DeCoster Whoop change

beamer
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Squaw River, CA
2/12/2023 6:22pm

Yet another topic that our Moto media could actually cover and ask questions. But they won't

luke11 wrote:

Ding ding ding. I love this sport so much but my pet peeve is the lack of real journalism. No one asks the difficult questions

Where’s Peter Doucey when you need him ?

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The Moth
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2/12/2023 6:50pm
CPR wrote:
People discussing this issue are getting too caught up in the Sexton/ Webb results in my opinion. The big thing here for me is that one...

People discussing this issue are getting too caught up in the Sexton/ Webb results in my opinion.

The big thing here for me is that one person (RD) has too much influence over the promoters and track builders. It’s been brought up numerous times over the years, with heaps of examples by the who’s who of SX. It’s not speculation, it obviously happens.

If multiple riders complain about a section being unsafe, then okay listen, but one person with vested interests, should not influence these decisions no matter who they are.

Weege said this about the whoops:

"Funny, on Friday afternoon Stew saw how close the last whoop was to the entrance to the turn and said it would be gone by race time. And it was. Dudes were gonna go flying straight through that turn the way it was set up"

 

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dv12.com
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2/12/2023 7:23pm

What's worse... The whoops change or that pass interference call at the end of the Super Bowl?

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rhargrave431
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2/12/2023 7:29pm
dv12.com wrote:

What's worse... The whoops change or that pass interference call at the end of the Super Bowl?

Definitely the super bowl call. 

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The Shop

Muttly
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2/12/2023 7:36pm

Roger DeCoster has forgotten more about this sport than you know, Lemming.

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Crush
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2/12/2023 7:55pm

Walk the track and then say the whoops are small

That applies to the whole track 

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Muttly
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2/12/2023 7:59pm

Walk the track and then say the whoops are small

Crush wrote:

That applies to the whole track 

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, I got to walk a SX track……..it was amazeballs and left me dumbfounded!

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LungButter
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2/12/2023 8:45pm
Muttly wrote:

Roger DeCoster has forgotten more about this sport than you know, Lemming.

Most folks his age have forgotten a lot of things. 

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10
CPR
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2/12/2023 8:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2023 8:54pm
CPR wrote:
People discussing this issue are getting too caught up in the Sexton/ Webb results in my opinion. The big thing here for me is that one...

People discussing this issue are getting too caught up in the Sexton/ Webb results in my opinion.

The big thing here for me is that one person (RD) has too much influence over the promoters and track builders. It’s been brought up numerous times over the years, with heaps of examples by the who’s who of SX. It’s not speculation, it obviously happens.

If multiple riders complain about a section being unsafe, then okay listen, but one person with vested interests, should not influence these decisions no matter who they are.

The Moth wrote:
Weege said this about the whoops: "Funny, on Friday afternoon Stew saw how close the last whoop was to the entrance to the turn and...

Weege said this about the whoops:

"Funny, on Friday afternoon Stew saw how close the last whoop was to the entrance to the turn and said it would be gone by race time. And it was. Dudes were gonna go flying straight through that turn the way it was set up"

 

And? Implies the last whoop was too close, cool if so and they removed it for that reason all good. Still doesn’t change that a few more were removed, as requested by an individual.

If you look at the rest of the comments, you’ll see several other industry identities saying Roger has always done this. Weege sounds like he’s just playing diplomatically, as he usually does, he’s a smart guy.

 

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wreckitrandy
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2/12/2023 10:38pm

With Plessinger getting on the box as well, I'm surprised DeCoster hasn't been accused of making it rain. 

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1
2/12/2023 10:58pm

A good source that I trust informed me that specifically Roger did not approach the officials about removing whoops.  I reviewed photos and video and the last whoop was rolled for the night show and I believe 2 were removed from the build to the final track that was raced.  At least 1 was removed because they were too close to the corner and it was a concern.  

That part makes total sense.  The talk about the shape changing (I saw Chiz mention it as well) and maybe an extra 1 or 2 being gone can be debated whether necessary, but you have to think the rain and potential of a mudder had to play a part also.  At least I hope so. 

Already this year the whoops haven't been nearly as challenging as last year and the whoops changing each week is part of what makes SX what it is in my opinion.  They're a staple of the discipline.  As a fan, a "big challenging whoops section" that favors a guy like Christian Craig gives a round character while I also think "jumpers" or shorter/easier whoops playing into a rider's favor does the same.  It's a great talking point, creates diversity, and a champion has to master all types of conditions.

 

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mx317
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2/13/2023 3:41am
Muttly wrote:

Roger DeCoster has forgotten more about this sport than you know, Lemming.

LungButter wrote:

Most folks his age have forgotten a lot of things. 

But he’s still THE MAN. 

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2
IWreckALot
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2/13/2023 6:20am
A good source that I trust informed me that specifically Roger did not approach the officials about removing whoops.  I reviewed photos and video and the...

A good source that I trust informed me that specifically Roger did not approach the officials about removing whoops.  I reviewed photos and video and the last whoop was rolled for the night show and I believe 2 were removed from the build to the final track that was raced.  At least 1 was removed because they were too close to the corner and it was a concern.  

That part makes total sense.  The talk about the shape changing (I saw Chiz mention it as well) and maybe an extra 1 or 2 being gone can be debated whether necessary, but you have to think the rain and potential of a mudder had to play a part also.  At least I hope so. 

Already this year the whoops haven't been nearly as challenging as last year and the whoops changing each week is part of what makes SX what it is in my opinion.  They're a staple of the discipline.  As a fan, a "big challenging whoops section" that favors a guy like Christian Craig gives a round character while I also think "jumpers" or shorter/easier whoops playing into a rider's favor does the same.  It's a great talking point, creates diversity, and a champion has to master all types of conditions.

 

I have no problem with the whoops getting modified. It happens pretty frequently anyways as they groom the track. Not removing whoops but they're naturally always bigger at the beginning of the day than the end. Those whoops had some nasty cups and square edges by the end of the race. The top guys lapped up to like 10th it seemed. If Decoster voiced concerns that's his job. Other team managers should have a say also, but Decoster is just doing his job. 

Webb seems to be able to hang out up front regardless of the whoops which is pretty insane. He's commonly slower in them but makes up the time on other sections of the track. 

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JB 19
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2/13/2023 6:24am

Roger has been around a long time,  but how would he ever know that getting the whoops changed would cause Chase to crash in them? 

.... but the guy is good.   

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seth505
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2/13/2023 6:33am

Do people honestly think that Roger petitions whatever he wants, gets things changed and then the other team managers are just like “aww schucks, we didn’t want that!”  ?

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mooch
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2/13/2023 7:01am

As The Moth said earlier...this is all pretty simple.

If Matthes is gonna report that "a team" told him that DeCoster demanded the change, then, to make that a valid piece of journalism (and to be believed) the team that stated this HAS to be named.  Otherwise, this is just a bunch of hearsay for folks to yammer senselessly about.

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Leave Us To
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2/13/2023 10:40am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
A lot of people wanted smaller and safer whoops before the season started. There was a thread about it.  Track changes were made to accommodate that...

A lot of people wanted smaller and safer whoops before the season started. There was a thread about it. 

Track changes were made to accommodate that and people still bitch about it.

For the record, I don't agree with it. Whoops are a big part of SX and I think they should be big and difficult. One of the only places to separate the guys. Commit to them or back it down/jump them if you feel they're not safe. That or get better at them. 

It's the pro class and they're the elite of the sport. 

I started that thread and was flamed to a crisp so after a dozen or so torchings, deleted it.  

Doesn't matter to me if The Man suggested it or not as it was an excellent idea.    The track is the same for everyone and if I was a Team Manager, I would thank Roger if it was his suggestion.  The racing has been great this year and I thought the A2 track was the best so far since it was higher speed.   I can't see how anyone can say the whoops are easier given the number of riders having issues getting through them.   Webb almost crashed twice before Sexton went down so can't undertand anyone who thinks they're easier.

 

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Forty
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2/13/2023 10:49am
seth505 wrote:
Do people honestly think that Roger petitions whatever he wants, gets things changed and then the other team managers are just like “aww schucks, we didn’t...

Do people honestly think that Roger petitions whatever he wants, gets things changed and then the other team managers are just like “aww schucks, we didn’t want that!”  ?

Yes, yes they do.  It's incredible but they do.

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wreckitrandy
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2/17/2023 9:13am
seth505 wrote:
Do people honestly think that Roger petitions whatever he wants, gets things changed and then the other team managers are just like “aww schucks, we didn’t...

Do people honestly think that Roger petitions whatever he wants, gets things changed and then the other team managers are just like “aww schucks, we didn’t want that!”  ?

Forty wrote:

Yes, yes they do.  It's incredible but they do.

There's an article on RacerX that speaks to this topic. Not that it will change anyone's mind...

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fourfourone
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2/17/2023 9:34am

Keep calling Decoster out and he'll just blame coop anyway. 

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DonM
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2/17/2023 9:48am Edited Date/Time 2/18/2023 7:03am
seth505 wrote:
Do people honestly think that Roger petitions whatever he wants, gets things changed and then the other team managers are just like “aww schucks, we didn’t...

Do people honestly think that Roger petitions whatever he wants, gets things changed and then the other team managers are just like “aww schucks, we didn’t want that!”  ?

Forty wrote:

Yes, yes they do.  It's incredible but they do.

There's an article on RacerX that speaks to this topic. Not that it will change anyone's mind...

It won't....once the pitchforks are out the truth is no longer relevant.....

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CPR
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2/17/2023 4:31pm

Keep calling Decoster out and he'll just blame coop anyway. 

😂 and Coop will blame the bike…..the moto merry go round continues.
That’s why we love this sport, it’d be boring without personalities.

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The Moth
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2/17/2023 8:00pm
CPR wrote:
People discussing this issue are getting too caught up in the Sexton/ Webb results in my opinion. The big thing here for me is that one...

People discussing this issue are getting too caught up in the Sexton/ Webb results in my opinion.

The big thing here for me is that one person (RD) has too much influence over the promoters and track builders. It’s been brought up numerous times over the years, with heaps of examples by the who’s who of SX. It’s not speculation, it obviously happens.

If multiple riders complain about a section being unsafe, then okay listen, but one person with vested interests, should not influence these decisions no matter who they are.

The Moth wrote:
Weege said this about the whoops: "Funny, on Friday afternoon Stew saw how close the last whoop was to the entrance to the turn and...

Weege said this about the whoops:

"Funny, on Friday afternoon Stew saw how close the last whoop was to the entrance to the turn and said it would be gone by race time. And it was. Dudes were gonna go flying straight through that turn the way it was set up"

 

CPR wrote:
And? Implies the last whoop was too close, cool if so and they removed it for that reason all good. Still doesn’t change that a few...

And? Implies the last whoop was too close, cool if so and they removed it for that reason all good. Still doesn’t change that a few more were removed, as requested by an individual.

If you look at the rest of the comments, you’ll see several other industry identities saying Roger has always done this. Weege sounds like he’s just playing diplomatically, as he usually does, he’s a smart guy.

 

It's been cleared up here if you are interested:

https://racerxonline.com/2023/02/15/450-words-fewer-whoops

 

This week, Feld Motor Sports' Mike Muye explained to us how decisions get made on track changes, hoping to put some of these rumors to rest. Here’s how the process worked in Tampa:

“Prior to the start of practice, some riders mentioned the need to remove one whoop at the end of the lane to provide more time for the bike to settle before making the turn leading up to the triple,” said Muye. “So, we did. After watching practice, our team (both Feld and AMA) felt it to still be unsafe as several riders we witnessed had near issues. So, we (Feld and AMA) decided removing an additional whoop was the best and safest option. It should be noted that we never take a single team or rider’s advice on track adjustments. If approached with a concern by a team or rider, we’ll immediately ask other teams and riders for their input. This provides us with a collective decision for the better, rather than one individual’s preference.”

 

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bingerfang
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2/17/2023 8:22pm
The Moth wrote:
It's been cleared up here if you are interested: https://racerxonline.com/2023/02/15/450-words-fewer-whoops   This week, Feld Motor Sports' Mike Muye explained to us how decisions get made on...

It's been cleared up here if you are interested:

https://racerxonline.com/2023/02/15/450-words-fewer-whoops

 

This week, Feld Motor Sports' Mike Muye explained to us how decisions get made on track changes, hoping to put some of these rumors to rest. Here’s how the process worked in Tampa:

“Prior to the start of practice, some riders mentioned the need to remove one whoop at the end of the lane to provide more time for the bike to settle before making the turn leading up to the triple,” said Muye. “So, we did. After watching practice, our team (both Feld and AMA) felt it to still be unsafe as several riders we witnessed had near issues. So, we (Feld and AMA) decided removing an additional whoop was the best and safest option. It should be noted that we never take a single team or rider’s advice on track adjustments. If approached with a concern by a team or rider, we’ll immediately ask other teams and riders for their input. This provides us with a collective decision for the better, rather than one individual’s preference.”

 

Well this doesn’t fit the narrative, lol!

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wreckitrandy
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2/17/2023 8:29pm
The Moth wrote:
Weege said this about the whoops: "Funny, on Friday afternoon Stew saw how close the last whoop was to the entrance to the turn and...

Weege said this about the whoops:

"Funny, on Friday afternoon Stew saw how close the last whoop was to the entrance to the turn and said it would be gone by race time. And it was. Dudes were gonna go flying straight through that turn the way it was set up"

 

CPR wrote:
And? Implies the last whoop was too close, cool if so and they removed it for that reason all good. Still doesn’t change that a few...

And? Implies the last whoop was too close, cool if so and they removed it for that reason all good. Still doesn’t change that a few more were removed, as requested by an individual.

If you look at the rest of the comments, you’ll see several other industry identities saying Roger has always done this. Weege sounds like he’s just playing diplomatically, as he usually does, he’s a smart guy.

 

The Moth wrote:
It's been cleared up here if you are interested: https://racerxonline.com/2023/02/15/450-words-fewer-whoops   This week, Feld Motor Sports' Mike Muye explained to us how decisions get made on...

It's been cleared up here if you are interested:

https://racerxonline.com/2023/02/15/450-words-fewer-whoops

 

This week, Feld Motor Sports' Mike Muye explained to us how decisions get made on track changes, hoping to put some of these rumors to rest. Here’s how the process worked in Tampa:

“Prior to the start of practice, some riders mentioned the need to remove one whoop at the end of the lane to provide more time for the bike to settle before making the turn leading up to the triple,” said Muye. “So, we did. After watching practice, our team (both Feld and AMA) felt it to still be unsafe as several riders we witnessed had near issues. So, we (Feld and AMA) decided removing an additional whoop was the best and safest option. It should be noted that we never take a single team or rider’s advice on track adjustments. If approached with a concern by a team or rider, we’ll immediately ask other teams and riders for their input. This provides us with a collective decision for the better, rather than one individual’s preference.”

 

So, where's the backlash towards Steve. Is this situation different from when Ping was getting blasted? 

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2/17/2023 10:12pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2023 10:32pm

Decoster is almost 80 years old. The sport now is completely different then when he was racing. So why is he still running and calling the shots on basically 3 factory teams? What does he know about modern bikes, Supercross, and suspension set ups? He is the reason why some teams won't have their rider participate in the MXDN. Why? Because the whole time he's hanging out with the Euro guys and gives 2 shits about or any attention to our guys who aren't on one of his brands. He basically shit on Kalib Russell's dream to ride the Nationals after he won a ton of off road races and titles for KTM. Oh ya Russell also probably sold a shitload more of KTM bikes then Roger, or anyone else riding under the brand will ever do. Here's a good read. 

https://gnccracing.com/2021/07/20/kailub-russell-steps-away-from-ama-pr…

How about the Nationals last year? He pretty much shit on legends Ryan Dungey and Tony Carollie's results in the Nationals. One guy had been retired 4 or so years after an amazing career and the other had just retired as the most dominant GP rider ever. They finished behind guys like Tomac, Sexton, Etc. And he has the gall to talk bad about them? But says nothing as their marquee  rider a healthy Cooper Webb takes the summer off to ride local races and off road events? 

How this guy, who probably never hit a jump over 20 feet when he raced in the 70's, has the pull to get the the track builders to adjust the tracks to his riders strengths is beyond me. It really pisses me off what he did to Russell it was complete bullshit, the guy broke his jaw a few weeks before the season and still raced. Only to have Roger basically force to leave the team. There is a lot more to that story if you feel like researching it. Time to put the old geezer out to the pasture and bring in some one who has a sense of how the sport works today.

You guys know where the thumbs down button is. 

Can't wait to go to the races in Oakland tomorrow. 

This is what the AMA needs to do when Roger comes over whining. 

close-door-the-office

 

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BobbyMyers
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2/18/2023 12:25am
Decoster is almost 80 years old. The sport now is completely different then when he was racing. So why is he still running and calling the...

Decoster is almost 80 years old. The sport now is completely different then when he was racing. So why is he still running and calling the shots on basically 3 factory teams? What does he know about modern bikes, Supercross, and suspension set ups? He is the reason why some teams won't have their rider participate in the MXDN. Why? Because the whole time he's hanging out with the Euro guys and gives 2 shits about or any attention to our guys who aren't on one of his brands. He basically shit on Kalib Russell's dream to ride the Nationals after he won a ton of off road races and titles for KTM. Oh ya Russell also probably sold a shitload more of KTM bikes then Roger, or anyone else riding under the brand will ever do. Here's a good read. 

https://gnccracing.com/2021/07/20/kailub-russell-steps-away-from-ama-pr…

How about the Nationals last year? He pretty much shit on legends Ryan Dungey and Tony Carollie's results in the Nationals. One guy had been retired 4 or so years after an amazing career and the other had just retired as the most dominant GP rider ever. They finished behind guys like Tomac, Sexton, Etc. And he has the gall to talk bad about them? But says nothing as their marquee  rider a healthy Cooper Webb takes the summer off to ride local races and off road events? 

How this guy, who probably never hit a jump over 20 feet when he raced in the 70's, has the pull to get the the track builders to adjust the tracks to his riders strengths is beyond me. It really pisses me off what he did to Russell it was complete bullshit, the guy broke his jaw a few weeks before the season and still raced. Only to have Roger basically force to leave the team. There is a lot more to that story if you feel like researching it. Time to put the old geezer out to the pasture and bring in some one who has a sense of how the sport works today.

You guys know where the thumbs down button is. 

Can't wait to go to the races in Oakland tomorrow. 

This is what the AMA needs to do when Roger comes over whining. 

close-door-the-office

 

Yo Mama...

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1
RaceFace232
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Northampton, MA, USA
2/18/2023 5:20am

With Plessinger getting on the box as well, I'm surprised DeCoster hasn't been accused of making it rain. 

Now that you mention it…..

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RaceFace232
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Location
Northampton, MA, USA
2/18/2023 5:32am
Decoster is almost 80 years old. The sport now is completely different then when he was racing. So why is he still running and calling the...

Decoster is almost 80 years old. The sport now is completely different then when he was racing. So why is he still running and calling the shots on basically 3 factory teams? What does he know about modern bikes, Supercross, and suspension set ups? He is the reason why some teams won't have their rider participate in the MXDN. Why? Because the whole time he's hanging out with the Euro guys and gives 2 shits about or any attention to our guys who aren't on one of his brands. He basically shit on Kalib Russell's dream to ride the Nationals after he won a ton of off road races and titles for KTM. Oh ya Russell also probably sold a shitload more of KTM bikes then Roger, or anyone else riding under the brand will ever do. Here's a good read. 

https://gnccracing.com/2021/07/20/kailub-russell-steps-away-from-ama-pr…

How about the Nationals last year? He pretty much shit on legends Ryan Dungey and Tony Carollie's results in the Nationals. One guy had been retired 4 or so years after an amazing career and the other had just retired as the most dominant GP rider ever. They finished behind guys like Tomac, Sexton, Etc. And he has the gall to talk bad about them? But says nothing as their marquee  rider a healthy Cooper Webb takes the summer off to ride local races and off road events? 

How this guy, who probably never hit a jump over 20 feet when he raced in the 70's, has the pull to get the the track builders to adjust the tracks to his riders strengths is beyond me. It really pisses me off what he did to Russell it was complete bullshit, the guy broke his jaw a few weeks before the season and still raced. Only to have Roger basically force to leave the team. There is a lot more to that story if you feel like researching it. Time to put the old geezer out to the pasture and bring in some one who has a sense of how the sport works today.

You guys know where the thumbs down button is. 

Can't wait to go to the races in Oakland tomorrow. 

This is what the AMA needs to do when Roger comes over whining. 

close-door-the-office

 

I’d have to say that is some sacrilegious shit right there.  You realize he had a lot to do with the development of the Suzuki 450 that won titles even without RC on it and he’s pretty much responsible for KTM’s rise as a power in the US MX industry.  I don’t think KTM is doing shit in SX, ever, without hiring Roger.  You should not have said any of that.  Some of the best NFL coaches never came close to being a Pro player.  Roger is like the best NFL coach ever who also was a hall of fame QB with 5 SuperBowl rings.  I sometimes agree with you on certain topics but this now will make me question myself anytime I do.

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RaceFace232
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Northampton, MA, USA
2/18/2023 5:34am

I had to reread that a few more times.  What does he know about modern suspension and setup?  Holy shit.

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