Orlando Same Track as 08. JS, RC, CR still faster!

rubenkroon23 2/16/2021 10:46am
2/16/2021 10:46am
crusty_xx wrote:
The real difference is the drop off in lap pace within the top 10. 2021: less than 1 sec between 1st and 10th 2008: over 3...
The real difference is the drop off in lap pace within the top 10.
2021: less than 1 sec between 1st and 10th
2008: over 3 sec
Would like to see how consistent the top 3 off both races where. It looked like RC and JS were flying the whole race. Cant really compare the 2 races, but i think that would be a cool stat to see.
motomike894
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motomike894 2/16/2021 11:03am
2/16/2021 11:03am
Same layout sure, exact same course no lol, the rythm before finish was little different, no rollers before the finish double, and the dirt back then was bone dry dusty.
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mxb2 2/16/2021 11:05am
2/16/2021 11:05am
gt80rider wrote:
The guys on track today should be super stoked they don't have to race rc or bubba.... none of them have the raw desire or talent...
The guys on track today should be super stoked they don't have to race rc or bubba.... none of them have the raw desire or talent ....
Dungey beat stewart, kroc, tomac have won races over dungey. The top dudes will be the top dudes. In usa and mxgp.
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ti473
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ti473 2/16/2021 11:21am
2/16/2021 11:21am
why does this thread even exist??
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Raikzz
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Raikzz 2/16/2021 12:10pm
2/16/2021 12:10pm
Watching 07 race it visually seems like RC and Bubba were pushing their bikes more to the limits, but ( and that's a big but ) , i'm sure these bikes were much slower engine and suspension wise compared to 2021 bikes.

Bikes now are so fast and suspension so good that i truly believe even the top guys can't reach the bikes limits on these tight tracks, and that's why it probably seems why in 07 they were so much faster.

Hell, even if you look some pro ripping 125 2-stroke, it seems like they are absolutely flying :D laptimes tell a different story.

I'm the biggest JS7 fan ever, but Bubba in his prime with a 07 bike probably wouldn't make a top5, but prime Bubba and RC with a modern bike, i truly believe they would dominate the class.
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RR61114
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RR61114 2/16/2021 12:26pm
2/16/2021 12:26pm
ProbablyDave wrote:
It's ridiculously hard to meaningfully compare laptimes with dirt tracks. That's where there are no official lap records in motocross.
Agree 100% - plus - the obstacles, turns etc, can be the same - but that does not mean the dirt consistency, traction, ruts, etc. are the same.

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ZOBITO 2/16/2021 12:27pm
2/16/2021 12:27pm
ti473 wrote:
why does this thread even exist??
To let JT$ tell how silly it is in his RX breakdown?
Laughing
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tobz 2/16/2021 12:42pm
2/16/2021 12:42pm
stremme12 wrote:
Well there actually was a wall jump before crossing the start in 07 and to be fair the whoops are about as close as they could...
Well there actually was a wall jump before crossing the start in 07 and to be fair the whoops are about as close as they could be. They broke down more than 07 but that is expected with biblical amounts of rain. It very much was an almost exact replica. For the most part the rhythm sections were being done almost the same way everywhere as they were in 07.
soggy wrote:
My b thought on rdl they said the wall jump wasn’t in the original
Dirty Points wrote:
The wall was definitely in the original. I rewatched it before the race to remind myself of the track... But as far as comparing times decades...
The wall was definitely in the original. I rewatched it before the race to remind myself of the track... But as far as comparing times decades apart on different tracks (even if the layout is similar) with different dirt under different conditions, that's just silly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqN_G7J7GOI
Good god, waiting for those 2 (often 3) juggernauts to line up every week was intense. Never be another era like it.
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Ranman68
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Ranman68 2/16/2021 7:45pm
2/16/2021 7:45pm
After thinking RC and Stew were possibly faster in 07' on 07' bikes than the current elites on 2021 bikes, several people made some good points. Then i screenshotted and analyzed sections of both tracks. Here ya go...
1. There is indeed an extra jump in the section before the finish line. Its a steep jump. A "wall" jump some would say. That does make getting through that section take longer AND had the current riders coming into the 90 degree turn before the finish line much slower.
2. The whoops on the 2021 track are quite a bit narlier. They're deeper, steeper, and further apart. Way harder to stay on top and way harder to stay straight as they were rutted and cupped out.
3. Not totally sure, but jumps on 2021 version seem to be a little steeper with deeper ruts in between jumps on rythim sections.
4. Wetter soil, more laps that led to to more track degredation in 2021.
The 2021 track was just narlier with an extra wall jump that alone ate up at least a second or two per lap. Maybe RC and Stew from 07' could still win, but if so, they'd have to be on 2021 bikes and dialed.
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gerg
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gerg 2/16/2021 7:54pm
2/16/2021 7:54pm
Oh man this is getting to Marvel vs DC levels of theory crafting.
brocster
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brocster 2/16/2021 8:19pm
2/16/2021 8:19pm
Too much use of the word “almost” in this thread
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Crush
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Crush 2/16/2021 8:20pm
2/16/2021 8:20pm
FFS
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/17/2021 5:11am
2/17/2021 5:11am
stremme12 wrote:
Well there actually was a wall jump before crossing the start in 07 and to be fair the whoops are about as close as they could...
Well there actually was a wall jump before crossing the start in 07 and to be fair the whoops are about as close as they could be. They broke down more than 07 but that is expected with biblical amounts of rain. It very much was an almost exact replica. For the most part the rhythm sections were being done almost the same way everywhere as they were in 07.
soggy wrote:
My b thought on rdl they said the wall jump wasn’t in the original
Dirty Points wrote:
The wall was definitely in the original. I rewatched it before the race to remind myself of the track... But as far as comparing times decades...
The wall was definitely in the original. I rewatched it before the race to remind myself of the track... But as far as comparing times decades apart on different tracks (even if the layout is similar) with different dirt under different conditions, that's just silly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqN_G7J7GOI
That track is not exactly the same!
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Yeti831
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Yeti831 2/9/2022 8:14pm
2/9/2022 8:14pm
JCRacing822 wrote:
What if RC, Stew, and CR22 teleported to the 21’race on they’re 07’ bikes. Could they still be front runners, or would they’re old 450’s put...
What if RC, Stew, and CR22 teleported to the 21’race on they’re 07’ bikes. Could they still be front runners, or would they’re old 450’s put them at too much disadvantage?
So interesting take about that:

Think back to the 2005-2008 era to magazine test articles about how they got to ride X person’s bike and it breathed fire.

Riders and journalists from that time touch on how insanely fast, light and well suspended the factory bikes were.

450s have become eons more linear and manageable. I remember the 2003 yz450f being one of the most aggressively powered bikes I’ve ever ridden. Plus the Kawi then also had no problem getting out of a corner with jetting, cams and a piston. Just imo. Early 4 strokes were pretty damn fast.
Thisusernameisavailable 2/10/2022 12:00am
2/10/2022 12:00am
JCRacing822 wrote:
What if RC, Stew, and CR22 teleported to the 21’race on they’re 07’ bikes. Could they still be front runners, or would they’re old 450’s put...
What if RC, Stew, and CR22 teleported to the 21’race on they’re 07’ bikes. Could they still be front runners, or would they’re old 450’s put them at too much disadvantage?
Yeti831 wrote:
So interesting take about that: Think back to the 2005-2008 era to magazine test articles about how they got to ride X person’s bike and it...
So interesting take about that:

Think back to the 2005-2008 era to magazine test articles about how they got to ride X person’s bike and it breathed fire.

Riders and journalists from that time touch on how insanely fast, light and well suspended the factory bikes were.

450s have become eons more linear and manageable. I remember the 2003 yz450f being one of the most aggressively powered bikes I’ve ever ridden. Plus the Kawi then also had no problem getting out of a corner with jetting, cams and a piston. Just imo. Early 4 strokes were pretty damn fast.
Yeah I had a new 03 YZ450F and hated it!
The year before I had an 02 YZ426 and loved it!

The 03 put me off of 450s for a while and I actually sold the YZ450 mid season and bought a new RM125 to put some fun back in to it again.
I ended up back on an RMZ450 in 06 and I loved that thing.
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