KTM 250f no oil to cam

elvis111
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elvis111
2020 xcf250 20hrs cams starved of oil. Dealer says foreign matter must have clogged oil passage Oil screen and filter are clean. I see postings with similar issues. Has KTM helped anyone with this? My oil pumps look good.
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CKNY
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CKNY 3/30/2021 5:10pm
3/30/2021 5:10pm
elvis111 wrote:
2020 xcf250 20hrs cams starved of oil. Dealer says foreign matter must have clogged oil passage Oil screen and filter are clean. I see postings with...
2020 xcf250 20hrs cams starved of oil. Dealer says foreign matter must have clogged oil passage Oil screen and filter are clean. I see postings with similar issues. Has KTM helped anyone with this? My oil pumps look good.
Happened on my 350. Dealer sold me the parts at 10% over cost. Had the cam journals repaired. Shitty deal.
elvis111
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elvis111 3/30/2021 6:00pm
3/30/2021 6:00pm
I’m aware of no less than 5 other owners who have encountered this issue. What can be done to prevent the cam sprayers from clogging. We are changing oil and filters every three hours. The dealer told us we must have introduced dirt into the system during an oil change.
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Wiff3
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Wiff3 3/30/2021 6:07pm
3/30/2021 6:07pm
Funny you should post this. I have a '20 450sxf in my garage with 30hrs that has the same issue....
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 3/30/2021 6:39pm
3/30/2021 6:39pm Edited Date/Time 3/30/2021 6:41pm
In a lot of these cases it is a low oil pressure and oil delivery problem with oil not getting to the cam journals which causes the rough surface on them. This can be from dirty oil, but I would suggest in most cases it is not the case.
A leak at the oil filter, oil screens or other oil passages or reduction in oil flow, even very small ones, will cause just enough reduction in the oil delivery to this areas of the cam to cause a lot of damage in a very short time. I would cut open the old oil filter a review it's contents for alloy and dirt content. I would also suggest doing the oil changes more frequently than what is being done now.

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GetItOnLikeTron 3/30/2021 6:44pm
3/30/2021 6:44pm
My dealership has encountered this problem before and it turned out to be a casting issue
captmoto
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captmoto 3/30/2021 9:02pm
3/30/2021 9:02pm
Is it a problem like the oil failures of the 350s?
CKNY
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CKNY 3/31/2021 4:42am
3/31/2021 4:42am
elvis111 wrote:
I’m aware of no less than 5 other owners who have encountered this issue. What can be done to prevent the cam sprayers from clogging. We...
I’m aware of no less than 5 other owners who have encountered this issue. What can be done to prevent the cam sprayers from clogging. We are changing oil and filters every three hours. The dealer told us we must have introduced dirt into the system during an oil change.
I had a friend with a 350 that had the same issue, was a piece of assembly material that blocked it. Looked like silicone or gasket material.
elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 5:16am
3/31/2021 5:16am
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
In a lot of these cases it is a low oil pressure and oil delivery problem with oil not getting to the cam journals which causes...
In a lot of these cases it is a low oil pressure and oil delivery problem with oil not getting to the cam journals which causes the rough surface on them. This can be from dirty oil, but I would suggest in most cases it is not the case.
A leak at the oil filter, oil screens or other oil passages or reduction in oil flow, even very small ones, will cause just enough reduction in the oil delivery to this areas of the cam to cause a lot of damage in a very short time. I would cut open the old oil filter a review it's contents for alloy and dirt content. I would also suggest doing the oil changes more frequently than what is being done now.

Paw Paw
We did 6 oil changes in 20 hrs our gncc races are 3 plus hours long it is not in the cards for a ready to race KTM to complete one race without stopping for fresh oil?. My ims fuel tank gives us almost three hours of run time. Surely KTM doesn’t believe oil should expire before a tank of fuel. We bleed orange and own 7 KTM motorcycles including two identical xcf 250 a 2021 xcf350 a 450 xcf a 300xc a 250sxf none of the other bikes experienced this failure. We are crazy on maintenance the bikes are washed before service and we only use KTM parts and motorex oil I’m only on here trying to understand why this failed so we can prevent this from happening again. Thanks for your help in advance
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elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 5:19am
3/31/2021 5:19am
GetItOnLikeTron wrote:
My dealership has encountered this problem before and it turned out to be a casting issue
How did they determine a casting issue. Our dealer indicated a blocked oil passage. The cam and bridge were seized together and metal was everywhere so I question which came first the meltdown or the clog
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resetjet
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resetjet 3/31/2021 5:23am
3/31/2021 5:23am
Sounds like a casting issue. Getting oil, but not enough. Could be gasket material or something, but i would make 100% sure you find what it is before repairing.
elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 5:30am
3/31/2021 5:30am
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
In a lot of these cases it is a low oil pressure and oil delivery problem with oil not getting to the cam journals which causes...
In a lot of these cases it is a low oil pressure and oil delivery problem with oil not getting to the cam journals which causes the rough surface on them. This can be from dirty oil, but I would suggest in most cases it is not the case.
A leak at the oil filter, oil screens or other oil passages or reduction in oil flow, even very small ones, will cause just enough reduction in the oil delivery to this areas of the cam to cause a lot of damage in a very short time. I would cut open the old oil filter a review it's contents for alloy and dirt content. I would also suggest doing the oil changes more frequently than what is being done now.

Paw Paw
I agree and fully understand oil pressure requirements but why are there so many of these bikes failing. I personally have five acquaintances with the same issue. I’m looking for a solution as to prevent this after the rebuild. My screen and filter were clean our oil changes are every three hours I did notice metal on the drain plug magnet the first two oil changes but nothing after. First oil was changed at 0.5hrs second at 1.5hrs
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elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 5:36am
3/31/2021 5:36am
resetjet wrote:
Sounds like a casting issue. Getting oil, but not enough. Could be gasket material or something, but i would make 100% sure you find what it...
Sounds like a casting issue. Getting oil, but not enough. Could be gasket material or something, but i would make 100% sure you find what it is before repairing.
Yes that is my issue If I knew what caused this I would feel better moving forward. I know it is not lack of maintenance. If you truly neglected the bike and did nothing but ride it 20hrs would equal maybe 400 miles. This is not living up to the ready to race legacy
elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 5:53am
3/31/2021 5:53am
Wiff3 wrote:
Funny you should post this. I have a '20 450sxf in my garage with 30hrs that has the same issue....
Sorry your in our boat too
elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 10:34am
3/31/2021 10:34am
captmoto wrote:
Is it a problem like the oil failures of the 350s?
Seems to be an oil delivery issue like the 350s. I am trying to find a common cause. The dealer claims foreign material must have got into the system during an oil change and blocked the passage that lubricates the cams. We are very careful and can not see how that could have happened. We do not want to reassemble without a cause
elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 10:37am
3/31/2021 10:37am
Wiff3 wrote:
Funny you should post this. I have a '20 450sxf in my garage with 30hrs that has the same issue....
elvis111 wrote:
Sorry your in our boat too
I’m finding this is not an uncommon issue. My concern is how do we prevent it $1500 in parts every 20hrs is tough to justify
Leeham
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Leeham 3/31/2021 12:35pm
3/31/2021 12:35pm
I could be mistaken but I remember awhile back there was a gear for the oil pump that was made out of plastic and would strip and would cause similar problems. I think I saw the post on Thumpertalk and I believe it was for a 16+ KTM 350. Its been awhile since I last saw it.
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Kanewel433
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Kanewel433 3/31/2021 1:11pm
3/31/2021 1:11pm
I blew up my 2015 KTM 250 SXF when the oil impeller disintegrated, thus the oil delivery failed and the cam journals were completely fried. I'm just now learning that this seems to be a common issue - and fearful my 350 may face the same fate.
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elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 1:34pm
3/31/2021 1:34pm
Kanewel433 wrote:
I blew up my 2015 KTM 250 SXF when the oil impeller disintegrated, thus the oil delivery failed and the cam journals were completely fried. I'm...
I blew up my 2015 KTM 250 SXF when the oil impeller disintegrated, thus the oil delivery failed and the cam journals were completely fried. I'm just now learning that this seems to be a common issue - and fearful my 350 may face the same fate.
Our bike shows no issue with the oil pump gears. They are plastic but appear normal. I’m confused as to how many of these bikes are failing. KTM is saying everything looks good and I should put it together at my expense we bought the bike new five months ago

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500 Mike
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500 Mike 3/31/2021 1:35pm
3/31/2021 1:35pm
After reading this thread, along with others of a similar nature in the recent past, it makes me glad I don't ride any more. I probably can't afford it. I wish all of you the best in getting each issue resolved.
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skeef
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skeef 3/31/2021 1:46pm
3/31/2021 1:46pm
this is giving me anxiety about my 20' 450xcf with 30hrs...
inthebadboycorner 3/31/2021 2:04pm
3/31/2021 2:04pm
500 Mike wrote:
After reading this thread, along with others of a similar nature in the recent past, it makes me glad I don't ride any more. I probably...
After reading this thread, along with others of a similar nature in the recent past, it makes me glad I don't ride any more. I probably can't afford it. I wish all of you the best in getting each issue resolved.
I feel the same as you, i actually feel a heavyness on my shoulders when I read these stories, wether or not it is the fault of an owner it is heart breaking.
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elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 2:15pm
3/31/2021 2:15pm
500 Mike wrote:
After reading this thread, along with others of a similar nature in the recent past, it makes me glad I don't ride any more. I probably...
After reading this thread, along with others of a similar nature in the recent past, it makes me glad I don't ride any more. I probably can't afford it. I wish all of you the best in getting each issue resolved.
inthebadboycorner wrote:
I feel the same as you, i actually feel a heavyness on my shoulders when I read these stories, wether or not it is the fault...
I feel the same as you, i actually feel a heavyness on my shoulders when I read these stories, wether or not it is the fault of an owner it is heart breaking.
We are paying $9-$10k for a motorcycle that fails catastrophically in a very unreasonably short period of time. KTM has to be aware of this issue yet the engine design has not changed. I’m not sure if this is a design flaw or a quality control issue. Reguardless we need to figure out why this is happening so we can prevent it. I own many KTMs I’m a huge fan but there is a problem
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richter28
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richter28 3/31/2021 4:26pm
3/31/2021 4:26pm
Don't think it's the same issue here, as there is an updated part now that seems much stiffer and it seems like you checked, but we've seen numerous 250's and 350's with the warped oil pump rotor gear which cause the fried heads. We've seen it after 1 hour, 30 hours, 150 hours... Sucks to have to take the clutch off and check it on every service we do on the 16+ KTM and Huskys so we can confidently give it back to the customer. That being said, KTM has covered multiple of them, even after many more hours than you'd think. Good luck to you, hopefully your dealer can get in contact with the right people and get you squared away, because KTM is very good at covering issues like this if your dealer is competent.
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elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 5:08pm
3/31/2021 5:08pm
richter28 wrote:
Don't think it's the same issue here, as there is an updated part now that seems much stiffer and it seems like you checked, but we've...
Don't think it's the same issue here, as there is an updated part now that seems much stiffer and it seems like you checked, but we've seen numerous 250's and 350's with the warped oil pump rotor gear which cause the fried heads. We've seen it after 1 hour, 30 hours, 150 hours... Sucks to have to take the clutch off and check it on every service we do on the 16+ KTM and Huskys so we can confidently give it back to the customer. That being said, KTM has covered multiple of them, even after many more hours than you'd think. Good luck to you, hopefully your dealer can get in contact with the right people and get you squared away, because KTM is very good at covering issues like this if your dealer is competent.
Yes we did check the gear KTM inspected it and it is ok The dealer involved is trying to help. The tech that disassemble our bike noted that debris blocked the oil passage. KTM is reviewing our case but related that the tech statement takes the liability from them. My issue is what is the debris and where did it come from. They are implying we somehow got a piece of dirt in the system during our last oil change. It is what came first. The engine seized at the cams metal and plastic melted How does a tech determine the debris and origin blocking a tiny passage. More reasonable blockage is the debris from the meltdown
elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 5:11pm
3/31/2021 5:11pm
richter28 wrote:
Don't think it's the same issue here, as there is an updated part now that seems much stiffer and it seems like you checked, but we've...
Don't think it's the same issue here, as there is an updated part now that seems much stiffer and it seems like you checked, but we've seen numerous 250's and 350's with the warped oil pump rotor gear which cause the fried heads. We've seen it after 1 hour, 30 hours, 150 hours... Sucks to have to take the clutch off and check it on every service we do on the 16+ KTM and Huskys so we can confidently give it back to the customer. That being said, KTM has covered multiple of them, even after many more hours than you'd think. Good luck to you, hopefully your dealer can get in contact with the right people and get you squared away, because KTM is very good at covering issues like this if your dealer is competent.
It also should be noted we purchased a new bike from the dealer in question the day we dropped the bike with the issue off. We are not trying to cheap out We are just not getting an answer as to what happened
Canook
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Canook 3/31/2021 5:38pm
3/31/2021 5:38pm
Is this an issue with Huskys too (i.e. 18 FC250)? Anyone have pics of an oil pump gear going bad or blocked oil passages? Is this worth a proactive tear down to check?
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elvis111
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elvis111 3/31/2021 5:50pm
3/31/2021 5:50pm
Canook wrote:
Is this an issue with Huskys too (i.e. 18 FC250)? Anyone have pics of an oil pump gear going bad or blocked oil passages? Is this...
Is this an issue with Huskys too (i.e. 18 FC250)? Anyone have pics of an oil pump gear going bad or blocked oil passages? Is this worth a proactive tear down to check?
That is the $2000 question. Our oil filter and screens were clean I’m worried about not having the answer and repeating a meltdown. We have an identical bike with over 200 hours on it. No issues. I’m getting two possibilities Oil pump gear or gasket material dislodging and causing blockage.
YZed250
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YZed250 4/1/2021 8:54am
4/1/2021 8:54am
Canook wrote:
Is this an issue with Huskys too (i.e. 18 FC250)? Anyone have pics of an oil pump gear going bad or blocked oil passages? Is this...
Is this an issue with Huskys too (i.e. 18 FC250)? Anyone have pics of an oil pump gear going bad or blocked oil passages? Is this worth a proactive tear down to check?
Likely your oil pump idler gear should be replaced with the updated part number. The new gear is of a different/stiffer type of plastic. I think KTM/Husqvarna updated the part number in 2019 or 2020.
seth505
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seth505 4/1/2021 9:05am
4/1/2021 9:05am
richter28 wrote:
Don't think it's the same issue here, as there is an updated part now that seems much stiffer and it seems like you checked, but we've...
Don't think it's the same issue here, as there is an updated part now that seems much stiffer and it seems like you checked, but we've seen numerous 250's and 350's with the warped oil pump rotor gear which cause the fried heads. We've seen it after 1 hour, 30 hours, 150 hours... Sucks to have to take the clutch off and check it on every service we do on the 16+ KTM and Huskys so we can confidently give it back to the customer. That being said, KTM has covered multiple of them, even after many more hours than you'd think. Good luck to you, hopefully your dealer can get in contact with the right people and get you squared away, because KTM is very good at covering issues like this if your dealer is competent.
elvis111 wrote:
Yes we did check the gear KTM inspected it and it is ok The dealer involved is trying to help. The tech that disassemble our bike...
Yes we did check the gear KTM inspected it and it is ok The dealer involved is trying to help. The tech that disassemble our bike noted that debris blocked the oil passage. KTM is reviewing our case but related that the tech statement takes the liability from them. My issue is what is the debris and where did it come from. They are implying we somehow got a piece of dirt in the system during our last oil change. It is what came first. The engine seized at the cams metal and plastic melted How does a tech determine the debris and origin blocking a tiny passage. More reasonable blockage is the debris from the meltdown
I'm not sure what you expect from the manufacturer at this point. The information they have (from the tech) says there was debris.
I think the solution here would be between you and the dealership (specifically, that tech). Had they shown you the "debris", you could get a more clear picture of the how & why. Either way, good luck, I hope it works out.
DynoDan22
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DynoDan22 4/1/2021 9:18am
4/1/2021 9:18am
My theory is that the gasket sealant squeeze-out between the two main cases breaks off and migrates to the cam oil journal nozzle and clogs it. I had a friend with a ‘19 350 whit smoked the cams and head. Upon disassembly, he found what looked to be black gasket sealer clogged in the nozzle of the cam sprayer. I think this is why it’s so inconsistent bike to bike. Some never seas a failure and some do. There is an oil galley that passes out of the pump, to the right side case and then up to the stud which feeds the oil to the head. There is no o-ring at this galley junction, only gasket sealant. If the squeeze-out is excessive, it can harden and break loose into the oil stream and ultimately make its way up to the cam sprayer. That’s the only evidence we found on my friend’s 350. The oil pump idler gear was fine (also updated p/n) and the sump screen/oil pump rotors were fine indicating that the debris entered the oil upstream from the screen/pumps.

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