Coop/Aldon

DownSouth
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Tallapoosa, GA, USA
2/15/2023 10:37am
Spoonguy wrote:
If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under...

If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under the bus, the blame for underachievement begins and ends with the team leader. Even if any of his statements were true, nobody needed to hear them, it put the whole organization of team KTM in a shit show light. What could any of his public rantings achieve? From former 500GP team mates to former team managers, and mechanics/riders, to des Nations riders who have worked for him evidently this is not new behavior. Evidently, he gave major shit and attitude to Dungey and Carioli last summer as well for underperforming.

DonM wrote:

Roger always speaks his mind and never sugarcoats anything….and he’s usually right…

I would bet the tone of those comments probably has something to do with being translated from a French interview.  

fourfourone
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2/15/2023 10:41am Edited Date/Time 2/15/2023 10:41am
Spoonguy wrote:
If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under...

If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under the bus, the blame for underachievement begins and ends with the team leader. Even if any of his statements were true, nobody needed to hear them, it put the whole organization of team KTM in a shit show light. What could any of his public rantings achieve? From former 500GP team mates to former team managers, and mechanics/riders, to des Nations riders who have worked for him evidently this is not new behavior. Evidently, he gave major shit and attitude to Dungey and Carioli last summer as well for underperforming.

DonM wrote:

Roger always speaks his mind and never sugarcoats anything….and he’s usually right…

It was pretty rough to read what he said about coop. Basically, trying to blame their terrible season as a team on one rider.

Seems like more of a management problem to me. 

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5
LungButter
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2/15/2023 10:46am
It was pretty rough to read what he said about coop. Basically, trying to blame their terrible season as a team on one rider. Seems like...

It was pretty rough to read what he said about coop. Basically, trying to blame their terrible season as a team on one rider.

Seems like more of a management problem to me. 

Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here....

We like to blindly go along with our day just accepting that he's the best Team Manager to ever grace this sport, willfully ignoring that he pretty much only wins with dudes who would won anyway and is likely very overrated but can't be questioned due to accomplishments he had 50ish years ago when it was basically an entire different sport to what it is today.

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4
fourfourone
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2/15/2023 10:53am Edited Date/Time 2/15/2023 11:01am
It was pretty rough to read what he said about coop. Basically, trying to blame their terrible season as a team on one rider. Seems like...

It was pretty rough to read what he said about coop. Basically, trying to blame their terrible season as a team on one rider.

Seems like more of a management problem to me. 

LungButter wrote:
Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here.... We like to blindly go along with our day just...

Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here....

We like to blindly go along with our day just accepting that he's the best Team Manager to ever grace this sport, willfully ignoring that he pretty much only wins with dudes who would won anyway and is likely very overrated but can't be questioned due to accomplishments he had 50ish years ago when it was basically an entire different sport to what it is today.

haha! 

I'm just being real about it. To shame the last rider that brought you a tittle is not a good look. 

He was in the right place and right time when RD5 was winning all the time and it made him look like a hero. RD5 would have done that with or without him. 

 

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3

The Shop

Spoonguy
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Mc Kean, PA, USA
2/15/2023 12:04pm
Spoonguy wrote:
If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under...

If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under the bus, the blame for underachievement begins and ends with the team leader. Even if any of his statements were true, nobody needed to hear them, it put the whole organization of team KTM in a shit show light. What could any of his public rantings achieve? From former 500GP team mates to former team managers, and mechanics/riders, to des Nations riders who have worked for him evidently this is not new behavior. Evidently, he gave major shit and attitude to Dungey and Carioli last summer as well for underperforming.

DonM wrote:

Roger always speaks his mind and never sugarcoats anything….and he’s usually right…

As is a child, but an adult knows when something is appropriate or inappropriate.

1
2/15/2023 12:33pm
It was pretty rough to read what he said about coop. Basically, trying to blame their terrible season as a team on one rider. Seems like...

It was pretty rough to read what he said about coop. Basically, trying to blame their terrible season as a team on one rider.

Seems like more of a management problem to me. 

LungButter wrote:
Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here.... We like to blindly go along with our day just...

Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here....

We like to blindly go along with our day just accepting that he's the best Team Manager to ever grace this sport, willfully ignoring that he pretty much only wins with dudes who would won anyway and is likely very overrated but can't be questioned due to accomplishments he had 50ish years ago when it was basically an entire different sport to what it is today.

I couldn’t have said it better. 

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5
2/15/2023 12:35pm

What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the guidance. 

I do understand that keeping the discipline to implement it is hard, so he would probably need someone to keep him accountable but this can be done without spending $200k.

Us mere amateurs can do a reasonably good job with fitness simply by using guidance from apps and equipment such as  Garmin without needing a trainer, or someone to keep us accountable, all the while holding down a full time job and raising a family. Yes, I know we are talking elite level fitness for a pro, and we are 'only' amateur, but its all relative & It was surprising that Coop couldnt make a better job of it than he did. 

Surely he kept a training diary in '19, '20 & '21?

1
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JazzyJJ
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Nunya, WY, USA
2/15/2023 1:04pm
What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the...

What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the guidance. 

I do understand that keeping the discipline to implement it is hard, so he would probably need someone to keep him accountable but this can be done without spending $200k.

Us mere amateurs can do a reasonably good job with fitness simply by using guidance from apps and equipment such as  Garmin without needing a trainer, or someone to keep us accountable, all the while holding down a full time job and raising a family. Yes, I know we are talking elite level fitness for a pro, and we are 'only' amateur, but its all relative & It was surprising that Coop couldnt make a better job of it than he did. 

Surely he kept a training diary in '19, '20 & '21?

Who knows. It seems like Jason has been able to do this, yet Coop was not. Could be that he just didn't put in the work and wasn't motivated, could be that the bike was just that bad and they didn't let him make changes or do enough testing.

 

We'll probably never know but unless someone is helping you do something that no one else can there's really no reason to pay crazy money for some guy to yell at you during a workout or tell you how long to ride a bicycle. Riding or skill coaches are another argument and are worth their weight I would say. 

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brettmx
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San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
2/15/2023 1:14pm
What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the...

What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the guidance. 

I do understand that keeping the discipline to implement it is hard, so he would probably need someone to keep him accountable but this can be done without spending $200k.

Us mere amateurs can do a reasonably good job with fitness simply by using guidance from apps and equipment such as  Garmin without needing a trainer, or someone to keep us accountable, all the while holding down a full time job and raising a family. Yes, I know we are talking elite level fitness for a pro, and we are 'only' amateur, but its all relative & It was surprising that Coop couldnt make a better job of it than he did. 

Surely he kept a training diary in '19, '20 & '21?

Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts to make sure the "dish" comes out as perfect as it can be. 

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-MAVERICK-
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2/15/2023 1:45pm

RV credits Aldon with 50% of his success. Talks about weight and training at the 25-minute mark. Hiring him even before leaving Pala after Stewart parted ways with him without even knowing the cost.

1
Flatliner
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CA
2/15/2023 1:50pm
brettmx wrote:
Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts...

Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts to make sure the "dish" comes out as perfect as it can be. 

If indeed true , he knew what he was taking , how much , the when and where.  It’s not like he was on epo with Aldon and off without.  Anything these guys take would be for endurance anyway, not strength based stuff.  It’s not like young guys need a bunch of testosterone or something. 
 

Just my opinion , but from winning with him , to a noticeable drop without , he probably wasn’t putting in the same level of work.  As sugar ray leonard says , it’s hard to get up and run at 5am when you’re sleeping in silk sheets. 

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1
2/15/2023 2:04pm
What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the...

What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the guidance. 

I do understand that keeping the discipline to implement it is hard, so he would probably need someone to keep him accountable but this can be done without spending $200k.

Us mere amateurs can do a reasonably good job with fitness simply by using guidance from apps and equipment such as  Garmin without needing a trainer, or someone to keep us accountable, all the while holding down a full time job and raising a family. Yes, I know we are talking elite level fitness for a pro, and we are 'only' amateur, but its all relative & It was surprising that Coop couldnt make a better job of it than he did. 

Surely he kept a training diary in '19, '20 & '21?

brettmx wrote:
Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts...

Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts to make sure the "dish" comes out as perfect as it can be. 

You’ll get lynched by the forum’s old guard for suggesting such a thing..

Although I suspect you may be right. 
PEDs in every sport in the world except Moto?

c’mon..

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3
Helda7
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Location
East Mackay, QLD, AU
2/15/2023 5:22pm
What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the...

What I dont understand is why a professional that has had three years following a program under guidance, cannot then apply the same program without the guidance. 

I do understand that keeping the discipline to implement it is hard, so he would probably need someone to keep him accountable but this can be done without spending $200k.

Us mere amateurs can do a reasonably good job with fitness simply by using guidance from apps and equipment such as  Garmin without needing a trainer, or someone to keep us accountable, all the while holding down a full time job and raising a family. Yes, I know we are talking elite level fitness for a pro, and we are 'only' amateur, but its all relative & It was surprising that Coop couldnt make a better job of it than he did. 

Surely he kept a training diary in '19, '20 & '21?

brettmx wrote:
Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts...

Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts to make sure the "dish" comes out as perfect as it can be. 

You’ll get lynched by the forum’s old guard for suggesting such a thing.. Although I suspect you may be right.  PEDs in every sport in the...

You’ll get lynched by the forum’s old guard for suggesting such a thing..

Although I suspect you may be right. 
PEDs in every sport in the world except Moto?

c’mon..

Is the Jeff Alessi thread still around? Any update on that? 

1
2/15/2023 9:26pm Edited Date/Time 2/15/2023 9:29pm
brettmx wrote:
Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts...

Because there is some "secret sauce" being used. You've got to know what the right "sauce" is at the right time and in the right amounts to make sure the "dish" comes out as perfect as it can be. 

Flatliner wrote:
If indeed true , he knew what he was taking , how much , the when and where.  It’s not like he was on epo with...

If indeed true , he knew what he was taking , how much , the when and where.  It’s not like he was on epo with Aldon and off without.  Anything these guys take would be for endurance anyway, not strength based stuff.  It’s not like young guys need a bunch of testosterone or something. 
 

Just my opinion , but from winning with him , to a noticeable drop without , he probably wasn’t putting in the same level of work.  As sugar ray leonard says , it’s hard to get up and run at 5am when you’re sleeping in silk sheets. 

To do PEDs right, healthy, and undetectable is chemistry, and the ability to read Dr charts. No rider is going to understand it all on their own. 
 

 Testosterone and EPO are the drug of choice in this world. 

3
Money
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2/15/2023 11:22pm

so does coop leave ktm after 2023?

1
The Moth
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2/15/2023 11:22pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
French interview with DeCoster from late January 2023. Translated a question from the interview. [Quote]Interviewer: Cooper Webb is having a near perfect start to the season, he...

French interview with DeCoster from late January 2023.

Translated a question from the interview.

Interviewer: Cooper Webb is having a near perfect start to the season, he said a lot of work has been done on his bike and ...

DeCoster: "(he cuts off) We worked a lot on it, but the bike is finally much closer to the first version at the beginning of last season. We did a lot of re-testing and Cooper got lost. When we started working on the new bike in September, October 2021, everything was great and everything was fine. The rider was happy. We had the first race in Anaheim in 2022 with a lucky second place I would say. It gave a false information for the rest. Cooper was not physically ready. He started looking for reasons and excuses. He focused mainly on the bike and didn't understand that it was his fault in the first place. He started complaining more and more. It was like a cancer in the team. The other riders were affected, the mechanics were affected and it went all the way up to the factory. He didn't know what was good or bad on the bike anymore. Cooper likes to say that we changed the bike. So yes, we went around and around in circles for the modifications. But I can tell you that the chassis of the bike is exactly the same as it was at the beginning of last season. Exactly the same... For the past two months, he's been working with Aldon Baker again. He's close to where he was two years ago. Not 100% yet, but he's almost there and it shows on the track."

Personally, I think they had a lot of issues with the bike last year and they've made progress with it this year. All the riders complained about the bike in different interviews last year, so it wasn't just Webb. They made progress throughout the season and Marvin eventually won a main event. 

That said, I don't doubt fitness was an issue with Webb in 2022. He was getting burnt out at Aldon's, went his own way and didn't take it as seriously. Now he's 100% back on the program and it's showing. 

Do  you have a source for this interview?

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The Moth
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2/15/2023 11:32pm
LungButter wrote:
Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here.... We like to blindly go along with our day just...

Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here....

We like to blindly go along with our day just accepting that he's the best Team Manager to ever grace this sport, willfully ignoring that he pretty much only wins with dudes who would won anyway and is likely very overrated but can't be questioned due to accomplishments he had 50ish years ago when it was basically an entire different sport to what it is today.

Speaking ill towards Roger DeCoster when it is done in ignorance such as you are doing should not be accepted here or anywhere else.  Can you name one manager or influential member of a team that has has won with "dudes" that would not have won otherwise?

It's not like Larry Brooks molded Chad Reed or James Stewart into champions.  I doubt that Dave Arnold took riders like Bailey, O'Mara, Johnson, JMB, Jeff Stanton, and McGrath and made them champions. These managers saw the talent, got them onboard and it payed off.  That's exactly what they are supposed to do! In that regard, DeCoster is one of the best  to get talent to come aboard and it has produced title after title after title.  Roger's successes cannot be overstated and your comments show an ignorance to his accomplishments in the sport of motocross and Supercross.

 

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CPR
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AU
2/16/2023 12:02am
Spoonguy wrote:
If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under...

If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under the bus, the blame for underachievement begins and ends with the team leader. Even if any of his statements were true, nobody needed to hear them, it put the whole organization of team KTM in a shit show light. What could any of his public rantings achieve? From former 500GP team mates to former team managers, and mechanics/riders, to des Nations riders who have worked for him evidently this is not new behavior. Evidently, he gave major shit and attitude to Dungey and Carioli last summer as well for underperforming.

You seem to be forgetting that DeCoster isn’t team manager anymore, hasn’t been for years. Harrison is team manager and Webb’s boss. DeCoster is head of KTM motorsports.

Money
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2/16/2023 12:29am
Spoonguy wrote:
If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under...

If Roger really made those statements to a French magazine about Cooper, DeCoster needs to be fired. A manager should never publicly throw an employee under the bus, the blame for underachievement begins and ends with the team leader. Even if any of his statements were true, nobody needed to hear them, it put the whole organization of team KTM in a shit show light. What could any of his public rantings achieve? From former 500GP team mates to former team managers, and mechanics/riders, to des Nations riders who have worked for him evidently this is not new behavior. Evidently, he gave major shit and attitude to Dungey and Carioli last summer as well for underperforming.

CPR wrote:
You seem to be forgetting that DeCoster isn’t team manager anymore, hasn’t been for years. Harrison is team manager and Webb’s boss. DeCoster is head of...

You seem to be forgetting that DeCoster isn’t team manager anymore, hasn’t been for years. Harrison is team manager and Webb’s boss. DeCoster is head of KTM motorsports.

 but do you really think rog isn’t making the calls at ktm. Rog has always favored ktm. Just ask Anderson about that…… when husky was struggling with issues pretty sure Jason sent email to Austria not happy and that if it was a ktm rog would already have it fixed. 

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Mavetism
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2/16/2023 12:54am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2023 12:55am

Cooper seems to be on the every other year plan. 

Not really, he probably was just as good as Tomac in 2020. Without one bad race in the beginning of the season and without the fall on his back he would have been right there (only finished 25 points off Tomac as far as I remember). Could have been three in a row for him.

Anyway, woulda coulda shoulda, it's good he's back now and I'm excited for a 3 man battle this year, hope they stay healthy and that the last round will be the decider.

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2/16/2023 5:20am
LungButter wrote:
Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here.... We like to blindly go along with our day just...

Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here....

We like to blindly go along with our day just accepting that he's the best Team Manager to ever grace this sport, willfully ignoring that he pretty much only wins with dudes who would won anyway and is likely very overrated but can't be questioned due to accomplishments he had 50ish years ago when it was basically an entire different sport to what it is today.

The Moth wrote:
Speaking ill towards Roger DeCoster when it is done in ignorance such as you are doing should not be accepted here or anywhere else.  Can you...

Speaking ill towards Roger DeCoster when it is done in ignorance such as you are doing should not be accepted here or anywhere else.  Can you name one manager or influential member of a team that has has won with "dudes" that would not have won otherwise?

It's not like Larry Brooks molded Chad Reed or James Stewart into champions.  I doubt that Dave Arnold took riders like Bailey, O'Mara, Johnson, JMB, Jeff Stanton, and McGrath and made them champions. These managers saw the talent, got them onboard and it payed off.  That's exactly what they are supposed to do! In that regard, DeCoster is one of the best  to get talent to come aboard and it has produced title after title after title.  Roger's successes cannot be overstated and your comments show an ignorance to his accomplishments in the sport of motocross and Supercross.

 

Dave Arnold took huge chances on guys because he saw potential and brought it out, Decoster hires guys who have won. 
 

 In the early 80s, nobody was offering Donnie Hansen, Johnny O’mara, Chuck Sun, or Magoo jobs, except Dave Arnold. Wven Bailey was only offered a Kawasaki support ride, but Arnold saw the potential.
Who in their right mind saw Micky Dymond winning 2 125 titles after being an 8-10 place 500 guy besides Dave Arnold?  Nobody was going after McGrath when Arnold offered him a 125 factory ride. 
 

 Yes, we can give credit to Decoster for bringing in JMB, when Arnold didn’t want him, but was that really a success? 
 

 He did a great job at stealing Dungey away from another team, and taking credit for it. 

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fourfourone
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2/16/2023 5:22am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2023 5:44am
LungButter wrote:
Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here.... We like to blindly go along with our day just...

Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here....

We like to blindly go along with our day just accepting that he's the best Team Manager to ever grace this sport, willfully ignoring that he pretty much only wins with dudes who would won anyway and is likely very overrated but can't be questioned due to accomplishments he had 50ish years ago when it was basically an entire different sport to what it is today.

The Moth wrote:
Speaking ill towards Roger DeCoster when it is done in ignorance such as you are doing should not be accepted here or anywhere else.  Can you...

Speaking ill towards Roger DeCoster when it is done in ignorance such as you are doing should not be accepted here or anywhere else.  Can you name one manager or influential member of a team that has has won with "dudes" that would not have won otherwise?

It's not like Larry Brooks molded Chad Reed or James Stewart into champions.  I doubt that Dave Arnold took riders like Bailey, O'Mara, Johnson, JMB, Jeff Stanton, and McGrath and made them champions. These managers saw the talent, got them onboard and it payed off.  That's exactly what they are supposed to do! In that regard, DeCoster is one of the best  to get talent to come aboard and it has produced title after title after title.  Roger's successes cannot be overstated and your comments show an ignorance to his accomplishments in the sport of motocross and Supercross.

 

You said "DeCoster is one of the best to get talent to come aboard and it has produced title after title after title."

Other than the run the RD5 had, where are these riders you claim that came aboard and brought KTM all these titles(other than webb)

When is the last time KTM got a 250 title? 

 

1
Silas444
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Mid-state, ME, USA
2/16/2023 6:18am
UpTiTe wrote:
Dave Arnold took huge chances on guys because he saw potential and brought it out, Decoster hires guys who have won.     In the early 80s...

Dave Arnold took huge chances on guys because he saw potential and brought it out, Decoster hires guys who have won. 
 

 In the early 80s, nobody was offering Donnie Hansen, Johnny O’mara, Chuck Sun, or Magoo jobs, except Dave Arnold. Wven Bailey was only offered a Kawasaki support ride, but Arnold saw the potential.
Who in their right mind saw Micky Dymond winning 2 125 titles after being an 8-10 place 500 guy besides Dave Arnold?  Nobody was going after McGrath when Arnold offered him a 125 factory ride. 
 

 Yes, we can give credit to Decoster for bringing in JMB, when Arnold didn’t want him, but was that really a success? 
 

 He did a great job at stealing Dungey away from another team, and taking credit for it. 

I wonder if it actually physically hurts to have a brain so riddled with nonsense. 

To be clear: O'Mara was a known quantity when Honda signed him, his success with Mugen (a company owned by Mister Honda's son) was not a secret. In fact, he'd already won the U.S. 125 Grand Prix. Chuck Sun was already a factory Husky rider on the same team that produced Howerton when Honda came knocking, and Bailey's potential was clear to all back when he was a very young factory Bultaco rider.

You can't hire everyone, can you?

To be clear: Dungey was a wet-behind-the-ears runt when DeCoster signed him to Suzuki. No one could figure out why...... 'till he started winning. Coop was a down and out failure and DeCoster signed him to KTM anyway. No one could figure out why....... 'till he started winning.

You can't win them all, can you?

These silly threads produce the same old crap over and over again. Guys who have barely a clue how much impact DeCoster has had, or how incredibly talented he is at a multitude of things, pick someone to compare him to and just roll with it. It's called ENVY. It's not a good thing to have. Turn inward, and wrench on thy inner self instead. The weirdest thing of all this is, anyone who actually knows DeCoster's life story knows his biggest accomplishment is his total lack of bitterness. He was shit on time after time after time by people who owed so much of their success to him, and every time, he just shrugged and found another way. 

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2/16/2023 6:27am
LungButter wrote:
Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here.... We like to blindly go along with our day just...

Oh now you done and did it son....speaking ill toward ol' Rog is NOT ACCEPTED here....

We like to blindly go along with our day just accepting that he's the best Team Manager to ever grace this sport, willfully ignoring that he pretty much only wins with dudes who would won anyway and is likely very overrated but can't be questioned due to accomplishments he had 50ish years ago when it was basically an entire different sport to what it is today.

The Moth wrote:
Speaking ill towards Roger DeCoster when it is done in ignorance such as you are doing should not be accepted here or anywhere else.  Can you...

Speaking ill towards Roger DeCoster when it is done in ignorance such as you are doing should not be accepted here or anywhere else.  Can you name one manager or influential member of a team that has has won with "dudes" that would not have won otherwise?

It's not like Larry Brooks molded Chad Reed or James Stewart into champions.  I doubt that Dave Arnold took riders like Bailey, O'Mara, Johnson, JMB, Jeff Stanton, and McGrath and made them champions. These managers saw the talent, got them onboard and it payed off.  That's exactly what they are supposed to do! In that regard, DeCoster is one of the best  to get talent to come aboard and it has produced title after title after title.  Roger's successes cannot be overstated and your comments show an ignorance to his accomplishments in the sport of motocross and Supercross.

 

You said "DeCoster is one of the best to get talent to come aboard and it has produced title after title after title." Other than the...

You said "DeCoster is one of the best to get talent to come aboard and it has produced title after title after title."

Other than the run the RD5 had, where are these riders you claim that came aboard and brought KTM all these titles(other than webb)

When is the last time KTM got a 250 title? 

 

It started long before KTM. Carmichael was the first, until then he had years of losing seasons at Suzuki. 
 

 If you look at the big picture, three guys brought Decoster all his success. It’s kinda funny really, Decoster wasn’t considered the genius he is now  until he got RC, before that, he was considered a mediocre team manager with great racing heritage. 
 

 I think Roger does a great job helping established riders continue winning, but he doesn’t know how to develop young talent. 

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2
2/16/2023 6:52am
UpTiTe wrote:
Dave Arnold took huge chances on guys because he saw potential and brought it out, Decoster hires guys who have won.     In the early 80s...

Dave Arnold took huge chances on guys because he saw potential and brought it out, Decoster hires guys who have won. 
 

 In the early 80s, nobody was offering Donnie Hansen, Johnny O’mara, Chuck Sun, or Magoo jobs, except Dave Arnold. Wven Bailey was only offered a Kawasaki support ride, but Arnold saw the potential.
Who in their right mind saw Micky Dymond winning 2 125 titles after being an 8-10 place 500 guy besides Dave Arnold?  Nobody was going after McGrath when Arnold offered him a 125 factory ride. 
 

 Yes, we can give credit to Decoster for bringing in JMB, when Arnold didn’t want him, but was that really a success? 
 

 He did a great job at stealing Dungey away from another team, and taking credit for it. 

Silas444 wrote:
I wonder if it actually physically hurts to have a brain so riddled with nonsense.  To be clear: O'Mara was a known quantity when Honda signed...

I wonder if it actually physically hurts to have a brain so riddled with nonsense. 

To be clear: O'Mara was a known quantity when Honda signed him, his success with Mugen (a company owned by Mister Honda's son) was not a secret. In fact, he'd already won the U.S. 125 Grand Prix. Chuck Sun was already a factory Husky rider on the same team that produced Howerton when Honda came knocking, and Bailey's potential was clear to all back when he was a very young factory Bultaco rider.

You can't hire everyone, can you?

To be clear: Dungey was a wet-behind-the-ears runt when DeCoster signed him to Suzuki. No one could figure out why...... 'till he started winning. Coop was a down and out failure and DeCoster signed him to KTM anyway. No one could figure out why....... 'till he started winning.

You can't win them all, can you?

These silly threads produce the same old crap over and over again. Guys who have barely a clue how much impact DeCoster has had, or how incredibly talented he is at a multitude of things, pick someone to compare him to and just roll with it. It's called ENVY. It's not a good thing to have. Turn inward, and wrench on thy inner self instead. The weirdest thing of all this is, anyone who actually knows DeCoster's life story knows his biggest accomplishment is his total lack of bitterness. He was shit on time after time after time by people who owed so much of their success to him, and every time, he just shrugged and found another way. 

Nonsense, lol, I’ll break it all down so it’s easy to follow. I knew exactly what O’mara was offered, and Honda was the only factory offer he had. Yes, the GP helped him gain recognition, but he was already talking to Honda by then. Yes, Mugen was/is owned by Hondas son, but Honda or Mugen had nothing to do with Johnny riding them, that was all Al Baker. In fact, Johnny wasn’t even considered for the Mugen job until Al got the rights to import them, Mugen had a Japanese rider lined up. 
 

 Chuck had zero interest from American teams and was going to race GPs until Arnold came knocking. 
 

 Kawasaki was going to Bailey on a support ride with factory bikes because they had a full team.

 

 Dungey is the one that makes me lol the most because NOBODY has a clue how Roger got him, they think he was hand picked out of the B class by Roger, wrong.  
 

  Ole Gress had been grooming Ryan and his brother for years, Roger had no idea who he was. Cole even brought Ryan to Roger, but he didn’t know who he was so he chose Brian Gray(rip) and Izzy. Roger had no idea who Ryan was until Cole Gress and another guy, whose name is escaping me now brought him to Glennhellen to test for the Rockstar Suzuki team   That’s when Roger took notice because he was faster than the two factory guys testing for Roger that day  

 

 As far as me finding flaws because I’m envious, naw, I wouldn’t want Rogers personal life at all, and I’ve done fairly well for myself. I say this stuff only when people say he is the greatest bla bla bla.
 

Great? For sure, greatest team manager, that would go to Dave Arnold, he built an empire that lasted 15 years and won more titles in that span than any manager in history and taught Roger everything he knows about chassis’s. 
 

 

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DonM
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2/16/2023 7:39am
UpTiTe wrote:
Dave Arnold took huge chances on guys because he saw potential and brought it out, Decoster hires guys who have won.     In the early 80s...

Dave Arnold took huge chances on guys because he saw potential and brought it out, Decoster hires guys who have won. 
 

 In the early 80s, nobody was offering Donnie Hansen, Johnny O’mara, Chuck Sun, or Magoo jobs, except Dave Arnold. Wven Bailey was only offered a Kawasaki support ride, but Arnold saw the potential.
Who in their right mind saw Micky Dymond winning 2 125 titles after being an 8-10 place 500 guy besides Dave Arnold?  Nobody was going after McGrath when Arnold offered him a 125 factory ride. 
 

 Yes, we can give credit to Decoster for bringing in JMB, when Arnold didn’t want him, but was that really a success? 
 

 He did a great job at stealing Dungey away from another team, and taking credit for it. 

Silas444 wrote:
I wonder if it actually physically hurts to have a brain so riddled with nonsense.  To be clear: O'Mara was a known quantity when Honda signed...

I wonder if it actually physically hurts to have a brain so riddled with nonsense. 

To be clear: O'Mara was a known quantity when Honda signed him, his success with Mugen (a company owned by Mister Honda's son) was not a secret. In fact, he'd already won the U.S. 125 Grand Prix. Chuck Sun was already a factory Husky rider on the same team that produced Howerton when Honda came knocking, and Bailey's potential was clear to all back when he was a very young factory Bultaco rider.

You can't hire everyone, can you?

To be clear: Dungey was a wet-behind-the-ears runt when DeCoster signed him to Suzuki. No one could figure out why...... 'till he started winning. Coop was a down and out failure and DeCoster signed him to KTM anyway. No one could figure out why....... 'till he started winning.

You can't win them all, can you?

These silly threads produce the same old crap over and over again. Guys who have barely a clue how much impact DeCoster has had, or how incredibly talented he is at a multitude of things, pick someone to compare him to and just roll with it. It's called ENVY. It's not a good thing to have. Turn inward, and wrench on thy inner self instead. The weirdest thing of all this is, anyone who actually knows DeCoster's life story knows his biggest accomplishment is his total lack of bitterness. He was shit on time after time after time by people who owed so much of their success to him, and every time, he just shrugged and found another way. 

UpTiTe wrote:
Nonsense, lol, I’ll break it all down so it’s easy to follow. I knew exactly what O’mara was offered, and Honda was the only factory offer...

Nonsense, lol, I’ll break it all down so it’s easy to follow. I knew exactly what O’mara was offered, and Honda was the only factory offer he had. Yes, the GP helped him gain recognition, but he was already talking to Honda by then. Yes, Mugen was/is owned by Hondas son, but Honda or Mugen had nothing to do with Johnny riding them, that was all Al Baker. In fact, Johnny wasn’t even considered for the Mugen job until Al got the rights to import them, Mugen had a Japanese rider lined up. 
 

 Chuck had zero interest from American teams and was going to race GPs until Arnold came knocking. 
 

 Kawasaki was going to Bailey on a support ride with factory bikes because they had a full team.

 

 Dungey is the one that makes me lol the most because NOBODY has a clue how Roger got him, they think he was hand picked out of the B class by Roger, wrong.  
 

  Ole Gress had been grooming Ryan and his brother for years, Roger had no idea who he was. Cole even brought Ryan to Roger, but he didn’t know who he was so he chose Brian Gray(rip) and Izzy. Roger had no idea who Ryan was until Cole Gress and another guy, whose name is escaping me now brought him to Glennhellen to test for the Rockstar Suzuki team   That’s when Roger took notice because he was faster than the two factory guys testing for Roger that day  

 

 As far as me finding flaws because I’m envious, naw, I wouldn’t want Rogers personal life at all, and I’ve done fairly well for myself. I say this stuff only when people say he is the greatest bla bla bla.
 

Great? For sure, greatest team manager, that would go to Dave Arnold, he built an empire that lasted 15 years and won more titles in that span than any manager in history and taught Roger everything he knows about chassis’s. 
 

 

I agree with you on Arnold, Jeff Stanton was probably his greatest find by plucking him off a Yam support ride....but you do come off as having a hard on for Roger...Pretty sure Cole pushed both Izzy and Grey to him also....did something happen between the two of you for him to earn the discredit you give him? I have great respect for both.

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1
2/16/2023 9:11am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2023 9:14am
Silas444 wrote:
I wonder if it actually physically hurts to have a brain so riddled with nonsense.  To be clear: O'Mara was a known quantity when Honda signed...

I wonder if it actually physically hurts to have a brain so riddled with nonsense. 

To be clear: O'Mara was a known quantity when Honda signed him, his success with Mugen (a company owned by Mister Honda's son) was not a secret. In fact, he'd already won the U.S. 125 Grand Prix. Chuck Sun was already a factory Husky rider on the same team that produced Howerton when Honda came knocking, and Bailey's potential was clear to all back when he was a very young factory Bultaco rider.

You can't hire everyone, can you?

To be clear: Dungey was a wet-behind-the-ears runt when DeCoster signed him to Suzuki. No one could figure out why...... 'till he started winning. Coop was a down and out failure and DeCoster signed him to KTM anyway. No one could figure out why....... 'till he started winning.

You can't win them all, can you?

These silly threads produce the same old crap over and over again. Guys who have barely a clue how much impact DeCoster has had, or how incredibly talented he is at a multitude of things, pick someone to compare him to and just roll with it. It's called ENVY. It's not a good thing to have. Turn inward, and wrench on thy inner self instead. The weirdest thing of all this is, anyone who actually knows DeCoster's life story knows his biggest accomplishment is his total lack of bitterness. He was shit on time after time after time by people who owed so much of their success to him, and every time, he just shrugged and found another way. 

UpTiTe wrote:
Nonsense, lol, I’ll break it all down so it’s easy to follow. I knew exactly what O’mara was offered, and Honda was the only factory offer...

Nonsense, lol, I’ll break it all down so it’s easy to follow. I knew exactly what O’mara was offered, and Honda was the only factory offer he had. Yes, the GP helped him gain recognition, but he was already talking to Honda by then. Yes, Mugen was/is owned by Hondas son, but Honda or Mugen had nothing to do with Johnny riding them, that was all Al Baker. In fact, Johnny wasn’t even considered for the Mugen job until Al got the rights to import them, Mugen had a Japanese rider lined up. 
 

 Chuck had zero interest from American teams and was going to race GPs until Arnold came knocking. 
 

 Kawasaki was going to Bailey on a support ride with factory bikes because they had a full team.

 

 Dungey is the one that makes me lol the most because NOBODY has a clue how Roger got him, they think he was hand picked out of the B class by Roger, wrong.  
 

  Ole Gress had been grooming Ryan and his brother for years, Roger had no idea who he was. Cole even brought Ryan to Roger, but he didn’t know who he was so he chose Brian Gray(rip) and Izzy. Roger had no idea who Ryan was until Cole Gress and another guy, whose name is escaping me now brought him to Glennhellen to test for the Rockstar Suzuki team   That’s when Roger took notice because he was faster than the two factory guys testing for Roger that day  

 

 As far as me finding flaws because I’m envious, naw, I wouldn’t want Rogers personal life at all, and I’ve done fairly well for myself. I say this stuff only when people say he is the greatest bla bla bla.
 

Great? For sure, greatest team manager, that would go to Dave Arnold, he built an empire that lasted 15 years and won more titles in that span than any manager in history and taught Roger everything he knows about chassis’s. 
 

 

DonM wrote:
I agree with you on Arnold, Jeff Stanton was probably his greatest find by plucking him off a Yam support ride....but you do come off as...

I agree with you on Arnold, Jeff Stanton was probably his greatest find by plucking him off a Yam support ride....but you do come off as having a hard on for Roger...Pretty sure Cole pushed both Izzy and Grey to him also....did something happen between the two of you for him to earn the discredit you give him? I have great respect for both.

I think I come off that why because we’re on line, and it’s hard to discern the difference between respect and disrespect. I think Roger in probably the third or fourth best team manager throughout history, I think Dave Arnold and Mitch are a close one and two with Kenny Clark probably third.  
 

 Back in the day, I actually got along well with him. He did say something about my bike once that bummed me out, but I was over that later that day. 
 

edit: Cole brought Izzy for sure, but Roger picked Brian Gray. To their credit, a lot of people thought both would be good. Who thought when izzy was 15 that he would be a mess 3 years later. 

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DonM
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2/16/2023 10:03am
UpTiTe wrote:
Nonsense, lol, I’ll break it all down so it’s easy to follow. I knew exactly what O’mara was offered, and Honda was the only factory offer...

Nonsense, lol, I’ll break it all down so it’s easy to follow. I knew exactly what O’mara was offered, and Honda was the only factory offer he had. Yes, the GP helped him gain recognition, but he was already talking to Honda by then. Yes, Mugen was/is owned by Hondas son, but Honda or Mugen had nothing to do with Johnny riding them, that was all Al Baker. In fact, Johnny wasn’t even considered for the Mugen job until Al got the rights to import them, Mugen had a Japanese rider lined up. 
 

 Chuck had zero interest from American teams and was going to race GPs until Arnold came knocking. 
 

 Kawasaki was going to Bailey on a support ride with factory bikes because they had a full team.

 

 Dungey is the one that makes me lol the most because NOBODY has a clue how Roger got him, they think he was hand picked out of the B class by Roger, wrong.  
 

  Ole Gress had been grooming Ryan and his brother for years, Roger had no idea who he was. Cole even brought Ryan to Roger, but he didn’t know who he was so he chose Brian Gray(rip) and Izzy. Roger had no idea who Ryan was until Cole Gress and another guy, whose name is escaping me now brought him to Glennhellen to test for the Rockstar Suzuki team   That’s when Roger took notice because he was faster than the two factory guys testing for Roger that day  

 

 As far as me finding flaws because I’m envious, naw, I wouldn’t want Rogers personal life at all, and I’ve done fairly well for myself. I say this stuff only when people say he is the greatest bla bla bla.
 

Great? For sure, greatest team manager, that would go to Dave Arnold, he built an empire that lasted 15 years and won more titles in that span than any manager in history and taught Roger everything he knows about chassis’s. 
 

 

DonM wrote:
I agree with you on Arnold, Jeff Stanton was probably his greatest find by plucking him off a Yam support ride....but you do come off as...

I agree with you on Arnold, Jeff Stanton was probably his greatest find by plucking him off a Yam support ride....but you do come off as having a hard on for Roger...Pretty sure Cole pushed both Izzy and Grey to him also....did something happen between the two of you for him to earn the discredit you give him? I have great respect for both.

UpTiTe wrote:
I think I come off that why because we’re on line, and it’s hard to discern the difference between respect and disrespect. I think Roger in...

I think I come off that why because we’re on line, and it’s hard to discern the difference between respect and disrespect. I think Roger in probably the third or fourth best team manager throughout history, I think Dave Arnold and Mitch are a close one and two with Kenny Clark probably third.  
 

 Back in the day, I actually got along well with him. He did say something about my bike once that bummed me out, but I was over that later that day. 
 

edit: Cole brought Izzy for sure, but Roger picked Brian Gray. To their credit, a lot of people thought both would be good. Who thought when izzy was 15 that he would be a mess 3 years later. 

Yeah sometimes the written word can come off different than intended….I’ve had that issue a few times myself…I agree with you but I would probably put Roger a little higher….now can we talk about the worst team manger in history….

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1
2/16/2023 12:20pm
UpTiTe wrote:
I think I come off that why because we’re on line, and it’s hard to discern the difference between respect and disrespect. I think Roger in...

I think I come off that why because we’re on line, and it’s hard to discern the difference between respect and disrespect. I think Roger in probably the third or fourth best team manager throughout history, I think Dave Arnold and Mitch are a close one and two with Kenny Clark probably third.  
 

 Back in the day, I actually got along well with him. He did say something about my bike once that bummed me out, but I was over that later that day. 
 

edit: Cole brought Izzy for sure, but Roger picked Brian Gray. To their credit, a lot of people thought both would be good. Who thought when izzy was 15 that he would be a mess 3 years later. 

What did Roger say about your bike?

JazzyJJ
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2/16/2023 12:52pm
UpTiTe wrote:
I think I come off that why because we’re on line, and it’s hard to discern the difference between respect and disrespect. I think Roger in...

I think I come off that why because we’re on line, and it’s hard to discern the difference between respect and disrespect. I think Roger in probably the third or fourth best team manager throughout history, I think Dave Arnold and Mitch are a close one and two with Kenny Clark probably third.  
 

 Back in the day, I actually got along well with him. He did say something about my bike once that bummed me out, but I was over that later that day. 
 

edit: Cole brought Izzy for sure, but Roger picked Brian Gray. To their credit, a lot of people thought both would be good. Who thought when izzy was 15 that he would be a mess 3 years later. 

What did Roger say about your bike?

Said his bike could handle the whoops with a decent rider like DV in shorts

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