Carmichael ends the series with more points, followed by Jett in second who does manage to win several motos and beat rookie RC straight up on a couple occasions, followed by JS who although able to show he can be the fastest at times, proves to be too inconsistent to compete across the span of a season with RC and Jett.

 

✌🏼

CPR wrote:

Line up the top 5 or 10 from 08 and tell me how it’s better than 23 please.

2008 started out promising, but guys started dropping like flies trying to keep up with Stew!😂 Alessi, Milsaps, Townley, Short, Ferry, Byrne, Tedesco, Hill, Hepler, Cooper...

2008 started out promising, but guys started dropping like flies trying to keep up with Stew!😂

Alessi, Milsaps, Townley, Short, Ferry, Byrne, Tedesco, Hill, Hepler, Cooper

I really thought Townley would be James’ biggest competition having just came off that great battle with RV in 2007, but it was not to be.

DV scored 11 points 😏

So that's 0 450 titles. Maybe 3 250 titles and prob 10 450 wins.

 

In 15 years time you will just be looking at the names not the physical condition. You don't remember of those guys who was slightly injured.

 

Anderson, ferrandis, sexton, webb, that's 5 450 titles. And ac and ap you have about 12 250 titles.

3
CPR
Posts
7165
Joined
10/4/2018
Location
AU
7/12/2023 2:22pm
CPR wrote:

Line up the top 5 or 10 from 08 and tell me how it’s better than 23 please.

2008 started out promising, but guys started dropping like flies trying to keep up with Stew!😂 Alessi, Milsaps, Townley, Short, Ferry, Byrne, Tedesco, Hill, Hepler, Cooper...

2008 started out promising, but guys started dropping like flies trying to keep up with Stew!😂

Alessi, Milsaps, Townley, Short, Ferry, Byrne, Tedesco, Hill, Hepler, Cooper

I really thought Townley would be James’ biggest competition having just came off that great battle with RV in 2007, but it was not to be.

DV scored 11 points 😏

mx313 wrote:
So that's 0 450 titles. Maybe 3 250 titles and prob 10 450 wins.   In 15 years time you will just be looking at the...

So that's 0 450 titles. Maybe 3 250 titles and prob 10 450 wins.

 

In 15 years time you will just be looking at the names not the physical condition. You don't remember of those guys who was slightly injured.

 

Anderson, ferrandis, sexton, webb, that's 5 450 titles. And ac and ap you have about 12 250 titles.

That’s exactly what I was getting at, cheers.

RCMartin406
Posts
619
Joined
4/9/2023
Location
Dallas, GA, USA
7/12/2023 2:46pm
2008 started out promising, but guys started dropping like flies trying to keep up with Stew!😂 Alessi, Milsaps, Townley, Short, Ferry, Byrne, Tedesco, Hill, Hepler, Cooper...

2008 started out promising, but guys started dropping like flies trying to keep up with Stew!😂

Alessi, Milsaps, Townley, Short, Ferry, Byrne, Tedesco, Hill, Hepler, Cooper

I really thought Townley would be James’ biggest competition having just came off that great battle with RV in 2007, but it was not to be.

DV scored 11 points 😏

mx313 wrote:
So that's 0 450 titles. Maybe 3 250 titles and prob 10 450 wins.   In 15 years time you will just be looking at the...

So that's 0 450 titles. Maybe 3 250 titles and prob 10 450 wins.

 

In 15 years time you will just be looking at the names not the physical condition. You don't remember of those guys who was slightly injured.

 

Anderson, ferrandis, sexton, webb, that's 5 450 titles. And ac and ap you have about 12 250 titles.

CPR wrote:

That’s exactly what I was getting at, cheers.

Well, you know why most didn’t have titles and wins, because James and Ricky were greedy, they took them all! Haha Cheers

1
3
SethLex13
Posts
12
Joined
2/6/2023
Location
Lexington, KY, USA
7/12/2023 5:18pm
SethLex13 wrote:
Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does. Where are the top competitors to...

Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does.

Where are the top competitors to Jett, our current man on a quest for perfection? I’d say a solid method of determining who those “top competitors” are is by looking at the final point standings of last year’s Outdoor series, with caveats to this method being Dylan Ferrandis (‘21 champ) who did not compete last year, and is currently racing himself back into shape and who, I believe, has not yet gotten back to his full potential as of round 6 of the year.

 

#1 Eli Tomac: Injured, not competing, out with ruptured achilles

#2 Chase Sexton: Raced Jett very closely at round one in Pala (but lost), before having a head injury and contracting mono, an extremely tough illness for an athlete to fully recover from. Missed 3 rounds, and has finished 2-3, and 2-2 since returning, while still recovering from mono.

#3 Jason Anderson: Neck injury caused him to miss multiple rounds at the end of SX season and the first 4 rounds of MX season. Is racing himself into shape, and has a ways to go, as the results have been less than desirable.

#4 Ken Roczen: Not competing, save round 4 where he arguably gave Jett his toughest competition this season.

#5 Christian Craig: Injured, not competing

#6 Ryan Dungey: Not competing

#7 Aaron Plessinger: Competing with solid results, just can’t compete with Jett

#8 Justin Barcia: Injured, not competing

#9 Joey Savatgy: Not competing

 

So, 8 of last year’s top 9 riders are either out of this series completely, or have missed multiple rounds and are still recovering from/nursing old injuries/illnesses. I would say that while Jett does appear to be a generational talent, capable of breaking many records throughout what is hopefully a long and healthy career, the level of hype and the recency bias that everyone is currently infected with is a bit out of focus. HOWEVER, we are talking about each of these three men as they were in their rookie seasons, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Jett is one of the best rookies we have ever seen in the premier class.

My vote is Carmichael ends the series with more points, followed by Jett in second who does manage to win several motos and beat rookie RC straight up on a couple occasions, followed by JS who although able to show he can be the fastest at times, proves to be too inconsistent to compete across the span of a season with RC and Jett.

 

✌🏼

mx313 wrote:
Chase never had mono. He said in a recent interview it was a false test result.  Yeah 8 of last year's top 9 isn't here. But...

Chase never had mono. He said in a recent interview it was a false test result. 

Yeah 8 of last year's top 9 isn't here. But 5 of this year's top 6 wasn't there last year. I know they wouldn't but who is to say those 5 wouldn't have beat the 8 from last season?? 2 of them beat chase and Eli last time they race a mx championship and a 3rd is jett.

Ferrandis is 19 weeks post concussion how long do u want to make excuses for him?

Yes this championship is pretty weak. But the guy winning is a rookie. Rc went undefeated in his 3rd and 5th years. James was in his 4th.

Don’t know if you’ve ever had a concussion, or ever raced competitively, but depending on the grade of the concussion you can’t to jack for a length of time. So no on bike training, no workouts for some time, either. You can literally look at Dylan’s face and tell he isn’t in peak physical condition. He looks a little doughy, for Pro Nationals standards.

If you can hop on a 450 after not training and not having your mental faculties all together and still compete at an elite level, I’d know your name…but I don’t.

Sweet number though. I used to run 313, too.

1
SethLex13
Posts
12
Joined
2/6/2023
Location
Lexington, KY, USA
7/16/2023 10:34am
SethLex13 wrote:
Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does. Where are the top competitors to...

Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does.

Where are the top competitors to Jett, our current man on a quest for perfection? I’d say a solid method of determining who those “top competitors” are is by looking at the final point standings of last year’s Outdoor series, with caveats to this method being Dylan Ferrandis (‘21 champ) who did not compete last year, and is currently racing himself back into shape and who, I believe, has not yet gotten back to his full potential as of round 6 of the year.

 

#1 Eli Tomac: Injured, not competing, out with ruptured achilles

#2 Chase Sexton: Raced Jett very closely at round one in Pala (but lost), before having a head injury and contracting mono, an extremely tough illness for an athlete to fully recover from. Missed 3 rounds, and has finished 2-3, and 2-2 since returning, while still recovering from mono.

#3 Jason Anderson: Neck injury caused him to miss multiple rounds at the end of SX season and the first 4 rounds of MX season. Is racing himself into shape, and has a ways to go, as the results have been less than desirable.

#4 Ken Roczen: Not competing, save round 4 where he arguably gave Jett his toughest competition this season.

#5 Christian Craig: Injured, not competing

#6 Ryan Dungey: Not competing

#7 Aaron Plessinger: Competing with solid results, just can’t compete with Jett

#8 Justin Barcia: Injured, not competing

#9 Joey Savatgy: Not competing

 

So, 8 of last year’s top 9 riders are either out of this series completely, or have missed multiple rounds and are still recovering from/nursing old injuries/illnesses. I would say that while Jett does appear to be a generational talent, capable of breaking many records throughout what is hopefully a long and healthy career, the level of hype and the recency bias that everyone is currently infected with is a bit out of focus. HOWEVER, we are talking about each of these three men as they were in their rookie seasons, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Jett is one of the best rookies we have ever seen in the premier class.

My vote is Carmichael ends the series with more points, followed by Jett in second who does manage to win several motos and beat rookie RC straight up on a couple occasions, followed by JS who although able to show he can be the fastest at times, proves to be too inconsistent to compete across the span of a season with RC and Jett.

 

✌🏼

mx313 wrote:
Chase never had mono. He said in a recent interview it was a false test result.  Yeah 8 of last year's top 9 isn't here. But...

Chase never had mono. He said in a recent interview it was a false test result. 

Yeah 8 of last year's top 9 isn't here. But 5 of this year's top 6 wasn't there last year. I know they wouldn't but who is to say those 5 wouldn't have beat the 8 from last season?? 2 of them beat chase and Eli last time they race a mx championship and a 3rd is jett.

Ferrandis is 19 weeks post concussion how long do u want to make excuses for him?

Yes this championship is pretty weak. But the guy winning is a rookie. Rc went undefeated in his 3rd and 5th years. James was in his 4th.

Also, can you provide a link to the interview where Chase says he didn’t actually have mono? I can find nothing on the interwebs.

1
7/16/2023 1:43pm

Call me crazy but I think this version of Jett gives a prime RC/Bubba a run for their money.

1
2
BigRedMachine
Posts
692
Joined
1/29/2023
Location
Grants Pass, OR, USA
7/16/2023 6:27pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2023 6:28pm
Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned...

Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned by Jett that it’s borderline comical. 

He might not be shit compared to RC yet, but when comparing rookie premier class seasons between Ricky Carmichael and Jett Lawrence, RC isn't even in the same league of success that Jett Lawrence is, now I know that might sound sacrilegious to say, but it's the truth.   Now comparing Ricky Carmichael of 2000 through 2007, I'd say Ricky beats him, but were just seeing the beginning stages of Jett Lawrence and have no idea how good he might be, but for a Rookie, he's been amazing. 

2
Goldmember
Posts
671
Joined
12/23/2021
Location
Tel Aviv, IL
7/16/2023 7:07pm
SethLex13 wrote:

Also, can you provide a link to the interview where Chase says he didn’t actually have mono? I can find nothing on the interwebs.

No link, but he stated no mono a couple of times, I think to Weigandt. He was embarrassed about it and said he changed doctors.

1
Chris_Buehler
Posts
8688
Joined
7/21/2019
Location
PORTLAND, CT, USA
7/16/2023 7:15pm
Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned...

Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned by Jett that it’s borderline comical. 

He might not be shit compared to RC yet, but when comparing rookie premier class seasons between Ricky Carmichael and Jett Lawrence, RC isn't even in...

He might not be shit compared to RC yet, but when comparing rookie premier class seasons between Ricky Carmichael and Jett Lawrence, RC isn't even in the same league of success that Jett Lawrence is, now I know that might sound sacrilegious to say, but it's the truth.   Now comparing Ricky Carmichael of 2000 through 2007, I'd say Ricky beats him, but were just seeing the beginning stages of Jett Lawrence and have no idea how good he might be, but for a Rookie, he's been amazing. 

Yeah somehow this thread morphed into something else. The question was which rookie would win. Not if the versions of RC and Bubba that went undefeated would beat Jett. Jett is the best rookie by a mile. But, yeah,  if we put him up against 2004 RC or 2008 Bubba he gets smoked

BigRedMachine
Posts
692
Joined
1/29/2023
Location
Grants Pass, OR, USA
7/16/2023 10:24pm
Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned...

Jett ain’t shit compared to RC. I’ve posted up the stats from the beginning of their careers on here many times because people are so disillusioned by Jett that it’s borderline comical. 

He might not be shit compared to RC yet, but when comparing rookie premier class seasons between Ricky Carmichael and Jett Lawrence, RC isn't even in...

He might not be shit compared to RC yet, but when comparing rookie premier class seasons between Ricky Carmichael and Jett Lawrence, RC isn't even in the same league of success that Jett Lawrence is, now I know that might sound sacrilegious to say, but it's the truth.   Now comparing Ricky Carmichael of 2000 through 2007, I'd say Ricky beats him, but were just seeing the beginning stages of Jett Lawrence and have no idea how good he might be, but for a Rookie, he's been amazing. 

Yeah somehow this thread morphed into something else. The question was which rookie would win. Not if the versions of RC and Bubba that went undefeated...

Yeah somehow this thread morphed into something else. The question was which rookie would win. Not if the versions of RC and Bubba that went undefeated would beat Jett. Jett is the best rookie by a mile. But, yeah,  if we put him up against 2004 RC or 2008 Bubba he gets smoked

I don't think smoked is necessarily the right word, but RC and JS at the height of their prime and experience would probably beat the rookie version of Jett Lawrence.  Now 3 or 4 years from now, Jett might raise his game to the point he'd beat RC and JS at their best.  I will say this though, with the advances in motocross bike technology, Jett riding his 2023 HRC CRF450, would beat RC on his 2004 CRF450 and James on his 2008 KX450F.  Anyways! it's all hypothetical, the 3 of them are all badasses and we can only guess who was the best, but maybe we'll have a better idea in 8 or 10 years after we see how many titles Jett racks up when he's at his absolute prime, which he's not at yet. 

mx313
Posts
1532
Joined
10/5/2021
Location
Brisbane City, QLD, AU
7/17/2023 1:44am
SethLex13 wrote:
Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does. Where are the top competitors to...

Unpopular opinion, but I’d say that the ‘02, ‘04 and ‘08 seasons had stiffer competition than the ‘23 season does.

Where are the top competitors to Jett, our current man on a quest for perfection? I’d say a solid method of determining who those “top competitors” are is by looking at the final point standings of last year’s Outdoor series, with caveats to this method being Dylan Ferrandis (‘21 champ) who did not compete last year, and is currently racing himself back into shape and who, I believe, has not yet gotten back to his full potential as of round 6 of the year.

 

#1 Eli Tomac: Injured, not competing, out with ruptured achilles

#2 Chase Sexton: Raced Jett very closely at round one in Pala (but lost), before having a head injury and contracting mono, an extremely tough illness for an athlete to fully recover from. Missed 3 rounds, and has finished 2-3, and 2-2 since returning, while still recovering from mono.

#3 Jason Anderson: Neck injury caused him to miss multiple rounds at the end of SX season and the first 4 rounds of MX season. Is racing himself into shape, and has a ways to go, as the results have been less than desirable.

#4 Ken Roczen: Not competing, save round 4 where he arguably gave Jett his toughest competition this season.

#5 Christian Craig: Injured, not competing

#6 Ryan Dungey: Not competing

#7 Aaron Plessinger: Competing with solid results, just can’t compete with Jett

#8 Justin Barcia: Injured, not competing

#9 Joey Savatgy: Not competing

 

So, 8 of last year’s top 9 riders are either out of this series completely, or have missed multiple rounds and are still recovering from/nursing old injuries/illnesses. I would say that while Jett does appear to be a generational talent, capable of breaking many records throughout what is hopefully a long and healthy career, the level of hype and the recency bias that everyone is currently infected with is a bit out of focus. HOWEVER, we are talking about each of these three men as they were in their rookie seasons, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Jett is one of the best rookies we have ever seen in the premier class.

My vote is Carmichael ends the series with more points, followed by Jett in second who does manage to win several motos and beat rookie RC straight up on a couple occasions, followed by JS who although able to show he can be the fastest at times, proves to be too inconsistent to compete across the span of a season with RC and Jett.

 

✌🏼

mx313 wrote:
Chase never had mono. He said in a recent interview it was a false test result.  Yeah 8 of last year's top 9 isn't here. But...

Chase never had mono. He said in a recent interview it was a false test result. 

Yeah 8 of last year's top 9 isn't here. But 5 of this year's top 6 wasn't there last year. I know they wouldn't but who is to say those 5 wouldn't have beat the 8 from last season?? 2 of them beat chase and Eli last time they race a mx championship and a 3rd is jett.

Ferrandis is 19 weeks post concussion how long do u want to make excuses for him?

Yes this championship is pretty weak. But the guy winning is a rookie. Rc went undefeated in his 3rd and 5th years. James was in his 4th.

SethLex13 wrote:

Also, can you provide a link to the interview where Chase says he didn’t actually have mono? I can find nothing on the interwebs.

Kasims
Posts
189
Joined
3/25/2009
Location
LV
7/17/2023 3:10am

Call me crazy but I think this version of Jett gives a prime RC/Bubba a run for their money.

It's a joke right? Laughing

1
BigRedMachine
Posts
692
Joined
1/29/2023
Location
Grants Pass, OR, USA
7/17/2023 5:18am

Call me crazy but I think this version of Jett gives a prime RC/Bubba a run for their money.

Kasims wrote:
It's a joke right?

It's a joke right? Laughing

Well! I think we can all agree that Eli Tomac of the last couple years probably is running about the same speed as RC and JS7 and the only rider that could stay with him last year was Chase Sexton and Jett Lawrence has consistently beat him this year in outdoor motocross, so I agree that I think he could run their pace and give those two a run for their money though not necessarily beat them when they were in their prime form.

mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
7/17/2023 6:04am

Call me crazy but I think this version of Jett gives a prime RC/Bubba a run for their money.

Kasims wrote:
It's a joke right?

It's a joke right? Laughing

Well! I think we can all agree that Eli Tomac of the last couple years probably is running about the same speed as RC and JS7...

Well! I think we can all agree that Eli Tomac of the last couple years probably is running about the same speed as RC and JS7 and the only rider that could stay with him last year was Chase Sexton and Jett Lawrence has consistently beat him this year in outdoor motocross, so I agree that I think he could run their pace and give those two a run for their money though not necessarily beat them when they were in their prime form.

Yea riders, track conditions havent changed since last.year, maybe compare lap times from ten years ago while we are at it.  Smh

2
downard254
Posts
4072
Joined
12/10/2012
Location
Bremen, OH, USA
7/17/2023 2:24pm Edited Date/Time 7/17/2023 2:26pm

Guess I’ll throw my .02 in, rookie season as in small bore class, nobody, and I mean nobody touches JS.  He absolutely owned that class.  Rookie season in the big bore class, it’s hard to say.  This season is pretty thin, JS didn’t have a 450 and was behind the 8 ball when he moved up, I think RC had a fairly thin field too, but honestly I can’t remember.  I’m pretty damn sure though, that the first half of 2007, no one else would have touched JS and RC.  Those two pushed each other so hard that everyone else was just camel fodder.

edit: OK, last season ET and Sexton did push each other pretty hard.  I somehow forgot that! 🤷🏼‍♂️

RCMartin406
Posts
619
Joined
4/9/2023
Location
Dallas, GA, USA
7/17/2023 6:41pm

Well, DV just said on pulp that if you take 2005-2007 RC and James, put them on 2023 bikes, both beat Jett.

1
4

Post a reply to: Rookie Season Motocross Ricky Carmichael vs James Stewart vs Jett Lawrence, Who ends up with the most points

The Latest