"Steve [cox] is wrong on a few counts"

DL
Profile picture for user DL
Posts
2627
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
DL 11/4/2009 9:50am
11/4/2009 9:50am
Nerd wrote:
Put it this way: Some riders get too many chances, like maybe Josh Hansen. Although without the two-straight X Games wins, Hansen would be gone from...
Put it this way: Some riders get too many chances, like maybe Josh Hansen. Although without the two-straight X Games wins, Hansen would be gone from the sport right now. Hansen's a great guy and he's very nice, but I don't think people deserve limitless chances.

However, at the same time, this will be Josh Hill's SECOND chance.

And I also don't think equating the amount of money Josh Hill made with Yamaha to his maturity level is a smart comparison. If anything, I think giving a teenager a ton of money can make them for more immature. It's the opposite effect. So when Zap (who I love) says, "Another key point is that unlike most teenagers (at least myself and the teenagers I grew up with) who screwed up and maybe lost their weekly allowance, Josh Hill has been rolling to the races as a professional athlete making a six digit salary. You'd think that if the kid was happy to accept a grown-up salary that he'd feel compelled to act like an adult, or at least a responsible teenager!"

That, in my opinion, is the king of faulty logic. What does being able to ride a dirt bike fast, and getting a lot of money, have to do with maturity level? How are these two things related?

In the NFL, you must be a minimum of three years out of high school in order to even sign a contract there. In other words, NFL players are 21 at minimum when they hit the field in the NFL for the first time. Josh Hill was 16. James Stewart is only 23! How long has he been around now? He's 23 years old.

Expecting that a kid is going to just magically become "mature" purely because he's getting a lot of money to race dirt bikes is ridiculous. And as I said, if anything the opposite is the case. As a rebellious teenager, one severe limiting factor of the amount of trouble you can get into is that you're broke. Give a kid a few hundred thousand dollars in that situation and see what happens.

The problem with the "walking in other people's shoes" perspective is that many people, including I think Zap in this situation, don't completely wear the shoes. On one hand, he tries to relate to Hill, but what he doesn't do is completely BECOME Josh Hill. To walk in someone's shoes, you can't keep YOUR age and YOUR experience and YOUR background, you have to take THEIRS. And if you were raised in a motorhome on the road going from amateur race to amateur race, never went to school as an adolescent, were sheltered from just about everything outside of the race track, etc., and then you were given a bunch of money and freedom from your parents, you would be a complete train wreck. Nearly all of us would be. And if you say you wouldn't, well, you're failing to completely wear his shoes again.

Josh Hill is a really good kid, and he shouldn't be "guilty by association" to Jason Lawrence. As a teenager at school, I hung out with the musicians most of the time, and ALL of them smoked pot and drank. I still haven't ever tried pot and I didn't have my first drink of alcohol until I was 23. It would've been foolish for people to conclude my behavior was consistent with theirs simply because I hung around with them.

Same goes for Hill.

Besides, the one thing about this sport is that results don't lie. You can complain about how many chances any number of guys have gotten, but ultimately if they still beat everyone else, they'll continue having more chances because racing is about results. Period. And you can't fake those.
Good job, well done, could'nt agree more........ oh, what was your point? LOL. Seriously IMO Zap Nerd have valid opoinions. It's the nature of the sport and this kind of stuff fuels the message boards and the bench racing.......... it's all good.
Nerd
Profile picture for user Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Nerd 11/4/2009 9:55am
11/4/2009 9:55am
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
Uh Oh


http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/...471FBF60A1FF30E0F6FE
Andrew Short is a model athlete and role model, but he wasn't brought in at 16 with a factory ride, nor did he show the kind of promise that warranted such treatment.

And I'm sure Andrew will get at least one soon, but Josh Hill has something Andrew Short doesn't, and that's a 450cc Supercross victory.
Ozzy
Profile picture for user Ozzy
Posts
1115
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Santa Clarita, CA, USA
Ozzy 11/4/2009 10:02am
11/4/2009 10:02am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 6:46pm
It really depends on the side your on.
Fan,
Insider,
or both..........
Things happen.
Things happen whether young or old.
However, being young is what it is.
As Cox said, we've seen this before, even if it
involved ourselves growing up.
The key thing here to remember is that once one
turns PRO, becomes the rockstar, there's rules & expectations.
Running it loosely only goes so far..........
In Hill's case exactly.
In Hepler's, sure a different deal as injuries have devastated his
career, yet one has to be smart about it, & Hep's statement about
the money made me wonder.
Maybe he just misspoke?
Money before health? Health before money? Maybe he has hit it to much?
For me, I'm a fan of both.
I'd like to see Hill rebound. I believe he can & will.
I'd like to see Hep as well, but his is a different deal.
Money should be the last thing on his mind.
That seems like commonsense, all things considered,
& life's to short anyways, so being smart in ones recovery is key.
For Hep, the bigger question is the next time.
There will certainly be a next time. In his profession the odds are more
towards that than not, so for him it's a medical question.
How long can he push the odds.
He's got good family/people around him so I trust he'll do the right thing.
Again, I hope they both turn it around.
Dave O.Wink




newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
newmann 11/4/2009 10:18am
11/4/2009 10:18am
newmann wrote:
MXA is on the money with the Hill and Hepler comments. Both great riders, but enough is enough. They need to earn their spots back after...
MXA is on the money with the Hill and Hepler comments. Both great riders, but enough is enough. They need to earn their spots back after some of the stuff they've either pulled or suffered through. If they are as good as they are capable of being, they'll be fine. If not, they'll get a job elsewhere.

As for Nerd, he's a big boy. He'll be fine. He has no problems calling people out, even if he's wrong or doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't need us to fight this trivial comment for him. I just renewed my subscription to MXA the other day for two years after letting it lapse for too long a time. Bought a project bike a few weeks back and dug out all my MXA mags for the latter part of 2001 and most of 2002 to get the scoop on the bike I bought. Tests, shootouts, comparisons, settings, fixes, issues, products to make it better........you name it, it was there. None of the other mags offer the insight into the bikes and products from a racers standpoint than MXA. Hands down, the best motocross mag from that standpoint. Racer X is also the best moto mag out there for different reasons. VMX Magazine from Australia has no competition, beautiful mag. All offer something different.
Moto_Geek wrote:
Actually that was the problem I had with the MXA, was basically just poor test/reviews. A true story. My friend bought the Honda CR250 the year...
Actually that was the problem I had with the MXA, was basically just poor test/reviews. A true story. My friend bought the Honda CR250 the year MXA toughted as the best 2 stroke that year. We all really rely on these test as you can't really test ride a new bike.

Anyways, they toughted "monster horsepower" and it turned out to be the worst year ever for the CR250 no power and had lots of issues with bog.

Which year CR250 was that? That's what I'm working on.

The Shop

See All »
ISUCK@MX
Profile picture for user ISUCK@MX
Posts
19
Joined
9/25/2009
Location
Sheridan, IN, USA
ISUCK@MX 11/4/2009 10:22am
11/4/2009 10:22am
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion.
In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high standards. Maybe too high. But they are who the factories look for.
Hell, even if that is too much of a stretch, you won't see Dungey, Pourcel, or Weimer screw it up for themselves. Some kids have it, some don't. The ones that do usually show it early on.
500guy
Profile picture for user 500guy
Posts
12469
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
500guy 11/4/2009 10:31am
11/4/2009 10:31am
Maybe the parents should think about letting them be kids when they are young so they are ready to handle themselves as Pro's ?

Also I agree with the age being higher like football those three years mean a lot towards maturity.
WORCSRacer
Profile picture for user WORCSRacer
Posts
2295
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Clovis, CA, USA
WORCSRacer 11/4/2009 10:45am
11/4/2009 10:45am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 6:46pm
ISUCK@MX wrote:
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion. In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high...
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion.
In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high standards. Maybe too high. But they are who the factories look for.
Hell, even if that is too much of a stretch, you won't see Dungey, Pourcel, or Weimer screw it up for themselves. Some kids have it, some don't. The ones that do usually show it early on.
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of behavior. I.E. Josh Hill, JLaw, Hansen, Hamblin...


Time to step aside for guys like Brayton, Hahn, Weimer, Georke ect...


Nerd
Profile picture for user Nerd
Posts
6155
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Nerd 11/4/2009 10:50am
11/4/2009 10:50am
ISUCK@MX wrote:
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion. In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high...
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion.
In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high standards. Maybe too high. But they are who the factories look for.
Hell, even if that is too much of a stretch, you won't see Dungey, Pourcel, or Weimer screw it up for themselves. Some kids have it, some don't. The ones that do usually show it early on.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of...
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of behavior. I.E. Josh Hill, JLaw, Hansen, Hamblin...


Time to step aside for guys like Brayton, Hahn, Weimer, Georke ect...


Hey, if Hill goes out and beats all of those guys, should he still not have the ride over those guys?
Grendel
Profile picture for user Grendel
Posts
2559
Joined
5/17/2008
Location
USA
Grendel 11/4/2009 10:52am
11/4/2009 10:52am
Nerd wrote:
Hey, if Hill goes out and beats all of those guys, should he still not have the ride over those guys?
No, because he's mean.
zookrider62!
Profile picture for user zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
zookrider62! 11/4/2009 10:56am
11/4/2009 10:56am
ISUCK@MX wrote:
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion. In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high...
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion.
In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high standards. Maybe too high. But they are who the factories look for.
Hell, even if that is too much of a stretch, you won't see Dungey, Pourcel, or Weimer screw it up for themselves. Some kids have it, some don't. The ones that do usually show it early on.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of...
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of behavior. I.E. Josh Hill, JLaw, Hansen, Hamblin...


Time to step aside for guys like Brayton, Hahn, Weimer, Georke ect...


I dont understand your arguement, 2 out of those 4 are on good teams, one had a factory ride and pissed it away. Why is stepping aside needed?
googs the 2nd 11/4/2009 11:12am
11/4/2009 11:12am
WORCSRacer wrote:
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of...
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of behavior. I.E. Josh Hill, JLaw, Hansen, Hamblin...


Time to step aside for guys like Brayton, Hahn, Weimer, Georke ect...


Not sure why you would group hamblin with that crowd?

did i miss something?
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
GuyB 11/4/2009 11:16am
11/4/2009 11:16am
Grendel wrote:
No, because he's mean.
You want mean? This is mean. Wink

shaner708
Profile picture for user shaner708
Posts
631
Joined
5/27/2009
Location
Export, PA, USA
shaner708 11/4/2009 11:21am
11/4/2009 11:21am
Now why did they have to go talk shit on broc? He doesn't deserve good equipment? Hmm didn't he get a supercross podium this year before he was injured. The dude flat out flies and is always a lock to win at least one race (Steel City) as long as he is healthy.

I have heard a rumor of Broc and Jeff Cernic teaming up for outdoors..
zookrider62!
Profile picture for user zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
zookrider62! 11/4/2009 11:25am
11/4/2009 11:25am
shaner708 wrote:
Now why did they have to go talk shit on broc? He doesn't deserve good equipment? Hmm didn't he get a supercross podium this year before...
Now why did they have to go talk shit on broc? He doesn't deserve good equipment? Hmm didn't he get a supercross podium this year before he was injured. The dude flat out flies and is always a lock to win at least one race (Steel City) as long as he is healthy.

I have heard a rumor of Broc and Jeff Cernic teaming up for outdoors..
because he hasnt completed a season in years (has he ever completed a season?) and he wants big money. They should have talked badly about him.
oshow
Profile picture for user oshow
Posts
4083
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
oshow 11/4/2009 11:29am
11/4/2009 11:29am
IMO MXA sucks, I don't even buy it in the airport when I don't have anything to read on a long flight. I would rather read People or trash like that.
googs the 2nd 11/4/2009 11:33am
11/4/2009 11:33am Edited Date/Time 11/4/2009 11:34am
MXA is totally spot on...(assuming broc actually said what he said?)
zookrider62!
Profile picture for user zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
zookrider62! 11/4/2009 11:40am
11/4/2009 11:40am Edited Date/Time 11/4/2009 11:45am
googs the 2nd wrote:
MXA is totally spot on...(assuming broc actually said what he said?)
it's quoted from a TW interview
"So you are not even going to bother riding any Supercross?" "No, unless someone has a good bit of money to throw around. If the right money is there maybe I’ll jump aboard. But right now I am just planning on staying in Pennsylvania, and will do some snow and woods riding with some tire studs this winter."
googs the 2nd 11/4/2009 11:56am
11/4/2009 11:56am
shame for broc though , he's a good kid and very talented. Once you get a concussion the chances of getting another greatly increase and so on and so on.

a rest from racing would be a blessing in disguise i think.

Pit Row

See All »
zookrider62!
Profile picture for user zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
zookrider62! 11/4/2009 11:58am
11/4/2009 11:58am
googs the 2nd wrote:
shame for broc though , he's a good kid and very talented. Once you get a concussion the chances of getting another greatly increase and so...
shame for broc though , he's a good kid and very talented. Once you get a concussion the chances of getting another greatly increase and so on and so on.

a rest from racing would be a blessing in disguise i think.
Hasnt he been on rest the last 3 years?
googs the 2nd 11/4/2009 12:01pm
11/4/2009 12:01pm
googs the 2nd wrote:
shame for broc though , he's a good kid and very talented. Once you get a concussion the chances of getting another greatly increase and so...
shame for broc though , he's a good kid and very talented. Once you get a concussion the chances of getting another greatly increase and so on and so on.

a rest from racing would be a blessing in disguise i think.
zookrider62! wrote:
Hasnt he been on rest the last 3 years?
Smile ...not by choice i think......made of glass unfortunately......
Grendel
Profile picture for user Grendel
Posts
2559
Joined
5/17/2008
Location
USA
Grendel 11/4/2009 1:14pm
11/4/2009 1:14pm
Grendel wrote:
No, because he's mean.
GuyB wrote:
You want mean? This is mean. ;) [img]http://www.vitalmx.com/images/stories/2009/11/102309grendel.jpg[/img]
You want mean? This is mean. Wink

Damn that Hill!

This must be that hoodlum Lawrence's influence!
shaner708
Profile picture for user shaner708
Posts
631
Joined
5/27/2009
Location
Export, PA, USA
shaner708 11/4/2009 1:34pm
11/4/2009 1:34pm
zookrider62! wrote:
because he hasnt completed a season in years (has he ever completed a season?) and he wants big money. They should have talked badly about him.
2nd to Stewart in both series his rookie year, won about 3-6 races the next couple. I dont think he meant it like, "If it's not getting me rich I'm gonna take my ball and go home" I think it was meant to say "It's not worth risking the rest of my life unless the money is too much to turn down." That was my take on it
zookrider62!
Profile picture for user zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
zookrider62! 11/4/2009 1:37pm
11/4/2009 1:37pm
zookrider62! wrote:
because he hasnt completed a season in years (has he ever completed a season?) and he wants big money. They should have talked badly about him.
shaner708 wrote:
2nd to Stewart in both series his rookie year, won about 3-6 races the next couple. I dont think he meant it like, "If it's not...
2nd to Stewart in both series his rookie year, won about 3-6 races the next couple. I dont think he meant it like, "If it's not getting me rich I'm gonna take my ball and go home" I think it was meant to say "It's not worth risking the rest of my life unless the money is too much to turn down." That was my take on it
I didnt take it that way, but it makes sense if that is how he meant it.
ISUCK@MX
Profile picture for user ISUCK@MX
Posts
19
Joined
9/25/2009
Location
Sheridan, IN, USA
ISUCK@MX 11/4/2009 1:59pm
11/4/2009 1:59pm
ISUCK@MX wrote:
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion. In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high...
Well, I'm just local yokel slow old fart, but here is my opinion.
In this era, MC, RC, CR, and JS, and others have set high standards. Maybe too high. But they are who the factories look for.
Hell, even if that is too much of a stretch, you won't see Dungey, Pourcel, or Weimer screw it up for themselves. Some kids have it, some don't. The ones that do usually show it early on.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of...
Anyone can understand some "growing pains" or "bad day" but at some point it isn't just youthful mistakes or lackluster results but instead a pattern of behavior. I.E. Josh Hill, JLaw, Hansen, Hamblin...


Time to step aside for guys like Brayton, Hahn, Weimer, Georke ect...


Nerd wrote:
Hey, if Hill goes out and beats all of those guys, should he still not have the ride over those guys?
Anything's possible, but it seems like by the time these kids get to their 2nd or 3rd year pro, you have a pretty good idea of their future, whether it's injuries, attitude or behavior.
Chronic injury is the saddest, 'cause the other two are entirely within their control.
swizcore
Profile picture for user swizcore
Posts
4234
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Fenton, MI, USA
swizcore 11/4/2009 2:33pm
11/4/2009 2:33pm
My biggest dispute with the MXA opinion is that just because Hill had a 6 figure contract he should at least "act" like a responsible adult.

How exactly is he supposed to act like one when he isn't one?

Sociopath's "act" like normal people, I'd rather see a person be real and progress naturally than a temporary period pretending to be something they're not resulting in the inevitable breakdown.

A lucrative contract doesnt equate to life experience and a nobility which suddenly changes your decision making abilities.

Oh and he was hanging out with JLaw before his SX win so that point is moot.
yosmithy
Profile picture for user yosmithy
Posts
770
Joined
10/29/2006
Location
Austin, TX, USA
yosmithy 11/4/2009 2:39pm
11/4/2009 2:39pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 6:46pm
I agree with most of MXA'a points, but didn't really get why they felt the need to slap nerd around while trying to make their points.

Nerdy, did you peepee in their Wheaties lately?
Motodrew295
Profile picture for user Motodrew295
Posts
1025
Joined
5/2/2008
Location
Kennewick, WA, USA
Motodrew295 11/4/2009 2:44pm
11/4/2009 2:44pm
zookrider62! wrote:
because he hasnt completed a season in years (has he ever completed a season?) and he wants big money. They should have talked badly about him.
shaner708 wrote:
2nd to Stewart in both series his rookie year, won about 3-6 races the next couple. I dont think he meant it like, "If it's not...
2nd to Stewart in both series his rookie year, won about 3-6 races the next couple. I dont think he meant it like, "If it's not getting me rich I'm gonna take my ball and go home" I think it was meant to say "It's not worth risking the rest of my life unless the money is too much to turn down." That was my take on it
Perfectly said. I dont think its an issue of greed, rather he basically posed a hypothetical about a large chunk being thrown down he would go for it, otherwise it's not worth the risk since his career is at a fragile stage right now.
googs the 2nd 11/4/2009 4:23pm
11/4/2009 4:23pm
zookrider62! wrote:
because he hasnt completed a season in years (has he ever completed a season?) and he wants big money. They should have talked badly about him.
shaner708 wrote:
2nd to Stewart in both series his rookie year, won about 3-6 races the next couple. I dont think he meant it like, "If it's not...
2nd to Stewart in both series his rookie year, won about 3-6 races the next couple. I dont think he meant it like, "If it's not getting me rich I'm gonna take my ball and go home" I think it was meant to say "It's not worth risking the rest of my life unless the money is too much to turn down." That was my take on it
Motodrew295 wrote:
Perfectly said. I dont think its an issue of greed, rather he basically posed a hypothetical about a large chunk being thrown down he would go...
Perfectly said. I dont think its an issue of greed, rather he basically posed a hypothetical about a large chunk being thrown down he would go for it, otherwise it's not worth the risk since his career is at a fragile stage right now.
so its a context thing again!...

makes sense, he seems like too nice a guy to talk smack........
Matthes
Profile picture for user Matthes
Posts
2755
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Matthes 11/4/2009 4:43pm
11/4/2009 4:43pm
Motodrew295 wrote:
Perfectly said. I dont think its an issue of greed, rather he basically posed a hypothetical about a large chunk being thrown down he would go...
Perfectly said. I dont think its an issue of greed, rather he basically posed a hypothetical about a large chunk being thrown down he would go for it, otherwise it's not worth the risk since his career is at a fragile stage right now.
Nice! I made someones signature....my life is complete.
RACEGUY
Profile picture for user RACEGUY
Posts
1893
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
Moncton, CA
RACEGUY 11/4/2009 4:55pm
11/4/2009 4:55pm
Motodrew295 wrote:
Perfectly said. I dont think its an issue of greed, rather he basically posed a hypothetical about a large chunk being thrown down he would go...
Perfectly said. I dont think its an issue of greed, rather he basically posed a hypothetical about a large chunk being thrown down he would go for it, otherwise it's not worth the risk since his career is at a fragile stage right now.
Matthes wrote:
Nice! I made someones signature....my life is complete.
Almost immortal. ... Like Cox!Wink

Post a reply to: "Steve [cox] is wrong on a few counts"