Posts
450
Joined
11/19/2017
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Edited Date/Time
12/20/2021 5:21am
Considering a new tm 144.
Have and had 125s & 150s, love the motor in my 19 ktm 150xcw with rk tek head, v4r and exhaust wicked bottom, fat midrange and great top end.... Bought both new ktm 4 strokes and 250 2 stroke dont like any of them them so I know I wont like a tm thumper no matter how good it is.
Not concerned with ordering parts online only for it, just cant find any good setup and upgrade info online like I did with my ktm 150. Id get a new 150sx other than ive also determined I hate the aer forks and the kyb would suit me best so the TM is automatically desirable because of this.
Id like to get the bike with a modded motor dont need to ride it first really because I'm in the "not typical" zone of 150 isnt quite enough and the 250's just dont rev out at all, not a new yz250 and certainly not a 250sx.
I raced shifter karts at a high level and dont know why I cant have a 15:1, 14-15k rpm screamer thats making 45wheel. Im willing to pay if its a proven setup. I also generally like unique stuff like my mv agusta even tho it was at least 150hrs to setup and had to do all the ecu tuning myself... dont want to do that again with a mx bike.
I suppose the real question is... which would be the better bike for me with 4k into it? A new 150sx whichnis a known variable and change out the forks or the tm144 and the unknown variable is the motor and ergos.
Have and had 125s & 150s, love the motor in my 19 ktm 150xcw with rk tek head, v4r and exhaust wicked bottom, fat midrange and great top end.... Bought both new ktm 4 strokes and 250 2 stroke dont like any of them them so I know I wont like a tm thumper no matter how good it is.
Not concerned with ordering parts online only for it, just cant find any good setup and upgrade info online like I did with my ktm 150. Id get a new 150sx other than ive also determined I hate the aer forks and the kyb would suit me best so the TM is automatically desirable because of this.
Id like to get the bike with a modded motor dont need to ride it first really because I'm in the "not typical" zone of 150 isnt quite enough and the 250's just dont rev out at all, not a new yz250 and certainly not a 250sx.
I raced shifter karts at a high level and dont know why I cant have a 15:1, 14-15k rpm screamer thats making 45wheel. Im willing to pay if its a proven setup. I also generally like unique stuff like my mv agusta even tho it was at least 150hrs to setup and had to do all the ecu tuning myself... dont want to do that again with a mx bike.
I suppose the real question is... which would be the better bike for me with 4k into it? A new 150sx whichnis a known variable and change out the forks or the tm144 and the unknown variable is the motor and ergos.
Me and my brother has had a lot of them over the years.
2010 TM 300 MX 2T
2013 TM 300MX 2T x2
2016 TM 144 MX Special order with old mechanical exhaust valve and factory porting
2015 TM 300 EN 2T x2
2013 TM 125 EN
2001 TM 300 MX 2T x2
2014 TM 450 MX
2015 TM 450 MX
2016 TM 300 EN 2T
2016 TM 300 MX 4S
2016 MX 250 2T
2017 MX 300 2T
Never rode the 144 mx because of weight (250 lbs) but my brother loved it.
Hes like 175lbs ish and digged it.
I Always fix my suspension so no tips from me there.
My brother always rides with Öhlins rear. Sometimes Öhlins inserts also.
But stock is good!!
I love the TM to bits. The KYB forks are amazing. TMs own shock but has KYB internals and works just as well as the forks. Reliability has been great and the build quality is better than any bike i've ever owned.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Not sure if you have seen Black Diamond's 2t TM builds. He is a member I have a lot of respect for on this site. The dude knows his stuff..
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Bike-Builds,46/Full-Tilt-TM-Two-Stroke-B…
What the riding triangle like compared to the ktm? higher pegs, lower seat, closer bars? With your bikes being as nice as they are I imagine you have a scale and know the real #'s if you care to share? Also have a dyno?
I had the same issues with selling a KTM in the late 90's.
A very limited pool to sell to and I had to lower the price.
Unless you can make a deal with the dealer that include a buy back.
All that said, these bikes are wonderful, I have them on my shortlist for 2020. Been some time since my last one.
My perspective is mainly ...
KTM
-chassis
-ergos I like
-cross over training from my 19 150xcw
-great motor that im good at jetting and can set up perfect day one (at least with my xcw engine character)
-dealer I bought my other 5 ktms from will sell me a 19 for 6400 otd.
TM
-forks
-lots of unknowns
-not local but closest dealer says 7k for an 18'(19" being identical bike)
my riding style is smooth and flowing I dont really point and shoot and square up and blast/hammer stuff which is what the ktms are setup for the most aggressive riders/pros.
And a race mod shop first and foremost (no way could make a living selling tms)
If you want what’s common - get the Ktm or husky. It’s a great bike that has a modern and strong engine, light weight everything (with some smattering of issues due to this in some people’s transmissions but mostly reliable) and a fairly good chassis with a mediocre set of suspension.
Parts are widely available and lots of aftermarket - some of which is worse than stock - but lots of it
The Tm
Very strong engine - on par or slightly better than Ktm stock to stock (and let’s be clear - a Ktm is a 144), with lots of potential for more with some simple mods
In my opinion - and many who have ridden them, it has the best chassis out there, period. It’s well balanced, turns amazing but isn’t nervous
It has stellar forks (kyb sss) with valving that’s about identical to 2010 Yz250f’s (I prefer stiffer than stock closer to current Yzf)
The shock is a works shock - and no it’s not kyb internals - it’s better - with really good stock valving. It’s firm without being harsh, ultra light weight and trick looking. Shy of dlc shaft (which wp going away from now..) it’s about all you can do
Negatives - engine is heavier than Ktm. Rest of bike is ultra light, but engine has more mass to the cases and overall design
Price - they ain’t cheap
Less aftermarket - although more than youd think.
Resale - probably worse but then again it’s a limited market. Not much competition on one vs reselling a Ktm.
Plastics - shrouds are a tad flimsy and all plastics are a little pricey vs aftermarket other brands. In line or less than most other brands oem
Gas tank cap. It leaks on some (made by acerbis)
I’m working on this - it pisses me off.
Parts are no issue - I stock piston and gaskets, complete clutches, wheel bearings, bolt kits, etc
And any tm dealer in the USA is less than 5 days out on any part you need - I’ve never had the importer not have something I’ve needed to date.
I’d actually say TM parts are faster to acquire than most dealers now days...by a good margin
I can’t possibly say it’s head and shoulders over a Ktm. It’s mostly just very unique, with a stellar chassis and on par engine (at minimum)
And it has ultra nice build and oem parts. As showcased in black diamonds build thread.
TM build quality is 2nd to none! When you really go through the bikes and see how they are built it’s impressive!
I thought the bikes would have some quirks being so different, they really don’t. Totally mainstream to get setup and ergos.
My son is a Pro/Expert off-road and Endurocross racer. Also does some MX. He has used the same bike for all those purposes, been on some extremely tough riders and the bikes just hold up awesome. Hasn’t broken a thing that wasn’t crash related. Also nothing comes loose on the bike like it does on others. After 6 months I’m beyond impressed with TM!
Also maybe it’s just me, but I’ve never had a problem selling any of the Beta’s, Sherco or TM that we’ve had. They always sell fast!
I’ve
I don’t have numbers as I had no need to do it. I was lent a TM to test end of last year and couldn’t believe how similar to ergos were to my husky. Bar-seat-peg position is really comfortable and similar to the husky.
I’ve not dyno’d mine, but a guy i know dyno’d a 2019 YZ125 back to back with an 18 TM125 and a 19 SX150. Can’t remember the exact figures but the TM was a different league to the YZ125 and very close to the KTM 150 figure.
Pit Row
Not to hijack, and I'm surprised they have such a range of them, but TM's 4 Strokes... How are those?
2003 300 MX
2010 300 MX
2015 125 EN
2013 450 MX
2015 450 MX
2015 300 Mx
2016 300 MX
2015 300 EN
2004 300 EN
I also have my trusty 300 MX 2003 since 10+ years back
I Currently own a TM 450mx 2015 with over 160 hours on it. Ive put all the hours on the 450 and only had an bearing for outgoing shaft break.
The 450 is not the best 450 out there. It is heavy and feels big.
it has BIG power low/mid. Runs out of juice pretty quickly.
It suits me good thou. Im 6"1 250 lbs and dislike shifting haha.
I just put it in 3rd gear and it RIPS everyehere. Noting for a light guy or a beginner.
Chassi is good. Suspension is good. Suits me good
Old and odd solutions. I wouldnt buy a new 4 stroke from TM.
The engine braking on mine is Massive. I have to turn the idle up otherwise it locks the rear under
engine braking. It got better from 2017- on.
I Just like mine i have and its still a very nice powerful bike. I Can do everything with it and because of the crazy midrange can get me out of everything.
The 2 strokes are Golden though. Wow. The MX 300 is a weapon.
It can do it all with 450ish traction and midrange. I put PC/scalvini pipe to open up the upper range.
Stock pipe is all midrange. Gets tiring on sand tracks when your need to shift often.
The 250 is OK with a flywheel weight. It brakes traction to easy and spins without it.
derek,
any thoughts on the new 250 2t fi? would you personally go fi or carb for new TM 2 strokes?
Post a reply to: Who rides/races a TM 2 stroke?