Hey old tymers. Tell me about the BASS

slipdog
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slipdog 3/18/2022 6:15am
3/18/2022 6:15am
mxshot wrote:
Something I learned many years ago that I found really interesting was that the rear shocks that used the BASS system were produced by SOKI, YAMAHA's...
Something I learned many years ago that I found really interesting was that the rear shocks that used the BASS system were produced by SOKI, YAMAHA's suspension factory. They produced all the MONOCROSS Monoshock components on MONOSHOCK YZs. KAYABA KYB was producing the production front forks but SOKI was the rear shock supplier for years. But I found out that during that production run of the BASS system, the domestic YZs sold in Japan used KAYABA produced BASS shock absorbers! Very strange!
Off topic from BASS but it is my understanding that SOKI is still involved with the production of components for KYB as well as other current suspension manufacturers, is that correct?

Not that it is terribly relevant to anything but I found that information interesting and it made sense as to why things like seals and bushings interchange within several fork brands.
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mxshot
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mxshot 3/18/2022 9:22am
3/18/2022 9:22am
Ted722 wrote:
So, let's bring this to today. Is this diagram (on left) somewhat describing what we have with rear discs today? Brake torque transferred to the swing-arm...
So, let's bring this to today. Is this diagram (on left) somewhat describing what we have with rear discs today? Brake torque transferred to the swing-arm? Is it just a cost/simplicity decision today?

...vs the brake torque transmitted to the frame via brake stay arm..





And a gratuitous Bubba video and his mastery of the rear brake. Less effective if he hit the rear brake in mid-air with the floating rear brake of yesteryear (with brake torque transferred to frame)?


I was wondering about this same thing several years ago, and could get no reasonable answers. So I decided to try and test it on my modern (at the time) 2008 KXF450. It would require removing the anchor lug between the swingarm and rear disc brake mount, make sure the caliper mount could float on the axle, and fashioning some kind of mount for the arm attached to the main frame. I laid up everything to pull this off, but then when I tried to lift the wheel thru the full rear wheel stroke, the brake caliper would have slammed into the silencer! I gave it up after that. I'm sure that was not the reason the full floating rear brake was never designed into modern bikes with disc brakes, but it was certainly enough to put the kibosh on my test.
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mxshot
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mxshot 3/18/2022 9:28am
3/18/2022 9:28am
mxshot wrote:
Something I learned many years ago that I found really interesting was that the rear shocks that used the BASS system were produced by SOKI, YAMAHA's...
Something I learned many years ago that I found really interesting was that the rear shocks that used the BASS system were produced by SOKI, YAMAHA's suspension factory. They produced all the MONOCROSS Monoshock components on MONOSHOCK YZs. KAYABA KYB was producing the production front forks but SOKI was the rear shock supplier for years. But I found out that during that production run of the BASS system, the domestic YZs sold in Japan used KAYABA produced BASS shock absorbers! Very strange!
slipdog wrote:
Off topic from BASS but it is my understanding that SOKI is still involved with the production of components for KYB as well as other current...
Off topic from BASS but it is my understanding that SOKI is still involved with the production of components for KYB as well as other current suspension manufacturers, is that correct?

Not that it is terribly relevant to anything but I found that information interesting and it made sense as to why things like seals and bushings interchange within several fork brands.
As far as I know, the answer to that is NO. They do not produce any stuff for KYB. I remember when YAMAHA had bought into OHLINS many years ago, a lot of OHLINS engineers possibly did work at SOKI, because their design personality seemed to seep into SOKI components. I am not even sure about SOKI's current status. Possibly gone?
2
Dirty Points 3/18/2022 9:32am
3/18/2022 9:32am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2022 10:35am
mxshot wrote:
Something I learned many years ago that I found really interesting was that the rear shocks that used the BASS system were produced by SOKI, YAMAHA's...
Something I learned many years ago that I found really interesting was that the rear shocks that used the BASS system were produced by SOKI, YAMAHA's suspension factory. They produced all the MONOCROSS Monoshock components on MONOSHOCK YZs. KAYABA KYB was producing the production front forks but SOKI was the rear shock supplier for years. But I found out that during that production run of the BASS system, the domestic YZs sold in Japan used KAYABA produced BASS shock absorbers! Very strange!
slipdog wrote:
Off topic from BASS but it is my understanding that SOKI is still involved with the production of components for KYB as well as other current...
Off topic from BASS but it is my understanding that SOKI is still involved with the production of components for KYB as well as other current suspension manufacturers, is that correct?

Not that it is terribly relevant to anything but I found that information interesting and it made sense as to why things like seals and bushings interchange within several fork brands.
mxshot wrote:
As far as I know, the answer to that is NO. They do not produce any stuff for KYB. I remember when YAMAHA had bought into...
As far as I know, the answer to that is NO. They do not produce any stuff for KYB. I remember when YAMAHA had bought into OHLINS many years ago, a lot of OHLINS engineers possibly did work at SOKI, because their design personality seemed to seep into SOKI components. I am not even sure about SOKI's current status. Possibly gone?
Most of Yamaha's motorcycles, scooters, ATVs, snowmobiles are on Yamaha SOKI (YMHSC) components. Only premium and competition models use other suspension OEMs.

SOKI-equipped Yamaha probably outsell KYB/FOX/Ohlins equipped ones globally by at least an order of magnitude.
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MotoxTodd
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MotoxTodd 3/18/2022 10:10am
3/18/2022 10:10am
I remember get my 1986 YZ 125 and buying into the hype. Shot story long, if you landed with your foot on the brake it would just bottom out………… unhooked it after a month and never looked back.Sounded like a good idea just did not work in the real world. I always wondered how it made it through development and testing? 🤔
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Leave Us To
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Leave Us To 3/18/2022 7:10pm
3/18/2022 7:10pm
hartebreak wrote:
What about the Amplink?
AKA the torque eliminator and unlike BASS, it works very well. Seems like one of the teams used it briefly but it was standard equipment on ATKs. A buddy of mine had one on his CR250 and loved it. Rear end didn't squat from chain torque and he said his starts improved in addition to his bike handling better.


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Leave Us To
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Leave Us To 3/18/2022 7:12pm
3/18/2022 7:12pm
MotoxTodd wrote:
I remember get my 1986 YZ 125 and buying into the hype. Shot story long, if you landed with your foot on the brake it would...
I remember get my 1986 YZ 125 and buying into the hype. Shot story long, if you landed with your foot on the brake it would just bottom out………… unhooked it after a month and never looked back.Sounded like a good idea just did not work in the real world. I always wondered how it made it through development and testing? 🤔
Speaking of hype, when the first Yamaha monoshocks were released they were bloated pigs. Would love to know what the weight increase was over the twin shockers.
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wpark89
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wpark89 3/18/2022 8:25pm
3/18/2022 8:25pm
It is interesting that the BASS made it to production…..I assume they had to have tested it for a few years and found it effective. It could have been something that it worked with the KYBs but not the Soki shock…reminds me of hearing that the original KTM PDS design was great with a Ohlins shock in pre production, then they went with a WP for production and it didn’t have the same results.

As far as the floating brake arm, the only ones i recall seeing on a disc brake were the 86-88 KTMs and the Tuf Trak that Tuf Racing sold for KXs.


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Jeremy A.K.
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Jeremy A.K. 3/19/2022 4:28am
3/19/2022 4:28am
reded301 wrote:
I didn’t see anyone finishing any better after bragging about their Splitfire so I stuck with $2 NGK’s.
With roost boost i assume...?

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