Moto crowd control has ruined the party

Johnny Depp
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Edited Date/Time 6/26/2021 3:23pm
I'll never forget showing up at Rio Bravo and finding chain link fences all around the track. It has been a slow disease since then. The good old days involved waving a towel on the track's edge for your favorite rider's.

I bring this up because we held 2 events over the last few weekends at Spoaks Motopark that couldn't have been more different.
Torcs race has 5 times more turnout, and the crowd had 5 times more fun. There were UTV's and pit bikes everywhere, and no fences. Dozens of fans under the trees with coolers full of beer and music blasting up close to the action. It was a party in the full sun, someplace you wanted to be.

EMX race yesterday, everyone behind the fence (except during mini bike races when parents are allowed to chase kids all over the place) and I had to help enforce keeping perfectly safe well behaved fans and UTV's out of the infield. Way way less riders. No party scene at all and way less fun being had.

Everyone will point to insurance, but that was not an issue. Something elemental is missing from MX, on practice days it's different and people seem to roam freely. Something to consider at least for local racing.
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MX Culture
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6/21/2021 2:20pm
Liability
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LungButter
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6/21/2021 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 2:28pm
MX Culture wrote:
Liability
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely?

If I'm not mistaken that is the point the OP is trying to make.
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GrapeApe
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6/21/2021 2:26pm
The EMX race looks like it had roughly 125 entries . . . spread across 38 classes. That's why TORCS and off-road in general out-draws MX these days.
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The Shop

Deadric
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6/21/2021 2:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 2:29pm
MX Culture wrote:
Liability
Exactly. OP said it himself and it looks like he completely missed it. People loaded with booze being able to freely wander a track has disaster written all over it. Or someone's kid getting out there. Blame the track owners all you want but I'd bet if an incident like that happened and they didnt take steps to prevent it the track would lose its insurance pretty quick and then nobody would have any fun at all.
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6/21/2021 2:28pm
God bless Washougal motocross park and the Huffman family for keeping the love of motocross alive and well in the northwest.

The empty infields at other rounds on tv look so boring

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Johnny Depp
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6/21/2021 2:32pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 2:41pm
MX Culture wrote:
Liability
LungButter wrote:
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely? If I'm...
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely?

If I'm not mistaken that is the point the OP is trying to make.
Yes
Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7 miles. Truth of the matter is a lot of tracks are foregoing insurance requirements and operating on a waiver system.
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TooTallJason
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6/21/2021 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 2:40pm
Infield at Thunder Valley was wide open.

And I'd argue that standing in the woods near a off-road race is many times safer than standing on the edge of a mx track during a race. Fences give the illusion of safety in case a bike goes cartwheeling into the crowds. Being able to move behind a tree gives actual safety. Average speed of the crashes are probably lower as well.

Looking at your photos, it's not quite what I had imagined. In your instance I can't say I know the answer.
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6/21/2021 2:39pm
GrapeApe wrote:
The EMX race looks like it had roughly 125 entries . . . spread across 38 classes. That's why TORCS and off-road in general out-draws MX...
The EMX race looks like it had roughly 125 entries . . . spread across 38 classes. That's why TORCS and off-road in general out-draws MX these days.
I think offroad out draws MX because of value.

I love MX. But I hate 4 lap sprint races.

I raced WORCS Havasu for my first ever offroad event. I got 6 hours of track time over 3 days. More fun that weekend then ANY motorsport I’ve ever done in my life.

That weekend cost me no more than a MX weekend. Simple bang for my buck. Offroad is a better product for the consumer.

MX needs less classes & long motos imo. Look at the local GP events? MX track host, yet huge entries. The consumer is speaking with their wallets, MX event organizers aren’t listening.
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Johnny Ringo
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6/21/2021 2:53pm
Washougal got sued because a bike hit a guy watering the track. Thank the insurance companies for the fencing
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6/21/2021 3:08pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 5:23pm
Infield at Thunder Valley was wide open. And I'd argue that standing in the woods near a off-road race is many times safer than standing on...
Infield at Thunder Valley was wide open.

And I'd argue that standing in the woods near a off-road race is many times safer than standing on the edge of a mx track during a race. Fences give the illusion of safety in case a bike goes cartwheeling into the crowds. Being able to move behind a tree gives actual safety. Average speed of the crashes are probably lower as well.

Looking at your photos, it's not quite what I had imagined. In your instance I can't say I know the answer.
The public areas of the infield are fenced at Thunder Valley. I spent 2 weeks putting them in.
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Retablo
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6/21/2021 4:49pm
“ Truth of the matter is a lot of tracks are foregoing insurance requirements and operating on a waiver system.”

A total off the cuff remark. Think again.
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Yeti831
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6/21/2021 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 5:06pm
MX Culture wrote:
Liability
LungButter wrote:
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely? If I'm...
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely?

If I'm not mistaken that is the point the OP is trying to make.
Because one is an insured private property hired to hold and contain an event while off-road races tend to get permits to hold a designated course over open land. Generally public land at that.
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RichieW13
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6/21/2021 5:09pm
Yeti831 wrote:
Because one is an insured private property hired to hold and contain an event while off-road races tend to get permits to hold a designated course...
Because one is an insured private property hired to hold and contain an event while off-road races tend to get permits to hold a designated course over open land. Generally public land at that.
And BLM events require promoters to keep spectators away from the course in spectator areas.
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bents
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Fantasy
6/21/2021 5:20pm
MX Culture wrote:
Liability
LungButter wrote:
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely? If I'm...
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely?

If I'm not mistaken that is the point the OP is trying to make.
Yes Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7...
Yes
Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7 miles. Truth of the matter is a lot of tracks are foregoing insurance requirements and operating on a waiver system.
Go on....I'm legitimately curious.
dkurtd
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6/21/2021 5:26pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 5:27pm
Retablo wrote:
“ Truth of the matter is a lot of tracks are foregoing insurance requirements and operating on a waiver system.” A total off the cuff remark...
“ Truth of the matter is a lot of tracks are foregoing insurance requirements and operating on a waiver system.”

A total off the cuff remark. Think again.
They may be buying insurance in NY, but I would tell you I know of many tracks that are rolling the dice and foregoing buying insurance hoping a waiver protects them.

So I'm sure it wasn't an off the cuff remark.
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RichieW13
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6/21/2021 5:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 5:28pm
dkurtd wrote:
They may be buying insurance in NY, but I would tell you I know of many tracks that are rolling the dice and foregoing buying insurance...
They may be buying insurance in NY, but I would tell you I know of many tracks that are rolling the dice and foregoing buying insurance hoping a waiver protects them.

So I'm sure it wasn't an off the cuff remark.
That seems like a risky proposition. Maybe the waiver will prevent you from having to pay out damages. But most likely that would only work if you hire a lawyer to help defend you, and that would probably be costly in itself.
6/21/2021 5:36pm
RichieW13 wrote:
That seems like a risky proposition. Maybe the waiver will prevent you from having to pay out damages. But most likely that would only work if...
That seems like a risky proposition. Maybe the waiver will prevent you from having to pay out damages. But most likely that would only work if you hire a lawyer to help defend you, and that would probably be costly in itself.
Enough layers of LLC’s and shell ownership is one way to avoid liability. And way cheaper than a civil suit.

I can understand why tracks would skip the insurance. Those bastards will spend whatever it takes to avoid paying out on a claim. So at some point track operatirs start asking, what’s the point? I cant say I blame them.

When you’re looking at challenging a waiver by suing a LLC that has no assets other than the management rights to a track, it’s a very risky bet for the probono ambulance chaser and a very expensive gamble for the injured party to sue out of pocket.

Deterence is the best way to avoid liability in my experience. Make it really expensive to sue and you’ll never see a day in civil court as a defendant. I trust that formula way more than any insurance protection.
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GrapeApe
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6/21/2021 5:51pm
RichieW13 wrote:
That seems like a risky proposition. Maybe the waiver will prevent you from having to pay out damages. But most likely that would only work if...
That seems like a risky proposition. Maybe the waiver will prevent you from having to pay out damages. But most likely that would only work if you hire a lawyer to help defend you, and that would probably be costly in itself.
Enough layers of LLC’s and shell ownership is one way to avoid liability. And way cheaper than a civil suit. I can understand why tracks would...
Enough layers of LLC’s and shell ownership is one way to avoid liability. And way cheaper than a civil suit.

I can understand why tracks would skip the insurance. Those bastards will spend whatever it takes to avoid paying out on a claim. So at some point track operatirs start asking, what’s the point? I cant say I blame them.

When you’re looking at challenging a waiver by suing a LLC that has no assets other than the management rights to a track, it’s a very risky bet for the probono ambulance chaser and a very expensive gamble for the injured party to sue out of pocket.

Deterence is the best way to avoid liability in my experience. Make it really expensive to sue and you’ll never see a day in civil court as a defendant. I trust that formula way more than any insurance protection.
Majority of the time it's not the individuals suing, it is the insurance company with a subrogation claim. They're not deterred by a LLC shell game.
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6/21/2021 5:57pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 5:58pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Majority of the time it's not the individuals suing, it is the insurance company with a subrogation claim. They're not deterred by a LLC shell game.
Good point. But since when does a personal rider’s health insurance have to cover someone riding motocross? Dont most health insurance plans have contingencies against paying for the medical costs of these sorts of high risk activities? Every time Ive known someone using insurance to pay for their medical bill, they lie about how they got hurt if it involves MX.

The insurance companies are not gonna chase something they’re not responsible for.
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Nairb#70
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6/21/2021 6:03pm
I'll never forget the time at the Southwick Natl. (07,08) ish, Vince Frieze (rookie year) swapped so hard that he was catapulted over a full height chain link fence (bike stayed on the track) and landed on the girl standing next to me, she was knocked out and he was pretty banged up too. Medics were obviiously on the track (other side of the fence) and the people in need of care were in the crowd (which suddenly got pretty big). The situation didn't look so good. Essentially, I had to climb the fence to get the flaggers attention so he could notify the medics. It was a chaotic scene and keep in mind there was a national moto going on all around us. Everything ended up OK and the next year I ran into the same girl at the natl. and she was wearing a Vince Freize jersey. Guess she made a new friend that day. I gotta say I'm in favor of fences at MX tracks. My favorite kind is the red painted wooden snow fence from the old days.
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TeamGreen
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6/21/2021 6:14pm
Nairb#70 wrote:
I'll never forget the time at the Southwick Natl. (07,08) ish, Vince Frieze (rookie year) swapped so hard that he was catapulted over a full height...
I'll never forget the time at the Southwick Natl. (07,08) ish, Vince Frieze (rookie year) swapped so hard that he was catapulted over a full height chain link fence (bike stayed on the track) and landed on the girl standing next to me, she was knocked out and he was pretty banged up too. Medics were obviiously on the track (other side of the fence) and the people in need of care were in the crowd (which suddenly got pretty big). The situation didn't look so good. Essentially, I had to climb the fence to get the flaggers attention so he could notify the medics. It was a chaotic scene and keep in mind there was a national moto going on all around us. Everything ended up OK and the next year I ran into the same girl at the natl. and she was wearing a Vince Freize jersey. Guess she made a new friend that day. I gotta say I'm in favor of fences at MX tracks. My favorite kind is the red painted wooden snow fence from the old days.
Best Story of the Day.

That woman is a true moto-fan.
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Johnny Ringo
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6/21/2021 6:18pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 6:19pm
Another shoug one: 2003 Stew scrubbed the step up before horsepower hill too hard, pulled a canard. Bike went flying into the crowd and took a guy down hard. Few hours later I saw the guy on crutches wearing a freshly autographed Zebra Pink stew jersey. Same deal as the Friese story above
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Nairb#70
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6/21/2021 6:26pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Best Story of the Day.

That woman is a true moto-fan.
Yup, fer sure, and I gained instant respect for Vince, her and her son had lots of swag and hook up that day.
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motomike137
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6/21/2021 6:29pm
Not outdoors but one time waaaaay back in the day at the Pontiac Silverdome a dude cartwheels into the railing and ends up in a front row seat not 20 ft away from us lol! His bike stayed out of the seats thankfully. Now we have the first 20-30 rows tarped off in most stadiums.
SCC
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6/21/2021 6:56pm
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do I bring a family of 5 and stand in the sun for 9hrs? Hope DC jumps in with an answer.
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Mossy940
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6/21/2021 7:00pm
I’ve shared this story before but I will again -

2004(ish) JG33 and Justin Keeney we’re going at it at Glen Helen, when an older woman did not anticipate the speed those boys were going and walked out into the middle of the track just before the tunnel jump….
The boys were alright; but the woman lost her leg if I am remembering the story right.
That is the reason there are fences in the infield at GH now.

I’m with you, 100%…….I hate what tracks have become in terms of rules, but I always looked at the fences to keep little little kids/unaware spectators from getting killed, not to keep guys like you and I out.
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soggy
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6/21/2021 7:02pm
Yes Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7...
Yes
Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7 miles. Truth of the matter is a lot of tracks are foregoing insurance requirements and operating on a waiver system.
Those waivers don’t mean shit
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6/21/2021 7:19pm
SCC wrote:
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do...
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do I bring a family of 5 and stand in the sun for 9hrs? Hope DC jumps in with an answer.
Is that even legal?

They cant even do that at NFL stadiums. Or at least, they didnt used to ban water.
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