Chadwick Motorcycle/ATV Use Area in Missouri

SxS's are good for nothing

Trust me I get it guys are bummed they'll lose nice woods to look at. But it'll have a way better impact and be safer in the long run. They'll gain money from it and also get a bigger and new audience there. Not all loggers are bad and about money. If they were about money they wouldn't be in logging. Some tell the truth. Not every logger is a varner or fcr. Another big thing is not all loggers trash the woods either.  The majority of jobs I do people want branches and tops all on the ground with nothing above. I also won't tear your property apart with giant ruts. No reputable logger will do that. Its next to impossible not to tear the ground up some during the spring in the wet season. But that's why the reputable guys come back thru and fix it. But the biggest thing is you can't be mad at someone for the choices they make on their own property. 

But this is what he asked and I answered. 

"Please explain how old growth trees are bad for the environment. This makes zero sense to me, how did any forest ever survive back when trees were allowed to live hundreds to even thousands of years. Old growth trees in Chadwick aren't even 100 years old yet."

Interesting conversation here. 
 

Farmer J, I’m certainly not a logger, but I was thinking the science on old growth’s have changed quite a bit in the past 30 years? In regards to the mycelium network under the forest floor, essentially sharing nutrients to the entire forest eco-system, making top soil, & aiding in water management (old growths are said to be able to soak up a lot more rain).

Don’t call me Suzy here, but it seems to me the conversation you two are having is more about whether or not we should continue having an income based economy that hinges on resource extraction. 

I get it, woods gotta come from somewhere. People can do whatever they want with their land, but it is a little sad when a nice woods gets logged and because the canopy is gone the first thing to take root is poison ivy and all sorts of thorn bushes until a canopy regrows which is usually more than 10 years. I may not be a professional forester but I've spent alot of my life in lots of forest and observing how they grow is something I like to pay attention to. 

This is national forest land, and places like this aren't going to get easier to come by in the future.

No, it's about having a nice place to ride,  but there's alot of angles to look at it from. Plus a little information if anyone is thinking of selling their trees on their property. 

Hardwoods are flourishing now more than ever. The loggers can't and won't be able to keep up with harvesting them now. More forest lands are being protected and can't get harvested. With the path we're on they'll be a lot easier to come by in the future. In Indiana they have a forest that's dedicated to white oak for a navy battle ship. 

Forests are healthier than ever thanks to management like this. 

I don't personally have forestry management experience, logging is an essential and hard job, and I'm glad you own some ground, but you're simply wrong about old growth. It's not about the number of plants, it's about what kind of plants/animals that flourish under a larger old growth canopy. Source: my fiance with multiple biology degrees who has spent a lot of days/nights crawling through Appalachian forests doing plant and animal surveys and has worked for the forest service in the past.

Anyway, does this even pertain to the riding area in question?

Been there-seen that too many times. You are wrong. What's even worse than the USFS (I'm talking Federal, not State) is the fact that they mostly spend more US taxpayer revenue making roads, drainage and water breaks on logging projects than they take in from the logging permits. What's even more pathetic is they use the same excuses as you stated to cut down supposedly "protected" old growth forest that have been there a lot longer than even our great grandparents ever lived. 

It also stresses the wildlife and ruins any trail system that runs through it so IMO your claim that this is good for the forest, animals and trail users is total horseshit. To the government they care nothing about protecting the forest and everything about corporate logging companies giving nice lucrative campaign donations. I've been personally involved with these situations so I'm not just talking out of my ass.  

It's not about the trees growing, it's about having public land thats open for riding and keeping those areas in nice condition, thats whats not going to get easier to come by. Like you said there's lots of trees growing on private land, why log the national forest? Like I said, the logging is part of the story here, and making the area more accommodating to side by sides is the rest of the story. The land managers are probably arguing that establishing these wider trails would allow better access for maintenance and rescue operations which is true. And like I said above, this could become important for keeping the area open for riding, but it comes with more knuckleheads ripping around in cages. 

Since my claim is such horse shit and it stresses animals why do deer follow us around and eat the tops? I've watched them watch trees drop and come eat the tops as soon as I'm onto the next. I bet you're a great hunter and outdoorsman also. 

I'll just let all you experts make claims and throw fits over land that isn't even yours. Since you guys all know more than me about something I've been around my whole life and do daily. 

The common theme when it comes to the environment is "you are the problem" and its certainly not me or the activities I enjoy

We can all fire up the Google machine and search til we find something that validates whatever opinion we have.

I’d argue to say it is our land as tax payers, considering it’s US Gov land. 
 

As for Chadwick I grew up riding there, I’ve probably been there 100+ times and know many people who have ridden there long before I’ve been alive. Most of us on two wheels ride the unmarked single track because all the marked trails have been been beaten to all get out by atvs. A single track trail can be ridden for 10+ years and still only be a few tire widths wide and have minimal rutting, yet if you read the scope that’s one of their focuses on shutting down. I can’t imagine how the trails they convert to SxS compatible will turn out…

I am a member at Cloud 9, and in 5-7 years, I've seen those trails go from tight, to wide open freeways...with the boom of 'bigger/wider' sxs. Having a 4 seater myself, I can ride 100 miles on a weekend and not have to back up for a corner one time. I've been a member there for 15+ years...and it's definitely changed. Even with the trails wider, it's still fun!

Well then, who does the land belong to smart guy if it is actually "PUBLIC lands"?? As for hunting, I used to like coon, deer, dove and squirrel hunting but have not set out with my rifle or shotgun to do so in a long time.

Your claim is horse shit, like it or not. A deer is an animal. They are going to "follow" whatever to get to a food source. I've also helped logging and I really enjoy it. I like to burn wood in the winter so anytime someone ask me to fell a hardwood I'm more than glad to take it down so I'm no tree hugger by any means.

I actually went up against the federal government for making trails on PUBLIC lands where I supposedly was breaking their laws. All I can say is the Feds bitched slapped me around pretty damn hard and showed me that one little redneck was no match for the Federal corrupt machine. The pathetic part is 1 1/2 years after I got busted and hit hard with fines, probation and barred from being on any federal lands until I completed my fed mandated community service hours, they sold the timber rights to a big timber corporation, and then cut down the whole fucking forest I got busted for disturbing with a single track ?!? Again, who actually owns the public lands in this country? I really want your answer on this one!!  

You sound like a medical rep

I have as much respect for loggers as I do lawyers, you can guess how much that is. My group lost about 800 acres of prime single track to logging. A couple of us went back a year later and the place looked like an apocalypse had happened. Waist deep skidder ruts everywhere, rain erosion ruts, I'd estimate at least 100 5gal empty buckets of hydraulic fluid left all over the place, skidder tires, and one burnt up loader they just left. Appeared it caught fire so they left it there. You can stick that ''logging is better for the environment" straight up your ass.

Also, the only time these "tree huggers" give a shit about the environment is when it aligns with there agenda. Someone mentions clearing land for a new walmart or subdivision and its oh well about trees and animals. Money and greed pretty much rule the world.

Don't let them log the area they do that shit here on dnr land and it ruins the trail for a long time afterwards. To where it's not the same afterwards. Looks like a waste land.  Trying to reclaim it afterwards is a bitch. Debris stumps everywhere holes ditches. 

Sxs's can piss off they got some trails closed down around here. Rode down some dual track not for sxs's and went around bridges trough water crossings. 

They did some logging around Monarch Pass and also on Brewery Hill in Breckenridge, here in Colorado, and I'm not sure about the benefits, but man it sure is ugly compared to what it used to be.  Luckily wood is a renewable resource, it just takes a looong time.

For cutting down trees or against it……whatever. Side x sides will tear this place apart. Not knocking side x sides but they have their own areas to ride. Not on our single track. 

I’ve been riding this place since I was a kid. Take 5 minutes out of your day and respond to the link on the first page and try to help us save our riding spot.

Next time it could be your riding area. 

I'm LOLing at anyone who thinks the USFS is all about logging...

And Farmer Jack....you flat landers barely qualify as loggers compared to the bad asses that log the Real Mountains out here in the West...I spent Summers in College hooking on a line machine, real man shit.  You hardwoods loggers will always be wannabes compared to us.

That is no bullshit. I've seen the logging up your way (Bellingham, WA) and those guys are like the kamikaze pilots of WW2. Totally nuts.  You get up towards Squamish BC and you get a mixture of alcoholics, mentally disturbed and just plain crazy with the loggers which makes for wild situations with guys ripping mountainsides with chainsaws, chokers and helicopters lol. 

They are at it again with a similar proposal:

Dear Neighbors and Interested Parties:

The Ava/Cassville/Willow Springs Ranger District seeks your comments on proposed actions for the Chadwick Project.  The purpose of this letter is to inform interested and affected parties of our proposed management activities and to solicit public comments on the proposal.  The information package titled Chadwick Project – Draft Environmental Assessment is now available for review.

The Chadwick Project is located on approximately 6,525 acres of National Forest System lands within the western portion of the Ava/Cassville/Willow Springs Unit of the Mark Twain National Forest (MTNF).  The legal description for the area is T26N, R20W, Sections 24-27 and 33-36, and T25N, R20W, Sections 2-4, 8-11, and 16, Fifth Principal Meridian, Christian County, Missouri.  The project area is located about 4.3 miles southwest of Chadwick, Missouri, and approximately 30 miles southeast of Springfield, Missouri, and is bounded by Highway H on the east side, Red Bridge Road on the south side, and the ATV park boundary to the north and west.

The Mark Twain National Forest’s primary objectives for the Chadwick project are to address a gradual decline in forest health and safety on the existing designated trail system, clear up the road system, eliminate user-created trails, improve developed recreation infrastructure, and provide a plan of action for the Chadwick trail system and use area for the next ten years.  Public comments during initial scoping and a public meeting led to development of a new proposed action and development of a new alternative.  Details are in the draft Environmental Assessment.

A project-specific Forest Plan amendment may be necessary to complete proposed management activities, as follows:

Use recreation trails as skid trails or temporary logging road.  This project specific amendment to the forest wide standard of page 2-31 paragraphs 5 and 6 of the 2005 Forest Plan would allow timber to be harvested in areas with dense recreation trails on the most suitable terrain in the area.  This action would also allow the Forest Service to use these skid trails or temporary logging roads to make needed improvements to the trails themselves once harvesting is accomplished.

Place log landings within 100 feet of a recreation trail.  This project specific amendment to the forest wide standard of page 2-32 paragraph 4 of the 2005 Forest Plan would allow timber to be harvested in areas with dense recreation trails on the most suitable terrain in the area.  This action would also allow slash to be piled within 100 feet of recreation trails on Forest Service land.  This slash would later be used to limit access by motorized vehicles to the forest around the trail.

The Public Comment Package contains more information.  The District Ranger for Ava/Cassville/Willow Springs District and the Responsible Official for this project, is using the discretion given in 36 CFR 218.24(a)(2) in determining that this is the most effective time to provide notice of the opportunity to comment under 36 CFR 218.22.  Your comments will be reviewed for consideration before the Environmental Assessment is completed and a final decision on the project proposed action and alternatives is made.  The documents and associated maps are available on the Projects webpage at: https://www.fs.usda.gov/projects/mtnf/landmanagement/projects.  The document describes the project’s proposed action and potential alternatives identified by the project interdisciplinary team.

Comments on this proposal will be accepted for 30 calendar days following the publication of this notice in the Phelps County Focus.  If the 30th day falls on a weekend or federal holiday, the comment period ends the next business day.  The publication date in this newspaper of record is the exclusive means for calculating the comment period for this analysis.  Comments become part of the public record.  Written comments should be submitted to Cody Lunsford, District Ranger, Ava/Cassville/Willow Springs Ranger District, 1006 S. Jefferson St, Ava, Missouri 65608. 

Comments can also be submitted via the Comment Analysis and Response Application (CARA), which is available from the project webpage at https://www.fs.usda.gov/projects/mtnf/landmanagement/projects.  Scroll down to the Chadwick Recreation Area Project, click on “View Project”, and then click on “Comment/Object on Project”.  Electronic comments and attachments must be submitted in a format such as an email message, plain text (.txt), rich text format (.rtf), Adobe (.pdf) or Word (.doc).

The comment and objection procedure for this project will follow 36 CFR 218 Parts A and B.  Only those who submit timely “specific written comments” during any designated opportunity for public participation, specifically this combined scoping period and 30-day comment period, will be eligible to file an objection based on the final analysis and a draft decision document.  For the purposes of this rule, “specific written comments” should be within the scope of the proposed action, have a direct relationship to the proposed action, and must include supporting reasons for the responsible official to consider (36 CFR 218.2).

Other eligibility requirements are identified at 36 CFR 218.25(a)(3) and include name, postal address, title of the project, identity of the individual or entity who authored the comments, and signature or other verification of identity upon request.  If you do not wish to provide comments at this time but wish to receive notification when the draft Decision Notice is available, please let us know. 

If you would like to request a hard copy of the comment package, or if you have questions about the proposal or need additional information, please come by the Ava Ranger District office at 1006 S. Jefferson St., Ava, Missouri 65608, or contact Cody Lunsford by telephone at (417) 683-4428, or via email at cody.lunsford@usda.gov. 

We appreciate your interest in the management of the Mark Twain National Forest.

Sincerely,

 
Lenore Lamb
Acting Forest Supervisor

Enclosures (2)

cc:

Cody Lunsford

Tray Hall

Michael Lewis

More info here:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/mtnf/?project=63131

Chadwick Project
Draft Environmental Assessment
Project Number 63131
https://usfs-public.app.box.com/v/PinyonPublic/file/1525800717183

It's a large draft. I tried reading through it but it's going to take me printing it out and highlighting things. I live 200 miles away but I might have to drop what I'm doing and go to the project meeting. 

I'm sick of seeing good places to ride become UTV areas

https://usfs-public.app.box.com/v/PinyonPublic/file/1525798523182