Wait! Hold the phone DC

Lightning78
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Lightning78 9/22/2009 1:27pm
9/22/2009 1:27pm
Cygnus wrote:
Here is our other .org racing the same weekend. If they all show up for the interstate challenge this weekend and the next we should have...
Here is our other .org racing the same weekend. If they all show up for the interstate challenge this weekend and the next we should have almost full gates.


50cc (Class 4) - Class Finish Positions Points for this class
Overall Nbr Brand Name Hometown Moto 1 Moto 2 Points Earned
1 #17 HON JAYLEND MC CARTY COLO. SPRINGS, CO 1 1 33
2 #68 HON COOPER KEVWITCH LITTLETON, CO 3 2 30
3 #11 YAM BRADY MAC KINNON CANON CITY, CO 2 3 28
4 #7 HON TONI FERNANDEZ PUEBLO, CO 4 4 26
5 #20 HON HUNTER RODVOLD ARVADA, CO 5 5 24
6 #369 HON CHANCE GLASER COLO. SPRINGS, CO 6 6 23
7 #14 HON MEGAN ZAWACKI BENNETT, CO 7 7 22
8 #88 HON KARISTA RITCHIE COLO. SPRINGS, CO 8 9 21
9 #239 HON DYLAN BARNES-1 , 11 8 20
10 #49 HON SHEPARD RODVOLD ELIZABETH, CO 10 10 18
11 #73 YAM JENNIFER OLIVIERI-KNOX PUEBLO, CO 9 11 18
12 #66 HON JACOB GRIMES PARKER, CO 12 12 17
Man you guys sure have some strange names in CO, what are they putting in the water?
MX7MX
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MX7MX 9/22/2009 1:28pm
9/22/2009 1:28pm
Question, if the 350F still dominates the 250T, then what? More bitchin till the 2 stroke has the advantage? I'm guessing that until the 2 stroke dominates, none of you 2 stroke faithful will ever be happy.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 9/22/2009 1:29pm
9/22/2009 1:29pm
DirtyFilter75 wrote:
Racer X asked Chad and James both recently 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Both said 4 stroke. There you go. The riders have spoken.
.....And what did you think they would say? That was not a well thought out post unless there was some sarcasm in that I didn't see. James and Chad are CONTRACTED TO RIDE 450'S. They cannot state that they like 2 strokes even if they wanted to and would likely get into some real hot water for saying so.....maybe you should state a rider's opinon that isn't contractuarly biased.
MX7MX
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MX7MX 9/22/2009 1:30pm
9/22/2009 1:30pm
Oh and miedo, you wanting Pro AMA to make rules that FORCES the OEM's to make certain bikes or release certain bikes. Remember, in todays economy, they will do like Honda did in the roadbikes, pull out completely, YOU WANT THAT? Or can you be happy with what we DO have?

The Shop

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Moto East Mag
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Moto East Mag 9/22/2009 1:32pm
9/22/2009 1:32pm
350?

Why would I want to trade in my 450 for a bike with 100 less cc's?

Oh well, I race vet class. You can run whatever you want.

Lightning78
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Lightning78 9/22/2009 1:34pm
9/22/2009 1:34pm
ProMed wrote:
Shirley, you can't be serious.
"Don't call me Shirley" LOL
miedosoracing1 9/22/2009 2:11pm
9/22/2009 2:11pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2009 2:13pm
Why are you guys even arguing about the 350f. It's a dead subject. Only used for an example to prove the OEM's say one thing to their advantage, even though it isn't true. For people who say they have 3 degrees, they sure can't read.
miedosoracing1 9/22/2009 2:11pm
9/22/2009 2:11pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2009 2:13pm
Goride333
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Goride333 9/22/2009 2:14pm
9/22/2009 2:14pm
DirtyFilter75 wrote:
Racer X asked Chad and James both recently 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Both said 4 stroke. There you go. The riders have spoken.
What are they getting paid to ride and promote again?
sc961
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sc961 9/22/2009 2:22pm
9/22/2009 2:22pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Why are you guys even arguing about the 350f. It's a dead subject. Only used for an example to prove the OEM's say one thing to...
Why are you guys even arguing about the 350f. It's a dead subject. Only used for an example to prove the OEM's say one thing to their advantage, even though it isn't true. For people who say they have 3 degrees, they sure can't read.
The 350 will still be too loud, and very expensive to buy and or repair if you have engine trouble...

I'm not a two stroke advocate, but might get there if I have any more rebuilds on the 4 bangers...
miedosoracing1 9/22/2009 2:36pm
9/22/2009 2:36pm
DirtyFilter75 wrote:
Racer X asked Chad and James both recently 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Both said 4 stroke. There you go. The riders have spoken.
Did they ask 250 2 stroke or 250 4 stroke? I think not. Look at this video and tell me James doesn't pick the 250 2 stroke to have fun on.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/james-stewart-ride-day-two-stroke/
GuyB
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GuyB 9/22/2009 2:47pm
9/22/2009 2:47pm
Even the Japanese engineers here mentioned that the 450 is a big rough for their riders to handle, and it's also a bit much for their tracks (apparently Japanese tracks are much tighter, and not as wide-open as they are here).
500guy
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500guy 9/22/2009 2:54pm
9/22/2009 2:54pm
That's fine with me, I don't plan to ride in Japan , 450 or more is where it's at.
newmann
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newmann 9/22/2009 2:56pm
9/22/2009 2:56pm
Went riding this weekend. Took my YZ250F and my kids KTM144 and RM125. The 250F was flat ass boring as far as I am concerned. My old ass blitzing the whoop section 4th gear pinned on the RM was heaven on earth though. And I couldn't get around my youngest son on his 144 to save my life. Damn kids, they were always fun when I could keep them behind me! None of the mfgs. will be getting anymore 4 stroke money from me, already been bit by the 250F rebuilds a couple times. If I didn't have so much money invested in trick shit on mine it would have been pushed to the road years ago.
miedosoracing1 9/22/2009 3:01pm
9/22/2009 3:01pm
Hey newmann, would the KTM144 modded out, keep up with the 250f's in your opinion?
MX7MX
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MX7MX 9/22/2009 3:06pm
9/22/2009 3:06pm
I'd like to know that question to miedo, so whats the verdict Newman?
miedosoracing1 9/22/2009 3:26pm
9/22/2009 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2009 3:48pm
Again MX7, this is comparing a 250f modded to a modded 144cc or a stock 250 2 stroke when we are all talking. A stock 250 2 stroke is comparable to a modded 250 4 stroke. That has already been established. Since you don't seem to ever read or comprehend what everyone is talking about, before spouting off.
newmann
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newmann 9/22/2009 3:45pm
9/22/2009 3:45pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Hey newmann, would the KTM144 modded out, keep up with the 250f's in your opinion?
I don't think that would be out of the realm of reality, they just make power differently. The four stroke to me just doesn't provide the element of fun, and at my age that's all that really matters. The 2 stroke requires you to be a better rider but rewards you with a fun factor that the 4 will never be able to deliver. Top level riders will obviously prefer the 250F over a 125/144/150 due to the power delivery. One of the mags back in 01 when the YZ250F first came out printed horsepower specs over 30 hp. The YZ250F made HP over 30 from 5000 rpm all the way to 12000 if I remember correctly. It absolutely killed the bikes that only put out 1/2 the displacement. And that was in stock form with the choked down exhaust. Most of the magazines could not believe how much of a power increase was available on that first year bike with a simple pipe swap. Yamaha must have realized what they created and detuned it to keep from stirring up too much of a stink. The closest 125 at the time was the KTM and I think it only stayed above 30 for 1800 rpm's. The worst was the Honda CR125 and it only hung over 30 for 900 rpms. That's why the 250 2 stroke / 250 4 stroke shouldn't be that big of an issue. The 2 and 4 make power differently rewarding the rider of each with different characteristics. The AMA and the mfg's really screwed this one up by making the 125 class extinct. That class in itself has provided the basis for the up and coming riders since MX took off here in the US back in the early 70's. I think it's a criminal act to say the least.Angry

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Hank_Thrill
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Hank_Thrill 9/22/2009 4:21pm
9/22/2009 4:21pm
DirtyFilter75 wrote:
Racer X asked Chad and James both recently 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Both said 4 stroke. There you go. The riders have spoken.
Yeah, and it's not like they get paid to say that either.

If Yamaha and Suzuki told them both to say they prefer "3-strokes" (if there were such a thing) - don't hesitate for a second to think that they wouldn't comply.
2stroke153
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2stroke153 9/22/2009 4:50pm
9/22/2009 4:50pm
MX7MX wrote:
Question, if the 350F still dominates the 250T, then what? More bitchin till the 2 stroke has the advantage? I'm guessing that until the 2 stroke...
Question, if the 350F still dominates the 250T, then what? More bitchin till the 2 stroke has the advantage? I'm guessing that until the 2 stroke dominates, none of you 2 stroke faithful will ever be happy.
After all this time and your still missing the point!
cpj36
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cpj36 9/22/2009 5:06pm
9/22/2009 5:06pm
DirtyFilter75 wrote:
Racer X asked Chad and James both recently 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Both said 4 stroke. There you go. The riders have spoken.
They wouldn't if Ricky could have been on any 2 stk up to 450cc.

Actually Reed not too long ago was still saying they could do anything on the 2 that they could on the 4, in SX. I'd also be surprised if either would ever share an unfavorable opinion of the product their employer wants to sell.
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cpj36 9/22/2009 5:13pm
9/22/2009 5:13pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:18am
They also said they had the infrastructure and going 4 stk was much easier than continuing with such a small limited market as the 2 stk was. Now that we want something different it was too costly to go 4 stk to go back now.


Whatever they say you can be sure that the bikes they're selling produce the most profit, if not they wouldn't be in business.
wardy
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wardy 9/22/2009 5:26pm
9/22/2009 5:26pm
glad everything is so rosey there guys.

guess thats why honda is trying to sell the "rest" of there 2009 stock since it was such a boom.

and that list of riders is a "big deal"??? so typical of the single minded thought process that continues in this sport.

Like scott said, do your home work and not jsut spout off on a post board. You may be learn something.

never mind, it's useless to argue with folks like my 13 yr old who know it all.

Smile
cpj36
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cpj36 9/22/2009 6:11pm
9/22/2009 6:11pm
I don't know if the 50 class is the best example. Most 50 riders have some background in the sport and we're stupid enough to buy $3500+ 50's, so we'll risk going broke while we think we're building the next RC. $3500 50's and 65's suck but going from $2900 85 to a $4500 150 4 stk sucks more.

I don't think we see as many teens coming into the sport as we used to and I think that downtime most of us have when it's time to start buying our own stuff is more severe with the 4 stks. Today, a 12 year old has to ask parents that probably know nothing about MX for a $7000 250F. 7K and he's probably wanting a car soon as well as saving for school.

If he gets a used bike Dad will go broke paying someone to work on it and either way I doubt keeping a 250F running is very easy while just starting out or going to college. Not that a 2 stk is either but definitely more manageable.

86honda
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86honda 9/22/2009 7:12pm
9/22/2009 7:12pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Dear Mr. Forslyk, In case you missed the memo, in most racing organizations now, AMATEURS CAN RACE 250 vs 250! If people want to race two...
Dear Mr. Forslyk,

In case you missed the memo, in most racing organizations now, AMATEURS CAN RACE 250 vs 250!

If people want to race two strokes, NO ONE IS STOPPING THEM!
MX7MX wrote:
your right, noone is stopping them. A 125 can be raced in the 250F class, and the 250T can be raced in the 450F class. Nobody...
your right, noone is stopping them. A 125 can be raced in the 250F class, and the 250T can be raced in the 450F class. Nobody says that you can't!
I just quit racing so I can ride longer between rebuilds. Ride for fun and let the trophey whores pay all the bills.
mxpilot43 9/22/2009 7:15pm
9/22/2009 7:15pm
i think the perfect solution for smokers is to take somebody with a strong work ethic and some logic and put them in charge of a 2-stroke series. it would benefit 125 and 250's and be an excellent feeder series. get yamaha,ktm,fmf,etc to kick in some coin and it will get stronger every year if managed correctly i promise you. it would also put an end to all the 2 vs 4 bickering. i think the brit's have a fine example. this years nat's a bad example.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 9/22/2009 7:27pm
9/22/2009 7:27pm
GuyB wrote:
Even the Japanese engineers here mentioned that the 450 is a big rough for their riders to handle, and it's also a bit much for their...
Even the Japanese engineers here mentioned that the 450 is a big rough for their riders to handle, and it's also a bit much for their tracks (apparently Japanese tracks are much tighter, and not as wide-open as they are here).
Thats what killed off the 500cc two stroke.....and yes guyb you are right.

The have too much HP for 90% of the tracks in the US save the national one's, ever try to ride a 450 at Starwest? 2nd gear all the way cept for the back straight
Lightning78
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Lightning78 9/22/2009 7:38pm
9/22/2009 7:38pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Hey newmann, would the KTM144 modded out, keep up with the 250f's in your opinion?
newmann wrote:
I don't think that would be out of the realm of reality, they just make power differently. The four stroke to me just doesn't provide the...
I don't think that would be out of the realm of reality, they just make power differently. The four stroke to me just doesn't provide the element of fun, and at my age that's all that really matters. The 2 stroke requires you to be a better rider but rewards you with a fun factor that the 4 will never be able to deliver. Top level riders will obviously prefer the 250F over a 125/144/150 due to the power delivery. One of the mags back in 01 when the YZ250F first came out printed horsepower specs over 30 hp. The YZ250F made HP over 30 from 5000 rpm all the way to 12000 if I remember correctly. It absolutely killed the bikes that only put out 1/2 the displacement. And that was in stock form with the choked down exhaust. Most of the magazines could not believe how much of a power increase was available on that first year bike with a simple pipe swap. Yamaha must have realized what they created and detuned it to keep from stirring up too much of a stink. The closest 125 at the time was the KTM and I think it only stayed above 30 for 1800 rpm's. The worst was the Honda CR125 and it only hung over 30 for 900 rpms. That's why the 250 2 stroke / 250 4 stroke shouldn't be that big of an issue. The 2 and 4 make power differently rewarding the rider of each with different characteristics. The AMA and the mfg's really screwed this one up by making the 125 class extinct. That class in itself has provided the basis for the up and coming riders since MX took off here in the US back in the early 70's. I think it's a criminal act to say the least.Angry
Newmann your first 3 scentences are why I switched back.....the 4 stroke doesn't (FOR ME) provide the thrill of riding an MX bike as does a 2 stroke. Something about the instant rush and sound of the bike makes it FUN to ride I haven't had that kind of satisfaction for years now till I went out on a smoker for the entire day I may not be as fast as I would on a 450 but I definitly leave the track feeling satisfied when i ride the smoker.

Tomorrow I am going to buy an 06 RM 250 bone stock and so new it still has all the orginal chain, sprockets, graphics, and tires.......for $2,500! So stoked, I'll post pics of it tomorrow Cheerful It was a rare find
2T42
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2T42 9/22/2009 9:02pm
9/22/2009 9:02pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:19am
All the cool kids who will be wakeboarding in two years ride 4 $trokes and the racers with some common sense and throttle control (who built this sport and are not paid to ride $T's) race 2 strokes. hmmmm. The target demographic for the $T is 16-24.... OF Course, because marketing works in that category! They knew anyone who could think for themselves and had some skills would never pay more money for a heavier bike! lol

The ALL NEW YZ450F weighs in at a whopping 7 MORE pounds than last year. For $500 more($8090) you get 7 MORE pounds. At $72 a pound, not a bad deal?! what? oh $4,000 worth of titanium could get it back to the 09 model weight! Does this make the 09 worth MORE now? I am really confused. An 1997 XR400 only weighed 11 more pounds!




DC, you KNOW what you have to do.

BRAAAP!
JW381
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JW381 9/22/2009 9:14pm
9/22/2009 9:14pm
2T42 wrote:
All the cool kids who will be wakeboarding in two years ride 4 $trokes and the racers with some common sense and throttle control (who built...
All the cool kids who will be wakeboarding in two years ride 4 $trokes and the racers with some common sense and throttle control (who built this sport and are not paid to ride $T's) race 2 strokes. hmmmm. The target demographic for the $T is 16-24.... OF Course, because marketing works in that category! They knew anyone who could think for themselves and had some skills would never pay more money for a heavier bike! lol

The ALL NEW YZ450F weighs in at a whopping 7 MORE pounds than last year. For $500 more($8090) you get 7 MORE pounds. At $72 a pound, not a bad deal?! what? oh $4,000 worth of titanium could get it back to the 09 model weight! Does this make the 09 worth MORE now? I am really confused. An 1997 XR400 only weighed 11 more pounds!




DC, you KNOW what you have to do.

BRAAAP!
I am all for the 2-stroke revival man, but so far EVERYONE has been saying that although the new YZ is heavier, it feels so much lighter due to the more centralized mass. But Kawi has no excuse for their almost 250 lb pig.

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