One Streaming Thread to rule them all

Motodave15
Posts
4252
Joined
8/7/2010
Location
Temple City, CA US
Edited Date/Time 7/20/2022 9:13am
Since SX and MX have lost NBC streaming.

What is stopping them from releasing a joint streaming product with the quality of F1 or WRC+??

Id like for the streaming service to have historic races from the vaults too. I mean with my F1 app i can watch races from the 1970s.


On the Infrastructure side of things, Who can afford to rent the space or place it in a already used spaced?.. Do the Rack and stacking (Installation of servers and switches) etc.

Either the people at the top don't understand or they just don't want to wait for ROI after its done, but complete streaming control and able to do as you please has to be pretty damn nice.

(Side note; I run my own personal plex server to stream movies/music for our family, it is not as hard as people claim, once the data is there on the SSD Drive.. it sits there until activated, which requires freaking no maintenance on my part besides updates/ additions and removals for space)
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slowgti
Posts
1005
Joined
1/14/2016
Location
Monroe, GA US
7/18/2022 11:03am
Dollars, cubic dollars
5
ddog558
Posts
1145
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Arlington, TX US
7/18/2022 11:07am
Maybe if we had people that gave a shit about it, we wouldnt get fucked on a weekly basis. Until our sport can be watched on a single channel (the whole fucking race), I'm out.
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GrapeApe
Posts
8761
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
7/18/2022 11:10am Edited Date/Time 7/18/2022 11:10am
ddog558 wrote:
Maybe if we had people that gave a shit about it, we wouldnt get fucked on a weekly basis. Until our sport can be watched on...
Maybe if we had people that gave a shit about it, we wouldnt get fucked on a weekly basis. Until our sport can be watched on a single channel (the whole fucking race), I'm out.
I have really good news for you. Our sport can be watched on a single channel, the whole fucking race, for the first time in a long time. Welcome back.
8
2
Supermega1
Posts
121
Joined
5/22/2018
Location
Henderson, NV US
7/18/2022 11:36am Edited Date/Time 7/18/2022 11:42am
Motodave15 wrote:
Since SX and MX have lost NBC streaming. What is stopping them from releasing a joint streaming product with the quality of F1 or WRC+?? Id...
Since SX and MX have lost NBC streaming.

What is stopping them from releasing a joint streaming product with the quality of F1 or WRC+??

Id like for the streaming service to have historic races from the vaults too. I mean with my F1 app i can watch races from the 1970s.


On the Infrastructure side of things, Who can afford to rent the space or place it in a already used spaced?.. Do the Rack and stacking (Installation of servers and switches) etc.

Either the people at the top don't understand or they just don't want to wait for ROI after its done, but complete streaming control and able to do as you please has to be pretty damn nice.

(Side note; I run my own personal plex server to stream movies/music for our family, it is not as hard as people claim, once the data is there on the SSD Drive.. it sits there until activated, which requires freaking no maintenance on my part besides updates/ additions and removals for space)
Cost mostly and time. As they say in software development anything can be done with enough time and money. The problem is you always run out of both.

Cost to build the software
10 developer team rough cost per developer $125,000 (low side) a year = $1,250,000 a year

Probably need a team twice that size. But for this example, we'll use a 10-man team working for a year to build the software. So if we started today you wouldn't have anything functioning for a year.

The cost of hosting 50 years of Moto and 30 years of SX video is probably $500 a month (rough rough estimate) = $6,000 a year

Bandwidth
This is where your numbers will be all over the place. Let's say 1 moto for MX is .5 of a gig and you watch 4 motos, that's 2 gigs per person that streams. 75,000 people stream your 2 gigs of video you are looking at $200-300 per TB of data depending upon who you are using so that's $45,000 in data per week.

Multiply that by 29 weeks of racing you have about $1,305,000.

Plus if you're using AWS you are probably paying for CPU cycles as well. So toss a bunch more in for that.

So
$1.25 million+ to build it
$1.3 million+ to host/serve it.
$1.25 million+ to maintain it per year for developers alone.

This is why you don't make your own version and you use someone else's software that has already eaten all the costs and get volume discounts on bandwidth.

I've seen 15-20k spent a month on AWS just to host eCommerce sites, POS, and Business back-offices. So that's $180,000 to $240,000 a year just for something that is not bandwidth intensive like video.

(all numbers are for example purposes and not 100% accurate, so don't roast me I was just trying to layout a proper example for "its easy").
3

The Shop

7/18/2022 11:45am
Mxgp has a good streaming package. But pays no prize money and charges much larger entry fees. On the premise that the exposure will be worth more for the riders

Does anyone think feld and mx sports should take up the same business mode ?
7/18/2022 11:49am
Motodave15 wrote:
Since SX and MX have lost NBC streaming. What is stopping them from releasing a joint streaming product with the quality of F1 or WRC+?? Id...
Since SX and MX have lost NBC streaming.

What is stopping them from releasing a joint streaming product with the quality of F1 or WRC+??

Id like for the streaming service to have historic races from the vaults too. I mean with my F1 app i can watch races from the 1970s.


On the Infrastructure side of things, Who can afford to rent the space or place it in a already used spaced?.. Do the Rack and stacking (Installation of servers and switches) etc.

Either the people at the top don't understand or they just don't want to wait for ROI after its done, but complete streaming control and able to do as you please has to be pretty damn nice.

(Side note; I run my own personal plex server to stream movies/music for our family, it is not as hard as people claim, once the data is there on the SSD Drive.. it sits there until activated, which requires freaking no maintenance on my part besides updates/ additions and removals for space)
Supermega1 wrote:
Cost mostly and time. As they say in software development anything can be done with enough time and money. The problem is you always run out...
Cost mostly and time. As they say in software development anything can be done with enough time and money. The problem is you always run out of both.

Cost to build the software
10 developer team rough cost per developer $125,000 (low side) a year = $1,250,000 a year

Probably need a team twice that size. But for this example, we'll use a 10-man team working for a year to build the software. So if we started today you wouldn't have anything functioning for a year.

The cost of hosting 50 years of Moto and 30 years of SX video is probably $500 a month (rough rough estimate) = $6,000 a year

Bandwidth
This is where your numbers will be all over the place. Let's say 1 moto for MX is .5 of a gig and you watch 4 motos, that's 2 gigs per person that streams. 75,000 people stream your 2 gigs of video you are looking at $200-300 per TB of data depending upon who you are using so that's $45,000 in data per week.

Multiply that by 29 weeks of racing you have about $1,305,000.

Plus if you're using AWS you are probably paying for CPU cycles as well. So toss a bunch more in for that.

So
$1.25 million+ to build it
$1.3 million+ to host/serve it.
$1.25 million+ to maintain it per year for developers alone.

This is why you don't make your own version and you use someone else's software that has already eaten all the costs and get volume discounts on bandwidth.

I've seen 15-20k spent a month on AWS just to host eCommerce sites, POS, and Business back-offices. So that's $180,000 to $240,000 a year just for something that is not bandwidth intensive like video.

(all numbers are for example purposes and not 100% accurate, so don't roast me I was just trying to layout a proper example for "its easy").
i agree with your entire hypothesis.

that said, so $6m total. For the single most important part of the sport. To ensure its growth and future. That without fixing, your entire series is going to die.

Doesn't sound like a bad investment nor one that SHOULD be cost prohibitive for a national series with 50y of history.

So basically: DO IT.
3
7/18/2022 12:08pm
i agree with your entire hypothesis. that said, so $6m total. For the single most important part of the sport. To ensure its growth and future...
i agree with your entire hypothesis.

that said, so $6m total. For the single most important part of the sport. To ensure its growth and future. That without fixing, your entire series is going to die.

Doesn't sound like a bad investment nor one that SHOULD be cost prohibitive for a national series with 50y of history.

So basically: DO IT.
Having seen mav just fail miserably at it, who’s 6 mill do you think should pay for it?
7/18/2022 12:49pm
i agree with your entire hypothesis. that said, so $6m total. For the single most important part of the sport. To ensure its growth and future...
i agree with your entire hypothesis.

that said, so $6m total. For the single most important part of the sport. To ensure its growth and future. That without fixing, your entire series is going to die.

Doesn't sound like a bad investment nor one that SHOULD be cost prohibitive for a national series with 50y of history.

So basically: DO IT.
scott_nz wrote:
Having seen mav just fail miserably at it, who’s 6 mill do you think should pay for it?
as a national series generating (I presume) substantial money...they should have no problem financing this and re-paying rather quickly when more guys (like me) sign up for a quality streaming network.
7/18/2022 1:11pm
ddog558 wrote:
Maybe if we had people that gave a shit about it, we wouldnt get fucked on a weekly basis. Until our sport can be watched on...
Maybe if we had people that gave a shit about it, we wouldnt get fucked on a weekly basis. Until our sport can be watched on a single channel (the whole fucking race), I'm out.
GrapeApe wrote:
I have really good news for you. Our sport can be watched on a single channel, the whole fucking race, for the first time in a...
I have really good news for you. Our sport can be watched on a single channel, the whole fucking race, for the first time in a long time. Welcome back.
Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it's working for everybody.
1
2
ti473
Posts
958
Joined
3/17/2012
Location
Arlington Heights, IL US
7/18/2022 1:13pm
I thought you all finally agreed on consolidating all the streaming/broadcasting related bitching into one thread instead of creating 10 a day.
2
gt80rider
Posts
6910
Joined
4/19/2008
Location
Boulder, CO US
7/18/2022 1:26pm
They are too busy buying into the modern model of sucking every last penny out of the hardcore (shtty apps with shtty coverage at xyz dollars per month), instead of doing what is right for the long term health of the series (live and FREE on Youtube).

/thread
3
1
Magoofan
Posts
10401
Joined
5/4/2021
Location
Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA US
7/18/2022 6:52pm
I just don't care anymore.

1
mvd61
Posts
1193
Joined
10/15/2021
Location
Brandon, SD US
7/18/2022 8:10pm
I’d have no problem paying $200 for sx/mx each if it was as easy as watching Netflix. It’s the only tv I really get to watch.
1
jeffro503
Posts
27629
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
7/18/2022 8:42pm
Motodave15 wrote:
Since SX and MX have lost NBC streaming. What is stopping them from releasing a joint streaming product with the quality of F1 or WRC+?? Id...
Since SX and MX have lost NBC streaming.

What is stopping them from releasing a joint streaming product with the quality of F1 or WRC+??

Id like for the streaming service to have historic races from the vaults too. I mean with my F1 app i can watch races from the 1970s.


On the Infrastructure side of things, Who can afford to rent the space or place it in a already used spaced?.. Do the Rack and stacking (Installation of servers and switches) etc.

Either the people at the top don't understand or they just don't want to wait for ROI after its done, but complete streaming control and able to do as you please has to be pretty damn nice.

(Side note; I run my own personal plex server to stream movies/music for our family, it is not as hard as people claim, once the data is there on the SSD Drive.. it sits there until activated, which requires freaking no maintenance on my part besides updates/ additions and removals for space)
Supermega1 wrote:
Cost mostly and time. As they say in software development anything can be done with enough time and money. The problem is you always run out...
Cost mostly and time. As they say in software development anything can be done with enough time and money. The problem is you always run out of both.

Cost to build the software
10 developer team rough cost per developer $125,000 (low side) a year = $1,250,000 a year

Probably need a team twice that size. But for this example, we'll use a 10-man team working for a year to build the software. So if we started today you wouldn't have anything functioning for a year.

The cost of hosting 50 years of Moto and 30 years of SX video is probably $500 a month (rough rough estimate) = $6,000 a year

Bandwidth
This is where your numbers will be all over the place. Let's say 1 moto for MX is .5 of a gig and you watch 4 motos, that's 2 gigs per person that streams. 75,000 people stream your 2 gigs of video you are looking at $200-300 per TB of data depending upon who you are using so that's $45,000 in data per week.

Multiply that by 29 weeks of racing you have about $1,305,000.

Plus if you're using AWS you are probably paying for CPU cycles as well. So toss a bunch more in for that.

So
$1.25 million+ to build it
$1.3 million+ to host/serve it.
$1.25 million+ to maintain it per year for developers alone.

This is why you don't make your own version and you use someone else's software that has already eaten all the costs and get volume discounts on bandwidth.

I've seen 15-20k spent a month on AWS just to host eCommerce sites, POS, and Business back-offices. So that's $180,000 to $240,000 a year just for something that is not bandwidth intensive like video.

(all numbers are for example purposes and not 100% accurate, so don't roast me I was just trying to layout a proper example for "its easy").
How is MXGP making it work?

Whoever / whatever is in charge of that streaming service is doing it correctly!

We need to follow that! Exactly that!
1
7/18/2022 9:41pm
jeffro503 wrote:
How is MXGP making it work? Whoever / whatever is in charge of that streaming service is doing it correctly! We need to follow that! Exactly...
How is MXGP making it work?

Whoever / whatever is in charge of that streaming service is doing it correctly!

We need to follow that! Exactly that!
Charging $1000 a round entry fee and not paying prize money
-MAVERICK-
Posts
65550
Joined
3/26/2015
Location
Ontario CA
7/18/2022 10:03pm
jeffro503 wrote:
How is MXGP making it work? Whoever / whatever is in charge of that streaming service is doing it correctly! We need to follow that! Exactly...
How is MXGP making it work?

Whoever / whatever is in charge of that streaming service is doing it correctly!

We need to follow that! Exactly that!
scott_nz wrote:
Charging $1000 a round entry fee and not paying prize money
Curious to know, how much is it to enter in the EMX classes?
romain524
Posts
750
Joined
1/14/2015
Location
Newport Coast, CA US
7/18/2022 10:46pm
jeffro503 wrote:
How is MXGP making it work? Whoever / whatever is in charge of that streaming service is doing it correctly! We need to follow that! Exactly...
How is MXGP making it work?

Whoever / whatever is in charge of that streaming service is doing it correctly!

We need to follow that! Exactly that!
scott_nz wrote:
Charging $1000 a round entry fee and not paying prize money
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Curious to know, how much is it to enter in the EMX classes?
It’s 300 euros. That’s why you see many more riders entering.
Until about 2015/2016 you could only pay entries cash, no card payment.
2
Last Braaap
Posts
1691
Joined
4/19/2019
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow CZ
7/19/2022 1:59am Edited Date/Time 7/19/2022 2:00am
scott_nz wrote:
Charging $1000 a round entry fee and not paying prize money
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Curious to know, how much is it to enter in the EMX classes?
romain524 wrote:
It’s 300 euros. That’s why you see many more riders entering.
Until about 2015/2016 you could only pay entries cash, no card payment.
If you paid cash did you get invoice or bill of any kind? Grinning That sounds like Tax fraud Al Capone would be salivating violently over if he would be still alive. Cool
3
davis224
Posts
7367
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
7/19/2022 12:24pm
mvd61 wrote:
I’d have no problem paying $200 for sx/mx each if it was as easy as watching Netflix. It’s the only tv I really get to watch.
I dunno about each, but overall I'd be down if it checked all the boxes.
DonM
Posts
8389
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Fantasy
7/19/2022 12:39pm
gt80rider wrote:
They are too busy buying into the modern model of sucking every last penny out of the hardcore (shtty apps with shtty coverage at xyz dollars...
They are too busy buying into the modern model of sucking every last penny out of the hardcore (shtty apps with shtty coverage at xyz dollars per month), instead of doing what is right for the long term health of the series (live and FREE on Youtube).

/thread
So if $6.99 is sucking every last penny from you I'm pretty sure your problems are much greater than an app.....
3
7/19/2022 5:42pm
MXGP and MOTOGP have been making race streaming work for over a decade now, never miss a minute of the actions, replays and past races are easily available. Downside is the price, depending on the exchange rate its about $35 a month.

bvm111
Posts
10080
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
7/19/2022 6:03pm

1
Alex814
Posts
1198
Joined
12/18/2014
Location
IL US
7/20/2022 7:59am
ddog558 wrote:
Maybe if we had people that gave a shit about it, we wouldnt get fucked on a weekly basis. Until our sport can be watched on...
Maybe if we had people that gave a shit about it, we wouldnt get fucked on a weekly basis. Until our sport can be watched on a single channel (the whole fucking race), I'm out.
GrapeApe wrote:
I have really good news for you. Our sport can be watched on a single channel, the whole fucking race, for the first time in a...
I have really good news for you. Our sport can be watched on a single channel, the whole fucking race, for the first time in a long time. Welcome back.
Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it's working for everybody.
Have there been problems with the MAVTV cable channel? I think that's what he's referring to.
Layton
Posts
347
Joined
8/16/2018
Location
Geneseo, IL US
7/20/2022 9:13am
Alex814 wrote:
Have there been problems with the MAVTV cable channel? I think that's what he's referring to.
The Mavtv cable feed is working great. I know it’s a add on subscription for some people, me included, but it’s worth it. 👍😊

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