2022 bike rumors

Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 4/14/2021 12:42pm
4/14/2021 12:42pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next...
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next bike.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Yes, how dare they not make a model that will sell 100 units a year
RMT wrote:
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same...
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same time period for comparison. If you add in the white and red versions, its only another 500 units in the past 12 months.

At the end of the day this is a business and nobody is looking at building a bike that currently sells 1300 units a year. Its a great bike and is perfect for the non-skinny vet guys, but until they have a class for 350's only, you're probably not going to see a major investment from any other OEM. They are like the 150cc two strokes (483 sold last year), great bikes and Vets love them but with no real racing class they don't sell many.

And to respond to the blue pig statement, America must be one big blue pig loving country because the YZ250F and YZ450F outsell every other bike in their category.
I don’t know why Yamaha would want to cannibalize their 450/250 sales
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 4/14/2021 12:43pm
4/14/2021 12:43pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Also, when you have a 250f as powerful as Yamaha, why do you need a 350



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Black Diesel Bomber 4/14/2021 12:52pm
4/14/2021 12:52pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next...
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next bike.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Yes, how dare they not make a model that will sell 100 units a year
RMT wrote:
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same...
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same time period for comparison. If you add in the white and red versions, its only another 500 units in the past 12 months.

At the end of the day this is a business and nobody is looking at building a bike that currently sells 1300 units a year. Its a great bike and is perfect for the non-skinny vet guys, but until they have a class for 350's only, you're probably not going to see a major investment from any other OEM. They are like the 150cc two strokes (483 sold last year), great bikes and Vets love them but with no real racing class they don't sell many.

And to respond to the blue pig statement, America must be one big blue pig loving country because the YZ250F and YZ450F outsell every other bike in their category.
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig.

Where are you getting your numbers?? Not saying you are wrong but what is the source of your numbers above? Are you a dealer?

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soggy
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soggy 4/14/2021 12:54pm
4/14/2021 12:54pm
RMT wrote:
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same...
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same time period for comparison. If you add in the white and red versions, its only another 500 units in the past 12 months.

At the end of the day this is a business and nobody is looking at building a bike that currently sells 1300 units a year. Its a great bike and is perfect for the non-skinny vet guys, but until they have a class for 350's only, you're probably not going to see a major investment from any other OEM. They are like the 150cc two strokes (483 sold last year), great bikes and Vets love them but with no real racing class they don't sell many.

And to respond to the blue pig statement, America must be one big blue pig loving country because the YZ250F and YZ450F outsell every other bike in their category.
What if you include the xcf and xcfw 350 as well? I thought I had heard the 350 motor was ktm groups most popular
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Brent
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Brent 4/14/2021 12:56pm
4/14/2021 12:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2021 1:13pm
The new 2022 KTM's will be in dealer showrooms in May-June 2021, they will have small changes to the WP suspension as well as mapping changes.

The new KTM platform will debut as the 2022.5 KTM factory Edition and the Husqvarna FE, The rockstar thing is probably going away.

The new motor has a more compact unified bottom end, which means all the CC sizes 250-350-450 will use the same transmission cases with different gear ratios. The frame is slightly different. From what I was told they are still finalizing the design of the plastics, the new chassis has and is currently being tested around So Cal with the 2021 plastic.

No air shock for the foreseeable future because they are still working on reliability. WP Air fork will still be on the new bike with a second gen mid valve.

All of this could change as the new bike is still 6 months from production.

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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 4/14/2021 12:57pm
4/14/2021 12:57pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Also, when you have a 250f as powerful as Yamaha, why do you need a 350
Motofinne wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/04/14/487747/s1200_sxf.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/04/14/487748/s1200_yz.jpg[/img]



Have you ridden both? It’s obvious which engine is stronger on the track
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soggy
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soggy 4/14/2021 12:57pm
4/14/2021 12:57pm
On the topic of the thread I don’t think we’ll see much change from anyone for 22. 2023 could have new bikes from Kawi, Yamaha, ktm, Honda (250) and if lightning strikes maybe Suzuki. We should also have a beta Mx 450 by then as well I think
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Richard Tease II 4/14/2021 12:59pm
4/14/2021 12:59pm
Brent wrote:
The new 2022 KTM's will be in dealer showrooms in May-June 2021, they will have small changes to the WP suspension as well as mapping changes...
The new 2022 KTM's will be in dealer showrooms in May-June 2021, they will have small changes to the WP suspension as well as mapping changes.

The new KTM platform will debut as the 2022.5 KTM factory Edition and the Husqvarna FE, The rockstar thing is probably going away.

The new motor has a more compact unified bottom end, which means all the CC sizes 250-350-450 will use the same transmission cases with different gear ratios. The frame is slightly different. From what I was told they are still finalizing the design of the plastics, the new chassis has and is currently being tested around So Cal with the 2021 plastic.

No air shock for the foreseeable future because they are still working on reliability. WP Air fork will still be on the new bike with a second gen mid valve.

All of this could change as the new bike is still 6 months from production.

2-Stroke line?
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RMT
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RMT 4/14/2021 12:59pm
4/14/2021 12:59pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig. Where are you getting your numbers?? Not...
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig.

Where are you getting your numbers?? Not saying you are wrong but what is the source of your numbers above? Are you a dealer?

Ask Kurt Nicol. LOL

Not a dealer and the numbers come from the Motorcycle Industry Council.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 4/14/2021 1:03pm
4/14/2021 1:03pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Have you ridden both? It’s obvious which engine is stronger on the track
Both on multiple tracks.
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sesker15
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sesker15 4/14/2021 1:09pm
4/14/2021 1:09pm
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MBR
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MBR 4/14/2021 1:21pm
4/14/2021 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2021 1:22pm
soggy wrote:
On the topic of the thread I don’t think we’ll see much change from anyone for 22. 2023 could have new bikes from Kawi, Yamaha, ktm...
On the topic of the thread I don’t think we’ll see much change from anyone for 22. 2023 could have new bikes from Kawi, Yamaha, ktm, Honda (250) and if lightning strikes maybe Suzuki. We should also have a beta Mx 450 by then as well I think
Honda CRF250R will be new already 2022.
RMT
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RMT 4/14/2021 1:22pm
4/14/2021 1:22pm
soggy wrote:
What if you include the xcf and xcfw 350 as well? I thought I had heard the 350 motor was ktm groups most popular
I thought this was a moto forum? LOL.

Add in another 1400 units for the XC-F (no XC-FW listed but sometimes they group similar bikes together) which further cements my point. Trail guys don't need a class to race, they just ride. The 350 is perfect in this instance (trail riders) but less than 3000 units is not enough volume to raise serious consideration.




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PTshox
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PTshox 4/14/2021 1:26pm
4/14/2021 1:26pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next...
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next bike.
If they make a 350FX it will sell... sell lots. The 250FX is a very good bike. I have a KTM 350 XCF too... the 250FX (2020) handles better. A 350 FX would be perfect. Please, pretty please build it! I'll sell the 350 XCF and 250 FX if they do.
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soggy
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soggy 4/14/2021 1:38pm
4/14/2021 1:38pm
soggy wrote:
On the topic of the thread I don’t think we’ll see much change from anyone for 22. 2023 could have new bikes from Kawi, Yamaha, ktm...
On the topic of the thread I don’t think we’ll see much change from anyone for 22. 2023 could have new bikes from Kawi, Yamaha, ktm, Honda (250) and if lightning strikes maybe Suzuki. We should also have a beta Mx 450 by then as well I think
MBR wrote:
Honda CRF250R will be new already 2022.
Has Honda confirmed that yet? I could see them sticking with the same model one more year just because the pandemic really slowed things down.
RMT
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RMT 4/14/2021 1:44pm
4/14/2021 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2021 1:45pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next...
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next bike.
PTshox wrote:
If they make a 350FX it will sell... sell lots. The 250FX is a very good bike. I have a KTM 350 XCF too... the 250FX...
If they make a 350FX it will sell... sell lots. The 250FX is a very good bike. I have a KTM 350 XCF too... the 250FX (2020) handles better. A 350 FX would be perfect. Please, pretty please build it! I'll sell the 350 XCF and 250 FX if they do.
Ok Yamaha, there are at least 2 dudes on Vital that want a 350cc bike, one moto and one off-road. Get to it.

Conversations like this remind me of talking to a guy that wanted to start a dealership. He said he had at least 10 family and friends lined up to buy some bikes, quads and SxS's the day he opened. I told him great, but who is going to come in the second day and buy 10 more and twice that on Saturday? Dead in the water.
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soggy
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soggy 4/14/2021 1:44pm
4/14/2021 1:44pm
RMT wrote:
I thought this was a moto forum? LOL. Add in another 1400 units for the XC-F (no XC-FW listed but sometimes they group similar bikes together)...
I thought this was a moto forum? LOL.

Add in another 1400 units for the XC-F (no XC-FW listed but sometimes they group similar bikes together) which further cements my point. Trail guys don't need a class to race, they just ride. The 350 is perfect in this instance (trail riders) but less than 3000 units is not enough volume to raise serious consideration.




Interesting info. I’d be curious how that compares to the numbers ktm sells for there 250 and 450 line. If they sell more of them then the 250 or 450 then there is a strong market for them.

Not having a class isn’t a huge deal as the number of people who just ride practice days far outweighs those that race and if your riding the vet class it’s more about skill and fitness then the size of the bike.
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PTshox
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PTshox 4/14/2021 1:54pm
4/14/2021 1:54pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next...
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next bike.
PTshox wrote:
If they make a 350FX it will sell... sell lots. The 250FX is a very good bike. I have a KTM 350 XCF too... the 250FX...
If they make a 350FX it will sell... sell lots. The 250FX is a very good bike. I have a KTM 350 XCF too... the 250FX (2020) handles better. A 350 FX would be perfect. Please, pretty please build it! I'll sell the 350 XCF and 250 FX if they do.
RMT wrote:
Ok Yamaha, there are at least 2 dudes on Vital that want a 350cc bike, one moto and one off-road. Get to it. Conversations like this...
Ok Yamaha, there are at least 2 dudes on Vital that want a 350cc bike, one moto and one off-road. Get to it.

Conversations like this remind me of talking to a guy that wanted to start a dealership. He said he had at least 10 family and friends lined up to buy some bikes, quads and SxS's the day he opened. I told him great, but who is going to come in the second day and buy 10 more and twice that on Saturday? Dead in the water.
This world wide data for bike sales or US only? Or??
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Black Diesel Bomber 4/14/2021 1:56pm
4/14/2021 1:56pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next...
Yamaha is really stupid for not making a 350. If they slimmed up the blue pig with an all new YZF350 it would be my next bike.
PTshox wrote:
If they make a 350FX it will sell... sell lots. The 250FX is a very good bike. I have a KTM 350 XCF too... the 250FX...
If they make a 350FX it will sell... sell lots. The 250FX is a very good bike. I have a KTM 350 XCF too... the 250FX (2020) handles better. A 350 FX would be perfect. Please, pretty please build it! I'll sell the 350 XCF and 250 FX if they do.
RMT wrote:
Ok Yamaha, there are at least 2 dudes on Vital that want a 350cc bike, one moto and one off-road. Get to it. Conversations like this...
Ok Yamaha, there are at least 2 dudes on Vital that want a 350cc bike, one moto and one off-road. Get to it.

Conversations like this remind me of talking to a guy that wanted to start a dealership. He said he had at least 10 family and friends lined up to buy some bikes, quads and SxS's the day he opened. I told him great, but who is going to come in the second day and buy 10 more and twice that on Saturday? Dead in the water.
350's are becoming the new 450's for vets and play riders...there's not just a couple dudes who want them. They are becoming more powerful each year and all the vets realize 450's are just too much.
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RMT
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RMT 4/14/2021 2:05pm
4/14/2021 2:05pm
soggy wrote:
Interesting info. I’d be curious how that compares to the numbers ktm sells for there 250 and 450 line. If they sell more of them then...
Interesting info. I’d be curious how that compares to the numbers ktm sells for there 250 and 450 line. If they sell more of them then the 250 or 450 then there is a strong market for them.

Not having a class isn’t a huge deal as the number of people who just ride practice days far outweighs those that race and if your riding the vet class it’s more about skill and fitness then the size of the bike.
Most guys buying race bikes have the idea in their head that at some point they will race. Reality is that 60%+ of the new MX focused bikes sold will never take a gate drop.

KTM's top selling model is the 300 XC-W Tpi, but they sell WAY more 450 SX and 250 SX than the 350 versions and its not even close.
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RMT
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RMT 4/14/2021 2:14pm
4/14/2021 2:14pm
PTshox wrote:
This world wide data for bike sales or US only? Or??
Good ole USA but the numbers pretty much are the same with some exceptions in other parts of the world. Anecdotally you might see more orange, blue, green or red at your local track in certain cc sizes for many reasons, but the numbers replicate across the globe pretty consistently. I will say that the numbers from other places are not as easy to compile and compare as they don't break them down like we see from the MIC but you can get the gist from digging deep enough.
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soggy
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soggy 4/14/2021 2:18pm
4/14/2021 2:18pm
soggy wrote:
Interesting info. I’d be curious how that compares to the numbers ktm sells for there 250 and 450 line. If they sell more of them then...
Interesting info. I’d be curious how that compares to the numbers ktm sells for there 250 and 450 line. If they sell more of them then the 250 or 450 then there is a strong market for them.

Not having a class isn’t a huge deal as the number of people who just ride practice days far outweighs those that race and if your riding the vet class it’s more about skill and fitness then the size of the bike.
RMT wrote:
Most guys buying race bikes have the idea in their head that at some point they will race. Reality is that 60%+ of the new MX...
Most guys buying race bikes have the idea in their head that at some point they will race. Reality is that 60%+ of the new MX focused bikes sold will never take a gate drop.

KTM's top selling model is the 300 XC-W Tpi, but they sell WAY more 450 SX and 250 SX than the 350 versions and its not even close.
Cool thanks for the info. Can you put a number on the 450sxf and 250sxf sales? I’m mostly curious at this point
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 4/14/2021 2:21pm
4/14/2021 2:21pm
soggy wrote:
Interesting info. I’d be curious how that compares to the numbers ktm sells for there 250 and 450 line. If they sell more of them then...
Interesting info. I’d be curious how that compares to the numbers ktm sells for there 250 and 450 line. If they sell more of them then the 250 or 450 then there is a strong market for them.

Not having a class isn’t a huge deal as the number of people who just ride practice days far outweighs those that race and if your riding the vet class it’s more about skill and fitness then the size of the bike.
RMT wrote:
Most guys buying race bikes have the idea in their head that at some point they will race. Reality is that 60%+ of the new MX...
Most guys buying race bikes have the idea in their head that at some point they will race. Reality is that 60%+ of the new MX focused bikes sold will never take a gate drop.

KTM's top selling model is the 300 XC-W Tpi, but they sell WAY more 450 SX and 250 SX than the 350 versions and its not even close.
soggy wrote:
Cool thanks for the info. Can you put a number on the 450sxf and 250sxf sales? I’m mostly curious at this point
RMT you could just share your MIC login information and avoid all these questions. Please and thanks.

lol
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RMT
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RMT 4/14/2021 2:21pm
4/14/2021 2:21pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
350's are becoming the new 450's for vets and play riders...there's not just a couple dudes who want them. They are becoming more powerful each year...
350's are becoming the new 450's for vets and play riders...there's not just a couple dudes who want them. They are becoming more powerful each year and all the vets realize 450's are just too much.
Question, now that bikes are starting to come with programable mapping, would you care if it was still a 450 and you had the ability to just hit a button and change the map making the bike behave just like a 350? Or even a 250F if that's what you wanted it to be?
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RMT
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RMT 4/14/2021 2:25pm
4/14/2021 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2021 2:28pm
GrapeApe wrote:
RMT you could just share your MIC login information and avoid all these questions. Please and thanks.

lol
Sure.

User ID: Rich-Cain69@douchenozzle.com
Password: Moran

Not case sensitive. LOL

This is probably the most posts in one day I have ever had for the past 15 years Ive been on this site. Shoot, you could probably add in motodrive, freshdirt and wherever we came from before that. haha.

How am I doing Bart?
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 4/14/2021 2:25pm
4/14/2021 2:25pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig. Where are you getting your numbers?? Not...
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig.

Where are you getting your numbers?? Not saying you are wrong but what is the source of your numbers above? Are you a dealer?

Jealousy ain’t pretty
soggy
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soggy 4/14/2021 2:26pm
4/14/2021 2:26pm
RMT wrote:
Question, now that bikes are starting to come with programable mapping, would you care if it was still a 450 and you had the ability to...
Question, now that bikes are starting to come with programable mapping, would you care if it was still a 450 and you had the ability to just hit a button and change the map making the bike behave just like a 350? Or even a 250F if that's what you wanted it to be?
You could never achieve that just because of the rotational weight of the 450 engine. It will never feel as light and nimble as the 250. Maybe once electric gets developed things like that would be achievable
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Black Diesel Bomber 4/14/2021 2:33pm
4/14/2021 2:33pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig. Where are you getting your numbers?? Not...
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig.

Where are you getting your numbers?? Not saying you are wrong but what is the source of your numbers above? Are you a dealer?

sandtrack315 wrote:
Jealousy ain’t pretty
What are you implying???
Black Diesel Bomber 4/14/2021 2:47pm
4/14/2021 2:47pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
350's are becoming the new 450's for vets and play riders...there's not just a couple dudes who want them. They are becoming more powerful each year...
350's are becoming the new 450's for vets and play riders...there's not just a couple dudes who want them. They are becoming more powerful each year and all the vets realize 450's are just too much.
RMT wrote:
Question, now that bikes are starting to come with programable mapping, would you care if it was still a 450 and you had the ability to...
Question, now that bikes are starting to come with programable mapping, would you care if it was still a 450 and you had the ability to just hit a button and change the map making the bike behave just like a 350? Or even a 250F if that's what you wanted it to be?
I understand your logic but people want a lighter more nimble and flickable bike and this comes into play when you compare a 350 to 450. Even though the weight is very similar, the smaller bore feels lighter and is more flickable compared to the big bore. I just went through this, and even comparing a Beta 350 to 390 (exact same bike but 390 has longer stroke) the 350 feels lighter. I went with the 390 because I want more low end for the type of riding I'll be doing with it.
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Titan1
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Titan1 4/14/2021 2:51pm
4/14/2021 2:51pm
DB505 wrote:
I sure wish one of the big4 ( jap bikes) would release a 350, they’ll sell the shit out of them
I'd be all over a YZ350FX...I'd be at the nearest dealer to put down a deposit on the day they are announced. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a line getting in the door of guys trying to do the same thing.

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