Anybody get their 23 xc-f to turn better?

3D
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3D
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so he's good at giving me feedback. We've played a bunch with fork settings with no luck. I'm going to try bringing his sag from 105 to 100 next, but just wondering if someone else found a magic fix.
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kopfjaeger
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kopfjaeger 9/22/2022 10:35am
9/22/2022 10:35am
3D wrote:
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so...
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so he's good at giving me feedback. We've played a bunch with fork settings with no luck. I'm going to try bringing his sag from 105 to 100 next, but just wondering if someone else found a magic fix.
My son is happy with his 23 450xcf so far. says it turns a lot better than his yzf. he has about 10 hours track and offroad on it now. I personally have an hour or less on it, turned fine for me. Felt almost as good as my 20 350xcf with ktech conversion and bladder kit.

We went to about 103.5 on sag, went to a 4.8 shock spring, HSC-1-3/4 out, LSC-17, Reb-15 he is 6-1, 190ish. 155psi in fork, 12out on Comp17 out on R,

so far so good. no races yet. We will be getting it tuned I am sure after he races it a time or 2 and before next season. He races Pro Xc in local Texas series, A in national stuff, and a B ish MX
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kopfjaeger
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kopfjaeger 9/22/2022 10:36am
9/22/2022 10:36am
oh and that his him wearing the jester cap in my profile pic!! I miss him being that small!
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kopfjaeger
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kopfjaeger 9/22/2022 10:39am
9/22/2022 10:39am
oh and 3D, let me know if those setting s help any please. I am curious.
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yz763
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yz763 9/22/2022 1:51pm
9/22/2022 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2022 6:29pm
Bridgestone M59. /endthread

Edit: my KTM’s have been very sensitive to front tire choice. The M59 works awesome and has outperformed any tire I’ve used.
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Timo
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Timo 9/22/2022 2:06pm
9/22/2022 2:06pm
3D wrote:
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so...
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so he's good at giving me feedback. We've played a bunch with fork settings with no luck. I'm going to try bringing his sag from 105 to 100 next, but just wondering if someone else found a magic fix.
kopfjaeger wrote:
My son is happy with his 23 450xcf so far. says it turns a lot better than his yzf. he has about 10 hours track and...
My son is happy with his 23 450xcf so far. says it turns a lot better than his yzf. he has about 10 hours track and offroad on it now. I personally have an hour or less on it, turned fine for me. Felt almost as good as my 20 350xcf with ktech conversion and bladder kit.

We went to about 103.5 on sag, went to a 4.8 shock spring, HSC-1-3/4 out, LSC-17, Reb-15 he is 6-1, 190ish. 155psi in fork, 12out on Comp17 out on R,

so far so good. no races yet. We will be getting it tuned I am sure after he races it a time or 2 and before next season. He races Pro Xc in local Texas series, A in national stuff, and a B ish MX
I generally like 103.55mm of sag....
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captmoto
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captmoto 9/22/2022 2:39pm
9/22/2022 2:39pm
How many hours? Is it on the new frame? MXA says up to 10 hours for the frame to "break in" before their riders started to like it. At least 4 hours for the forks to settle in.
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3D
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3D 9/22/2022 3:17pm
9/22/2022 3:17pm
3D wrote:
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so...
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so he's good at giving me feedback. We've played a bunch with fork settings with no luck. I'm going to try bringing his sag from 105 to 100 next, but just wondering if someone else found a magic fix.
kopfjaeger wrote:
My son is happy with his 23 450xcf so far. says it turns a lot better than his yzf. he has about 10 hours track and...
My son is happy with his 23 450xcf so far. says it turns a lot better than his yzf. he has about 10 hours track and offroad on it now. I personally have an hour or less on it, turned fine for me. Felt almost as good as my 20 350xcf with ktech conversion and bladder kit.

We went to about 103.5 on sag, went to a 4.8 shock spring, HSC-1-3/4 out, LSC-17, Reb-15 he is 6-1, 190ish. 155psi in fork, 12out on Comp17 out on R,

so far so good. no races yet. We will be getting it tuned I am sure after he races it a time or 2 and before next season. He races Pro Xc in local Texas series, A in national stuff, and a B ish MX
Sounds about same speed kid, not weight by far. He's only 135 pounds. I had to go down a size on the shock spring. We've been bouncing around 107-115 pounds of air. 107 makes it turn better but too soft everywhere else. 115 pounds he's deflecting everywhere. Granted I live in coal country and our trails are rough. Rougher than most of the gncc's. Our clickers are real close to yours. We only have 5 hours on the bike. He's only got one race on it. He won A250 by 8 minutes and 2nd overal(local race) , so it can't be that bad. I think I'm going to try less sag and maybe move the forks up a bit in the clamps.
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3D
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3D 9/22/2022 3:18pm
9/22/2022 3:18pm
captmoto wrote:
How many hours? Is it on the new frame? MXA says up to 10 hours for the frame to "break in" before their riders started to...
How many hours? Is it on the new frame? MXA says up to 10 hours for the frame to "break in" before their riders started to like it. At least 4 hours for the forks to settle in.
He's only got 5 hours or so on it.
kopfjaeger
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kopfjaeger 9/22/2022 3:27pm
9/22/2022 3:27pm
More time def helps it loosen up. I would plug your figures into racetech’s website as both a 23 and a 22.5 FE, and see what they say. They told us 158.9psi for him, we went to 150 at his choice, once we got the 4.8 shock spring, we went to 155 and he is happy. So try RT’s psi and back off from there. We always run the same psi as you would run the same coil sprg. We just adjust clickers to need. Today at Masterpool’s he said he went 2 stiffer on fork, and 2 stiffer on LSC to get it to handle that track like he wanted.
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kopfjaeger
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kopfjaeger 9/22/2022 5:24pm
9/22/2022 5:24pm
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the frame was to get less kick in whoops ans such, side effect was that the front end doesnt load up as much on corners, especially slower corners as it doesnt get pushed as much. So the redneck engineer in me surmises that is why the bikes seem to like 103/103.5 mm sag as opposed to the old 105 sag. But, just SWAG on my part. Could be totally wrong, but it works
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3D
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3D 9/22/2022 5:31pm
9/22/2022 5:31pm
kopfjaeger wrote:
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the...
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the frame was to get less kick in whoops ans such, side effect was that the front end doesnt load up as much on corners, especially slower corners as it doesnt get pushed as much. So the redneck engineer in me surmises that is why the bikes seem to like 103/103.5 mm sag as opposed to the old 105 sag. But, just SWAG on my part. Could be totally wrong, but it works
I just checked the racetech site and I feel like an idiot. According to that, we should be at 134 pounds of air. Looks like I'm starting over. I bet the 112 feels stiff because it's too soft, if that makes sense. I'm definitely going to 103 of sag. Thank you for the help. I'll let you know how it goes when the rain stops.
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Langhammx 9/22/2022 5:54pm
9/22/2022 5:54pm
kopfjaeger wrote:
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the...
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the frame was to get less kick in whoops ans such, side effect was that the front end doesnt load up as much on corners, especially slower corners as it doesnt get pushed as much. So the redneck engineer in me surmises that is why the bikes seem to like 103/103.5 mm sag as opposed to the old 105 sag. But, just SWAG on my part. Could be totally wrong, but it works
3D wrote:
I just checked the racetech site and I feel like an idiot. According to that, we should be at 134 pounds of air. Looks like I'm...
I just checked the racetech site and I feel like an idiot. According to that, we should be at 134 pounds of air. Looks like I'm starting over. I bet the 112 feels stiff because it's too soft, if that makes sense. I'm definitely going to 103 of sag. Thank you for the help. I'll let you know how it goes when the rain stops.
“I bet the 112 feels stiff because it's too soft, if that makes sense” ~ yes, makes perfect sense. Lots of people go to a lower air pressure thinking it will help and it got worse.
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motoxrocks
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motoxrocks 9/22/2022 6:24pm
9/22/2022 6:24pm
kopfjaeger wrote:
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the...
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the frame was to get less kick in whoops ans such, side effect was that the front end doesnt load up as much on corners, especially slower corners as it doesnt get pushed as much. So the redneck engineer in me surmises that is why the bikes seem to like 103/103.5 mm sag as opposed to the old 105 sag. But, just SWAG on my part. Could be totally wrong, but it works
3D wrote:
I just checked the racetech site and I feel like an idiot. According to that, we should be at 134 pounds of air. Looks like I'm...
I just checked the racetech site and I feel like an idiot. According to that, we should be at 134 pounds of air. Looks like I'm starting over. I bet the 112 feels stiff because it's too soft, if that makes sense. I'm definitely going to 103 of sag. Thank you for the help. I'll let you know how it goes when the rain stops.
Def low on air pressure and don't know if you played with fork tube height? Know you are complaining of pushing but could it possibly be over steering? I find the new chassis to be very nose heavy. I run the fork on the first or at the most a line and a half and it feels much more balanced with less over steer.
kopfjaeger
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kopfjaeger 9/22/2022 6:38pm
9/22/2022 6:38pm
You mean 3rd line showing, or 1-1.5 lines showing on fork tube?
kopfjaeger
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kopfjaeger 9/22/2022 6:40pm
9/22/2022 6:40pm
kopfjaeger wrote:
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the...
Oh as a side note, can’t recall where i read it/heard it. One of the reasons for moving the shock mount from the backbone of the frame was to get less kick in whoops ans such, side effect was that the front end doesnt load up as much on corners, especially slower corners as it doesnt get pushed as much. So the redneck engineer in me surmises that is why the bikes seem to like 103/103.5 mm sag as opposed to the old 105 sag. But, just SWAG on my part. Could be totally wrong, but it works
3D wrote:
I just checked the racetech site and I feel like an idiot. According to that, we should be at 134 pounds of air. Looks like I'm...
I just checked the racetech site and I feel like an idiot. According to that, we should be at 134 pounds of air. Looks like I'm starting over. I bet the 112 feels stiff because it's too soft, if that makes sense. I'm definitely going to 103 of sag. Thank you for the help. I'll let you know how it goes when the rain stops.
Yeah, 134 could be a little over sprung from what my son found at their rec of 158.9.he is happy at 155 now But i would do that and work down to where it feels plush enough for him. We are atill running 3rd line down on fork tube
kopfjaeger
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kopfjaeger 9/22/2022 6:51pm
9/22/2022 6:51pm
And yes, from my dumbass interpretation of this crap, under sprung stuff sits too far into the stroke and therefore feels too stiff. I could see this preventing the proper weight transfer for cornering too.
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Sargebro387
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Sargebro387 9/22/2022 7:01pm
9/22/2022 7:01pm
yz763 wrote:
Bridgestone M59. /endthread

Edit: my KTM’s have been very sensitive to front tire choice. The M59 works awesome and has outperformed any tire I’ve used.
Good to hear. This is the tire I was considering. What kind of conditions/dirt are you riding in?


Ive been getting a pretty vague feeling with the mx33 in corners on hard pack, regardless of psi.
Brent
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Brent 9/22/2022 7:44pm
9/22/2022 7:44pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2022 7:52pm
3D wrote:
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so...
Just put my son on a 23 250xc-f and he is complaining of a lot of front end push. He's an A level gncc racer, so he's good at giving me feedback. We've played a bunch with fork settings with no luck. I'm going to try bringing his sag from 105 to 100 next, but just wondering if someone else found a magic fix.
From my experience, its probably the sag and not the fork setup (not that the stock fork is anything special)

How much does he weigh?

If he is over 170 LBS with no gear on then he maybe needs a stiffer shock spring - and if not, I personally would try as little as 95 MM of race sag. Make sure your set race sag with him on the bike in full gear.

also FYI, some of the stock shock springs on the 2022 and 2023 Motocross models models have not been accurate in their marked spring rate - some have been on the lighter side of what is marked on the spring.

another trick is to change to a different link with a stiffer spring, which will give a more progressive feel to the shock and will help the bike steer more precisely.

When a KTM is '"choppered out" because of a low rear end, they handle like shit and the fork doesn't work properly,
BikePilot
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BikePilot 9/22/2022 8:27pm
9/22/2022 8:27pm
You might try a touch more high speed compression damping on the shock to help keep it up in the stroke.

Post a reply to: Anybody get their 23 xc-f to turn better?