With both riders still in their prime who wins?

MotoCosmo
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MotoCosmo 11/7/2022 7:21am
11/7/2022 7:21am
I'm wondering how we can derail this thread with Jeffrey Herlings and turn it into an AMA vs. MXGP shit show?
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bonseff
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bonseff 11/7/2022 7:28am
11/7/2022 7:28am
Yea but what if we sent Brandon to train with Aldon for a couple weeks... WHAT THEN?
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 11/7/2022 7:34am
11/7/2022 7:34am
resetjet wrote:
I think thats a major reason why he retired. He knew stew was gonna push him somewhere he did not want to go, and he knew...
I think thats a major reason why he retired. He knew stew was gonna push him somewhere he did not want to go, and he knew he would go there.
wreckitrandy wrote:
RC played James (outdoors) like a drum. He pushed Bubba into massive crashes and yeah,,,, it was strategic, intentional. Ricky would say things, 'fmotp' for instance...
RC played James (outdoors) like a drum. He pushed Bubba into massive crashes and yeah,,,, it was strategic, intentional. Ricky would say things, 'fmotp' for instance, knowing that James would try to live up to it. RC tries to come off as modest (except towards Emig) because it's more endearing but, he put his foot on the throat of this sport for a decade. He might be standing on a box in the announcing booth, but he's the measuring stick, the high watermark, the bull of the woods, as far as motocross racers go. To deny it is the grand delusion.
fourfourone wrote:
Tomac would wax him. Level today is higher that it was 15 years ago.
So Dungey can take 5 years off and run in the top 5 but the level is higher? When Dungey was the national champion, RC would work him until he got tired while he was fat and out of shape.
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tomlopez
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tomlopez 11/7/2022 7:48am
11/7/2022 7:48am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2022 7:48am
creature654 wrote:
Most likely RC over a full season, but he never would’ve even come close to 24-0 with a prime Eli out there
This is the most realistic answer. RC proved over the course of a decade that he simply won't lose to anyone after a full season in MX, no matter how fast they are, so I think it would be safe to bet on him to win a 24-round championship against Tomac. But prime Tomac is wayyy too good to get beat every single race. He would win a few motos, maybe a couple of overalls. But his bad days would be 4ths & 5ths, RC's worst day would be a 2nd behind Tomac.
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 11/7/2022 8:18am
11/7/2022 8:18am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2022 11:47am
MotoCosmo wrote:
I'm wondering how we can derail this thread with Jeffrey Herlings and turn it into an AMA vs. MXGP shit show?
Easy peasy.... Herlings is a variation of James. Stupid speed. Neither ever read the Ake Jonsson book. Result? Both took themselves out of titles they should have easily won. RC may not have "preparated" for public speaking well enough to suit some of you but, he was at least smart enough to surround himself with and take advice from, incredibly smart or at minimum, experienced people while he was racing. Result? Undefeated outdoor CAREER.
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fourfourone
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fourfourone 11/7/2022 9:02am
11/7/2022 9:02am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2022 9:07am
wreckitrandy wrote:
RC played James (outdoors) like a drum. He pushed Bubba into massive crashes and yeah,,,, it was strategic, intentional. Ricky would say things, 'fmotp' for instance...
RC played James (outdoors) like a drum. He pushed Bubba into massive crashes and yeah,,,, it was strategic, intentional. Ricky would say things, 'fmotp' for instance, knowing that James would try to live up to it. RC tries to come off as modest (except towards Emig) because it's more endearing but, he put his foot on the throat of this sport for a decade. He might be standing on a box in the announcing booth, but he's the measuring stick, the high watermark, the bull of the woods, as far as motocross racers go. To deny it is the grand delusion.
fourfourone wrote:
Tomac would wax him. Level today is higher that it was 15 years ago.
wreckitrandy wrote:
So Dungey can take 5 years off and run in the top 5 but the level is higher? When Dungey was the national champion, RC would...
So Dungey can take 5 years off and run in the top 5 but the level is higher? When Dungey was the national champion, RC would work him until he got tired while he was fat and out of shape.


Dungey in his prime was on the podium or winning 95% of the time 5 years ago.

Comes out of retirement and ran top 5 a few times but mostly was a top 10 guy.

MX isn't even in the same ball park it was 15 years ago. Let alone 5 years ago.
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Forty
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Forty 11/7/2022 9:19am
11/7/2022 9:19am
I like RC in this match up.
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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 11/7/2022 9:58am
11/7/2022 9:58am
What if they were both on jr 50s with clogged air filters ?
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c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 11/7/2022 10:31am
11/7/2022 10:31am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2022 10:32am
I'll play along.

People forget how good RC really was. Never lost an outdoor championship, undefeated seasons, most overall wins, ect.

He didn't do all that by playing smart and taking podiums. He did it by decimating the entire field basically every race. He was the most dominant outdoor rider we will ever see in this sport.
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scottydogmx 11/7/2022 10:39am
11/7/2022 10:39am
I really Evil don't care
Just post some more vids of them rinsing a 2 smoke
With smello vision if you can please!Evil Cool
davis224
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davis224 11/7/2022 10:42am
11/7/2022 10:42am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
What if they were both on jr 50s with clogged air filters ?
RC and James vs Eli and Roczen in a potato sack race, who wins?
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 11/7/2022 12:05pm
11/7/2022 12:05pm
The thing that people in the future will point to with RC is the lack of titles his competitors had. But here’s the thing, his competitors would of had a lot more titles if RC didn’t win everything from 97-06.

You can say “oh he was only racing Kdub, Chad, and Ferry” well, think of how many titles they would have if RC wasn’t there. Kevin is a 5-time (97, 01, 03, 05, 06) motocross champ without RC. Same amount as Eli!

MC was before him as well, further hoarding the titles from guys like DV and Ezra

In fact, MC and RC were so dominant for so long that by 2009 there were only two previous 450 champs in the entire class. Chad and James.
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Dirt.Squirt
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Dirt.Squirt 11/7/2022 12:09pm
11/7/2022 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 11/7/2022 5:11pm
What year did they start testing for PEDS in Mx/sx?

Also what year did rc retire?
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 11/7/2022 12:13pm
11/7/2022 12:13pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
What if they were both on jr 50s with clogged air filters ?
davis224 wrote:
RC and James vs Eli and Roczen in a potato sack race, who wins?
How can anyone, with clear conscience, pick RC in any athletic endeavor other than the discipline that he OWNED? Now, if you pair him with VF, there's at least a chance that whomever they face is gonna come up limpin'. All bets are off!
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Johnny Ringo 11/7/2022 12:17pm
11/7/2022 12:17pm
Dirt.Squirt wrote:
What year did they start testing for PEDS in Mx/sx?

Also what year did rc retire?
Some libelous shit there
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Shred
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Shred 11/7/2022 12:18pm
11/7/2022 12:18pm
In this scenario does vince or barcia get the start and beat them to the first turn…. or at least within a half of a bike length going in to said first turn? ….or any rider that vince has paid off?
brimx153
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brimx153 11/7/2022 1:47pm
11/7/2022 1:47pm
fourfourone wrote:
Tomac would wax him. Level today is higher that it was 15 years ago.
wreckitrandy wrote:
So Dungey can take 5 years off and run in the top 5 but the level is higher? When Dungey was the national champion, RC would...
So Dungey can take 5 years off and run in the top 5 but the level is higher? When Dungey was the national champion, RC would work him until he got tired while he was fat and out of shape.
fourfourone wrote:
Dungey in his prime was on the podium or winning 95% of the time 5 years ago. Comes out of retirement and ran top 5 a...


Dungey in his prime was on the podium or winning 95% of the time 5 years ago.

Comes out of retirement and ran top 5 a few times but mostly was a top 10 guy.

MX isn't even in the same ball park it was 15 years ago. Let alone 5 years ago.
He was around the top 5 every race .with loads of 4ths .he beat Eli in a race too. The idea the speed is so much higher is bull .
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 11/7/2022 5:27pm
11/7/2022 5:27pm
Will the sport ever see someone dominate like RC and James did, 24-0?

If you say no, you’re admitting the playing field is deeper now and they only looked so fast because the sport was less mature; don’t forget the 24-0 was against Tim Ferry. He’s great, but no Sexton. Anyways, if this is your take, you can’t say RC easily beats Tomac then.

If you say yes, someone will dominate again, it just takes someone better than Tomac to do it, that’s compatible with saying RC would win.

I just don’t see another person going 24-0, so my take it the field is deeper and there is more parity, so it’s really hard to compare Tomac to RC.

Having said that, my money is on RC though. He was a bad dude.
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 11/7/2022 6:03pm
11/7/2022 6:03pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
Will the sport ever see someone dominate like RC and James did, 24-0? If you say no, you’re admitting the playing field is deeper now and...
Will the sport ever see someone dominate like RC and James did, 24-0?

If you say no, you’re admitting the playing field is deeper now and they only looked so fast because the sport was less mature; don’t forget the 24-0 was against Tim Ferry. He’s great, but no Sexton. Anyways, if this is your take, you can’t say RC easily beats Tomac then.

If you say yes, someone will dominate again, it just takes someone better than Tomac to do it, that’s compatible with saying RC would win.

I just don’t see another person going 24-0, so my take it the field is deeper and there is more parity, so it’s really hard to compare Tomac to RC.

Having said that, my money is on RC though. He was a bad dude.
Not necessarily. One could argue that it's less about the depth of the field and more about the inconsistency or, unforced errors, of the top guys. I think Sexton and Ferry are actually tied on titles at this point.
Bingslayer 11/7/2022 7:19pm
11/7/2022 7:19pm
Per race? I’m going to go against the grain here and say that Ricky would not have perfect seasons if tomac was on the gate.

Per season? Just shut the fuck up already, that’s not even a question. He is the goat .
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NorCalRedRyder 11/7/2022 9:13pm
11/7/2022 9:13pm
Bingslayer wrote:
Per race? I’m going to go against the grain here and say that Ricky would not have perfect seasons if tomac was on the gate. Per...
Per race? I’m going to go against the grain here and say that Ricky would not have perfect seasons if tomac was on the gate.

Per season? Just shut the fuck up already, that’s not even a question. He is the goat .
Relax buddy. I said 1 30 minute moto in their primes on 250 2 strokes because of the video I posted. I thought it was an interesting topic, I didn't think everyone would get so bent out of shape about it. Lighten up guys.
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Thisusernameisavailable 11/7/2022 11:03pm
11/7/2022 11:03pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
Will the sport ever see someone dominate like RC and James did, 24-0? If you say no, you’re admitting the playing field is deeper now and...
Will the sport ever see someone dominate like RC and James did, 24-0?

If you say no, you’re admitting the playing field is deeper now and they only looked so fast because the sport was less mature; don’t forget the 24-0 was against Tim Ferry. He’s great, but no Sexton. Anyways, if this is your take, you can’t say RC easily beats Tomac then.

If you say yes, someone will dominate again, it just takes someone better than Tomac to do it, that’s compatible with saying RC would win.

I just don’t see another person going 24-0, so my take it the field is deeper and there is more parity, so it’s really hard to compare Tomac to RC.

Having said that, my money is on RC though. He was a bad dude.
wreckitrandy wrote:
Not necessarily. One could argue that it's less about the depth of the field and more about the inconsistency or, unforced errors, of the top guys...
Not necessarily. One could argue that it's less about the depth of the field and more about the inconsistency or, unforced errors, of the top guys. I think Sexton and Ferry are actually tied on titles at this point.
Agreed.

Likewise, if Tomac was able to find lets say another 3 seconds per lap and every one else remained the same, would this mean the field is LESS deep?

Or let’s say Carmichael was 3 seconds a lap SLOWER, but still won, would this mean the field was MORE deep?

No, neither statement is correct.
KiwiBermRailer 11/7/2022 11:05pm
11/7/2022 11:05pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
What if they were both on jr 50s with clogged air filters ?
Herlings would wax them both in the sand on jr50s.
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Phillip_Lamb
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Phillip_Lamb 11/8/2022 7:36am
11/8/2022 7:36am
on a single day, with a rider at their peak.

Eli beats anyone. RC was indomitable, and mentally he was so solid, but technique wasn't great, he was great where it mattered but watching him wasnt pleasant.

JS7 has intense speed and he brought along very good technique that allowed more speed on smaller bikes, on a 450, because of the weight and torque, he couldnt ride as aggresive as he had been doing growing up on 125's and 250 two strokes as he rode over the front of the bike a lot.

Eli hands down has to be one of the best Open bike riders ever. he rides it like its a small bore and he manhandles it. and the way he rides, he is more neutral than JS7
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Muttly
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Muttly 11/8/2022 7:43am
11/8/2022 7:43am
Dirt.Squirt wrote:
What year did they start testing for PEDS in Mx/sx?

Also what year did rc retire?
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Some libelous shit there
Not really. Just look at “RC” the amateur to “RC” after he met Aldon Baker.
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 11/8/2022 8:05am
11/8/2022 8:05am
Dirt.Squirt wrote:
What year did they start testing for PEDS in Mx/sx?

Also what year did rc retire?
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Some libelous shit there
Muttly wrote:
Not really. Just look at “RC” the amateur to “RC” after he met Aldon Baker.
Look at him now... Do you think he's still on the sauce? Do me a favor. Call Chad Watts and voice your opinion. Then, come back here and relay his response.
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Muttly
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Muttly 11/8/2022 8:41am
11/8/2022 8:41am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Some libelous shit there
Muttly wrote:
Not really. Just look at “RC” the amateur to “RC” after he met Aldon Baker.
wreckitrandy wrote:
Look at him now... Do you think he's still on the sauce? Do me a favor. Call Chad Watts and voice your opinion. Then, come back...
Look at him now... Do you think he's still on the sauce? Do me a favor. Call Chad Watts and voice your opinion. Then, come back here and relay his response.
So when the Cubs tell me that Sammy Sosa’s not using, I should believe them?
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Mick 22
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Mick 22 11/8/2022 9:01am
11/8/2022 9:01am
Stupid question, no body betters the GOAT.
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 11/8/2022 12:33pm
11/8/2022 12:33pm
Muttly wrote:
Not really. Just look at “RC” the amateur to “RC” after he met Aldon Baker.
wreckitrandy wrote:
Look at him now... Do you think he's still on the sauce? Do me a favor. Call Chad Watts and voice your opinion. Then, come back...
Look at him now... Do you think he's still on the sauce? Do me a favor. Call Chad Watts and voice your opinion. Then, come back here and relay his response.
Muttly wrote:
So when the Cubs tell me that Sammy Sosa’s not using, I should believe them?
Chad and RC didn't end on the best of terms.... Can you see the difference? Of course, everyone could just take your word for it since it's you and everything....
Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 11/8/2022 2:34pm
11/8/2022 2:34pm
wreckitrandy wrote:
Look at him now... Do you think he's still on the sauce? Do me a favor. Call Chad Watts and voice your opinion. Then, come back...
Look at him now... Do you think he's still on the sauce? Do me a favor. Call Chad Watts and voice your opinion. Then, come back here and relay his response.
Muttly wrote:
So when the Cubs tell me that Sammy Sosa’s not using, I should believe them?
wreckitrandy wrote:
Chad and RC didn't end on the best of terms.... Can you see the difference? Of course, everyone could just take your word for it since...
Chad and RC didn't end on the best of terms.... Can you see the difference? Of course, everyone could just take your word for it since it's you and everything....
I agree with everything you said, but the guy was on the sauce.
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