Jeremy Mayfield tested + for Meth!

Nerd
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7/1/2009 3:39pm
Jabjr222 wrote:
I totally get your point but concentration is part of NASCAR just like it is in other sports... Plus, Adderal is speed... It is clean, laboratory...
I totally get your point but concentration is part of NASCAR just like it is in other sports... Plus, Adderal is speed... It is clean, laboratory produced speed.

I might be a little behind on my add studies but I don't think it works like that.... I might be wrong thou... hey, look at that coffee mug...
Nerd wrote:
Well, I'm not behind on my ADD studies, and what Adderall (and other stimulants) does in people with ADD is it raises their distraction threshold. So...
Well, I'm not behind on my ADD studies, and what Adderall (and other stimulants) does in people with ADD is it raises their distraction threshold. So, whereas before being on the drug, you would be very easily distracted, when you're on the drug, you're not. You're able to concentrate much, much better.

And you're right, concentration is part of NASCAR. So is vision. Should they ban laser-eye surgery? Hey, if you weren't born with 20/20, you lose. Sorry.
txmxer wrote:
I doubt they would have made it that far if concentration was an issue. From what I know, having ADD would not affect a person during...
I doubt they would have made it that far if concentration was an issue.

From what I know, having ADD would not affect a person during high intensity activity. It's only when things are slow or they are in the midst of cognitive activities such as studying or listening to a lecture.
That's generally true, but it's also true that the more you get used to high-intensity stuff, the less your adrenaline pumps, which means the more likely you are to phase out. ADD people are way more likely to go after adrenaline-pumping activities in the first place for this very reason.
Nerd
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7/1/2009 3:41pm
Nerd wrote:
Surgery to improve that stuff isn't against any rules. When a runner breaks his leg, should he make sure only to repair it to its previous...
Surgery to improve that stuff isn't against any rules. When a runner breaks his leg, should he make sure only to repair it to its previous strength? Or do you think it's smart to make it stronger if possible?
Jabjr222 wrote:
But that is different... you can argue that the body would repair itself to a stronger state... that's the whole point of training in the first...
But that is different... you can argue that the body would repair itself to a stronger state... that's the whole point of training in the first place... you break the body down and it repairs itself and grows stronger.

If there was a surgery that made an athlete stronger or able to throw further or what not... then it would be banned (eventually)... but making a bone stronger (at the point of injury) than it was pre injury, I don't think that is a "performance enhancing" operation...

Of course, where do you draw the line? Do you forbid training because it is a performance enhancer?
I don't think a surgery would be banned. How can you test for it? Eventually, not too far from now, they're going to be into gene-doping. How do you test for that?
todder
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7/1/2009 3:43pm
Non Moto like totally non moto.

The Shop

Jabjr222
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7/1/2009 3:58pm
Nerd wrote:
I don't think a surgery would be banned. How can you test for it? Eventually, not too far from now, they're going to be into gene-doping...
I don't think a surgery would be banned. How can you test for it? Eventually, not too far from now, they're going to be into gene-doping. How do you test for that?
what is gene-doping? I mean, I know what it sounds like but I don't think it works that way...
Nerd
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7/1/2009 4:09pm
Nerd wrote:
I don't think a surgery would be banned. How can you test for it? Eventually, not too far from now, they're going to be into gene-doping...
I don't think a surgery would be banned. How can you test for it? Eventually, not too far from now, they're going to be into gene-doping. How do you test for that?
Jabjr222 wrote:
what is gene-doping? I mean, I know what it sounds like but I don't think it works that way...
Basically, it's the modification of gene expression to improve an aspect of your performance.
Jabjr222
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7/1/2009 4:23pm
Nerd wrote:
Basically, it's the modification of gene expression to improve an aspect of your performance.
How? Genes, DNA, can't be replaced, right? I mean, you can get a bone marrow transplant that would have an effect on blood cells... but unless you are controlling genetics from the start (conception), I don't see how it is possible...

BUT, the point is Adderral is a banned substance... he tested positive... NASCAR will deal with it.
ProMed
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7/1/2009 5:02pm
cdm806 wrote:
He tested positive for three (3) different substances: Adderal, Claritin-D, and meth.
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=4299586

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Independence Day came a few days early for suspended Sprint Cup driver Jeremy Mayfield, as a federal judge granted him a temporary injunction allowing him to race as early as this weekend.

The ruling, made Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Charlotte by senior Judge Graham Mullen, lifted Mayfield's suspension for failing NASCAR's substance-abuse policy and allows him to return as the driver/owner of his No. 41 team in time for Saturday night's race at Daytona International Speedway.

"The truth came out. That's what it's all about," Mayfield said after the decision was announced.


Concluding the "likelihood of a false positive in this case is quite substantial," Mullen said as he ruled in Mayfield's favor after about two hours of arguments, including NASCAR's contention that Mayfield is a danger to the sport after testing positive for high amounts of a dangerous, illegal drug.

Mullen ruled the "harm to Mr. Mayfield significantly outweighs the harm to NASCAR" in issuing the injunction, which doesn't settle the larger civil suit filed by Mayfield or NASCAR's countersuit.

Mayfield said it may be too late in the week to get his car to Daytona by the 8 a.m. deadline on Thursday. He left open the possibility he may drive for Larry Gunselman, who operates a part-time Sprint Cup team out of Mayfield's garage.

"The main thing is we're able to race again," Mayfield said.

Mayfield was suspended on May 9 after failing a random drug test eight days earlier at Richmond International Raceway. During a recess at Wednesday's hearing, NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said Mayfield tested positive for methamphetamines. Mayfield has denied using the drug, saying a mix of medications led to the positive test.

It was initially reported that NASCAR would not appeal. However, Poston said later Wednesday: "As for appealing the decision, we are still considering our options."

The ruling also restores Mayfield as driver/owner of his own team. Mayfield's wife, Shana, took over as owner of the team while Mayfield was suspended.

Shana Mayfield burst into tears as the judge announced the decision.

"You can't imagine," Jeremy Mayfield said of his emotions upon hearing the judge had ruled in his favor. "It's huge to us, more than any race I've ever won."

In announcing the decision, Mullen said Mayfield may be subject to whatever drug testing NASCAR deems fit. He said that includes taking hair samples to determine "if he's a meth-head or not."

Poston said Mayfield will be tested on a regular basis, beginning with this weekend at Daytona.

"We are disappointed, but we respect the judge's ruling," Poston said. "This is only a temporary injunction. The legal case continues beyond this point, and we will continue to make our case."

Mayfield has maintained from the start that he did not take methamphetamines. He claimed the positive test was the result of combining prescribed Adderall for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and Claritin-D for allergies.

"I have never taken methamphetamines in my life, and when accused of taking them I immediately volunteered to give another urine sample," Mayfield said in an affidavit.

He reiterated those comments on Wednesday, and will continue to fight his case in a lawsuit against NASCAR seeking monetary compensation for the time he missed racing while suspended.

Mayfield said the suspension has cost him sponsorship and forced him to lay off 10 members of his team. He has not attempted to enter the No. 41 team with another driver since the May race at Lowe's Motor Speedway in Charlotte.

Mullen kept his ruling to the temporary injunction, leaving the question of monetary damages to be determined at a later date.

Despite the injunction, the onus remains on Mayfield to create doubt about the test results as he seeks a permanent return to the track and compensation for monetary losses. His attorney, Bill Diehl, said that process could last more than a year.

Diehl said in a 45-minute argument that the evidence was "overwhelming" in favor of his client.

Diehl claimed that NASCAR's drug testing program does not meet federal workplace guidelines or follow proper procedure of SAMHSA [Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration].

He argued that Mayfield did not give permission for the "B" sample to be tested after the "A" sample came back positive, as guidelines state, and that the "B" sample should have been tested at an independent laboratory. He said since proper procedure was not used and because the "B" sample was compromised when opened that the entire test should be thrown out.

Both samples originally were tested by Aegis Laboratory, the Nashville, Tenn.-based facility NASCAR employs to run its testing program.

"They must be held accountable," Diehl said of NASCAR and Aegis. "If you don't follow procedure then drug tests are thrown out."

Diehl also argued that NASCAR's policy is unfair because it does not provide a list of all banned substances, as is the case in most other professional sports.

He referred to the governing body as having almost god-like powers, saying "if they decide to ban Coca-Cola or coffee or orange juice or anything else," they can.

"That just smells bad," Diehl said. "And it stinks enough that the court should say 'You can't do that.' "

Diehl also argued that Mayfield has no prior history of drug abuse and that there was no testimony in the affidavits of those who collected the specimen indicating he showed signs of drug use.

He scoffed at NASCAR's charge that methamphetamines have been in Mayfield's system for some time, noting that Mayfield passed a test before the February opener at Daytona. He said if Mayfield had as much methamphetamine in his system as has been insinuated then "he's either a walking zombie or dead."

NASCAR argued there was indisputable evidence that Mayfield tested positive for methamphetamines. Its attorneys said that both of Mayfield's urine samples recently were sent to a second lab, MedTox Laboratories in St. Paul, Minn., and that the results confirmed the original tests.

Diehl said those samples were compromised because they already were open. He again pointed to procedure.

"If they met their own rules they wouldn't have tested either of them because the seal was broken," he said.

NASCAR argued that it is not a federal entity and does not have to follow federal guidelines. The NFL, the NHL and Major League Baseball also allow the "B" sample to be tested by the same lab as the "A" sample. But Diehl noted those organizations have a collective bargaining agreement that requires the testing policy to be approved by union members, while NASCAR has no such agreement.

NASCAR attorneys argued that Mayfield did not notify Dr. David Black or anybody at Aegis that he was on Adderall or Claritin-D until after the positive test, thus not following prescribed guidelines. They pointed out that the prescription for Adderall came from the "Vitality Anti-Aging Center and Medical Spa" and not Mayfield's primary physician.

Mayfield said the Adderall prescription did come from his personal physician and he has evidence to back that up.

Lawyers for NASCAR said allowing Mayfield back on the track before he is completely cleared by physicians would endanger the lives of other drivers, crew members and fans. They presented affidavits from several drivers, including Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson, saying they did not want to compete with somebody known to have tested positive for a banned substance.

Diehl did not argue that point.

"It's almost a 'duh' statement to say they don't want drivers to use drugs," he said.

NASCAR attorneys also argued that the driver contract does not guarantee the right to compete and that Mayfield is not entitled to compensation. They also noted that Mayfield's team has had opportunities to enter races with another driver, as it did two weeks after the suspension with J.J. Yeley.

"While [Mayfield and his team] have not suffered, and will not suffer, any harm that could not be compensated through a monetary award, reversing the suspension would create a real and serious risk of injury or death to others," NASCAR stated in affidavits.

"If other drivers refuse to race, it will harm the relationships that NASCAR has developed with its drivers, fans, sponsors and broadcasters over the last sixty years."

Mullen disagreed, saying "the court finds the harm to Mr. Mayfield significantly outweighs any harm to NASCAR."

Diehl felt he argued his case well enough to win.

"Independence Day for Jeremy ought to be today," he said. "It is a case involving fairness."

David Newton covers NASCAR for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
Sledneck
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7/1/2009 5:18pm
cdm806 wrote:
He tested positive for three (3) different substances: Adderal, Claritin-D, and meth.
Nerd wrote:
If you have a prescription for a reason, how can it be banned? Does anyone actually know what the policy includes, as far as what drugs...
If you have a prescription for a reason, how can it be banned? Does anyone actually know what the policy includes, as far as what drugs are illegal and tested for?
Bodybuilders have steroids prescribed to them. If they get popped, well, it's still banned.
Nerd
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7/1/2009 5:26pm
Nerd wrote:
Basically, it's the modification of gene expression to improve an aspect of your performance.
Jabjr222 wrote:
How? Genes, DNA, can't be replaced, right? I mean, you can get a bone marrow transplant that would have an effect on blood cells... but unless...
How? Genes, DNA, can't be replaced, right? I mean, you can get a bone marrow transplant that would have an effect on blood cells... but unless you are controlling genetics from the start (conception), I don't see how it is possible...

BUT, the point is Adderral is a banned substance... he tested positive... NASCAR will deal with it.
No, a lot has been learned about genes in recent years. You don't need to replace genes. I said "gene expression". They're learning that genes can be turned on or off in different combinations to give different results.

For example, by eating certain foods, or even taking certain chemicals, you can change the expression of genes you have. You may have a gene in your DNA that has a protein blocking its expression, and by taking a chemical or eating a food containing a chemical, over time (or sometimes immediately) you can remove the inhibitor on the gene, allowing it to be expressed. Or, the other way, if you don't want a gene to be expressed and it is being expressed, you can do the same thing to add something to it that inhibits its expression.

Fat people eating certain foods can turn on or off their gene for being fat, as it turns out. There is even at least one case I read about where a guy had some sort of cancer in his digestive tract that was past the point of being able to be treated by medicine or something, and as an experiment (since he was going to die anyway) they made him eat all kinds of leafy type foods for a few months, eating NOTHING else, and it turned off his gene for that cancer and his cancer went away.
mcphilly
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7/1/2009 6:44pm
Adderall and meth are similar but will show up different on tests. The only test it might fool are the cheap ones you can buy at your pharmacy , but I am sure that nascar has there tests sent to a lab and they will be able to tell exactly what it is very easily.

They both come from the amphetamine family thats about it . They are two different drugs .

I have been taking adderall for a long time and since I have adhd it puts me in the zone and I get a lot of shit done . If someone that doesnt have adhd takes adderall they get super tweaky and dont get shit accomplished .



Shenzi
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7/1/2009 8:16pm
Jabjr222 wrote:
How is it any worse than other PED's? OR is that what you are implying? Meth is one nasty drug though... I'm sure he isn't the...
How is it any worse than other PED's? OR is that what you are implying?

Meth is one nasty drug though... I'm sure he isn't the only one.
you're comparing meth and PED's???? Holy shit.
bullpen58
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7/1/2009 8:33pm
Sure are a lot of "cracker-jack doctors" around these parts. LMAO! Everyone with a keyboard is an "expert" on meth, PEDs, and Adderral. LOL.

One thing none of you doctors have managed to point out yet (as I'm sure you ALL knew this) is that whenever someone takes a drug test they fill out a little disclaimer sheet where they list all the meds they are currently taking. When some doucher doesn't put anything on there, tests positive, and THEN claims they had a prescription afterwards, they are FULL OF SHIT.

Have a good day Doctors.
JP
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7/1/2009 8:53pm
What would make you drive in circles faster Meth or PED's?
drmarkr
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7/1/2009 9:38pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:42am
mcphilly wrote:
Adderall and meth are similar but will show up different on tests. The only test it might fool are the cheap ones you can buy at...
Adderall and meth are similar but will show up different on tests. The only test it might fool are the cheap ones you can buy at your pharmacy , but I am sure that nascar has there tests sent to a lab and they will be able to tell exactly what it is very easily.

They both come from the amphetamine family thats about it . They are two different drugs .

I have been taking adderall for a long time and since I have adhd it puts me in the zone and I get a lot of shit done . If someone that doesnt have adhd takes adderall they get super tweaky and dont get shit accomplished .



Adderal is absolutely clean, laboratory-produced speed. Methamphetamine. Very similar to Ritalin.


It's prescribed in smaller doses to treat "ADHD" and, of course, helps you get more things done. Street speed in equivalent doses would do exactly the same. And your statement that someone without ADHD wouldn't be similarly affected is just plain wrong....pretty much anyone that takes speed (or Adderal, or Ritalin) will have sharper focus and be less likely to be distracted from a task at hand. Larger doses will be just as likely to make you "tweaky" as it would a "non-ADHD" person, assuming you're both acclimated to the drug(s).


Here's my opinion. Adderal and Ritalin should be banned from motorsports, as all other forms of methamphetamine already are (hell, maybe they already are?) ADHD is a nonsense, quasi-diagnosis to begin with, and to use that as an excuse to allow certain competitors to gain an advantage with these drugs is bullshit. You want to use these drugs to treat your "medical condition"?? Fine. Find another line of work. You don't get to race motorsports while using these drugs. Easy enough.


Society decided a few years ago it was ok to create huge numbers of meth addicts (oooh, did I say that??) by drugging our children instead of using time, effort and discipline to control their unwanted behaviors. About the same time they decided anyone with pain has a "right" to whatever narcotic they request. Look around to see the results of this absolutely ridiculous decision.... makes be ashamed of my profession, really.


As for Mayfield's test being positive for both "meth" and Adderal, I'm pretty certain the testing used today can easily differentiate the two. Not that that matters to the judge they found to give him a stay on the suspension. Surprise, surprise.
Jabjr222
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7/1/2009 9:52pm
Shenzi wrote:
you're comparing meth and PED's???? Holy shit.
Alright jackass, you don't think PED's come in forms other than steroids? Holy shit.
Jabjr222
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7/1/2009 9:56pm
Nerd wrote:
No, a lot has been learned about genes in recent years. You don't need to replace genes. I said "gene expression". They're learning that genes can...
No, a lot has been learned about genes in recent years. You don't need to replace genes. I said "gene expression". They're learning that genes can be turned on or off in different combinations to give different results.

For example, by eating certain foods, or even taking certain chemicals, you can change the expression of genes you have. You may have a gene in your DNA that has a protein blocking its expression, and by taking a chemical or eating a food containing a chemical, over time (or sometimes immediately) you can remove the inhibitor on the gene, allowing it to be expressed. Or, the other way, if you don't want a gene to be expressed and it is being expressed, you can do the same thing to add something to it that inhibits its expression.

Fat people eating certain foods can turn on or off their gene for being fat, as it turns out. There is even at least one case I read about where a guy had some sort of cancer in his digestive tract that was past the point of being able to be treated by medicine or something, and as an experiment (since he was going to die anyway) they made him eat all kinds of leafy type foods for a few months, eating NOTHING else, and it turned off his gene for that cancer and his cancer went away.
Hmmm... I don't know about that...

Dr. Mark, could you comment?
JB 19
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7/1/2009 10:09pm
Interesting. I work with a guy about 60 years old with 40 years senority at the shop that tested positive for opium. He said it was crazy cause he never did any drugs and didn't even know what opium was.

Long story short, he went straight to the hospital to have a blood test done, and he had no opium in his system, but rather Tylenol PM, which in some drug tests can show up as opium.

He didn't get fired. lol
drmarkr
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7/1/2009 10:16pm
There is some interesting work in this area. We are likely to find a number of genes with the ability to variably express themselves based on diet/other environmental factors. All very early in the process of scientific research at this point. It will raise even more ethical issues in the realm of PED's when it gets here though.

Methamphetamines are really the gold standard of PED's when you're talking about the actual competition itself. Steroids? All about the training phase....

But when it's time to compete, there's really nothing to compare to speed. Unless, maybe, you're talking about shooting in the biathlon where a steady hand is your biggest advantage.
bullpen58
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7/1/2009 10:52pm
drmarkr wrote:
Adderal is absolutely clean, laboratory-produced speed. Methamphetamine. Very similar to Ritalin. It's prescribed in smaller doses to treat "ADHD" and, of course, helps you get more...
Adderal is absolutely clean, laboratory-produced speed. Methamphetamine. Very similar to Ritalin.


It's prescribed in smaller doses to treat "ADHD" and, of course, helps you get more things done. Street speed in equivalent doses would do exactly the same. And your statement that someone without ADHD wouldn't be similarly affected is just plain wrong....pretty much anyone that takes speed (or Adderal, or Ritalin) will have sharper focus and be less likely to be distracted from a task at hand. Larger doses will be just as likely to make you "tweaky" as it would a "non-ADHD" person, assuming you're both acclimated to the drug(s).


Here's my opinion. Adderal and Ritalin should be banned from motorsports, as all other forms of methamphetamine already are (hell, maybe they already are?) ADHD is a nonsense, quasi-diagnosis to begin with, and to use that as an excuse to allow certain competitors to gain an advantage with these drugs is bullshit. You want to use these drugs to treat your "medical condition"?? Fine. Find another line of work. You don't get to race motorsports while using these drugs. Easy enough.


Society decided a few years ago it was ok to create huge numbers of meth addicts (oooh, did I say that??) by drugging our children instead of using time, effort and discipline to control their unwanted behaviors. About the same time they decided anyone with pain has a "right" to whatever narcotic they request. Look around to see the results of this absolutely ridiculous decision.... makes be ashamed of my profession, really.


As for Mayfield's test being positive for both "meth" and Adderal, I'm pretty certain the testing used today can easily differentiate the two. Not that that matters to the judge they found to give him a stay on the suspension. Surprise, surprise.
Nice try "doctor". Your attempts to sound knowledgable amongst all the REAL doctors on this mx forum is hilarious. You aren't fooling any of us.
















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zookrider62!
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7/2/2009 6:39am
mcphilly wrote:
Adderall and meth are similar but will show up different on tests. The only test it might fool are the cheap ones you can buy at...
Adderall and meth are similar but will show up different on tests. The only test it might fool are the cheap ones you can buy at your pharmacy , but I am sure that nascar has there tests sent to a lab and they will be able to tell exactly what it is very easily.

They both come from the amphetamine family thats about it . They are two different drugs .

I have been taking adderall for a long time and since I have adhd it puts me in the zone and I get a lot of shit done . If someone that doesnt have adhd takes adderall they get super tweaky and dont get shit accomplished .



drmarkr wrote:
Adderal is absolutely clean, laboratory-produced speed. Methamphetamine. Very similar to Ritalin. It's prescribed in smaller doses to treat "ADHD" and, of course, helps you get more...
Adderal is absolutely clean, laboratory-produced speed. Methamphetamine. Very similar to Ritalin.


It's prescribed in smaller doses to treat "ADHD" and, of course, helps you get more things done. Street speed in equivalent doses would do exactly the same. And your statement that someone without ADHD wouldn't be similarly affected is just plain wrong....pretty much anyone that takes speed (or Adderal, or Ritalin) will have sharper focus and be less likely to be distracted from a task at hand. Larger doses will be just as likely to make you "tweaky" as it would a "non-ADHD" person, assuming you're both acclimated to the drug(s).


Here's my opinion. Adderal and Ritalin should be banned from motorsports, as all other forms of methamphetamine already are (hell, maybe they already are?) ADHD is a nonsense, quasi-diagnosis to begin with, and to use that as an excuse to allow certain competitors to gain an advantage with these drugs is bullshit. You want to use these drugs to treat your "medical condition"?? Fine. Find another line of work. You don't get to race motorsports while using these drugs. Easy enough.


Society decided a few years ago it was ok to create huge numbers of meth addicts (oooh, did I say that??) by drugging our children instead of using time, effort and discipline to control their unwanted behaviors. About the same time they decided anyone with pain has a "right" to whatever narcotic they request. Look around to see the results of this absolutely ridiculous decision.... makes be ashamed of my profession, really.


As for Mayfield's test being positive for both "meth" and Adderal, I'm pretty certain the testing used today can easily differentiate the two. Not that that matters to the judge they found to give him a stay on the suspension. Surprise, surprise.
I dont agree with prescribing ritalin or adderall, but my question is, how would it help in motorsports? I thought the whole point of it was to focus, and while it is necessary to focus in any sport, I dont see the edge it would give someone.
zookrider62!
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7/2/2009 6:40am
flarider wrote:
Fuckin' CVS and their goddamn prescription bullshit to get adderall but oh yeah I can buy all the fuckin claritin-d I want but can't have the...
Fuckin' CVS and their goddamn prescription bullshit to get adderall but oh yeah I can buy all the fuckin claritin-d I want but can't have the fuckin adderall sonofabitches at CVS need to go firebomb the damn place...bastages
Maybe a sedative instead of adderall?
mxdad
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7/2/2009 8:18am
Ok lets make this a little moto related. Does James Stewart use Meth? Watching the start at Daytona kind of makes you wonder.

Just kidding. Please put this shit thread in non moto already.
J.Saunders144
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7/2/2009 9:25am
I personally would not ride while on adderol, it helps my ADD but last time i took it and rode I had a hell of a time overshooting things, missing little things in corners, just had a complete shit day of riding quit after about 30-45min, now if it was just an off day I dont know because my bikes had tight valves for 2 months now Sad
Nerd
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7/2/2009 9:31am
drmarkr wrote:
There is some interesting work in this area. We are likely to find a number of genes with the ability to variably express themselves based on...
There is some interesting work in this area. We are likely to find a number of genes with the ability to variably express themselves based on diet/other environmental factors. All very early in the process of scientific research at this point. It will raise even more ethical issues in the realm of PED's when it gets here though.

Methamphetamines are really the gold standard of PED's when you're talking about the actual competition itself. Steroids? All about the training phase....

But when it's time to compete, there's really nothing to compare to speed. Unless, maybe, you're talking about shooting in the biathlon where a steady hand is your biggest advantage.
You won't be able to test for someone manipulating their gene expression. And what if there was a surgery to strengthen a joint, for example? Maybe it would be beneficial to gymnasts. Should that be illegal?

And Doc, while I obviously respect your doctorness, I also thought ADD was a BS diagnosis for a long time...



Until I was diagnosed with it, and it was medicated. The medication I was put on was not a stimulant, and it changed my life. So although I understand your point of view, having shared it myself until about six months ago, I know for a fact that ADD/ADHD is for real.
FreshTopEnd
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7/2/2009 9:44am


Circa 1970. This has been going on a long time.

Given the unfolding knowledge of brain development continuing into young adulthood, I think there are fair distinctions to be made between prescribing psychotropic medications to children as compared to adults.
Jabjr222
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7/2/2009 10:05am
Nerd wrote:
You won't be able to test for someone manipulating their gene expression. And what if there was a surgery to strengthen a joint, for example? Maybe...
You won't be able to test for someone manipulating their gene expression. And what if there was a surgery to strengthen a joint, for example? Maybe it would be beneficial to gymnasts. Should that be illegal?

And Doc, while I obviously respect your doctorness, I also thought ADD was a BS diagnosis for a long time...



Until I was diagnosed with it, and it was medicated. The medication I was put on was not a stimulant, and it changed my life. So although I understand your point of view, having shared it myself until about six months ago, I know for a fact that ADD/ADHD is for real.
What did they put you on? And, if you don't mind, how old are you?

I was lucky. When I was a kid and they started prescribing some of these drugs, I had a teacher that suggested my mom take me to the doc for ADHD. Fortunately, I had a good pediatrician and as he told my mom, I was over active, not hyperactive...

If I had a different doc, who knows. I may still be on the pills. I'm glad I'm not. No way would I let some doc put my daughter on anything. I am sure there are examples of when meds are really truly needed. But I think that too often it is used as a substitute for taking the time to instill discipline.
drmarkr
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7/2/2009 10:06am
[img]http://www.freaknet.org.uk/graphics01/g04/freddy/freddy07.gif[/img] Circa 1970. This has been going on a long time. Given the unfolding knowledge of brain development continuing into young adulthood, I think there are...


Circa 1970. This has been going on a long time.

Given the unfolding knowledge of brain development continuing into young adulthood, I think there are fair distinctions to be made between prescribing psychotropic medications to children as compared to adults.
Not sure I get your point Michael? From my perspective (clinical/developmental) I have serious reservations about prescribing psychoactive agents to the number of children that are getting them... when my 19 y/o was in the 2nd grade, a dingbat teacher told his mother he "needed" ritalin because he was quite figidity in class and made some repetitive finger tapping motions when he had excessive energy to burn. You can imagine the conversation I had with the headmaster when I found out about this.

Do they help kids with "hyperactivity?" Apparently so, at least in the short term. Would these kids be helped with more exercise/energy burn/appropriate discipline?? Those studies haven't been done, so we don't know......wouldn't it be good to know though? Do we know what the long term effects are of the overprescribing of Ritalin/Adderal?? Not yet, and that concerns me greatly.

From my perspective, these agents are MASSIVELY overprescribed.....and often given on the recommendation of grade school teachers?!?! WTF is up with that? Crazy shit.
DirtyFilter75
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7/2/2009 10:07am
todder wrote:
Non Moto like totally non moto.
X 1,000,000,000 this is right up there with soccer!
Jabjr222
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7/2/2009 10:09am
mxdad wrote:
Ok lets make this a little moto related. Does James Stewart use Meth? Watching the start at Daytona kind of makes you wonder. Just kidding. Please...
Ok lets make this a little moto related. Does James Stewart use Meth? Watching the start at Daytona kind of makes you wonder.

Just kidding. Please put this shit thread in non moto already.
What is it with all you "dad"s... stfu and if you don't like the thread, fuck off...

This is one of the few threads that actually has something of value right now...

You don't think it has anything to do with moto? If not, you are a fool...

Nothing to see here...

Post a reply to: Jeremy Mayfield tested + for Meth!

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