Posts
2167
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Somewhere in, NJ, USA
Edited Date/Time
5/11/2022 4:45pm
I am starting another build.. the bike that transformed motocross, the 1973 Honda CR250M. There are a lot of nice builds out there and a few nice "survivors" out there with only modest impact of time on the paint, rubber parts and so forth, so to make this build distinctive, I am trying to build the bike with as many NOS parts as possible, including every original nut and bolt. This far, I have about 45% of the bike in new NOS parts. It is easier to list what I will reuse from an existing CR250M and need to make look again. These are the parts are are impossible to find NOS, for example, the frame, swingarm, engine center cases, seat, fuel tank, exhaust pipe, upper fork tubes, rims and hubs. Just about everything else will be NOS. Many of the nice builds out there, may be close, but don't have the original paint finish. The original engine cases have a brownish black licorice color that is hard to reproduce. The engine cases for this build are new in the original Honda wrapping paper.
The bike I starting the build is one of the first 521 1973 Cr250M's off the production line. A little history.. Sochiro Honda had no interest in building 2 strokes back in the early 1970's. Development of the first CR250M was done in secret by a group of developers in Honda R&D without the knowledge of Sochiro Honda. The new bike was such a big hit that he naturally came around and motocross would be set on a new trajectory.
However, when they first started up the production line, there was a hiccup when the production crankshafts were not available to be put into the engines and this would cause a major delay in the launch of the all new race bike. To prevent any delay, Honda made the very expensive decision to make special billet crankshafts for the first 500 or so engines off the production line.
Among the NOS parts I have gathered for the bike, here is an original NOS billet crank for the 1973 CR250M. It is a true work of art and hard to imagine that Honda absorbed the cost of making this piece in order to get the first 500 or so bikes to the market.



Here are some of the many hundreds of NOS parts I have collected for the build. Not in the picture are the bags of internal parts.. I have a bag of NOS fork internals, shock internals, transmission parts, etc.

Here is the original donor bike I am working with. Less than half of the bike will remain in the final build. The frame is in perfect condition with no dings or rust, so a good start to this build.


The bike I starting the build is one of the first 521 1973 Cr250M's off the production line. A little history.. Sochiro Honda had no interest in building 2 strokes back in the early 1970's. Development of the first CR250M was done in secret by a group of developers in Honda R&D without the knowledge of Sochiro Honda. The new bike was such a big hit that he naturally came around and motocross would be set on a new trajectory.
However, when they first started up the production line, there was a hiccup when the production crankshafts were not available to be put into the engines and this would cause a major delay in the launch of the all new race bike. To prevent any delay, Honda made the very expensive decision to make special billet crankshafts for the first 500 or so engines off the production line.
Among the NOS parts I have gathered for the bike, here is an original NOS billet crank for the 1973 CR250M. It is a true work of art and hard to imagine that Honda absorbed the cost of making this piece in order to get the first 500 or so bikes to the market.



Here are some of the many hundreds of NOS parts I have collected for the build. Not in the picture are the bags of internal parts.. I have a bag of NOS fork internals, shock internals, transmission parts, etc.

Here is the original donor bike I am working with. Less than half of the bike will remain in the final build. The frame is in perfect condition with no dings or rust, so a good start to this build.


On Monday, I will be removing them from their original boxes for the first time since Honda boxed them up at the factory and will share the pics.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
I had a CR250M, a nice racer in the early 90s. There was a great parts guy at John Burr Cycles in Fontana, CA. I went in looking for a seat. He got me an MR seat with the steel pan. He new it was wrong and somehow got ahold of someone at the warehouse in Torrance and found a NOS seat, in the wrapper for me. I thought it was cool and didn't appreciate what I had at the time.
This is going to be good.
These early aluminum tanks were so beautiful.
The steel in these old down-pipes are much thicker than a modern pipe, but hard to believe they were expected to last more than a few laps around the track.
I thought I was done as I have no more room for bikes, but here we go again. This bike is going into my bedroom. The bike is so small (compared to a modern mx bike), I can put the bike at the foot of my bed and still see over it and watch TV
I know you are going full bore on that bike and we all wanting updates! Yes, I would be I interested in your leftovers. Still working on my ‘79 as well. Finally got the swing arm for it we were both looking for from Karl, it was worth the wait.
PK
Will you paint it Tahitian red or leave it natural?
Pit Row
Where did you get that pipe? I noticed that it curves down lower just below the frame like the RC pipe did.
Is that a VMX or 76-77 CR125 OEM front fender?
You just need to find that white gas cap like the RC's had.
mike
If so, it's Fantastic
It is the stock tank. Couldn’t get any info from Holly about getting the RC tank and I can’t spend the $1200 for it now.
I think it looks different due to the lower rise handlebars. I think it makes it look like the hump back tank.
The pipe is a PFR pipe that I removed their badge off of to make it look more factory.
Yes the fender is from VMX and is a ‘76 model.
I am trying to have the gas cap 3D printed in white. A guy modeled it for me and has the program, but trying to get the right material and have it made.
Bearuno, Yes Karl has been back in business for a while now.
It only requires money and a little detective work to find these parts. Nevertheless, an NOS front number plate can cost about $800 and an NOS fuel tank several thousand dollars. Used parts aren't much cheaper. A cracked and scraped side panel can still cost $350. Not a build for the faint of heart, a badly rusted air filter cage on ebay can go for $250, a many times crushed and repaired exhaust pipe can go for $1,000. The other day a guy on ebay was selling half of a front plate for $200.. almost half the plate was missing! They even go as far as selling used head gaskets and clutch plates for not small money, so with all this craziness going on, the spendy NOS 73/74 NOS parts seem like a better deal.
Here is an NOS rear fender for which I mounted to the frame temporarily to affix the sticker that outlines some of the specs of the bike. I still need to get the frame bead blasted and painted, but I prefer assembling new parts as they come in so that gets the priority
This build will include NOS parts that are not just the pretty cosmetic parts, but all the engine internals (save for a few gears) will be NOS. This bike will not just look showroom new, but it will ride and feel new. I have a separate bag of small NOS parts for the carb, clutch, fork, shocks, ignition, body hardware, etc. In addition, I have boxes with an NOS billet crank, stator, both clutch baskets and pressure plate, transmission and shift shafts, etc.
Every part in this assembly is NOS. I noted that while Honda used gloss black for the frame, the brake plates, hubs, brake arm, silencer stay, chain guide are all painted Satin Black which should be useful info for those people looking to repaint their restoration parts. The NOS engine covers are what I would call a "dirty" semi-flat black. There is a hint of brown in this black, like the color of dirty motor oil. I found myself replacing a lot of really nice used parts that just needed a fresh repaint, just to get the original, unmarked finish of the NOS parts.
Again, the hub, brake plate, brake arm, hardware are all correct NOS. Naturally, NOS cables, axles, etc. will be used.
There are a few NOS parts I am still looking for;
-lower left fork leg,
-one more rear shock spring (main spring),
-rear brake pedal pivot bolt,
-one rear shock seal cap
This build aims to be the next best thing to finding an almost half century old bike still new in the crate.
I still need to get my frame and swing arm bead blasted and painted. One of the exhaust pipe spring mounts was mussing so I fabricated a couple from tool steel rod. Came out nearly identical. I need to get it TIG welded to the frame before painting. Otherwise the frame is perfect with no rust or dents in the bottom frame rails. It is one of the few parts I am reusing from the original bike since since other than the seat, engine center cases, cylinder and a couple of other minor pieces, all will be replaced by NOS parts.
-Shock body/ seal cap for a 10mm shaft (52412-357-010)
-Standard shock spring (52402-357-670)
-Lower left fork leg (51521-357-300)
-Rear brake pedal pivot bolt (46513-357-010)
Getting started, the frame was sand blasted after putting cheap hardware store metric bolts in every bolt hole as well as plastic plugs in every orifice. This helped keep the bolt threads unmolested and sand out of the orifices that could fall out during the painting process. Before doing this, I used a thread chaser in every bolt hole, fixed the exhaust pipe mount with a time-sert threaded insert (this is one area on the bike that is very weak and often in need of attention. I did also have to weld on a new wire loop on the lower frame for an exhaust spring, but other than this, the frame rails were perfect with no dents or rust. The welding done by Honda at the factory was atrocious.. unsightly and I can’t believe I actually used to take these bikes over jumps when I was young.. the OEM welds looked like they were done by a 1st grader. Also, be careful when removing the lower steering bearing race. It is a bitch to get out… it sits in a deep recess that is a tolerance fit the whole length of the recess and the race will try to cock sideways on you in spite of careful efforts as you bang it out. It was a real PIA. Also, I had a major problem with the bronze swingarm bushings that someone had installed previously.. they were impossible to bang out and blind bearing pullers were too short.. I had to use a Dremel tool with a grinder bit to cut 2 lines down the length of each bearing to get them to collapse slightly on themselves and relieve the pressure from the press fit before they would bang out with a long chisel. It was a lot of work.
The frame was painted with a PPG 2-stage gloss black at the local paint shop. The other parts were painted at home to replicate what Honda did at the factory.. only the frame had a decent paint job and the other parts such as the inner engine cases, exhaust stay, foot pegs, kickstand, etc. did not have a high quality paint job from the factory like the frame. Anyway, few of my parts needed painting because I was using NOS parts in pristine condition.
Here is an example of an NOS part that is very hard to find.. it is a chain rub block that mounts on the inner frame. I always thought they were rubber, but actually it is a piece of hollow metal that Honda decided on in all their infinite wisdom and lack of technology at the time.
The rear shocks were rebuilt with all new parts and only the shock bodies were salvaged used parts. Finding the right color silver to exactly match the oem grayish silver was not easy and I tried 10 different rattle can paints before I was satisfied with Krylon “Dull Aluminum”. This was the closest I could find. I used 5 weight oil and heavier weight oil was not recommended by Race Tech. Dampening is minimal in these old designs and I would recommend using 5 or 7 weight oil. I used a total of about 115cc of oil in each shock. You want to fill each shock to about the level of the bottom of the cap threads and so each rod guide is just covered by the oil. You do not want to overfill it so that you start to compress the oil when you screw the cap down into the shock body. As for the shock springs, I refused to reuse 50 year old sagging springs and sourcing NOS springs was not easy. The lower springs were somewhat easy to find, but for the upper main spring I was only able to find one 250 spring while I found a pair of 125 springs. Honda only offered an optional softer spring for the 250 which you don’t want as the standard springs were way too soft. What I discovered was that their thinking changed after their first Elsinore launch and the 1974/ 1975 CR125 standard spring was in fact not a lighter spring than the 250. I measured the wire thickness which was the exact same and did compression tests and they seem to be the exact same spring rate. Moreover, the 125 spring is about 1/8” longer than the 250 spring so they offer a little more preload. I went with the 125 springs as the better option to match the heavier race tech fork springs I am using on the front. I found the best way to remove and install the shock springs was by tying them to a floor jack with two thin nylon tie-down straps and then jacking up the jack. Worked like a charm and protects the paint on the springs compared to other methods. The blue shock decals are available as reproductions from Re-MX, but you will only find the “360” and “395” model decals and not the correct “357” number decal. Still makes for a good visual effect though even if the number is not correct. I also recommend getting the special shock cap wrenches from UTI. There are different wrench patterns for the caps for the 10mm and 12.5mm shock shafts. They also sell very nice CNC machined Delrin shock spring rub sleeves that look identical to the originals but are much stronger and self-lubricating.
I discovered that the NOS shock spring preload adjusters didn’t match even though they had the same part number. It turns out that the first design was breaking all too regularly so Honda switched to a stronger design in late 1973 and 1974. After a quick trade with another builder, I ended up with a matching NOS pair of the later style. In the pic below, you can see the 2 different preload adjuster designs and how the older design was very weak at its thinnest point. Not a lot of metal there.
Likewise, the carb was rebuilt using all NOS parts and I only reused the carb body and fuel bowl which I sent out to be vapor blasted. Be aware that Honda used 2 different carbs in 1973-1974.. I have the older "679B" design. Here is a pic (below) of some NOS carb floats which were really hard to find, but got lucky. I also replaced the carb cap, slide, air screw, idle screw, choke mechanism, needles and jets with correct NOS parts so I had close to a brand new carb at the end. I wanted a bike that not only looks dealership fresh but also runs like one.
I have been waiting for an update on this build! Love it! Please keep posting the progress.
I have had a lot of problems with the Honda NOS parts, taken right out of the original unopened packaging, not fitting. The NOS rear fender had rivets that were far too long to mount on the frame so I had to cut them back a bit. This is the case of missing the last finishing step at the factory. All was well after a little Dremel tool action as I just had to cut off the excess hollow shell of the rivet and never touched the stud that runs down the middle of the rivet. I just had the same problem with NOS shift forks which were never finished honed to fit on the shaft. I had 2 sets bought from different sources that had this problem. I am talking about the stronger "395" shift forks. Honda quality was a bit spotty in those days, perhaps.
Here is another shot of the NOS chain rub pad.. usually missing on most used bikes such that they are almost a unicorn part now and rarely seen. They are just held on by tiny screws so no wonder.. and once the chain cuts through the metal, the chain will grab that part and rip it right off the frame. No exactly a genius design.
One thing I didn't mention about the swing arm was that I had decided not to use the original nylon swingarm bushings even though I found an NOS set. I first bought bronze bushings but the ID was not machined properly and the internal swingarm collar would not fit through it. I then sourced another set of bronze bushings from a different manufacturer which fit fine. I also bought a set of Delrin bushings which were very nice and fit perfectly, but decided to go with the bronze in the end. This presented the next problem.. I had a set of extremely hard to find original "357" swingarm dust caps. No matter how hard I tried, I could not get them to fit over the ends of the bronze bushings. However, the Honda OEM supersession "52144-356-005" part fit just fine although it is not painted black like the original "357" dust caps. Instead it is zinc coated followed by a rubberized coating. Once installed, it is extremely hard to notice the difference. I guess the original design were rusting out and Honda made the change. Another unexpected problem solved.
Another thing I noticed is the NOS fenders and side plates are not really painted on the inside/ underneath. They maybe have a very light silver dusting at most or nothing at all or perhaps some green overspray. Moreover, while the rear fender is finished in a high gloss clear over the special metallic silver, the front fender has almost a matte finish. The green on the tank and number plates is also very flat.. they never cleared over the green stripe on the tank, but instead painted the flat green stripe over the cleared aluminum tanks supposedly to minimize glare from the sun in racing conditions
The lower fork legs came from the factory with a clear coating. Hard to tell, but they may have had a gray coating under the clear. While a am aiming to be very close to original with every minutia with this bike, I pondered whether to go with the original coating or to polish the legs. For the last 3 months I had both side by side in my office before I decided a polished lower leg looks so much nicer by a mile. This is the one area I deviated from the original and I wouldn't consider it with any other parts, but it looks right to me.
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