You're the designer of Triumph, with a clean sheet of paper. What do you do?

Johnny Depp
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Buda, TX US
Edited Date/Time 1/18/2022 5:01am
Follow the norm? Innovate? Over Innovate?

Stay within the current rule books? Build a future bike and hope for rule changes?

What would you like to see? What would make you buy one?

Go for a budget price? Go for a premium price?
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ab5772
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SLC, UT US
7/23/2021 7:32am
Put dark green plastic on a KTM and call it good.
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pete24
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Marlborough, MA US
7/23/2021 7:43am
say April fools!
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seven10
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OXNARD, CA US
7/23/2021 7:47am
Simple equation
Suzuki frame +Ktm engine= Triumph
Not gunna happen but we can all dream.
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ZOSICK
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7/23/2021 7:51am
If it were me, I'd copy the KTM business model. As far as the bike goes, I'd pretty use a KTM. Steel frame, brakes, clutch, weight, E-start and suspension. Now some would argue the SSS forks but nothing sucks worse than paying 10-11K for a bike and then having to send off your forks for new springs. I'm trying to be partial here but in my opinion, the KTM's (HSQ/Gas Gas ect) offer the best platform. Let's not kid ourselves, a 250, 350 and 450's have plenty of power for 99% of the riders. If you say otherwise, you're in the 1%. But in all reality, you're probably in the 99% and not as fast as you really think you are, just saying lol. As far as price goes, 9-11K seems to be what everyone is paying. Who knows, charge $9,500 OTD and it will sell. That may also cause all the other brand to follow suit.

I have nothing against any other brand, I've owned or ridden them all. The only thing I would change with a KTM 250/350, put the camchain tensioner that the 450 has. Also, give me a damn skid plate and hand guards. I'm paying 10-11K for a bike and then have to buy a skid plate to protect the cases lol. that being said, I get it. Gotta help out the industry. I don't care to change my ECU or any of that crap. I want to get on the bike and ride. Yes, messing with he air in the forks gets old. However, it's nice to change my forks in seconds.
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The Shop

ZOBITO
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7/23/2021 7:51am
Pretty sure it won't be a twin spar alloy frame, more some kind of tubular trellis.
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Press516
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Gilbert, AZ US
Fantasy
7/23/2021 7:54am
I wouldn't be reinventing the wheel... There is a proven geometry window, stay in it. I have been involved in one (albeit much smaller) creative racing production endeavor. The design team criteria was similar to what's been said many times before, analyze the competition and incorporate the best features and function of each in the new design.

That said, once you had the base design, I would be working to make it lighter, thinner, stronger and more reliable than what is out there today. All common design goals and not easy to achieve.
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ZOBITO
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7/23/2021 8:06am
ab5772 wrote:
Put dark green plastic on a KTM and call it good.
Brands are queuing.
Laughing


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7/23/2021 8:07am
Buy Suzuki's off-road motorcycle line and patents, invest in a true update and go from there. That would be the best way to avoid following the path set by Cannondale and BMW. and at least get a decent foothold in the market before shooting for something bigger. From the little I know, Triumphs aren't known for being the value brand, so it'll be very interesting where they try to position themselves in this already competitive market.
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5
7/23/2021 8:07am
300-325 MX two stroke
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swizcore
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Fenton, MI US
7/23/2021 8:10am
Intake-fore/exhaust-aft (Yamaha) engine design in a steel frame = Global domination.
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TogaSet
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Chandler, AZ US
7/23/2021 8:15am
I’d call Ricky and maybe Pingree for pointers.
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ZOBITO
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7/23/2021 8:20am
TriRacer27 wrote:
Buy Suzuki's off-road motorcycle line and patents, invest in a true update and go from there. That would be the best way to avoid following the...
Buy Suzuki's off-road motorcycle line and patents, invest in a true update and go from there. That would be the best way to avoid following the path set by Cannondale and BMW. and at least get a decent foothold in the market before shooting for something bigger. From the little I know, Triumphs aren't known for being the value brand, so it'll be very interesting where they try to position themselves in this already competitive market.
Now that would be one stupid marketing move.
Laughing
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TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
7/23/2021 8:20am
Reynolds Tubing/Chrome plated frame
Dark Green/British Competition Green Shrouds & Side-Panels
Silver Fenders
Euro-sourced hardware where-ever possible and sensible
DO NOT let ANYTHING look like somebody-else's hardware
KYB Spring Suspension (Because we all know WP "Air" ain't right for the minions Grinning )
250/400/450/500+ (No, not a 350 like the Austrians...a 400 sets Triumph a apart)

Models:
Moto
Off-Road Race
Enduro
Street Legal Enduro
An "Adventure" version of the 400 and 500 with Tan/Buckskin seat and optional bags
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Johnny Depp
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Buda, TX US
7/23/2021 8:24am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2021 12:05pm
50 KW (67hp) water cooled electric with auto trans (3-4 gears) with adjustable motor braking and mapping
2 quick change variable position batteries using only 1 at a time (like a reserve) Only need 1 for MX
Left hand rear brake and foot brake with jackshaft mounted rear disc
50 mm spring/air forks with crossover tube and adjustable ride height
Side mounted spring/air shock, no linkage with adjustable shock mounting and shock length
Flex bars with rubber mounted adjustable height
Steel frame with adjustable steering head and steering dampener

Why build/invest in an ICE powertrain that would be obsolete in 5 years?



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gt80rider
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Boulder, CO US
7/23/2021 8:24am
Talking to a friend a bit about this last night... a triumph MX bike needs to Look Awesome... it needs to look a bit different... chrome swingarm, etc, something to make it stand out.... it needs to look the opposite of the cannondale... LOL
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kb228
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Mansfield, OH US
7/23/2021 8:30am
All you can do is shoot to be within 10% of the top models out now and learn as you go. These big companies have a ton of tools to reverse engineer and copy each other and then make tweaks. They know what frame flex properties to shoot for and what intake angles and what not to copy from everyone else.

You cant innovate when you are new to the game. A good example is if you look at teslas production numbers vs ford. Ford has been doing it for over 100 years and has it down to a science and tesla is still playing catch up.
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Alan Dove
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GB
7/23/2021 8:38am
50 KW (67hp) water cooled electric with auto trans (3-4 gears) with adjustable motor braking and mapping 2 quick change variable position batteries using only 1...
50 KW (67hp) water cooled electric with auto trans (3-4 gears) with adjustable motor braking and mapping
2 quick change variable position batteries using only 1 at a time (like a reserve) Only need 1 for MX
Left hand rear brake and foot brake with jackshaft mounted rear disc
50 mm spring/air forks with crossover tube and adjustable ride height
Side mounted spring/air shock, no linkage with adjustable shock mounting and shock length
Flex bars with rubber mounted adjustable height
Steel frame with adjustable steering head and steering dampener

Why build/invest in an ICE powertrain that would be obsolete in 5 years?



because that's what is raced across the entire world and makes up the overwhelming majority of dirtbike sales. Yam just bought out a new YZ250.
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Johnny Depp
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Buda, TX US
7/23/2021 8:42am
50 KW (67hp) water cooled electric with auto trans (3-4 gears) with adjustable motor braking and mapping 2 quick change variable position batteries using only 1...
50 KW (67hp) water cooled electric with auto trans (3-4 gears) with adjustable motor braking and mapping
2 quick change variable position batteries using only 1 at a time (like a reserve) Only need 1 for MX
Left hand rear brake and foot brake with jackshaft mounted rear disc
50 mm spring/air forks with crossover tube and adjustable ride height
Side mounted spring/air shock, no linkage with adjustable shock mounting and shock length
Flex bars with rubber mounted adjustable height
Steel frame with adjustable steering head and steering dampener

Why build/invest in an ICE powertrain that would be obsolete in 5 years?



Alan Dove wrote:
because that's what is raced across the entire world and makes up the overwhelming majority of dirtbike sales. Yam just bought out a new YZ250.
There's no right or wrong on a forum. Don't box your ideas in by what we have now.
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Last Braaap
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Somewhere over the rainbow CZ
7/23/2021 8:43am
Air suspension
Dualdisk front brake
Spokeskins from the factory
Seathump
Grip guards
Dual pipe exhaust
The smallest numberplates imaginable
Carbon subframe

What other red flags do you come up with?
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7/23/2021 8:45am
Oh and bring back the boost bottle!
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spimx
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Port Isabel, TX US
7/23/2021 8:46am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2021 8:51am
Make a 300lbs off road pig with taiwanese parts and sell it to old timers who only care for the nostalgia of the name.

Dual exhaust and real crazy looking fenders.
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mxtech1
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Galesburg, IL US
7/23/2021 8:47am
Steel tubular frames because they are easier to produce and faster to iterate on (eliminates complex tooling/processes needed for extruded aluminum frame components). Frame geometry starting point would be similar to competitor products.

Adapt the motor technology from what has been learned in MotoGP. Focus on a 250F and a 350F.

Source as many components as possible from Tier 1 suppliers (braking system, bars, exhaust, wheels, levers, etc.)

WP spring suspension

Get JGR involved in the development process very early so that are ready to go racing in 2022 Nationals

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theToothPerry
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Location
Santa Clarita, CA US
7/23/2021 8:51am
So its my first time as motorcycle designer go easy on me but I was thinking something like this



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mxtech1
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1968
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Location
Galesburg, IL US
7/23/2021 8:52am
50 KW (67hp) water cooled electric with auto trans (3-4 gears) with adjustable motor braking and mapping 2 quick change variable position batteries using only 1...
50 KW (67hp) water cooled electric with auto trans (3-4 gears) with adjustable motor braking and mapping
2 quick change variable position batteries using only 1 at a time (like a reserve) Only need 1 for MX
Left hand rear brake and foot brake with jackshaft mounted rear disc
50 mm spring/air forks with crossover tube and adjustable ride height
Side mounted spring/air shock, no linkage with adjustable shock mounting and shock length
Flex bars with rubber mounted adjustable height
Steel frame with adjustable steering head and steering dampener

Why build/invest in an ICE powertrain that would be obsolete in 5 years?



I think you might be on to something here. I was thinking about this last night.

Realistically, it's going to take them several years to develop a good chassis package and refine an ICE. I'm about 50/50 whether they are going to start with an ICE bike or e-drive bike.

Think about it....

There's limited marketspace available for another ICE bike. We all know e-drive bikes are coming. If Triumph starts with e-drive development from day 1, there's a very real chance that they could be one of the first to the game with a competitive e-drive bike 2 to 3 years from now. KTM is pushing VERY hard for e-drive technology development (across all platforms) and we know Honda is tinkering around with an e-drive MX model.

Alta already demonstrated there is a market for e-drive bikes and consumers who will purchase them for $10k+. Why not be one of the first to the game with e-drive and be a market leader rather than playing catch up with ICE??

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7/23/2021 8:52am
I'd be looking at a market-based approach.

Build an engine that can be used in different states of tune across multiple lines, street and dirt. Chassis dimensions similar to current successful design, but that you can pull off with your facilities/suppliers. Commodity components, build in Thailand/India allow pricing at multiple points through upgrades of components on dealer floor.

Build around a more flexible market model than competition. Base comes barebones: cheaper wheels, tires, steel bars, open chamber forks all standard but carefully set up, and priced lower than Japan. Add dealer options for special editions, stainless pipe, kit suspension, fat bars etc.
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Falcon
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Menifee, CA US
7/23/2021 8:57am
I would put lots of my R&D money into a fantastic bottom end, with an interchangeable, plug and play top end. It would be able to handle 450cc, 500cc, and 600 or 625cc 4-stroke top ends and would be the basis for MX, Dual Sport, and ATV models. The bottom would have a cartridge-style gearbox that could be easily adapted to different gear ratios for all those different applications (all 5-speed).

As for the MX model, I'd make a two-piece subframe out of aluminum. It would run from the rear fender to the steering stem, and you would be able to remove the rear fender, sideplates, seat and fuel tank in one fell swoop. The frame itself would be steel and use the engine as a stressed member. That part would run from the footpegs to the steering stem, with enough strength to handle all the stresses. The only spars running from the footpegs to the subframe would be narrow enough to allow a very straight airboot and a center-mounted shock. The frame would be shaped in such a way as to accept an electric motor as well.
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Deadric
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Walden, CO US
7/23/2021 8:59am
So its my first time as motorcycle designer go easy on me but I was thinking something like this [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/23/502731/s1200_unnamed.jpg[/img]
So its my first time as motorcycle designer go easy on me but I was thinking something like this



I'm digging the idea of the wheels not needing anything to connect them to the rest of the bike. Thats going to be a game changer in the weight saving department and the ride should be really smooth also.
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theToothPerry
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Santa Clarita, CA US
7/23/2021 9:01am
So its my first time as motorcycle designer go easy on me but I was thinking something like this [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/23/502731/s1200_unnamed.jpg[/img]
So its my first time as motorcycle designer go easy on me but I was thinking something like this



Deadric wrote:
I'm digging the idea of the wheels not needing anything to connect them to the rest of the bike. Thats going to be a game changer...
I'm digging the idea of the wheels not needing anything to connect them to the rest of the bike. Thats going to be a game changer in the weight saving department and the ride should be really smooth also.
I was thinking it might lower the CG, combined with the front of the motor lower than the axles, the front end feel should be good.
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sandhills
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Scotts Valley, CA US
7/23/2021 9:04am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2021 9:05am
Not put WP Suspension on it.
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7/23/2021 9:07am
I would focus on finding a niche market. For motocorss, I would make a 250f, 350,380 or 400F, and 450F. I would either make an extremely top shelf product or an entry level price point project.
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