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So from what I gather, factory transmissions are super hard to find neutral. With issues like what Malcom had last week, can the guys make neutral even tighter? I don't pretend to know how the gears work inside a transmission. Do they have the ability to change just how hard it is to get into neutral or are there just like 2 choices "stock bike" vs "factory bike"? I guess my question is, can they adjust incrementally how "big" neutral is?
From my understanding and the times I've hit false neutrals; it was from the shifting mechanism more than the transmission itself. But my experiences are all on YZs not a Husky.
Why is it called false neutral?
Cause when it happens, it is actually neutral.
Man, you ain’t lying! I’ve step through many a YZ250 due to false neutral.
It false because it’s not the actual designed neutral. It’s in between two gears, so not engaged and not making power.
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Oh, so it not actually neutral?
Just limbo between gears?
Hmm.
There are several different thoughts and opinions, but my own personal experience is “yes” a “limbo” if you will. Seemed to always be downshifting in the air when the bike was not under load.
Rider error most of the time, its happened to all of us at one point.
Whew….
Glad this post is about transmissions
Isn't a false neutral and actually clicking neutral 2 different things?
A false is when you don't click into 3rd or 4th properly and it free revs for a moment b4 clicking the actual gear.
Malcom actually clicked neutral.
Can they just make a box without neutral.
False neutral is not the actual neutral. It's when the shift doesn't engage properly and the dogs don't catch each other and bounce back apart. You can easily eliminate the actual neutral in any engine. If you look at the shift star, between 1st and 2nd, there is a step or valley where the roller stops in between which is your neutral. If you eliminate that valley, it will shift straight from 1st to 2nd with no area for the shift mechanism to stop at neutral. I don't now how these race teams do it, but my guess would be is that they lessen the pitch in the neutral area so it would naturally want to skip right over it without stopping.
Yep! Cost me lights out, broken collar bone, seven ribs, punctured lung and a couple days in the hospital.
This is a good pic to show what I was talking about, you can see how the spot at the very top is the normal neutral. If you would make that spot look like the rest of the peaks, it would completely eliminate neutral
That's what the manufacturers want us to believe.
Why is it we are all fucking hopeless at shifting on jump faces, and not down hills?
Because transmissions don’t shift easily under load on the face of a jump and they do coasting no load down a hill.
Malcolm would not have been shifting from 1st to 2nd there, so no, it would not have selected ‘neutral’ as we know it.
‘False neutral’ is an expression used to describe a momentary period of no drive. The way the gears work, the gears slide across the shaft and lock in to each other in order to select the next gear.
it does require the load to be released from the motor for around 50 milliseconds in order to allow the dogs to lock in.
The load can be released by chopping the throttle, dipping the clutch or by use of a quick shifter.
Malcolm was likely shifting from 2nd to 3rd, and hadn’t locked in 3rd when he landed atop that box.
I don’t know for sure but the riders were probably accelerating out of that turn & seat bouncing in 2nd, grabbing 3rd in the air and accelerating off of that box in 3rd. (It sounds long winded, but all happens in one second)
if he made that gear change half a second too late and applied the power and had no drive he’s lost the drive he needed to lift the front wheel, and OTB he goes.
For me, it's happened when I'm tired, and I've only shifted half way, or shifted and still had pressure on the shift lever, whether up or down. I don't remember this happening for awhile, but it has happened to me, and it was rider error.
As tight as that turn was I wouldn't be surprised if he was shifting from 1st to 2nd.
MotoGP bikes have a N-1-2-3-4-5-6 gearbox, where you have to physically actuate a lever on the handlebar to get into neutral. Not sure if the rules in AMA allow for this, but it would prevent incidents with actual neutral coming out of 1. gear corners with a pack of riders behind you.
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I feel like this thread is gonna go the way of the legendary " seat bounce" thread 😂😂
I’m glad we’re talking about tranny’s!
Factory 450 SX riders routinely use 1st. There transmissions are not stock.
Why don't they just make a gearbox where 2nd is like the first they have made and 3rd like 2nd and so on?
In this way you would eliminate the need to go to first and then upshift and possibly hit neutral. The 450's aren't going into 5th gear, not even through the whoops.
I asked one of the top 250 riders that question once and he responded " That's an interesting question! I don't know why!"
My bike is a 3 speed with neutral at the bottom.
So you never hit neutral between 1st and 2nd because it isnt there.
MotoGP boxes have neutral at the top, but there is a mechanical system that will not let you select it unless you are stood still.
Once asked a top 250 rider, “can you explain the role of values in the making of business ethics. How can these be incorporated in working out business strategy?” He replied, “That’s a good question, I don’t know!”
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Factory transmissions are ISF finished with DLC coatings, just like F1 transmissions. Very low friction. Doesn't change the shifting characteristics all that much, or at least doesn't increase the likelihood of a false neutral.
That was a tricky obstacle with a huge rut leading up the jump face. Sure sounded like he was in neutral when he landed on top of the table and gassed it. He's lucky his body landed on the backside of the next jump. Still a wallop but could have been much, much worse.
Something no one has mentioned is the custom shift drums some teams use that are lighter and designed to help make true neutral hard to find. I would assume Mookie has that as well I know Austria has them avaliable. I wonder if they're using the quick shift and if he tapped it on accident a d it half shifted.
Couple of items that need to be addressed in this thread…
1. Anyone who believes Malcom was in first gear out of the corner and through takeoff shouldn’t post in this thread.
2. Anyone who believes that you can somehow shift into true neutral from any gear shouldn’t post in this thread.
3. Anyone who doesn’t understand the correlation between engine rpm’s, engine load (force acting against the power the engine is producing) and its effects on transmission shift shouldn’t post in this thread.
4. Anyone stating opinion as fact shouldn’t post in this thread.
5. Finally, anyone who has not successfully executed an unsuccessful, partial, mis or half transmission shift should not post in this thread.
1st may not be that far fetched. In the early 450 days it was common for factory trans to eliminate 1st (and sometimes 5th), effectively making the OEM 2nd gear ratio (or there abouts) into first. Like Time Ferry ran a 3 speed YZ for example.
Ultimately it’s irrelevant, Malcom hit neutral whether that be a real or false one.
He was in first gear.
I think Malcolm saw Chase make the mistake and simply got a little impatient hoping to make the pass therefore missing his shift causing the mistake. Something to consider anyway.
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