ICE future fuel availability, ICE vs electric, US power grid issues, etc,

Leave Us To
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Leave Us To
Edited Date/Time 11/15/2022 9:11am
Since the original thread RE: Should electric MX bikes be silent thread got hijacked by the above issues, knock yourself out discussing these issues here..
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Motocrossjunky 10/19/2022 6:20am
10/19/2022 6:20am
It was "hijacked" because it made no sense at all, not worth a second try
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#434
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#434 10/19/2022 7:40am
10/19/2022 7:40am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2022 7:41am
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
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MotoTribology 10/19/2022 7:44am
10/19/2022 7:44am
Leave Us To wrote:
Since the original thread RE: Should electric MX bikes be silent thread got hijacked by the above issues, knock yourself out discussing these issues here..
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/19/2022 7:48am
10/19/2022 7:48am
George Carlin taught me long ago that no matter what we do, we are all fucked in the end. May as well enjoy what you have while you have it and let the future sort itself out
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HonDawg17 10/19/2022 8:00am
10/19/2022 8:00am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
I do believe you are very wrong about the EV's being a "benefit" to the grid. California has brown outs constantly because of all the EV charging. People can't even run their A/C when its 90 degrees out. So clearly they strain the grid too much for people to use the grid on a "normal" EV charging level. Then you add in EV motorcycle charging along with your EV truck/car...not gonna happen. People will be running separate diesel powered generators for those chargers, completely negating the point of EVs "green" classification. Even though EV's are tremendously NOT GREEN. We use more diesel in the entire manufacturing process, especially the mining, than a diesel vehicle would produce in its lifetime. The entire EV fad is completely BS. Its not good for the environment. Make hydrogen cars. GM has an engine that the US government wont let them release to the public, and that was back in 2009. EV's in motocross just wont happen, plain and simple. Its not going to be a PRO class. Motocross is all about the sound, feel, and shifting. Its just not MOTO if its EV.
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FGR01
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FGR01 10/19/2022 8:01am
10/19/2022 8:01am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
Not trying to be a dick, seriously. But, given the current state of affairs in Europe, opinions coming out of Germany about future availability of fuel and the energy grid are a bit rich.

In the USA, range is always a concern. The country is just too big, not densely populated enough, and will never have the public transportation systems that Europe has. Sorry, I ain't taking 3 weeks to cross the country in my EV due to hours long charging stops. And that's now when there is a very low percentage of EV's and wait times would only get longer.
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LungButter
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LungButter 10/19/2022 8:17am
10/19/2022 8:17am
Thought you only had time to be on here one day a week?

Isn't your time up for this week?
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SmokinJoe439
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SmokinJoe439 10/19/2022 8:23am
10/19/2022 8:23am
When we actually get there which is a lot further away than some stupid legislators think.
Then I'll care.
R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 10/19/2022 8:26am
10/19/2022 8:26am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2022 8:26am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
Poster; Biased
Source: Biased

Post: Disregarded

Grinning

Now, lock the thread or move it to the dumbgeon
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#434
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#434 10/19/2022 8:39am
10/19/2022 8:39am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
R VanKamp77 wrote:
Poster; Biased
Source: Biased

Post: Disregarded

Grinning

Now, lock the thread or move it to the dumbgeon
That’s not how it works, bro.
Bring some arguments and other sources to prove your point.
Oh wait, you have no point…
I have no problem changing my opinion, but you have to hit me with some facts. Show where it says fuel will be banned or EVs will kill the grid.
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MotoTribology 10/19/2022 8:43am
10/19/2022 8:43am
I know people like to think about these issues, but has anyone even considered the noise issue?

I hope they'll make noise otherwise; we will be stuck with silent machines. Alta was silent as is Stark. Seems like a huge miss to me if they'll continue to be silent.
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#434
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#434 10/19/2022 8:44am
10/19/2022 8:44am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
HonDawg17 wrote:
I do believe you are very wrong about the EV's being a "benefit" to the grid. California has brown outs constantly because of all the EV...
I do believe you are very wrong about the EV's being a "benefit" to the grid. California has brown outs constantly because of all the EV charging. People can't even run their A/C when its 90 degrees out. So clearly they strain the grid too much for people to use the grid on a "normal" EV charging level. Then you add in EV motorcycle charging along with your EV truck/car...not gonna happen. People will be running separate diesel powered generators for those chargers, completely negating the point of EVs "green" classification. Even though EV's are tremendously NOT GREEN. We use more diesel in the entire manufacturing process, especially the mining, than a diesel vehicle would produce in its lifetime. The entire EV fad is completely BS. Its not good for the environment. Make hydrogen cars. GM has an engine that the US government wont let them release to the public, and that was back in 2009. EV's in motocross just wont happen, plain and simple. Its not going to be a PRO class. Motocross is all about the sound, feel, and shifting. Its just not MOTO if its EV.
It’s ok that you believe that, but did you read that somewhere? I always here this argument, that EVs are worse for the environment, but have never seen an article or a paper that really shows that.
And BTW: a diesel generator charging an EV takes less diesel than driving a diesel car the same distance.
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D.K.O.N.
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D.K.O.N. 10/19/2022 8:52am
10/19/2022 8:52am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2022 8:54am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
HonDawg17 wrote:
I do believe you are very wrong about the EV's being a "benefit" to the grid. California has brown outs constantly because of all the EV...
I do believe you are very wrong about the EV's being a "benefit" to the grid. California has brown outs constantly because of all the EV charging. People can't even run their A/C when its 90 degrees out. So clearly they strain the grid too much for people to use the grid on a "normal" EV charging level. Then you add in EV motorcycle charging along with your EV truck/car...not gonna happen. People will be running separate diesel powered generators for those chargers, completely negating the point of EVs "green" classification. Even though EV's are tremendously NOT GREEN. We use more diesel in the entire manufacturing process, especially the mining, than a diesel vehicle would produce in its lifetime. The entire EV fad is completely BS. Its not good for the environment. Make hydrogen cars. GM has an engine that the US government wont let them release to the public, and that was back in 2009. EV's in motocross just wont happen, plain and simple. Its not going to be a PRO class. Motocross is all about the sound, feel, and shifting. Its just not MOTO if its EV.
I do believe you're talking out of your ass. Cali doesn't have brown outs because of EV's you smooth brained nimwit. Cali has brown outs because there's 30 MILLION PEOPLE TRYING TO RUN AC!

EVs aren't nearly as big of a strain on the grid as people think...and hell...there's a very rapidly increasing number of people with EVs that aren't even on the grid. They have solar and energy storage systems right on their home. Literally ZERO impact to the grid.

Feel like you've been sniffing too much gas to see shit straight. Moving away from fossil fuels is a net positive change for the entire world. Deal with it.
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LoudLove
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LoudLove 10/19/2022 8:56am
10/19/2022 8:56am
EV technology is still in its infancy. Remember, ICE didn’t replace the horse & buggy overnight, either. But it’s on the horizon.

Power challenges today are largely self-inflicted. America’s fear of nuclear reactors suppresses both new energy sources and development. Once we realize it’s no longer 1974 our country can move forward and release our dependence on foreign oil.

ICEs require oil extraction and refinement. EVs can use a variety of energy sources, which eventually will be much more efficient. Yes, range is an issue, but the vast majority of Americans drive less than 100 miles a day. The ability to “refuel” from one’s own garage is very appealing.
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LungButter
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LungButter 10/19/2022 9:05am
10/19/2022 9:05am
MotoTribology wrote:
I know people like to think about these issues, but has anyone even considered the noise issue? I hope they'll make noise otherwise; we will be...
I know people like to think about these issues, but has anyone even considered the noise issue?

I hope they'll make noise otherwise; we will be stuck with silent machines. Alta was silent as is Stark. Seems like a huge miss to me if they'll continue to be silent.
Yep, everybody knows that making bikes as loud as possible will do wonders for keeping riding areas open and growing the sport.

*Sarcasm*
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Magoofan
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Magoofan 10/19/2022 9:15am
10/19/2022 9:15am
Next e-Bike thread title idea for OP: "Neon light strips....yay or nay?"






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resetjet
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resetjet 10/19/2022 9:40am
10/19/2022 9:40am
I would put my money into hydrogen ICE. Batteries are just too bad for environment.
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FGR01
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FGR01 10/19/2022 9:43am
10/19/2022 9:43am
I think the coolest thing about EV's is how we get to play VHS/Beta, iPhone/Droid, and MAC/Windows style fuckery games with proprietary charging solutions. Imagine if your F-150 could only go to Ford gas stations that were sparsely located. Wouldn't that be awesome!
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early
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early 10/19/2022 9:50am
10/19/2022 9:50am
resetjet wrote:
I would put my money into hydrogen ICE. Batteries are just too bad for environment.
You'd lose your money. There will not be hydrogen ICE vehicles, only fuel cell, if that.
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early
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early 10/19/2022 9:51am
10/19/2022 9:51am
FGR01 wrote:
I think the coolest thing about EV's is how we get to play VHS/Beta, iPhone/Droid, and MAC/Windows style fuckery games with proprietary charging solutions. Imagine if...
I think the coolest thing about EV's is how we get to play VHS/Beta, iPhone/Droid, and MAC/Windows style fuckery games with proprietary charging solutions. Imagine if your F-150 could only go to Ford gas stations that were sparsely located. Wouldn't that be awesome!
It's basically Tesla vs everyone else. Going with the Apple model because, of course they are.
early
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early 10/19/2022 9:53am
10/19/2022 9:53am
LoudLove wrote:
EV technology is still in its infancy. Remember, ICE didn’t replace the horse & buggy overnight, either. But it’s on the horizon. Power challenges today are...
EV technology is still in its infancy. Remember, ICE didn’t replace the horse & buggy overnight, either. But it’s on the horizon.

Power challenges today are largely self-inflicted. America’s fear of nuclear reactors suppresses both new energy sources and development. Once we realize it’s no longer 1974 our country can move forward and release our dependence on foreign oil.

ICEs require oil extraction and refinement. EVs can use a variety of energy sources, which eventually will be much more efficient. Yes, range is an issue, but the vast majority of Americans drive less than 100 miles a day. The ability to “refuel” from one’s own garage is very appealing.
Not only that, there's alot better options for producing your own electricity on your own property than refining your own oil. FREEDOM!!!
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/19/2022 9:57am
10/19/2022 9:57am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
A scientific rule is energy is energy regardless where it comes from. You HAVE to have a 220V charger in your home if you want the thing charged overnight. I don’t know what the amperage draw is but certainly if 110 won’t cut it it’s substantial. I can link to studies from the early 80s that were showing that all the smog etc was causing global cooling. How funny will it be when we find out that the smog was helping protect us from the sun and once we clear it all up the earth becomes a barren Mars like planet.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/19/2022 9:59am
10/19/2022 9:59am
resetjet wrote:
I would put my money into hydrogen ICE. Batteries are just too bad for environment.
early wrote:
You'd lose your money. There will not be hydrogen ICE vehicles, only fuel cell, if that.
This will be where we end up. Toyota is not sold on EV.
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#434
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#434 10/19/2022 9:59am
10/19/2022 9:59am
early wrote:
You'd lose your money. There will not be hydrogen ICE vehicles, only fuel cell, if that.
And not even that.. A fuel cell car is a standard EV with small battery plus a fuel cell and a hydrogen tank. Feasible maybe for large trucks, but certainly not for cars. Too expensive, too complicated.
The university I worked for has invested heavily in fuel cell and hydrogen storage research and few colleagues and friends work in the field. The idea of fuel cell cars is out of the window. They work on improving efficiency and robustness of stationary fuel cells.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/19/2022 10:02am
10/19/2022 10:02am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
HonDawg17 wrote:
I do believe you are very wrong about the EV's being a "benefit" to the grid. California has brown outs constantly because of all the EV...
I do believe you are very wrong about the EV's being a "benefit" to the grid. California has brown outs constantly because of all the EV charging. People can't even run their A/C when its 90 degrees out. So clearly they strain the grid too much for people to use the grid on a "normal" EV charging level. Then you add in EV motorcycle charging along with your EV truck/car...not gonna happen. People will be running separate diesel powered generators for those chargers, completely negating the point of EVs "green" classification. Even though EV's are tremendously NOT GREEN. We use more diesel in the entire manufacturing process, especially the mining, than a diesel vehicle would produce in its lifetime. The entire EV fad is completely BS. Its not good for the environment. Make hydrogen cars. GM has an engine that the US government wont let them release to the public, and that was back in 2009. EV's in motocross just wont happen, plain and simple. Its not going to be a PRO class. Motocross is all about the sound, feel, and shifting. Its just not MOTO if its EV.
#434 wrote:
It’s ok that you believe that, but did you read that somewhere? I always here this argument, that EVs are worse for the environment, but have...
It’s ok that you believe that, but did you read that somewhere? I always here this argument, that EVs are worse for the environment, but have never seen an article or a paper that really shows that.
And BTW: a diesel generator charging an EV takes less diesel than driving a diesel car the same distance.
Maybe you should look into where the lithium comes from and how they get it.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/19/2022 10:03am
10/19/2022 10:03am
I’m involved with omoanies who are recycling these batteries now. Nothing but steps of chemical baths and other environmentally unsound processes ti get the good stuff separated from the bad. Green lol
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D.K.O.N.
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D.K.O.N. 10/19/2022 10:05am
10/19/2022 10:05am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
RaceFace58 wrote:
A scientific rule is energy is energy regardless where it comes from. You HAVE to have a 220V charger in your home if you want the...
A scientific rule is energy is energy regardless where it comes from. You HAVE to have a 220V charger in your home if you want the thing charged overnight. I don’t know what the amperage draw is but certainly if 110 won’t cut it it’s substantial. I can link to studies from the early 80s that were showing that all the smog etc was causing global cooling. How funny will it be when we find out that the smog was helping protect us from the sun and once we clear it all up the earth becomes a barren Mars like planet.
Just the sheer amount of ignorance that you spew on a regular basis is so frustrating...I can't even believe there are people like you just out there walking around. It's increasingly clear that modern science has completely eradicated natural selection.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 10/19/2022 10:06am
10/19/2022 10:06am
Dunning-Kruger display thread
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/19/2022 10:07am
10/19/2022 10:07am
#434 wrote:
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive - the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of...
- fuel will always be available, but will become more and more expensive
- the only great thing about ICEs is the high energy density of their fuel. If range isn’t a concern, the electric motor outperforms it in every way.
- overall EVs will be a benefit to the energy grid because they will add a lot of storage capability to it. And the strain on the grid from charging EVs is smaller than one think. Check this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
My two cents.
RaceFace58 wrote:
A scientific rule is energy is energy regardless where it comes from. You HAVE to have a 220V charger in your home if you want the...
A scientific rule is energy is energy regardless where it comes from. You HAVE to have a 220V charger in your home if you want the thing charged overnight. I don’t know what the amperage draw is but certainly if 110 won’t cut it it’s substantial. I can link to studies from the early 80s that were showing that all the smog etc was causing global cooling. How funny will it be when we find out that the smog was helping protect us from the sun and once we clear it all up the earth becomes a barren Mars like planet.
D.K.O.N. wrote:
Just the sheer amount of ignorance that you spew on a regular basis is so frustrating...I can't even believe there are people like you just out...
Just the sheer amount of ignorance that you spew on a regular basis is so frustrating...I can't even believe there are people like you just out there walking around. It's increasingly clear that modern science has completely eradicated natural selection.
Coming from someone who thinks you can negate charging ev’s by having solar panels on your roof.
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