Owning & Operating MX Track

Love4Moto wrote:

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and...

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and yes it is hard work sun up to sun down and the return is obviously minimal for a while, but I'm trying to understand why this is what eveyone says. Obviously it's the truth or this many people wouldn't be saying these things. Either that or it's just that that all these people have done their research, just like I have, and are just discouraging themselves into moving forward, based on what everyone is saying.

dirtbikemike wrote:

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have...

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have you been at a track from Thursday through Monday working your ass off for little or no pay? Get back to us when you do that because that will be your life as a track owner at a minimum.

Love4Moto wrote:

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and...

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and yes it is hard work sun up to sun down and the return is obviously minimal for a while, but I'm trying to understand why this is what eveyone says. Obviously it's the truth or this many people wouldn't be saying these things. Either that or it's just that that all these people have done their research, just like I have, and are just discouraging themselves into moving forward, based on what everyone is saying.

dirtbikemike wrote:

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have...

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have you been at a track from Thursday through Monday working your ass off for little or no pay? Get back to us when you do that because that will be your life as a track owner at a minimum.

Love4Moto wrote:

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and...

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and yes it is hard work sun up to sun down and the return is obviously minimal for a while, but I'm trying to understand why this is what eveyone says. Obviously it's the truth or this many people wouldn't be saying these things. Either that or it's just that that all these people have done their research, just like I have, and are just discouraging themselves into moving forward, based on what everyone is saying.

dirtbikemike wrote:

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have...

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have you been at a track from Thursday through Monday working your ass off for little or no pay? Get back to us when you do that because that will be your life as a track owner at a minimum.

dirtbikemike wrote:

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have...

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have you been at a track from Thursday through Monday working your ass off for little or no pay? Get back to us when you do that because that will be your life as a track owner at a minimum.

huck wrote:

I thought owning tracks and promoting races was all glamorous!?! This guy seems like he's rolling in it... ;) [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/10/24/574338/s1200_Screen_Shot_2022_10_24_at_3.58.47_PM.jpg[/img]

I thought owning tracks and promoting races was all glamorous!?! This guy seems like he's rolling in it...

dirtbikemike wrote:

Yep, I'm rolling it in alright. Nothing like a rusty hydraulic line to slow down progress building a track for a fairgrounds race. We did get...

Yep, I'm rolling it in alright. Nothing like a rusty hydraulic line to slow down progress building a track for a fairgrounds race. We did get it fixed and had a great event. Why don't you call me David and we'll do it again for 12 more years. It's easy, just pile up some mounds of dirt and people will give you wads of money to ride on it.

JustMX wrote:

Then don't ask for advice and expect it all to be positive. But hey, you have a business plan in a business you know absolutely nothing...

Then don't ask for advice and expect it all to be positive.

But hey, you have a business plan in a business you know absolutely nothing about so what do we know.

I like hamburgers, but I can admit I know nothing about what it takes to run a restaurant.

People that know the business aren't being negative because they are worried about you opening a track in Missouri. They are telling you exactly what they wished somebody had told them.

I worked at tracks full time from 1987 until 1996 before going out on my own and running over 400 racing events, and about twice that many organized practice days, plus helping other promoters up until 2014.

I ran equipment at nationals and LL's for about 8 years as well. I still work an occasional race for Victory sports when I can fit it into my schedule.

So please understand when I say. You are clueless.

I agree with other posters here. Start with a fenced track, work on a way to water, and understand it will take 10 times the water that you think it will. Get help with your original layout focusing on drainage.

Open one day a week until you get your track prep down and minimal staff to operate an organized practice. Then open both days of the weekend and narrow your time frame down enough to keep from having to make multiple trips with your water truck for the 5 guys that can't make it out before 2 pm. If you do that right most will make an effort to come when you are open and you will not have to spend a thursday waiting for nobody to show, or worse have 3 guys show up and then bitch on every possible platform how the track wasn't fully prepped.

Bathrooms are nice, but they are a huge investment, and you will find that a lot of people will not appreciate them enough to keep from washing their muddy gear in the sinks. Same thing goes for hook ups. Have a water fill spigot and if you have septic somewhere on the property plumb in a dump station. It would take years to cover the expense of electrical right now. add all that later if you still think you need it a couple years from now.

Don't buy a bunch of inventory for your "moto" shop. Never did that but know plenty that did. Even back before online shopping got big they would come in and size the gear and then buy it at chaparral or some other discount house so they could save $10. the boots and clothes you try to stock will get worn out from people trying them on.
Maybe stock some levers, plugs and oils,

Don't mess with concessions unless you really, really like hot dogs and nachos, because when it rains unexpectedly on a Saturday morning, you will be living off your inventory. Sub it out to a food truck or charity, and don't worry about the money until you get established and actually have some turnout.

Now, get to know somebody that is familiar with stormwater runoff and environmental requirements in the area where you are planning to build. Not every state is as stupid as California, but it is spreading. You need to know this,and understand that you can get away with stuff when used for agricultural that will cause problems for tracks.
Nothing will squash your dreams like having an environmental enforcement officer wearing a sidearm tell you that you need to spend $50k for civil engineering work before you can proceed, or face $10k fines/day, per violation.

If the land is in your name or a relative's, you will need to take steps to protect that from litigation. Even doing stuff like letting you use their equipment can get them named in a lawsuit. Get to know a lawyer familiar with the laws in the state where you are doing it, not a moto forum where most are gung-ho for you.to go for it because they are clueless also.

Be diligent on all things concerning liability. Post direction signs on your track. Come up with a way to keep somebody that has not signed a release off the track. Better yet, don't let them through the gate unless they have signed a release. Control pit riding. People will think you are an asshole, but the cost of not being strict can be severe. Don't believe it when people on here say that a release isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Yes, anybody can file a lawsuit, but a good release can make the difference between it being dismissed or losing a lot, possibly everything.

And understand this, that no matter how hard you work and plan, and all the steps you take to provide a safe place to ride, people will get hurt, and there may even be fatalities. you will most likely end up in court, and that will age you and there is a good chance it will suck every bit of enjoyment out of a sport that you live and breathe, if all the first year riders telling you how to run your track, and insisting that you need some huge gap jumps "to separate the men from boys" doesn't do that first.

On the other hand, if you are ever lucky enough to get it off the ground and have an awesome day with a great turnout, no transports, and people stop to tell you how great it was and thank you, it is like a drug that you have to have the next weekend.

peltier626 wrote:

Before you do anything else go donate your time at an operating track for a few months.

Love4Moto wrote:

My dream has been to own and operate a motocross track since the time I hit my first jump. Everything I can find from previous forums...

My dream has been to own and operate a motocross track since the time I hit my first jump. Everything I can find from previous forums is all negative. If there was no way to make money in the sport then there would be no tracks that are open to the public. There has to be a way to make this a successful business even when starting with no land or even nothing, but I'M not.

My Father-in-Law has 185 acres that I'm currently living on, with the option to buy as much of it as I'd like (for a killer price these days). We are in the country and have checked with the county on noise and zoning laws in my area, and they say I'm in a spot to where owning and operating a track is very possible.

My Father-in-Law also has all the equipment necessary to prep and re-design the track. He would let me use this equipment for the track, but would charge me a fee to use it, that and I would have to pay for fuel and if I needed to have one of his guys operate the machinery, I would be required to pay them for their time as well. The only thing we are missing is the water truck.

I have a solid business plan and a couple of people to back me when it comes to a down payment for the business loan. I know people say if you dont own the land outright the track will not be profitable, but there has to be a way.

The plan is to have a shop with bathrooms, concessions, mechanic, and OEM and aftermarket parts counter at this motocross track. A track for the big bikes and main events, and a "kids" track for beginners and 65cc and under bikes. I plan on having camper hookups for race weekends and overnighters that want to stay for more than 1 day of riding. as well as lights and bleachers for night time riding and spectating.

Is there anyone out there that might have some new insight on how to make this all possible and profitable in todays world?

Racerx930 wrote:

I've owned race tracks for 12 years. We went from our best year ever to our worst year ever. If you do it, do it because...

I've owned race tracks for 12 years. We went from our best year ever to our worst year ever. If you do it, do it because you love it. That's all I can say on the subject.

Racerx930 wrote:

I've owned race tracks for 12 years. We went from our best year ever to our worst year ever. If you do it, do it because...

I've owned race tracks for 12 years. We went from our best year ever to our worst year ever. If you do it, do it because you love it. That's all I can say on the subject.

Motor Cross wrote:

Track owner is always subject to the demand constraints of a very niche and fickle local market. And always one major repair away from losing 2-3...

Track owner is always subject to the demand constraints of a very niche and fickle local market. And always one major repair away from losing 2-3 years of operating profits.

And what happens when you have one practice day or race with a bad prep or dusty conditions? Now this fickle local market defames you and conspires to drag your customer base away out of jealousy or otherwise. This has actually happened to the majority of track owners I've known

Racerx930 wrote:

It's literally like you've played this game before.

Racerx930 wrote:

The tracks I see doing the best at the moment are the ones who have been around since the 80-90's and are bought and paid for...

The tracks I see doing the best at the moment are the ones who have been around since the 80-90's and are bought and paid for during the prime of moto, at least in this region. Then I see some tracks that are literally losing thousands of dollars every time they open the gate that people think are killing it. Perceptions a crazy thing.

Motor Cross wrote:

Just because you love the sport and think owning a track will be an enjoyable way to make a living, doesn't mean you shouldn't come at...

Just because you love the sport and think owning a track will be an enjoyable way to make a living, doesn't mean you shouldn't come at this venture the same way you would for any other large investment / business purchase. Make a excel pro-forma cash flow. What will your acquisition costs be? Operating expenses? Revenue streams?

Ultimately from my understanding owning a track is going to be hugely dependent on localized supply and demand. How many tracks are in your area? How many local riders are in the area? The answer is that supply and demand is going to be much better in NJ or CA than it will be an AL or AR. The downside is the land cost will be much higher in those better markets.

Go to a local track in your area for a weekday practice and a local race. Gauge how many riders really make up the local market. The key to success is going to be diversifying income streams. Frequent hare scramble events, Friday night supercross races, practice days, and several races a year. The key here is going to be how many races can you even get in a year? Are you prepared to run outlaw? Don't expect your local series to roll out the red carpet for you.

Lets try this breakdown. $250k for the land. Another $150k for essential infrastructure and used equipment. The land will still appreciate but you may have $40-50k a year in equipment depreciation and repair.

30 riders at $30 a head would be $900 in revenue for a practice day but you're probably going to be out $400 in gas to prep the track. So $500 a practice you would need 20 of those a year to make $10k profit from practice.

Race days probably get you $10-20k in profit but how many will you actually get in a year with a sizeable entry? My guess would be 4-5. So lets say $15k times 5 thats $75k a year. Plus your practice profit, you could be looking at $80-85k a year profit. Now subtract property taxes and equipment repair and depreciation. Seems like you're looking at $30-40k a year net profit. Thats assuming everything goes well and you don't end up with noise complaints or a durhamtown style lawsuit.

Then you have to ask yourself: "Is all my effort working and maintaining the track going to be worth it for (non-guarunteed) $30-40k a year?" Surely you would male more just working some job with zero risk.

And you also have opportunity cost of not investing all that money in an actual good investment

Motor Cross wrote:

Just because you love the sport and think owning a track will be an enjoyable way to make a living, doesn't mean you shouldn't come at...

Just because you love the sport and think owning a track will be an enjoyable way to make a living, doesn't mean you shouldn't come at this venture the same way you would for any other large investment / business purchase. Make a excel pro-forma cash flow. What will your acquisition costs be? Operating expenses? Revenue streams?

Ultimately from my understanding owning a track is going to be hugely dependent on localized supply and demand. How many tracks are in your area? How many local riders are in the area? The answer is that supply and demand is going to be much better in NJ or CA than it will be an AL or AR. The downside is the land cost will be much higher in those better markets.

Go to a local track in your area for a weekday practice and a local race. Gauge how many riders really make up the local market. The key to success is going to be diversifying income streams. Frequent hare scramble events, Friday night supercross races, practice days, and several races a year. The key here is going to be how many races can you even get in a year? Are you prepared to run outlaw? Don't expect your local series to roll out the red carpet for you.

Lets try this breakdown. $250k for the land. Another $150k for essential infrastructure and used equipment. The land will still appreciate but you may have $40-50k a year in equipment depreciation and repair.

30 riders at $30 a head would be $900 in revenue for a practice day but you're probably going to be out $400 in gas to prep the track. So $500 a practice you would need 20 of those a year to make $10k profit from practice.

Race days probably get you $10-20k in profit but how many will you actually get in a year with a sizeable entry? My guess would be 4-5. So lets say $15k times 5 thats $75k a year. Plus your practice profit, you could be looking at $80-85k a year profit. Now subtract property taxes and equipment repair and depreciation. Seems like you're looking at $30-40k a year net profit. Thats assuming everything goes well and you don't end up with noise complaints or a durhamtown style lawsuit.

Then you have to ask yourself: "Is all my effort working and maintaining the track going to be worth it for (non-guarunteed) $30-40k a year?" Surely you would male more just working some job with zero risk.

And you also have opportunity cost of not investing all that money in an actual good investment

crusher773 wrote:

My family ran a track in this area for years. I'm good friends with a couple track owners. These numbers are hugely inflated for the area...

My family ran a track in this area for years. I'm good friends with a couple track owners. These numbers are hugely inflated for the area. Nobody makes near that on a race weekend.

dirtbikemike wrote:

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have...

Have you worked at any tracks? I'm not talking about showing up on Sunday morning and waving a yellow flag for a couple of hours. Have you been at a track from Thursday through Monday working your ass off for little or no pay? Get back to us when you do that because that will be your life as a track owner at a minimum.

Love4Moto wrote:

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and...

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and yes it is hard work sun up to sun down and the return is obviously minimal for a while, but I'm trying to understand why this is what eveyone says. Obviously it's the truth or this many people wouldn't be saying these things. Either that or it's just that that all these people have done their research, just like I have, and are just discouraging themselves into moving forward, based on what everyone is saying.

JustMX wrote:

Then don't ask for advice and expect it all to be positive. But hey, you have a business plan in a business you know absolutely nothing...

Then don't ask for advice and expect it all to be positive.

But hey, you have a business plan in a business you know absolutely nothing about so what do we know.

I like hamburgers, but I can admit I know nothing about what it takes to run a restaurant.

People that know the business aren't being negative because they are worried about you opening a track in Missouri. They are telling you exactly what they wished somebody had told them.

I worked at tracks full time from 1987 until 1996 before going out on my own and running over 400 racing events, and about twice that many organized practice days, plus helping other promoters up until 2014.

I ran equipment at nationals and LL's for about 8 years as well. I still work an occasional race for Victory sports when I can fit it into my schedule.

So please understand when I say. You are clueless.

I agree with other posters here. Start with a fenced track, work on a way to water, and understand it will take 10 times the water that you think it will. Get help with your original layout focusing on drainage.

Open one day a week until you get your track prep down and minimal staff to operate an organized practice. Then open both days of the weekend and narrow your time frame down enough to keep from having to make multiple trips with your water truck for the 5 guys that can't make it out before 2 pm. If you do that right most will make an effort to come when you are open and you will not have to spend a thursday waiting for nobody to show, or worse have 3 guys show up and then bitch on every possible platform how the track wasn't fully prepped.

Bathrooms are nice, but they are a huge investment, and you will find that a lot of people will not appreciate them enough to keep from washing their muddy gear in the sinks. Same thing goes for hook ups. Have a water fill spigot and if you have septic somewhere on the property plumb in a dump station. It would take years to cover the expense of electrical right now. add all that later if you still think you need it a couple years from now.

Don't buy a bunch of inventory for your "moto" shop. Never did that but know plenty that did. Even back before online shopping got big they would come in and size the gear and then buy it at chaparral or some other discount house so they could save $10. the boots and clothes you try to stock will get worn out from people trying them on.
Maybe stock some levers, plugs and oils,

Don't mess with concessions unless you really, really like hot dogs and nachos, because when it rains unexpectedly on a Saturday morning, you will be living off your inventory. Sub it out to a food truck or charity, and don't worry about the money until you get established and actually have some turnout.

Now, get to know somebody that is familiar with stormwater runoff and environmental requirements in the area where you are planning to build. Not every state is as stupid as California, but it is spreading. You need to know this,and understand that you can get away with stuff when used for agricultural that will cause problems for tracks.
Nothing will squash your dreams like having an environmental enforcement officer wearing a sidearm tell you that you need to spend $50k for civil engineering work before you can proceed, or face $10k fines/day, per violation.

If the land is in your name or a relative's, you will need to take steps to protect that from litigation. Even doing stuff like letting you use their equipment can get them named in a lawsuit. Get to know a lawyer familiar with the laws in the state where you are doing it, not a moto forum where most are gung-ho for you.to go for it because they are clueless also.

Be diligent on all things concerning liability. Post direction signs on your track. Come up with a way to keep somebody that has not signed a release off the track. Better yet, don't let them through the gate unless they have signed a release. Control pit riding. People will think you are an asshole, but the cost of not being strict can be severe. Don't believe it when people on here say that a release isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Yes, anybody can file a lawsuit, but a good release can make the difference between it being dismissed or losing a lot, possibly everything.

And understand this, that no matter how hard you work and plan, and all the steps you take to provide a safe place to ride, people will get hurt, and there may even be fatalities. you will most likely end up in court, and that will age you and there is a good chance it will suck every bit of enjoyment out of a sport that you live and breathe, if all the first year riders telling you how to run your track, and insisting that you need some huge gap jumps "to separate the men from boys" doesn't do that first.

On the other hand, if you are ever lucky enough to get it off the ground and have an awesome day with a great turnout, no transports, and people stop to tell you how great it was and thank you, it is like a drug that you have to have the next weekend.

dirtbikemike wrote:

Yep, I'm rolling it in alright. Nothing like a rusty hydraulic line to slow down progress building a track for a fairgrounds race. We did get...

Yep, I'm rolling it in alright. Nothing like a rusty hydraulic line to slow down progress building a track for a fairgrounds race. We did get it fixed and had a great event. Why don't you call me David and we'll do it again for 12 more years. It's easy, just pile up some mounds of dirt and people will give you wads of money to ride on it.

huck wrote:

I'm still living off of all that money we made!!!! Maybe in a few more years, I might need to refill my bank account... :) Speaking...

I'm still living off of all that money we made!!!! Maybe in a few more years, I might need to refill my bank account...

Speaking of rusty hydraulic lines...brooke and I remembered the other day having to go get you in BFE when the motorhome broke down coming up here...at 10pm at night. You'd think with all the money we made, a private jet would have been used....

zookrider62! wrote:

bring back the mountain home faircross!

Love4Moto wrote:

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and...

This is the negativity that im seeing everywhere else. No I have not done that, but I do understand what it takes to do it, and yes it is hard work sun up to sun down and the return is obviously minimal for a while, but I'm trying to understand why this is what eveyone says. Obviously it's the truth or this many people wouldn't be saying these things. Either that or it's just that that all these people have done their research, just like I have, and are just discouraging themselves into moving forward, based on what everyone is saying.

Sr_Vet_Rider wrote:

Mike has 30+ years experience owning/ running an MX Track. Many race teams and support for AX/SX racers as well. Trust me when I say that...

Mike has 30+ years experience owning/ running an MX Track. Many race teams and support for AX/SX racers as well. Trust me when I say that “HE KNOWS A THING OR TWO ABOUT IT” and yes… I’ve been to his house/ track.

I know several people who own or have owned MX tracks in California and it’s NOT a good way to make money. Always someone complaining about the track, no matter how hard you try.
Too much water
Needs to be ripped deeper
Ripping it too deep
Jumps are too big
Needs more jumps
Track is boring
Track has too many obstacles
Track is too fast
Parking sucks
Why do you charge so much
Blah…Blah…Blah…

I’d avoid it at all costs, if I were you. Just my opinion

bondsmx wrote:

I ran a track for almost 3 years in Ca.

This could NOT be more true. I mean, SPOT ON lol.

Sr_Vet_Rider wrote:

You did a great job, I see Jeff Reynolds has taken over up there, I haven’t been able to make it up there in a while...

You did a great job, I see Jeff Reynolds has taken over up there, I haven’t been able to make it up there in a while. I use to bring my son up to the MX3 track, next to the Famoso drag strip back in ‘03 when he was on 80’s. Can’t remember the owners name, but he really tried to keep everyone happy up there too. It’s impossible to do… My kid raced his Supermini in the 125 Int class and won the night series he put on up there. The 125 guys were not too happy. Lol
I actually met The Kranyak’s and Brad Williams and his son up there, which led to a WBR Suzuki ride in ‘06/‘07, before that imploded. You were on Mitch’s bike and it was fun to watch you ripping up that place. Good memories.


A good friend of mine bought the Piru track and put his heart and soul into that place. No matter how much he tried, there was always people complaining about something. Not to mention the assholes that dump their oil into the ports-potties and leave their old tires/ trash in the pits. It’s a constant battle and lots of extra charges to fix / clean up peoples messes. Then you have the gate girl letting friends in to ride for free or pocketing some side cash from paying customers. He finally gave up and closed the track and sold the land/ house to a landscape business. There’s no way I’d want to deal with all that shit that comes with running a public track !

I have a private outdoor track in Rosamond that I built on 40 acres when my son turned pro, but nobody complained about riding for free and we relied on rain to water the track. lol
Track is still there, but it’s a little beat up after 15+ years without any clean ups.