Do factory guys get to “pick” pipes anymore?

Johnny Ringo
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Edited Date/Time 11/11/2021 6:46am
I remember the days of DV running an FMF pipe and PC silencer, and RC picking PC on his RMZ when Seb was on a yosh. Do factory guys still get to pick and choose or are they locked into what the team deals are?
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gt80rider
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11/10/2021 7:45am
We talking Team Fried here? Or another team?
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ML512
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Fantasy
11/10/2021 7:48am
Teams are locked in with their exhaust partners, but those brands typically build multiple versions for the team/riders to test. And it's not uncommon to see riders on the same team and bike, running two different versions of a system from that brand.
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mx317
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11/10/2021 8:56am Edited Date/Time 11/10/2021 8:56am
I remember FMF having the long and short headers for Huskys and riders picked the one they liked. I'm sure there were more, but this was the most visible.
vtec_
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11/10/2021 9:27am
from what i understand is that whoever makes the pipes will make a few for them to test and they will run what works best for said setup
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The Shop

early
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11/10/2021 10:05am Edited Date/Time 11/10/2021 10:05am
Doesn't ignition/fuel mapping changes make a bigger difference to power delivery now a days anyway?
vtec_
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11/10/2021 10:49am
early wrote:
Doesn't ignition/fuel mapping changes make a bigger difference to power delivery now a days anyway?
an exhaust system wont do much without proper tuning/jetting

when i had my cr250 i had a PC exhaust w/ the old r304 stinger style silencer and i had an fmf fatty w/ the powercore II silencer.

the fmf fatty hit WAY hard when it was properly jetted and i actually ran it a bit rich just to slow it down. bike ran mint!
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early
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11/10/2021 11:10am
vtec_ wrote:
an exhaust system wont do much without proper tuning/jetting when i had my cr250 i had a PC exhaust w/ the old r304 stinger style silencer...
an exhaust system wont do much without proper tuning/jetting

when i had my cr250 i had a PC exhaust w/ the old r304 stinger style silencer and i had an fmf fatty w/ the powercore II silencer.

the fmf fatty hit WAY hard when it was properly jetted and i actually ran it a bit rich just to slow it down. bike ran mint!
That was important with 2 strokes and carbs, today's 4 stroke pipes mainly increase flow rate vs stock while providing sufficient back pressure. They move the power around but that can be accomplished with software too. Maybe more important with a 250 vs 450. I'm not a factory rider so I have never tested multiple aftermarket pipes back to back.
nascarnate326
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11/10/2021 5:25pm
They can have whatever they want from their teams pipe manufacture which is basically anything these days.

I miss the super trick header pipes.

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captmoto
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11/10/2021 10:39pm
ML512 wrote:
Teams are locked in with their exhaust partners, but those brands typically build multiple versions for the team/riders to test. And it's not uncommon to see...
Teams are locked in with their exhaust partners, but those brands typically build multiple versions for the team/riders to test. And it's not uncommon to see riders on the same team and bike, running two different versions of a system from that brand.
Aftermarket ECUs and mapping as well to get the most from the pipes. I don't think the brands matter as much anymore due to ECUs.
Vet57
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11/11/2021 2:12am

Sandusky26
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11/11/2021 2:33am
Vet57 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/11/11/517917/s1200_download.jpg[/img]

I hate how hot they get
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SilverSpurs
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11/11/2021 6:20am
early wrote:
Doesn't ignition/fuel mapping changes make a bigger difference to power delivery now a days anyway?
No.

The engine has to have its fundamentals sorted and the timing and fuel delivery is optimised for that.
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Richy
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11/11/2021 6:39am Edited Date/Time 11/11/2021 6:40am
Got to agree with SilverSpurs.

Mapping is not a 'fix' for hardware. Especially on naturally aspirated engines and especially NA engines tuned to (or close to) the limit, like a high revving high powered bike engine in a factory/ pro level chanpionship.

I'm not sure if the factory bikes use a MAP sensor, I'm sure I've seen lambda sensors and additional wiring on a few bikes as I naturally notice it from fucking with wires all day long at work, but lambda usually go hand in hand with MAP, though I appreciate they can be useful for testing without a MAP / Barometric sensor... BUT when neither are present as is the case 99 times out of 100 on dirt scooters and tuning in Alpha-N (Alpha being throttle position, N being revs, basically mapping solely on a throttle opening Vs RPM) it is more crucial to have the pipe, cams, etc tuned for what you are trying to achieve as you are far more limited in what you can control, though it's still perfectly workable on NA motors, as proven by it, well, working...

As for the pipes, you only have to look as far as Coop and Marv or supercross vs outdoor setups to see the differences in the length of the front pipe, differences are often plenty visible in MXGP bikes also.
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early
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11/11/2021 6:46am
Ok, I just thought that pipes werent as big a part of the equation in the 4 stroke efi era as they were in the 2 stroke carb era.
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Richy
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11/11/2021 6:49am Edited Date/Time 11/11/2021 6:50am
You're probably right in it not being sooo crucial mate, I get what you're saying and I get the thought behind it 👍

I think for 99% of us it wouldn't matter much at all on a four stroke, they're relatively smooth regardless and it likely mainly changes where the power is at, but when you're super fast and super particular or know exactly what benefits you, like taking some bottom away to make it easier to hang onto and faster up top for a big open outdoor track, pro's will totally reap that benefit.
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early
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11/11/2021 7:11am
In the last 10 years I don't think I ever heard a rider say "We went with a new exhaust combo and that was really the key to unlocking the bike". Lots of "we found something in the suspension" or "We tried a new motor package that's alot better" which I assumed was more cam and comp ratio.
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Richy
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11/11/2021 7:20am
Yeah totally hear you, I'd love to know what changes they make to all the little bits, air boot or other intake changes, throttle body changes, valve size changes, injector or second injector size, angle or spray pattern changes, all that techy shit that makes old slow homies like me tick...

I get they can't talk about the majority of it, but it'll be sweet to hear about it in a few years time.
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wrc777
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Fantasy
11/11/2021 7:37am
early wrote:
Ok, I just thought that pipes werent as big a part of the equation in the 4 stroke efi era as they were in the 2...
Ok, I just thought that pipes werent as big a part of the equation in the 4 stroke efi era as they were in the 2 stroke carb era.
Two strokes develop a lot of their power curve from the pipe because there are no valves like a 4 stroke. The pressure waves in the pipe are crucial to where and how the engine generates power. The pipe almost acts like a turbo charger when you are on the pipe. Different shapes change where in the rpm range this happens and also the magnitude. It doesn't matter if it is fuel injected or carb either.

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