Stark Varg Reviews

The real Sasquatch wrote:

 Why would they need to charge 100 bikes at a time?   Lets assume the Varg can go 25 minutes at Pro speed.  a lot of C...

 Why would they need to charge 100 bikes at a time?   Lets assume the Varg can go 25 minutes at Pro speed.  a lot of C class and vet racers could possible get practice and a Moto , maybe 2 out of a charge. How often do you fill your tank? Its been a longtime since I raced , but I could do my practice , and  2 motos at southwick on a single tank on my 450 in the B class. 3 laps practice, 4 lap first moto and 20 plus 2 second moto.  So if a Emx bike has a similar range you wouldn't need to charge from 0 to 100% for many people. 

And I do not have a real idea as far as the amount of panels it would take. But like I said, if you have a solar farm , you would have a connection to the grid. So maybe the meter spins backwards on off days and you pull power on race days. either way you have the connection to the grid power  to supplement the solar and have that beefy grid connection to handle  the power that would be needed to charge the bikes.

 

I think that by the time there are that many electric MX bikes at a track , the charging speeds will be much faster than now.  I think the average racer might top off their charge and might just need to go from 40% to 75% to be able to run their motos.  You do not need to go from empty to 100% every time you charge. They do not have the memory issues nicads do. 

I imagine that the amount of power it takes to charge a EMX bike up would be less than a Tesla model 3. Which costs $10-$15 to charge from close to 0 to 100% at my rates at my shop.  If you charged $20 per day or $10 per charge  for charging acces that should be profitable if your able to get a solar farm and the grid connection in for free or be paid for it.  There are so many things that will cost less with electric, and some that will cost more. When I was working for a developer the power company would give us the wire for free to run the underground power in the new roads and also to the houses. They charged for poles, but if we dug and buried the wire it was free.     

I know that less can be more. But I am lazy and just type my thoughts out as they come through my head. And if you do not hate electric bikes then your not a hater of electric bikes.So wouldn't that not apply to you? 

Hasn't Brian ridden a production Varg?  

 

I think that most of the electric haters have never ridden or driven a performance electric vehicle and are going off of 3rd party info. Of course range and charging speed will be issues at first. But like I've said a million times, todays EV's will not be tomorrow's EV's and for EV's to overtake Gas and Diesel they will have to have longer range and quicker charging speeds to be viable for some of the market. 

 

Look at the price of any new electronic tech when it first came out VS at its peak use and end of life cycle. VCR's were $400 in the 1980's when they first came out and by the time they died off you could get a new VCR/DVD combo for $79.99.  Camcorders, $1000+  at first around the sametime. now you can get a camera with better image quality and more storage space for $60 or less.  Big screen TV's   same thing. 3or 4K for a 65" now you can get one for $299.   If and when bigger manufactures like Honda get into electric they will be able to share so much more between models as far as powertrain and then the cost goes way down to produce the bikes. As soon as somebody is able to make a competitive EMX bike  the clock starts to a countdown to when the prices can be half of what they are to begin with. All it takes is one company to do it and the others will have to also.  The motors could be shared across  all types of vehicles if they design them from the start to be able to work that way. Have 5 motors that could handle the entire range of bikes,atv's and UTV's  maybe even extend into cars by using multiple motors and or in wheel motors. 

 

I hope they can start delivering bikes soon so we can all see how they really are.  And remember no matter how good the Varg is, its just the start.  Its kinda like the YZ426 where the 400 was the Alta.  And then compared to todays 450's. The Varg may not be the bike of tomorrow, it might be, But if its close, it will be the spark that started to epower revolution.

PS. I'm slowly working towards filling an entire page with  single reply. LOL, just kidding, or am I......  

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Curious. Was it a comfort thing? Would it have made a difference if it was setup like a MTB bike? 

ML512 wrote:

I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really...

I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really didn't like it.

soggy wrote:

Do you ride mtn bikes often?  It seems like one of those things you’d get used to after a little while riding with it. I have...

Do you ride mtn bikes often?  It seems like one of those things you’d get used to after a little while riding with it. I have no experience with it on a moto but the benefits seem undeniable once you get accustomed to it. 

ML512 wrote:

On and off, but yes, plenty over the years. I've never been able to utilize a rear brake on a mountain bike in the ways I...

On and off, but yes, plenty over the years. I've never been able to utilize a rear brake on a mountain bike in the ways I can on a dirt bike. I have spent endless amounts more time on a dirtbike though...

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Curious. Was it a comfort thing? Would it have made a difference if it was setup like a MTB bike? 

ML512 wrote:

Setup like a MTB? In terms of which was on which side? I've ridden both on moto, didn't like either. It's a mental thing, I know...

Setup like a MTB? In terms of which was on which side? I've ridden both on moto, didn't like either. It's a mental thing, I know how to pivot a bike off a pedal feel and how to use my legs in conjunction with that. With the lever up top, I couldn't utilize it in the same way. I also found myself over-using the rear brake when it was on the handlebars. I was better at staying off it when it was a pedal. It takes more effort to move the foot. Also, something about sensations through the foot being what I'm used it, I had earlier signs of when to get off of it or press it harder from what I could feel the rear end doing. Basically, I did everything worse with it on the bars.

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Curious. Was it a comfort thing? Would it have made a difference if it was setup like a MTB bike? 

ML512 wrote:

Setup like a MTB? In terms of which was on which side? I've ridden both on moto, didn't like either. It's a mental thing, I know...

Setup like a MTB? In terms of which was on which side? I've ridden both on moto, didn't like either. It's a mental thing, I know how to pivot a bike off a pedal feel and how to use my legs in conjunction with that. With the lever up top, I couldn't utilize it in the same way. I also found myself over-using the rear brake when it was on the handlebars. I was better at staying off it when it was a pedal. It takes more effort to move the foot. Also, something about sensations through the foot being what I'm used it, I had earlier signs of when to get off of it or press it harder from what I could feel the rear end doing. Basically, I did everything worse with it on the bars.

avidchimp wrote:

I got to ride a 2022 CRF450 with a Rekluse and front brake on the left side of bars and back on right and I fell...

I got to ride a 2022 CRF450 with a Rekluse and front brake on the left side of bars and back on right and I fell in love. I spent so much more time riding bmx/mtb growing up it was natural. To this day I am terribly inefficient with a standard rear brake.

ML512 wrote:

I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really...

I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really didn't like it.

Titan1 wrote:

An hour long?  Someone let me know the minute mark to the battery life, and how many bikes are assembled and ready to be shipped. 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

Titan1 wrote:

I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.   Im...

I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.

 

Im not an electric hater…I own an electric dirt bike. And I love it…except the range.  

lostboy819 wrote:

Can you imagine talking to him in person, I bet he never shuts up   I give him a thumbs down for every post over 5 lines...

Can you imagine talking to him in person, I bet he never shuts up   I give him a thumbs down for every post over 5 lines long so 95% of his ramblings gets the thumbs down even if I bail on reading more than a couple lines. 

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Yeah. I meant with the rear brake on the right side of the bars and the front brake on the left side of the bars. 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

The generator idea was more of an in between idea.   The battery chargers for outdoor power equipment already exist . If the range is similar to...

The generator idea was more of an in between idea.   The battery chargers for outdoor power equipment already exist . If the range is similar to a full tank of gas on a 450. Many local racers do not even need to top off their tanks. I do not think you will see all electric until the range is similar .What is the % of riders who ride at top pro level speeds ?  Those would be the guys that will have trouble with Electric.  I think that Electric will be a bottom up revolution instead of the top down way that 4 strokes came in.  Electric range , if the Varg is close to what they say it is,, will work for many of the racers out there already when combined with a generator  gas or battery/solar powered. So the C and B class racers, the Vet racers , the smaller displacement bikes. Those will be the first to be able to go all electric with the current batteries and available power storage systems. 

Getting Electric into the Pro level racing is going to take more time. You will have pushback from all of the companies without e bikes( like you see with 2 strokes now). The batteries will keep developing and by the time  there are enough brands of electric bikes to not oppose them from being let into Pro racing there will be some basic infrastructure already in place at local tracks .

 

If they could get the charge time down to 10 minutes. And each race was 20 minutes. Put 50 chargers in down by the gate in stageing. When you go to the gate you plug in. They could setup the charger's so that it would alert you to go to the gate in the order your gate pick was.  Yes its not like it is now, But  local races are normally getting staged as the other race is on the track. So you might  have to get the the line 10 minutes sooner.  That would be a way of getting a work around in place  if they can get the bike batteries to charge as fast as the power tool batteries I've seen for Mowers and blowers.  By the time you have racers that will need to recharge from dead to full, in between motos ( if the Varg has similar range to a full tank on a 450) I would think the fast charging should be close. 

 

The battery powered fast chargers would not be the giant trailers. They would only need to have enough power to recharge 3 or 4 times  max. If a full charge is similar to the range of a full tank, for pro level racers to do 4 30+ 2 moto's on 1 bike.  And I am just a guy that sees how electric powered MX bikes can be fun, can solve some issues at smaller tracks built inside or in built up areas. I have knocked many IQ points off my score with all of the hits to my head. SO I imagine all the smart guys that stand to make million on these machines can come up with some better ideas than I have.  Maybe You could show everybody how smart you are by figuring out how to do what you feel is impossible? Because if gas goes away like you say, and Electric is the only option, killing off electric MX bikes will only kill the sport.  

Titan1 wrote:

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport...

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport like structures with solar panels on them? Massive generator?

 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

ML512 wrote:

Couldn't stand the handlebar rear brake when I tried one. A game changer would be a very personal opinion there.

theycallmeebryan wrote:

What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the...

What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the Varg i had a much different experience and was shocked how good it was.

Sandusky26 wrote:

 This is what a DeWalt battery did to my parents garage last night.

 This is what a DeWalt battery did to my parents garage last night.

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Damn, that sux.

Sandusky26 wrote:

Could have been much worse, nothing super valuable was damaged and my parents have insurance. One window, 5 studs, 1 sheet of osb, some wiring and...

Could have been much worse, nothing super valuable was damaged and my parents have insurance. One window, 5 studs, 1 sheet of osb, some wiring and couple coats of Kilz and were dialed.

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Yeah. I meant with the rear brake on the right side of the bars and the front brake on the left side of the bars. 

RGaede wrote:

I actually dislike the front brake on the left of stock mtbs.  Every mtb i get the first "mod" when it gets home is to swap...

I actually dislike the front brake on the left of stock mtbs.  Every mtb i get the first "mod" when it gets home is to swap the brakes!

Cobbler wrote:

Dang a guy comes in and is a touch long winded but adding to the discussion and you guys bash him like that? That sucks.. Nobody...

Dang a guy comes in and is a touch long winded but adding to the discussion and you guys bash him like that? That sucks.. Nobody is making you read it but be polite jeez..

Cobbler wrote:

Dang a guy comes in and is a touch long winded but adding to the discussion and you guys bash him like that? That sucks.. Nobody...

Dang a guy comes in and is a touch long winded but adding to the discussion and you guys bash him like that? That sucks.. Nobody is making you read it but be polite jeez..

Titan1 wrote:

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport...

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport like structures with solar panels on them? Massive generator?

 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

semifreeguy wrote:

I don't know what kind of Tony Stark fantasy world you are living in but that solar field bit you just spewed is tragically laughable. 

number six wrote:

What's the run time on that .. will it cut threads for 30 + 2, with a sight lap & a red flag restart ?   ...

What's the run time on that .. will it cut threads for 30 + 2, with a sight lap & a red flag restart ?