Knees over toes guy.

McG194
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Palm Coast, FL, USA

Has anyone ever tried his workouts for knee pain?

I'm bone on bone with some pretty good arthritis in my knee. I pretty much can't do lunges and if I kneel down, I need to push myself back up with my hands. Biggest problem is if I try standing while I ride, I can't walk the next day. 

I have an appointment with my knee doctor in a couple weeks to see how much worse it is and he's probably going to suggest replacement again. Of course, I want stock parts as long as possible so I'm looking at alternative methods. It seems like this is for people with knee injuries and I'm not sure how good it is for degenerative issues. I did go for a walk with the wife yesterday and did about 10 minutes backwards and I feel something in my knees today, but it isn't pain. I do know that when you deal with knees like mine you make compensations, and it ends up weakening all the muscles around it. 

 

 

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TeamGreen
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4/3/2023 9:15am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2023 3:59pm

Great subject for those of us weighing “Stock v. Modified”

Laughing

4
Cobbler
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4/3/2023 10:53am

Yes*

 

*For people with healthy legs.

You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you should fully buy into their treatment and stick to it.

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3
McG194
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4/3/2023 11:32am
Cobbler wrote:
Yes*   *For people with healthy legs. You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you...

Yes*

 

*For people with healthy legs.

You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you should fully buy into their treatment and stick to it.

I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in. 

I think a lot of the issues we have are brought on by lifestyle and everything that goes with it. I've always been a heavy trainer but I have neglected the supporting muscles leading to bad results. I could still get on a leg press and rep over 1000 pounds with properly wrapped knees. I know one of my problems is all of the supporting muscles are much weaker in proportion. 

4
Deadric
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Walden, CO, USA
4/3/2023 11:35am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2023 11:38am

I've had my knee looked at by 3 (soon to be 4) different doctors, so far they've all taken Xrays and say theres nothing wrong that they can see. They gave me Meloxicam and said its probably just Jumpers Knee and send me on my way. Anytime I do something squat related my left knee feels like theres a bunch of pressure behind the knee cap with sharp pain, had the issue for 3 years now. Still no luck in finding the issue.

I can't remember the name of it (Zero program) but I did this guys baseline program for 3 months. My legs/knees/ankles are absolutely stronger and I've done really good increasing my lower body flexibility following the program, no doubt about it. Its done nothing to help my knee pain though. Doesnt mean it wont work for you though. 

1

The Shop

blaster99
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Fantasy
4/3/2023 11:36am

My knees suck, and I have done the work out that he details in his knee ability zero book. I have noticed some improvements, but I'm not too consistent with doing these work outs. I feel like I have more range of motion with less pain. Its worth the $25 and the time it takes to read for sure.

Cobbler
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cairo, IL, USA
4/3/2023 11:36am
Cobbler wrote:
Yes*   *For people with healthy legs. You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you...

Yes*

 

*For people with healthy legs.

You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you should fully buy into their treatment and stick to it.

McG194 wrote:
I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in.  I...

I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in. 

I think a lot of the issues we have are brought on by lifestyle and everything that goes with it. I've always been a heavy trainer but I have neglected the supporting muscles leading to bad results. I could still get on a leg press and rep over 1000 pounds with properly wrapped knees. I know one of my problems is all of the supporting muscles are much weaker in proportion. 

1000 pound leg press? I just figured out why you’re knees are blowed out lol. 
 

anyways, you have to navigate that water on your own. You have to assess yourself too. If you think you have the knee health to strengthen what’s weak, then I would be looking into that kind of thing. No offense but that might be a missed exit. I don’t know. If you don’t have the right stuff, you’ll hurt yourself more. 

4
MxProdigy17
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Brick, NJ, USA
4/3/2023 11:41am

Yes I bought into the program a few months back. I am about a year and a half post op on ACL and Meniscus and have been dealing with real bad tendonitis in the front of my knee. I definitely would recommend you giving it a shot. If knee replacement is in your future you don't have a whole lot to lose.

2
McG194
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4/3/2023 11:56am
Deadric wrote:
I've had my knee looked at by 3 (soon to be 4) different doctors, so far they've all taken Xrays and say theres nothing wrong that...

I've had my knee looked at by 3 (soon to be 4) different doctors, so far they've all taken Xrays and say theres nothing wrong that they can see. They gave me Meloxicam and said its probably just Jumpers Knee and send me on my way. Anytime I do something squat related my left knee feels like theres a bunch of pressure behind the knee cap with sharp pain, had the issue for 3 years now. Still no luck in finding the issue.

I can't remember the name of it (Zero program) but I did this guys baseline program for 3 months. My legs/knees/ankles are absolutely stronger and I've done really good increasing my lower body flexibility following the program, no doubt about it. Its done nothing to help my knee pain though. Doesnt mean it wont work for you though. 

I always had pain in the back of my knee like you mention. When I would ride a sport bike with rearset pegs I noticed that I would get bad pain back there. When I was diagnosed with arthritis my doctor said that was the cause. I was dealing with it even in my early 20's. I just didn't know I was. 

McG194
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4/3/2023 11:58am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2023 12:02pm
Cobbler wrote:
Yes*   *For people with healthy legs. You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you...

Yes*

 

*For people with healthy legs.

You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you should fully buy into their treatment and stick to it.

McG194 wrote:
I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in.  I...

I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in. 

I think a lot of the issues we have are brought on by lifestyle and everything that goes with it. I've always been a heavy trainer but I have neglected the supporting muscles leading to bad results. I could still get on a leg press and rep over 1000 pounds with properly wrapped knees. I know one of my problems is all of the supporting muscles are much weaker in proportion. 

Cobbler wrote:
1000 pound leg press? I just figured out why you’re knees are blowed out lol.    anyways, you have to navigate that water on your own...

1000 pound leg press? I just figured out why you’re knees are blowed out lol. 
 

anyways, you have to navigate that water on your own. You have to assess yourself too. If you think you have the knee health to strengthen what’s weak, then I would be looking into that kind of thing. No offense but that might be a missed exit. I don’t know. If you don’t have the right stuff, you’ll hurt yourself more. 

Did I mention that I was always somewhat of a meathead? lol

Don't debate, add more weight. More plates = More dates. 

Funny thing is I've always been able to push a lot on the leg press. Load up each side with as many 45's as it will hold but I never did well with squats. A little over 5 years ago when I was 49 years old I really worked on it and got my squat up to 315 pounds. Then I injured myself doing something else and I think I lost all the helper muscle strength. 

McG194
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4/3/2023 11:59am
Yes I bought into the program a few months back. I am about a year and a half post op on ACL and Meniscus and have...

Yes I bought into the program a few months back. I am about a year and a half post op on ACL and Meniscus and have been dealing with real bad tendonitis in the front of my knee. I definitely would recommend you giving it a shot. If knee replacement is in your future you don't have a whole lot to lose.

What do I have to lose is kind of my opinion. If it works great and if it doesn't, I've just strengthened my legs a bit. 

sandman768
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Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
4/3/2023 12:05pm

My right knee in the same condition, bone on bone, no meniscus left on inside of knee. ACL surgery 12-13 years ago. ACL is now hanging by a thread. Tweaked it riding 3 months ago, seen Ortho, X-rays confirmed bone on bone. Ortho gave me Gelsyn shots for 3 weeks, took a Month off from riding and did weights & bicycling. Knee felt better, back to riding MX & off road, but some days are better than others. I”m 100% sure if I stopped riding my knee would be tolerable but that’s not happening. The one thing that usually makes my knees feel better is bicycling… Knee replacement is in my future, just prolonging it as long as possible. Ortho also prescribed Meloxicam but it seemed to bother my stomach and the list of side effects looks scary. 

2
Cobbler
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cairo, IL, USA
4/3/2023 12:13pm
McG194 wrote:
I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in.  I...

I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in. 

I think a lot of the issues we have are brought on by lifestyle and everything that goes with it. I've always been a heavy trainer but I have neglected the supporting muscles leading to bad results. I could still get on a leg press and rep over 1000 pounds with properly wrapped knees. I know one of my problems is all of the supporting muscles are much weaker in proportion. 

Cobbler wrote:
1000 pound leg press? I just figured out why you’re knees are blowed out lol.    anyways, you have to navigate that water on your own...

1000 pound leg press? I just figured out why you’re knees are blowed out lol. 
 

anyways, you have to navigate that water on your own. You have to assess yourself too. If you think you have the knee health to strengthen what’s weak, then I would be looking into that kind of thing. No offense but that might be a missed exit. I don’t know. If you don’t have the right stuff, you’ll hurt yourself more. 

McG194 wrote:
Did I mention that I was always somewhat of a meathead? lol Don't debate, add more weight. More plates = More dates.  Funny thing is I've...

Did I mention that I was always somewhat of a meathead? lol

Don't debate, add more weight. More plates = More dates. 

Funny thing is I've always been able to push a lot on the leg press. Load up each side with as many 45's as it will hold but I never did well with squats. A little over 5 years ago when I was 49 years old I really worked on it and got my squat up to 315 pounds. Then I injured myself doing something else and I think I lost all the helper muscle strength. 

I was squatting 485 for a working set the other day and bench into the 300’s while still being 212 pounds. Plus I’m in marathon prep. Point is, I don’t think I’ve ever used a leg press like that. Ever. It’s not for that. That’s not what you use a leg press for. Just remember if you find yourself wrapping up for a machine, it’s time to reevaluate. 
 

more plates = more pain unless your body is up for it. 

1
1
Cobbler
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cairo, IL, USA
4/3/2023 12:19pm
Deadric wrote:
I've had my knee looked at by 3 (soon to be 4) different doctors, so far they've all taken Xrays and say theres nothing wrong that...

I've had my knee looked at by 3 (soon to be 4) different doctors, so far they've all taken Xrays and say theres nothing wrong that they can see. They gave me Meloxicam and said its probably just Jumpers Knee and send me on my way. Anytime I do something squat related my left knee feels like theres a bunch of pressure behind the knee cap with sharp pain, had the issue for 3 years now. Still no luck in finding the issue.

I can't remember the name of it (Zero program) but I did this guys baseline program for 3 months. My legs/knees/ankles are absolutely stronger and I've done really good increasing my lower body flexibility following the program, no doubt about it. Its done nothing to help my knee pain though. Doesnt mean it wont work for you though. 

McG194 wrote:
I always had pain in the back of my knee like you mention. When I would ride a sport bike with rearset pegs I noticed that...

I always had pain in the back of my knee like you mention. When I would ride a sport bike with rearset pegs I noticed that I would get bad pain back there. When I was diagnosed with arthritis my doctor said that was the cause. I was dealing with it even in my early 20's. I just didn't know I was. 

Do you have pain right behind the kneecap?

swe292
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Hartwell, GA, USA
4/3/2023 12:20pm

Work on your core and hips and that should help the knees at least a little bit. Do that before knees and toes guy. 

1
McG194
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4/3/2023 12:22pm
Deadric wrote:
I've had my knee looked at by 3 (soon to be 4) different doctors, so far they've all taken Xrays and say theres nothing wrong that...

I've had my knee looked at by 3 (soon to be 4) different doctors, so far they've all taken Xrays and say theres nothing wrong that they can see. They gave me Meloxicam and said its probably just Jumpers Knee and send me on my way. Anytime I do something squat related my left knee feels like theres a bunch of pressure behind the knee cap with sharp pain, had the issue for 3 years now. Still no luck in finding the issue.

I can't remember the name of it (Zero program) but I did this guys baseline program for 3 months. My legs/knees/ankles are absolutely stronger and I've done really good increasing my lower body flexibility following the program, no doubt about it. Its done nothing to help my knee pain though. Doesnt mean it wont work for you though. 

McG194 wrote:
I always had pain in the back of my knee like you mention. When I would ride a sport bike with rearset pegs I noticed that...

I always had pain in the back of my knee like you mention. When I would ride a sport bike with rearset pegs I noticed that I would get bad pain back there. When I was diagnosed with arthritis my doctor said that was the cause. I was dealing with it even in my early 20's. I just didn't know I was. 

Cobbler wrote:

Do you have pain right behind the kneecap?

Yes, when my knee is flexed for extended periods. 

Rotaholic
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NZ
4/3/2023 12:39pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2023 12:41pm

Two knee surgerys about 10 ish years ago, some days I can't even push the clutch in when I drive. Kneesovertoes guy definitely helps, I even sent Jeff Walker the link a while back and he has made huge progress.

Walking backwards sled pulls or backwards on an incline treadmill and the wedge knee drop lifts are the best. 

I also use kinesiology tape, that stuff is amazing, lots of good youtube videos on how to apply it.

This guy has bookmarked alot of the videos you can't find on youtube

https://www.reddit.com/u/dritchey10?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=s…

1
swe292
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Hartwell, GA, USA
4/3/2023 12:40pm

Also stretch your quads and hams too. Those can also cause knee pain. I have to stretch my quads thoroughly before I run or I’ll have bad knee pain just from them being tight and putting pressure on it 

Dhallmark
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Lancaster, TX, USA
4/3/2023 12:55pm

My buddy swears by the Jell-O shot for his knee

1
captmoto
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
4/3/2023 3:31pm

Your stock knees are shot. Do you keep worn, leaky forks on your bike? Rattling piston and crank? I had a knee replacement and wish I had done it sooner. If I ever get to the point where my life is impacted that way again I won't wait. I do still ride, pushing 66, I've landed on my knee pretty good more than a few times and never had a problem. You must have forgotten what it's like to be pain free.

 

2
McG194
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Palm Coast, FL, USA
4/3/2023 7:20pm
Cobbler wrote:
1000 pound leg press? I just figured out why you’re knees are blowed out lol.    anyways, you have to navigate that water on your own...

1000 pound leg press? I just figured out why you’re knees are blowed out lol. 
 

anyways, you have to navigate that water on your own. You have to assess yourself too. If you think you have the knee health to strengthen what’s weak, then I would be looking into that kind of thing. No offense but that might be a missed exit. I don’t know. If you don’t have the right stuff, you’ll hurt yourself more. 

McG194 wrote:
Did I mention that I was always somewhat of a meathead? lol Don't debate, add more weight. More plates = More dates.  Funny thing is I've...

Did I mention that I was always somewhat of a meathead? lol

Don't debate, add more weight. More plates = More dates. 

Funny thing is I've always been able to push a lot on the leg press. Load up each side with as many 45's as it will hold but I never did well with squats. A little over 5 years ago when I was 49 years old I really worked on it and got my squat up to 315 pounds. Then I injured myself doing something else and I think I lost all the helper muscle strength. 

Cobbler wrote:
I was squatting 485 for a working set the other day and bench into the 300’s while still being 212 pounds. Plus I’m in marathon prep...

I was squatting 485 for a working set the other day and bench into the 300’s while still being 212 pounds. Plus I’m in marathon prep. Point is, I don’t think I’ve ever used a leg press like that. Ever. It’s not for that. That’s not what you use a leg press for. Just remember if you find yourself wrapping up for a machine, it’s time to reevaluate. 
 

more plates = more pain unless your body is up for it. 

I fully admit my use of the leg press was all wrong. I had pain when squatting so I never fixed the pain I just found a way to horse up a bunch of weight that didn't hurt me. The reality is I was throwing everything out of whack, strengthening some muscles while leaving other muscles to lag behind. I pretty much did the worst thing you can do. I was always ego driven in the gym and that's pretty dumb at the end of the day. 

1
Cobbler
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cairo, IL, USA
4/3/2023 7:34pm
McG194 wrote:
Did I mention that I was always somewhat of a meathead? lol Don't debate, add more weight. More plates = More dates.  Funny thing is I've...

Did I mention that I was always somewhat of a meathead? lol

Don't debate, add more weight. More plates = More dates. 

Funny thing is I've always been able to push a lot on the leg press. Load up each side with as many 45's as it will hold but I never did well with squats. A little over 5 years ago when I was 49 years old I really worked on it and got my squat up to 315 pounds. Then I injured myself doing something else and I think I lost all the helper muscle strength. 

Cobbler wrote:
I was squatting 485 for a working set the other day and bench into the 300’s while still being 212 pounds. Plus I’m in marathon prep...

I was squatting 485 for a working set the other day and bench into the 300’s while still being 212 pounds. Plus I’m in marathon prep. Point is, I don’t think I’ve ever used a leg press like that. Ever. It’s not for that. That’s not what you use a leg press for. Just remember if you find yourself wrapping up for a machine, it’s time to reevaluate. 
 

more plates = more pain unless your body is up for it. 

McG194 wrote:
I fully admit my use of the leg press was all wrong. I had pain when squatting so I never fixed the pain I just found...

I fully admit my use of the leg press was all wrong. I had pain when squatting so I never fixed the pain I just found a way to horse up a bunch of weight that didn't hurt me. The reality is I was throwing everything out of whack, strengthening some muscles while leaving other muscles to lag behind. I pretty much did the worst thing you can do. I was always ego driven in the gym and that's pretty dumb at the end of the day. 

Honestly.. props for at least admitting it lol. Yeah I had the same thing going on but I got with an awesome physical therapist and it’s changed my life. I was a very experienced builder before but the way I’ve learned to use my glutes and hips is like cheating. Plus, my knees are protected since there’s more than my quads squatting now. 

Timo
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1462
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Wichita, KS, USA
4/4/2023 4:58am

Everyone I know who's had knee surgery wishes they had done it sooner, get it done and enjoy life.

1
McG194
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Palm Coast, FL, USA
4/4/2023 5:06am
Timo wrote:

Everyone I know who's had knee surgery wishes they had done it sooner, get it done and enjoy life.

I won't lie, I've heard that a bunch. I'm not sure I can remember ever hearing anyone who got a knee replaced that didn't wish they did it earlier. The only thing that gives me pause is were those people in such bad shape that anything is better? 

rbm33
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Duncan, OK, USA
Fantasy
4/4/2023 5:07am
Cobbler wrote:
Yes*   *For people with healthy legs. You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you...

Yes*

 

*For people with healthy legs.

You should not take any advice from people on here. If you trust your doctor and physical therapist you should fully buy into their treatment and stick to it.

McG194 wrote:
I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in.  I...

I do agree with you in principle, but my doctor is going to make a boatload of money if he puts a new knee in. 

I think a lot of the issues we have are brought on by lifestyle and everything that goes with it. I've always been a heavy trainer but I have neglected the supporting muscles leading to bad results. I could still get on a leg press and rep over 1000 pounds with properly wrapped knees. I know one of my problems is all of the supporting muscles are much weaker in proportion. 

Your Dr is going to make a boatload of money with or without your surgery so I certainly wouldn't let that be a factor in your decision process.

And as others have said stay away from exercises that aren't age appropriate. At 56 years old I lift 5 days a week and have no idea how much I can bench, deadlift or squat, going heavy on those lifts are more about ego than strength or fitness.

As far as the replacement, choose the right surgeon and trust their opinion. Ill say it one more time choose the right surgeon, no one wants to believe they have chosen the wrong surgeon for a procedure but many times they could have made a better choice.

If your quality of life is greatly affected and your no longer doing the things you love it may be time for a replacement.

KW62
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89
Joined
9/8/2017
Location
Ferndale, MI, USA
4/4/2023 5:15am

I've used the Knees over toes guy stuff for a few years off and on and have good results. You don't even have to keep paying for it. Buy the program and run it for awhile/note down all the exercises. Then you can carry on as you see fit. 

I saw Jeff Walker has had good luck with this program as well. What I like most is that it's 100% scalable to likely any level and it works in a lot of mobility training which is often overlooked in our sport. 

1
MxAddic
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5308
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USA
4/4/2023 5:54am

I ride with my knees over my toes. Does that count?

4/4/2023 6:57am

Heard him on Joe Rogan, so this helps with mobility? I did acl meniscus in my right knee at 16, and an acl avulsion fracture in my left at 29 can’t bend either one fully. I can’t squat down on my knees and sit on my heels 

KW62
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Location
Ferndale, MI, USA
4/4/2023 7:09am
Heard him on Joe Rogan, so this helps with mobility? I did acl meniscus in my right knee at 16, and an acl avulsion fracture in...

Heard him on Joe Rogan, so this helps with mobility? I did acl meniscus in my right knee at 16, and an acl avulsion fracture in my left at 29 can’t bend either one fully. I can’t squat down on my knees and sit on my heels 

Yup. I wasn't able to sit on my heels very well even prior to my knee injury. I can now. 

Pretty much any exercise that you take to your "end-range of motion" will help with mobility. Getting to the point where you can add some weight without pain while still hitting those end range positions will help mobility further. 

1
mnomis484
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L, AT
4/4/2023 7:42am
captmoto wrote:
Your stock knees are shot. Do you keep worn, leaky forks on your bike? Rattling piston and crank? I had a knee replacement and wish I...

Your stock knees are shot. Do you keep worn, leaky forks on your bike? Rattling piston and crank? I had a knee replacement and wish I had done it sooner. If I ever get to the point where my life is impacted that way again I won't wait. I do still ride, pushing 66, I've landed on my knee pretty good more than a few times and never had a problem. You must have forgotten what it's like to be pain free.

 

Your analogy between worn bike parts and knee arthrosis lacks, because your worn piston will never heal itself. The human body however constantly adapts and renews itself, no matter the age (of course, it might take longer with age).

There are cases where a knee replacement is totally worth it, but before considering one i would try working with a good physical therapist for a couple months. You can always go for an operative treatment if PT doesnt get the desired results for you. 

Crush
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Location
Sydney, AU
4/4/2023 7:54am

Can highly recommend his workouts for knee pain. It makes sense when you get into it. It's almost like taking a rehab approach to workouts... I've had my right knee scoped twice and my right ankle is fused... do it.

2

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