DC, PLEASE bring back the large number plates

8/24/2009 10:19pm
I say again, any mud race I have been to, seeing numbers has been a challenge, old or new.

If it makes sponsors happy, do whatever it takes. We have to live in the today and plan for tomorrow, not sit around and dream of how good it used to be.... because look at how the sponsors and coverage used to be!

We should go back to what was working!! is the scream.... yeah because back then we didnt have much so lets do what we did then so we can have what we had then... great thinking.
teggers
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8/25/2009 1:19am Edited Date/Time 8/25/2009 1:19am
Kinda cool that Davey participates in the chat. Not many bosses will put themselves out like that. Davey is straight up though and he will call you on BS. He has lived it.
8/25/2009 6:30am
rpk191 wrote:
[URL=http://img220.imageshack.us/i/searle.jpg/][IMG]http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4790/searle.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I have to say the ktm's are the worst


I have to say the ktm's are the worst
I looked at the full size image and *still* can't tell who his sponsor is.
holeshot100
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8/25/2009 7:43am
See if you can get Monster energy to invest in a huge three sided electronic scoreboard on top {or sides}of their tower they build at every race. Opens up all kinds of exposure for Monster, and they already invested in that huge tower.
The little numbers are great for sponsors.

The Shop

pilotdude
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8/25/2009 8:00am
See if you can get Monster energy to invest in a huge three sided electronic scoreboard on top {or sides}of their tower they build at every...
See if you can get Monster energy to invest in a huge three sided electronic scoreboard on top {or sides}of their tower they build at every race. Opens up all kinds of exposure for Monster, and they already invested in that huge tower.
The little numbers are great for sponsors.
I strongly agree that the 3 sided lit tower idea is smart. It works tremendously well in supercross. I can imagine a Monster Score Tower easily. It seems like a tower like that that everyone would look at for a reason during the race makes more sense than a static banner or sign that just sits there withere your logo on it.
FIREfish148
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8/25/2009 8:09am
The only people that say they like it are either europeans or people that spent their whole allowance on the new trend!! lol am i wrong?
Adam43
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8/25/2009 8:16am
It was worth a try, but its pretty clear its not a good fit for MX.

Even with a nice design, it doesn't really give the sponsor much added visibility. First we have this goofy permanent numbering system forced down our throats, which is supposed to help people ID the riders even easier, then they remove the numbers altogether!

If it ain't broke...
Tiki
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8/25/2009 8:37am
mxbeeb wrote:
I disagree, and I really can't believe the negative reaction that this change has brought. I support ANYTHING that will help bring more sponsorship dollars into...
I disagree, and I really can't believe the negative reaction that this change has brought. I support ANYTHING that will help bring more sponsorship dollars into our sport, even if it means that someone "can't figure out who's in third place for at least 3 laps." What's more important, increased sponsorship dollars for the riders and teams, or not knowing who's in third place for three laps in a muddy moto?

That's a pretty good leg hump right there.
8/25/2009 9:42am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:46am
mxbeeb wrote:
I disagree, and I really can't believe the negative reaction that this change has brought. I support ANYTHING that will help bring more sponsorship dollars into...
I disagree, and I really can't believe the negative reaction that this change has brought. I support ANYTHING that will help bring more sponsorship dollars into our sport, even if it means that someone "can't figure out who's in third place for at least 3 laps." What's more important, increased sponsorship dollars for the riders and teams, or not knowing who's in third place for three laps in a muddy moto?

Tiki wrote:
That's a pretty good leg hump right there.
you run a national, televised series Tiki.

who do you want to cater too.....

1) A sponsor looking for square inch'age with a tv package that entices said sponsors on putting their dollars into our sport as televised advertising? (remember, thats WHY companies spend money on MX and want signage, its ALLLLLL advertising, NOTHING more!!)

2) A bunch of forum boarders that you mention any word that has change in it and immediately its responded to with it used to be, we hate, change bad?

it was a MUD race. Any mudder ANY of us has ever been too or in, seeing numbers, especially white numbers on a black background was a challenge to see, wether they were 3 inches or 8 inches. Because mud has the clarity of.... well.... mud!

In this economy, where riders like Burner are hoping to get a ride paying $100,000 and might not get it, do you really want to lose signage and sponsor dollars? Or do you want someone to come along and enfuse some money and get everyone thru this?

Guys, here is reality, wether we like it or not.... A teams market guy goes to Sponsor X. Says we have had this much tv time this season, we have a solid rider that gets tv time, you can have your logo prominately displayed on the side panel where 87.43% of the tv time showed for $XXX,XXX for the whole season.

Sponsor X then does some market crunching and number crunching. Finds out that MX viewers are within their demographic. Finds out that tv time, per minute would be $YYY,YYY. Then here is a team that has shown they have had Q amount of TV time, its cheap cheap for Sponsor X to fork out money because a 30 second TV slot 6 times a day during demographic friendly shows for 1 week would be this much, but we get 8 months of tv time, including replays, re-airs, live ect for that much, Yes we will spend our money with you.

Now, what do you do? Appease some guys that went to a mud race and had a hard time seeing numbers? Or appease the sponsors because the TV had NO problem identifying riders OR sponsors?

simple answer to me.
8/25/2009 10:43am
you run a national, televised series Tiki. who do you want to cater too..... 1) A sponsor looking for square inch'age with a tv package that...
you run a national, televised series Tiki.

who do you want to cater too.....

1) A sponsor looking for square inch'age with a tv package that entices said sponsors on putting their dollars into our sport as televised advertising? (remember, thats WHY companies spend money on MX and want signage, its ALLLLLL advertising, NOTHING more!!)

2) A bunch of forum boarders that you mention any word that has change in it and immediately its responded to with it used to be, we hate, change bad?

it was a MUD race. Any mudder ANY of us has ever been too or in, seeing numbers, especially white numbers on a black background was a challenge to see, wether they were 3 inches or 8 inches. Because mud has the clarity of.... well.... mud!

In this economy, where riders like Burner are hoping to get a ride paying $100,000 and might not get it, do you really want to lose signage and sponsor dollars? Or do you want someone to come along and enfuse some money and get everyone thru this?

Guys, here is reality, wether we like it or not.... A teams market guy goes to Sponsor X. Says we have had this much tv time this season, we have a solid rider that gets tv time, you can have your logo prominately displayed on the side panel where 87.43% of the tv time showed for $XXX,XXX for the whole season.

Sponsor X then does some market crunching and number crunching. Finds out that MX viewers are within their demographic. Finds out that tv time, per minute would be $YYY,YYY. Then here is a team that has shown they have had Q amount of TV time, its cheap cheap for Sponsor X to fork out money because a 30 second TV slot 6 times a day during demographic friendly shows for 1 week would be this much, but we get 8 months of tv time, including replays, re-airs, live ect for that much, Yes we will spend our money with you.

Now, what do you do? Appease some guys that went to a mud race and had a hard time seeing numbers? Or appease the sponsors because the TV had NO problem identifying riders OR sponsors?

simple answer to me.
You don't get it.. If we can't see the numbers, we can't see the sponsor advertising. Even with the blown up photo of Searles bike, I still can't make out what product he's helping advertise. Worthless.

If they want to promote sponsor products/services, maybe think of other ways of handling this.. like more TV visibility for pits, where sponsors already set up displays.. Scrunching ads into 8 x 10" spots on fast moving bikes isn't doing a thing for spectators.
NetMXer
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8/25/2009 10:59am
All these guys that feel it's worth giving up the number plates to bring in sponsorship dollars just don't get it.
90% of the riders on the starting line never get seen on TV. That means no matter what sponsors stickers they put on their plates, they won't be seen by ANYONE. You can't see them in person and you certainly won't see them on TV because they aren't in the top 2 or 3 riders.
If there is a need for more surface area on the bike to put sponsor logo's then make more surface area. Don't steal some space that was designed to be used for side numbers just so you can say you're selling more advertising area.
There's absolutely no reason why we can't have large side numbers and additional space added somewhere on the bike for Joe Plumbers sticker.
8/25/2009 11:41am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:46am
sigh.... we dont get it.

Let me make this as simple as possible.

Sponsor X. We have 2 side panels we can put your name on. You will get Y amount of TV for 8 months at a cost of Z. or... we wont even talk to you because we dont have anything to sell you

Reality is, it doesnt matter if you can see it or NOT.. damn. Its AVAILABILITY!!!!!! ITS THERE !!!!

go look at a cup car. See all those stickers that are 5 inchs wide by 1 inch tall? NOONE CAN SEE THOSE EITHER at 200mph!!!! But companies PAY to be able to put them there, why? Because at SOME point, you will get a glimps of it, it will be on tv, the largest advertising medium ever created, and it will be TONS cheaper than buying an add slot!

we dont get it. IF ITS NOT AVAILABLE FOR RENT, YOU CANT RENT IT! Its called clever marketing and its a HUGE game.

Sponsor X, our team was shown for a total of 21 minutes last year on national television.
For $500,000, you can be a large sponsor. For that price, you will get 2 squar feet of prime real estate on our bike and be made mention of when they talk about the team because it will be the sponsor X honda racing team. For 8 months, the people you directly want to market too will see your name, hear your name, on tv.

or

you can purchase a 1 minute ad slot during that broadcast to reach your target audience and it will cost you $75,000 per slot... how many do you want? 8? ok 8 1 minute slots, thats 8 races, send us a check for $600,000 for your 1 time a week, for 8 weeks add placement.

can you comprehend that?

I bet you guys think all those little stickers on rear fenders, front fenders, fork guards, and air boxes are just there to look cool also? Guess what, those were PAID for to be there in SOME way! Not just so a rider or team can have a cool looking bike. If it wasnt paid for in some way, it wont be there. And this isnt even including print media were all those stickers CAN be seen, webcasts where all those can be mentioned, interviews where the riders say them!

NetMXer
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8/25/2009 11:46am
What you don't get is that there is no need to steal the space on the side number plates just to make more advertising area. Like I said in my earlier post, if you've got more sponsors than space available, then make more space.
Heck, about 10 years ago, someone was selling full body panels for a bike, just for this reason. Where are they now?
8/25/2009 12:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:46am
NetMXer wrote:
What you don't get is that there is no need to steal the space on the side number plates just to make more advertising area. Like...
What you don't get is that there is no need to steal the space on the side number plates just to make more advertising area. Like I said in my earlier post, if you've got more sponsors than space available, then make more space.
Heck, about 10 years ago, someone was selling full body panels for a bike, just for this reason. Where are they now?
hey, talk to the teams, if they could do the body panels, they would, not my call, I am talking about reality as it is NOW.

I have seen over the years that the panels created a few problems, mainly with heat build up, and that was on cooler running 2 smokes, so I have no idea what it would do on a 4 banger. Thats a team call and as far as I know, you cant get the panels now can you?

But the side plates, for all practical purposes, are wasted space when they have to use all of it for numbers because TV has electronic means to track riders, show WHO they are to the 150,000 tv viewers. (i hope that number is WAY low, probably is, just using it as a reference)

So, we can keep large numbers on the side, and make 3000 of the 15,000 people at the race track itself happy they can see a number easily as it goes by.... or we can make sponsors happy because the tv broadcast shows who is who, gets the ad placement on tv, and 150,000 people know who is who, who sponsors them AND "riders just dont make enough!!!" get riders paid better... all for some creative marketing real estate on a side panel the 150,000 people at home dont give a ratz ass about because Weege just said who the hell it is and youre following the action, and thinking I bet GEICO has some good insurance.
8/25/2009 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2009 12:23pm
Here, perfect example. TLD team. They would have NO real estate to use if you had to use the entire side plate for numbers. But here comes Lucas Oil. Hey Lucas, we can offer up 2 square feet of real estate.... wow, now we can goto more races than before and pay the riders to do it and not lose money to do it! PERFECT example!

but, I guess I am starting to see the light... I retract all I have said, you guys that numbers are right! I would much rather have not seen Jake Moss racing more, he would have gotten the Kawi deal without racing hardly any outdoors. /end sarcasm

guys, its simple. More room for sponsors, more racers racing and getting paid to do it. You cant have more, especially in this economy, without making some consessions. And if that price is making a few people upset because of a 3 inch number vs a 5 inch number, but the money is coming in by using that space wouldnt be there if you didnt have that space... tough, deal with it.
Titan
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8/25/2009 12:19pm
NetMXer wrote:
All these guys that feel it's worth giving up the number plates to bring in sponsorship dollars just don't get it. 90% of the riders on...
All these guys that feel it's worth giving up the number plates to bring in sponsorship dollars just don't get it.
90% of the riders on the starting line never get seen on TV. That means no matter what sponsors stickers they put on their plates, they won't be seen by ANYONE. You can't see them in person and you certainly won't see them on TV because they aren't in the top 2 or 3 riders.
If there is a need for more surface area on the bike to put sponsor logo's then make more surface area. Don't steal some space that was designed to be used for side numbers just so you can say you're selling more advertising area.
There's absolutely no reason why we can't have large side numbers and additional space added somewhere on the bike for Joe Plumbers sticker.
Are you all forgetting print advertising and race coverage?

That is where I see all the sponsors of the teams...in the mags, on the internet in race coverage and the STILL PHOTOS of the bikes that go with it.

You're right, when a bike comes by at 45 mph, I can't see their sponsors names...but when guyb takes a photo of that bike (at closer range, and/or zoomed in) and posts it on his web page, NOW I can see the sponsors.

Not to mention the TV side of it that borna'lil2slow has expertly covered.

And if by running smaller numbers it frees up more real estate for the teams to sell to sponsors...then it is a good thing. The teams need that revenue (certainly during a poor economy). And if I have to be confused for a lap or three about who is who (though it has NEVER taken me that long to deterimine who a rider is), I'll take that confusion to help the sport.
vetarider
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8/25/2009 12:39pm
NetMXer wrote:
What you don't get is that there is no need to steal the space on the side number plates just to make more advertising area. Like...
What you don't get is that there is no need to steal the space on the side number plates just to make more advertising area. Like I said in my earlier post, if you've got more sponsors than space available, then make more space.
Heck, about 10 years ago, someone was selling full body panels for a bike, just for this reason. Where are they now?
Did someone ask for "SKINZ"?



Wasn't that the name of those things? Pic from Craigslist. Not mine. Just a visual aid...

Chris
8/25/2009 1:32pm
yep, they were out around 90? 91? I just remember that On the Line Racing used them for photo ops and maybe a race or 2, never caught on. I remember there were a few issues back in the day with them, main one was heat buildup in the motor and shock res. There was also a cracking issue with the lexan, cost was a mentioned factor.

today, those last 2 could easily be handled. The heat though... when you have everyone scrambling for huge'er radiators now, and huge shrouds with extra "scoops" to get even more air... not to mention heat build up to the gas tank which has been a problem... not sure if they are feasible.
Devil1nNj
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8/25/2009 1:45pm
yep, they were out around 90? 91? I just remember that On the Line Racing used them for photo ops and maybe a race or 2...
yep, they were out around 90? 91? I just remember that On the Line Racing used them for photo ops and maybe a race or 2, never caught on. I remember there were a few issues back in the day with them, main one was heat buildup in the motor and shock res. There was also a cracking issue with the lexan, cost was a mentioned factor.

today, those last 2 could easily be handled. The heat though... when you have everyone scrambling for huge'er radiators now, and huge shrouds with extra "scoops" to get even more air... not to mention heat build up to the gas tank which has been a problem... not sure if they are feasible.
They were also re-turdedly stupid looking.
Sponsors advertise to sell things. No one is going to look at a stupid ass looking bike and want to buy anything on it.

I will admit that after reading your posts, I changed my opinion on the issue and have to agree with your points. At some time, or another, people will see the sponsor. Especially in photo's which all of us moto heads love. Point taken.
If only there was another way. We need our side panel numbers, fronts get muddy, and unless you're there live, it's tough to catch the Jersey Number.
And dude, the Road Racing looking fiber glass sides will never cut it. I feel bad for the guy who thought of it, because it seems like a viable solution, but the reality is we love the look of our bikes, people will not sacrifice looks for practicality .
Where do we go from here?
8/25/2009 3:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:46am
where we go from here... to me its easy. (my dad was a huge KISS method guy, keep it simple stupid) .......

You keep building momentum. You dont try to reinvent the wheel, you just keep polishing it. More sponsor exposure, more tv, more tv, more sponsors... end result, more riders, more rides, better pay, and a better product.
Tiki
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8/25/2009 3:01pm
Where do we go from here?

Supercross - sponsor friendly, spectator friendly, family friendly most of all Television friendly. Add a pit stop, less heat races make the ones you have longer, much longer. Hire a real marketing agency and invite real dollars from outside the sport. You all want a circus, there is a reason why it is kept in a tent. Focused attention. Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig, arguing the fact that professional racing needs every dollar from every tit to be sucked from and start at the ground level. I love MX, so dont read this as me trying to stab it in the back, this is the reason SX came about.

As for what we currently have, I am fine with it, would like to see bigger numbers, larger then the inch size numbers that are cramed in with everyone else. There is no value there, it is nothing more then banner ads on ebay at that point. Moreover I dont think the side panels aren't bringing any additional dollars in, rather value addition to the existing programs. I could care less either way, but for the record that was some great ass kissing/leg humping being done by the Racerx boys.
8/25/2009 3:19pm
not sure how you equate ass kissing with sound marketing theory and strategy, but, hey, it takes all kinds. I dont give a flying eff where a good idea comes from, as long as it works, and this sport gets the recognition it and its athletes deserve, I dont care who comes up with the idea.

rpk191
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8/25/2009 3:34pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2009 3:39pm
See if you can get Monster energy to invest in a huge three sided electronic scoreboard on top {or sides}of their tower they build at every...
See if you can get Monster energy to invest in a huge three sided electronic scoreboard on top {or sides}of their tower they build at every race. Opens up all kinds of exposure for Monster, and they already invested in that huge tower.
The little numbers are great for sponsors.
+1
they should put that on top of that big tower. every race that I've been to it seems to be in a good location.
AJ
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8/25/2009 10:30pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:46am
Wasn't one of the better ideas already covered?

and seemed like a decent compromise ?




its not like two sets of side plates kills a teams (or privateers) budget


a static photo and *in the pits* set of plates with sponsors (and tiny numbers)

and * race set* with regular 8" numbers.



so now you can go back to arguing over wether the AMA guy,the one with the watch standing near her every race start,

told the 30 second girl when to turn the sign , or if she did it on her own...


:p




ProMed
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8/25/2009 10:50pm
DC, can we bring back twin shocks as well? Air-cooled engines would be sweet too... and better for the environment!
teggers
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8/25/2009 10:59pm
NetMXer wrote:
I was sitting 20 yards from the track on Saturday and couldn't tell who the Kawasaki rider was in third place for at least 3 laps...
I was sitting 20 yards from the track on Saturday and couldn't tell who the Kawasaki rider was in third place for at least 3 laps. The front plates were muddy and the side plates are so small, us old guys can't read them.
Please help us geezers out and put some side numbers on the bikes that we can read. If thats not possible, how about passing out hand held scanners so we can read the transponders as the riders go past.
I have not read anything in this post but the title.....

I agree.
SteveS
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8/26/2009 6:16am
8" numbers? Wow. Sizes get inflated in the telling even here!
vetarider
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8/26/2009 6:35am
ProMed wrote:
DC, can we bring back twin shocks as well? Air-cooled engines would be sweet too... and better for the environment!
Fine example of air cooled and big 'ol numbers



Chris Walton
vetarider
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8/26/2009 6:38am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:47am
Another fine example of big 'ol numbers...


Charlotte Supercross 1997




vetarider
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8/26/2009 6:50am Edited Date/Time 8/26/2009 6:51am

Post a reply to: DC, PLEASE bring back the large number plates

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