AMA Pro Motocross Series Rumored to Add Starting Grates

aeffertz
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La Crosse, WI, USA
Edited Date/Time 2/28/2023 12:02pm

On the February 27th episode of PulpMX, Steve and J-Mart were talking about how the pro motocross series will supposedly be adding the starting grates to all tracks for the pro national day. Do you think this makes the series feel more professional/official? Do you think it removes another layer of start technique, making things more equal and one less thing to separate the racer’s skill set?

Poll

If true, do you like this change?

Choices
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McG194
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4124
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Location
Palm Coast, FL, USA
2/28/2023 7:27am

I prefer dirt starts but I voted pro-grate. They use them in SX and MXGP so they might as well do the same as the other top series do. 

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5
Johnny Ringo
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Tombstone, AZ, USA
2/28/2023 8:16am

Go back to concrete

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Magoofan
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Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA, USA
2/28/2023 8:21am

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

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23
2/28/2023 8:28am
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

Is it really easier to start on a grate though?

2

The Shop

Juck
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AU
Fantasy
2/28/2023 8:31am
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

crusty_xx wrote:

Is it really easier to start on a grate though?

If it's the same grate at every track every time, then yes. Way easier. May as well have a clock that counts down to the gate drop instead of the 15 second board at this point.

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GrapeApe
Posts
8912
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Location
Mc Kinney, TX, USA
2/28/2023 8:31am
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a little over dramatic?

 

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14
2/28/2023 8:37am

That sucks for amateur day we hv to start on that ? I wonder if we can remove it . Hold it wo in 2nd & dump the clutch & blow the main shaft out. 

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Magoofan
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2/28/2023 9:13am
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

crusty_xx wrote:

Is it really easier to start on a grate though?

Juck wrote:
If it's the same grate at every track every time, then yes. Way easier. May as well have a clock that counts down to the gate...

If it's the same grate at every track every time, then yes. Way easier. May as well have a clock that counts down to the gate drop instead of the 15 second board at this point.

Exactly.  It's just another thing that can be practiced to death without any variance.     Robotic.

 

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2/28/2023 9:19am

Someone please explain why we took away the skill of a rider packing their own gate? And starting on dirt...you know, the only natural element the entire track is made of. Forget the maintenance argument.

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2/28/2023 9:44am

Wow, I think this is the change that will finally grow motorcross viewership. 

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5
2/28/2023 9:47am
GrapeApe wrote:
How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a...

How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a little over dramatic?

 

It’s a completely different technique and skill. It’s not dramatic that’s just a fact of it. 

2/28/2023 10:07am
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

crusty_xx wrote:

Is it really easier to start on a grate though?

Yes much easier. I saw a vid of AC when he was on a 250f. Hold it wo in 2nd & dump the clutch.  That’s hard on a transmission & clutch. 

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SoCalMX70
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Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/28/2023 10:08am

Stop the madness. Why are we making starts easier/faster/more dangerous? Picking a gate and packing that rut is part of the sport.

Should have never let holeshot devices take off either. I didn't even bother clicking on that story/poll about it a couple weeks ago because I have found that I am in the minority opinion now. Everyone thinks they belong. Why? If everyone has a holeshot device there is no advantage. Take them away, slow down the starts, bring more technique back.

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-MAVERICK-
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Location
Ontario, CA
2/28/2023 10:17am
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

GrapeApe wrote:
How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a...

How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a little over dramatic?

 

It takes less skills on a grate. It's consistent almost 100%, unless it's wet. 

Add in electronics and it's easier to dial in your starts. 

Clay/Dirt/Sand adds an element of difficulty. 

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2/28/2023 10:49am
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

GrapeApe wrote:
How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a...

How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a little over dramatic?

 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
It takes less skills on a grate. It's consistent almost 100%, unless it's wet.  Add in electronics and it's easier to dial in your starts.  Clay/Dirt/Sand...

It takes less skills on a grate. It's consistent almost 100%, unless it's wet. 

Add in electronics and it's easier to dial in your starts. 

Clay/Dirt/Sand adds an element of difficulty. 

It's not that it takes more or less skill on a grate.  What it does do is make it more consistent and uniform.  Since some riders will prefer a grate, those will be the ones who benefit.  If you use loose sand behind every gate there will naturally be riders who have the skills in that soil type to excel above the rest.  Same with concrete.  

What happens without a grate is less consistency.  Slight variances in soil type, moisture and straightness of the rut on the same start gate will all play a part in how the bike comes out of the hole.  It's much more up the the skill of the rider at that exact moment in time to pull a good start.  It's also another factor in choosing which gate you want.  You're not just looking at the rut after the gate and the strait to the first turn.  You have to factor in what's behind the gate and what your tire is sitting on.  

Since these factors add inconsistencies it should go without saying that a natural gate should mix up the first turn a little more.  I see that as being a good thing.               

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philG
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GB
2/28/2023 11:05am

Our local club runs a gate, and the ruts are so bad it will bang your start device off just getting over it. 

For Pro races, its a must.

 

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2/28/2023 11:25am
philG wrote:
Our local club runs a gate, and the ruts are so bad it will bang your start device off just getting over it.  For Pro races...

Our local club runs a gate, and the ruts are so bad it will bang your start device off just getting over it. 

For Pro races, its a must.

 

Your local race has nothing in comparison to a pro event.  First, the number of gate drops in a day isn't even close to the same.  Second, the resources and time to use those resources are different... meaning, a skid steer and the time to use it.  Maybe your local event could greatly benefit from a concrete or steel start.  But that doesn't mean Millville needs one too.  Oranges and apples.   

3
GrapeApe
Posts
8912
Joined
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Location
Mc Kinney, TX, USA
2/28/2023 12:04pm
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

GrapeApe wrote:
How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a...

How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a little over dramatic?

 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
It takes less skills on a grate. It's consistent almost 100%, unless it's wet.  Add in electronics and it's easier to dial in your starts.  Clay/Dirt/Sand...

It takes less skills on a grate. It's consistent almost 100%, unless it's wet. 

Add in electronics and it's easier to dial in your starts. 

Clay/Dirt/Sand adds an element of difficulty. 

But it still requires skill? The rider with the best feel and control will get the best jump, just like any other surface. We have grates in SX and the same guys get the good starts as outdoors on dirt.

I grew up with concrete starts at places like Lake Whitney and Wolf Creek. 100% consistent and I could practice all day in the vacant alley behind my house if I wanted to (and if I could afford the tires). The guys with the most talent still got the jumps.

Anyway, I'm a hard indifferent. The starting surface will not affect my viewership whatsoever. I just thought the typical chicken little response was a bit over the top.

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LungButter
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Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
2/28/2023 12:09pm
GrapeApe wrote:
But it still requires skill? The rider with the best feel and control will get the best jump, just like any other surface. We have grates...

But it still requires skill? The rider with the best feel and control will get the best jump, just like any other surface. We have grates in SX and the same guys get the good starts as outdoors on dirt.

I grew up with concrete starts at places like Lake Whitney and Wolf Creek. 100% consistent and I could practice all day in the vacant alley behind my house if I wanted to (and if I could afford the tires). The guys with the most talent still got the jumps.

Anyway, I'm a hard indifferent. The starting surface will not affect my viewership whatsoever. I just thought the typical chicken little response was a bit over the top.

It's not gonna change my viewership either but you can't deny that with Front Starting Devices, Rear Starting Devices, Start Maps & Starting Grates that it's more "automatic" than ever to just dump the clutch and go.   The electronic side of it would sure seem to skew the advantage even more to the bigger/factory teams.

Everyone is using this stuff for the most part, why not just eliminate it to keep it simple and add a little more separation into the starts again?  Why do we need to keep adding stuff to make it easier and more equal?

 

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GrapeApe
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Location
Mc Kinney, TX, USA
2/28/2023 12:36pm
GrapeApe wrote:
But it still requires skill? The rider with the best feel and control will get the best jump, just like any other surface. We have grates...

But it still requires skill? The rider with the best feel and control will get the best jump, just like any other surface. We have grates in SX and the same guys get the good starts as outdoors on dirt.

I grew up with concrete starts at places like Lake Whitney and Wolf Creek. 100% consistent and I could practice all day in the vacant alley behind my house if I wanted to (and if I could afford the tires). The guys with the most talent still got the jumps.

Anyway, I'm a hard indifferent. The starting surface will not affect my viewership whatsoever. I just thought the typical chicken little response was a bit over the top.

LungButter wrote:
It's not gonna change my viewership either but you can't deny that with Front Starting Devices, Rear Starting Devices, Start Maps & Starting Grates that it's...

It's not gonna change my viewership either but you can't deny that with Front Starting Devices, Rear Starting Devices, Start Maps & Starting Grates that it's more "automatic" than ever to just dump the clutch and go.   The electronic side of it would sure seem to skew the advantage even more to the bigger/factory teams.

Everyone is using this stuff for the most part, why not just eliminate it to keep it simple and add a little more separation into the starts again?  Why do we need to keep adding stuff to make it easier and more equal?

 

I've got no problem eliminating starting devices, front and rear. One less thing the privateers need to buy. I'd also be happy to eliminate starting blocks, because I'm 6'4". lol  As for the surface, it just doesn't matter to me. If a grate takes skill out of the equation I would think that would help the privateers if anyone.

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2/28/2023 1:21pm

An interesting statistic would be the variance of riders who got the holeshot in different decades.  The first era being from the start of the production rule to when they began using start devices and metal grates.  Old school vs new school.  

If it's not making for better racing then what's the point?  Unless it's actually making it safer for the riders then it's just a marketing ploy.  The people who make the start devices and the metal grates sure are happy.  Inventing something and then lobbying to make it required by regulations is the american way.  

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2/28/2023 1:25pm

I swear to god, I’m listening to last night’s episode and my eyes fell on the title of this thread RIGHT when J-Mart mentioned it. That was fuckin’ weird. Just had to mention it.

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msp332
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Location
San Mateo, CA, USA
2/28/2023 1:27pm

Adding the expanded metal grates is an improvement for AMA pro racing. MXdN has had it for a while and USA rarely holeshots the MXdN anymore.

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cheesehead420
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Location
Manchester, CT, USA
2/28/2023 1:36pm
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

GrapeApe wrote:
How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a...

How does it take any more or less skill to start on a grate vs. packed dirt vs. concrete? Don't you think you are being a little over dramatic?

 

It’s not about skill. It’s about consistency. With grates it’s the same every time, at every gate and at every track. Just takes away from the dynamics. and that being said; it is about skill. The skill needed to know what kind of dirt your starting on, as well as gate pick with the subtleties in the existing rut that’s there. Whether or not your mechanic repacks your gate, the rut that’s there before definitely has an impact. 

matze
Posts
2284
Joined
3/1/2014
Location
Stuttgart, DE
2/28/2023 1:37pm
Magoofan wrote:
For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing.  Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift. This...

For crying out loud....stop taking the skill out of starts/racing. 

Start grates, holeshot devices, traction control, soon to be ebikes you don't have to clutch/shift.

This sport is becoming unrecognizable. 

this

3
Magoofan
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10401
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Location
Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA, USA
2/28/2023 2:31pm
It’s not about skill. It’s about consistency. With grates it’s the same every time, at every gate and at every track. Just takes away from the...

It’s not about skill. It’s about consistency. With grates it’s the same every time, at every gate and at every track. Just takes away from the dynamics. and that being said; it is about skill. The skill needed to know what kind of dirt your starting on, as well as gate pick with the subtleties in the existing rut that’s there. Whether or not your mechanic repacks your gate, the rut that’s there before definitely has an impact. 

Consistency sure is fun to watch isn't it....

 

I guess we should start using regulation dirt on all tracks too.    

 

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cheesehead420
Posts
662
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Location
Manchester, CT, USA
2/28/2023 2:42pm
It’s not about skill. It’s about consistency. With grates it’s the same every time, at every gate and at every track. Just takes away from the...

It’s not about skill. It’s about consistency. With grates it’s the same every time, at every gate and at every track. Just takes away from the dynamics. and that being said; it is about skill. The skill needed to know what kind of dirt your starting on, as well as gate pick with the subtleties in the existing rut that’s there. Whether or not your mechanic repacks your gate, the rut that’s there before definitely has an impact. 

Magoofan wrote:
Consistency sure is fun to watch isn't it.... [img]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SYMMEHoH--/c_fit%2cfl_progressive%2cq_80%2cw_636/ogdmx18kjqzlm3vrk5st.gif[/img]   I guess we should start using regulation dirt on all tracks too.        

Consistency sure is fun to watch isn't it....

 

I guess we should start using regulation dirt on all tracks too.    

 

I think maybe you did not comprehend my post. I am agreeing with you, grates a stupid.

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2/28/2023 3:21pm

To truly make the starts and racing more interesting...  Draw numbers for the gate pick.

I'm not saying it should be that way or the racers would want it that way, but... f#ck man, it would make for some exciting races and level the playing field into the first turn.

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SteveUrchin
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Location
Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
2/28/2023 3:28pm

Roger pushing the grates for Vialle 🤣

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southeast
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Location
clearwater, FL, USA
2/28/2023 3:32pm

Tomacs been getting good starts lately and the group that runs outdoor racing wants to see him up front this year.

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