This should settle it....blame pie for roczen’s second place finish

huckabuck
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huckabuck
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 6:43pm

Blame pie for Roczen’s second place finish

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Zesiger 112
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Zesiger 112 1/23/2021 11:46pm
1/23/2021 11:46pm
Needs one more, Roczen not being fast enough to pass Webb back after being passed. Ultimately that is the final reason for him finishing second
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dirtworldmx 1/23/2021 11:48pm
1/23/2021 11:48pm
It's not Roczen's fault...I know that much!
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ShawdowGlen
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ShawdowGlen 1/23/2021 11:49pm
1/23/2021 11:49pm
I need an "All of the above" to vote.

Because THAT is the gist of it.

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huckabuck
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huckabuck 1/24/2021 12:01am
1/24/2021 12:01am
ShawdowGlen wrote:
I need an "All of the above" to vote.

Because THAT is the gist of it.

That’s an easy cop out tho. They are all true, Webb was catching Roczen, Deano was in the way, and Roczen had some poor line choices. The whole point however is to find out which affected the outcome of the race the most.
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ShawdowGlen
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ShawdowGlen 1/24/2021 12:07am
1/24/2021 12:07am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 12:08am
huckabuck wrote:
That’s an easy cop out tho. They are all true, Webb was catching Roczen, Deano was in the way, and Roczen had some poor line choices...
That’s an easy cop out tho. They are all true, Webb was catching Roczen, Deano was in the way, and Roczen had some poor line choices. The whole point however is to find out which affected the outcome of the race the most.
The true reason for the affected outcome.....

TEAM ORDERS!!!!! (LOL....anyone want to borrow my tinfoil hat?).

....and yeah, I'm shamelessly sharing this picture I took of Wilsons pit board tonight in all the Deano threads.

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Thisusernameisavailable 1/24/2021 12:26am
1/24/2021 12:26am
If a race leader fell in the whoops and as a result didn't win, we wouldn't be blaming the track builders, would we?

Likewise, lappers are part of the challenge, part of the big puzzle that has to be overcome to be a champion. He who handles these challenges most efficiently, wins.
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Spudnut
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Spudnut 1/24/2021 2:02am
1/24/2021 2:02am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 2:02am
30/50/20
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ChrisB10
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ChrisB10 1/24/2021 2:06am
1/24/2021 2:06am
Didn't look like the flagger was waiving the leader flag to be fair to Dean....
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bh
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bh 1/24/2021 2:38am
1/24/2021 2:38am
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blockhead17 1/24/2021 3:13am
1/24/2021 3:13am
No way dean didn’t hear Webb and Kenny behind him, the pace they were going they would have been very loud on the track..
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cwel11
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cwel11 1/24/2021 5:19am
1/24/2021 5:19am

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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 1/24/2021 5:24am
1/24/2021 5:24am
dirtworldmx wrote:
It's not Roczen's fault...I know that much!
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 1/24/2021 6:05am
1/24/2021 6:05am
42-39-fiddy6,,,, "Whole Lotta Roxie"
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Crush
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Crush 1/24/2021 6:19am
1/24/2021 6:19am
Deano definitely held him up, but Kenny’s lead would have been a lot more solid if three consecutive laps prior he was still going table to table instead of over...
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gregyou
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gregyou 1/24/2021 6:22am
1/24/2021 6:22am
Seen a fair bit in the replays, who did Sean think the blue flags were for? Very hard to believe he didn’t see them
TBOLTUSA
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TBOLTUSA 1/24/2021 6:58am
1/24/2021 6:58am
None of this should have even happened
Its a 20 minute long race
The leader needs to pull away and gap second place long before the last few laps and get around slower riders quicker
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quadzrulebro 1/24/2021 7:12am
1/24/2021 7:12am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 8:20am
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to maintain his pace, Wilson would have never even been an issue. Kenny’s tongue was dragging in the spokes, and that’s why he couldn’t get by Wilson. Plain and simple.
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Skuzzy29
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Skuzzy29 1/24/2021 7:16am
1/24/2021 7:16am
quadzrulebro wrote:
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to...
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to maintain his pace, Wilson would have never even been an issue. Kenny’s tongue was dragging in the spokes, and that’s why he couldn’t get by Wilson. Plain and simple.
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent:

20 - 50.924
21 - 50.329
22 - 50.487
23 - 50.288
24 - 50.099
25 - 50.080
26 - 53.083
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str8line
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str8line 1/24/2021 7:17am
1/24/2021 7:17am
gregyou wrote:
Seen a fair bit in the replays, who did Sean think the blue flags were for? Very hard to believe he didn’t see them

Yeah, fuck Sean.
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quadzrulebro 1/24/2021 7:22am
1/24/2021 7:22am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 7:25am
quadzrulebro wrote:
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to...
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to maintain his pace, Wilson would have never even been an issue. Kenny’s tongue was dragging in the spokes, and that’s why he couldn’t get by Wilson. Plain and simple.
Skuzzy29 wrote:
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent: 20 - 50.924 21 - 50.329 22 - 50.487 23 - 50.288 24 - 50.099 25 - 50.080 26...
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent:

20 - 50.924
21 - 50.329
22 - 50.487
23 - 50.288
24 - 50.099
25 - 50.080
26 - 53.083
He was running 48s and 49s in the first half of the race. Post all 20 laps, and it tells a different story. Unfortunately for Kenny, Cooper was able to stay in the 49s.
Cooper put over 2 seconds on Kenny in 3 laps before they even caught Wilson.
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TerryB
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TerryB 1/24/2021 7:33am
1/24/2021 7:33am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 7:37am
I blame Kenny for not kicking it up a notch when Webb was closing.

I blame Kenny for getting rattled every time Webb is near him.

I blame Dean for thinking blue flags don't apply to him, because he still thinks he's a contender.

As much as I hate it, Webb earned the win.

Edit: I say this as a big Roczen fan.
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Skuzzy29
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Skuzzy29 1/24/2021 7:34am
1/24/2021 7:34am
quadzrulebro wrote:
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to...
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to maintain his pace, Wilson would have never even been an issue. Kenny’s tongue was dragging in the spokes, and that’s why he couldn’t get by Wilson. Plain and simple.
Skuzzy29 wrote:
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent: 20 - 50.924 21 - 50.329 22 - 50.487 23 - 50.288 24 - 50.099 25 - 50.080 26...
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent:

20 - 50.924
21 - 50.329
22 - 50.487
23 - 50.288
24 - 50.099
25 - 50.080
26 - 53.083
quadzrulebro wrote:
He was running 48s and 49s in the first half of the race. Post all 20 laps, and it tells a different story. Unfortunately for Kenny...
He was running 48s and 49s in the first half of the race. Post all 20 laps, and it tells a different story. Unfortunately for Kenny, Cooper was able to stay in the 49s.
Cooper put over 2 seconds on Kenny in 3 laps before they even caught Wilson.
I'll gladly post more lap times. Maybe 'tongue dragging' doesn't mean what you think it means. His pace was pretty consistent.

10 - 49.877
11 - 49.553
12 - 49.550
13 - 49.243
14 - 49.288
15 - 50.681
16 - 49.944
17 - 49.701
18 - 49.883
19 - 49.724
20 - 50.924
21 - 50.329
22 - 50.487
23 - 50.288
24 - 50.099
25 - 50.080
26 - 53.083

If his last 5 laps kept getting slower, then you could say he was dragging.
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RG1
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RG1 1/24/2021 7:37am
1/24/2021 7:37am
Webb was charging, and catching Roczen, but he doesn’t get close enough to make a pass without Wilson getting in the way. It’s combination of factors, Wilson screwed Roczen but Webb put himself in the position to take advantage of it
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quadzrulebro 1/24/2021 7:45am
1/24/2021 7:45am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 7:47am
Skuzzy29 wrote:
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent: 20 - 50.924 21 - 50.329 22 - 50.487 23 - 50.288 24 - 50.099 25 - 50.080 26...
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent:

20 - 50.924
21 - 50.329
22 - 50.487
23 - 50.288
24 - 50.099
25 - 50.080
26 - 53.083
quadzrulebro wrote:
He was running 48s and 49s in the first half of the race. Post all 20 laps, and it tells a different story. Unfortunately for Kenny...
He was running 48s and 49s in the first half of the race. Post all 20 laps, and it tells a different story. Unfortunately for Kenny, Cooper was able to stay in the 49s.
Cooper put over 2 seconds on Kenny in 3 laps before they even caught Wilson.
Skuzzy29 wrote:
I'll gladly post more lap times. Maybe 'tongue dragging' doesn't mean what you think it means. His pace was pretty consistent. 10 - 49.877 11 -...
I'll gladly post more lap times. Maybe 'tongue dragging' doesn't mean what you think it means. His pace was pretty consistent.

10 - 49.877
11 - 49.553
12 - 49.550
13 - 49.243
14 - 49.288
15 - 50.681
16 - 49.944
17 - 49.701
18 - 49.883
19 - 49.724
20 - 50.924
21 - 50.329
22 - 50.487
23 - 50.288
24 - 50.099
25 - 50.080
26 - 53.083

If his last 5 laps kept getting slower, then you could say he was dragging.
Kenny was consistently getting slower, which is indicative of a rider fading due to fatigue. Cooper was able to maintain 49s to the end, and that is why he won. In case you need a refresher, the blue flag doesn’t tell a rider to pull over for the guy passing him. It tells the rider to maintain his line because a faster rider is behind him. I didn’t see any swerving on Dean’s part. Kenny got tired and slowed down allowing Cooper to catch him. Then when he got to Wilson, he wasn’t going enough faster than Wilson to blitz by him. Kenny’s lack of fitness in comparison to Cooper is what allowed Cooper to reel him in from 3.5 seconds back after getting passed by 94. Seems pretty clear to me.
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Skuzzy29
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Skuzzy29 1/24/2021 7:51am
1/24/2021 7:51am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 7:53am
quadzrulebro wrote:
Kenny was consistently getting slower, which is indicative of a rider fading due to fatigue. Cooper was able to maintain 49s to the end, and that...
Kenny was consistently getting slower, which is indicative of a rider fading due to fatigue. Cooper was able to maintain 49s to the end, and that is why he won. In case you need a refresher, the blue flag doesn’t tell a rider to pull over for the guy passing him. It tells the rider to maintain his line because a faster rider is behind him. I didn’t see any swerving on Dean’s part. Kenny got tired and slowed down allowing Cooper to catch him. Then when he got to Wilson, he wasn’t going enough faster than Wilson to blitz by him. Kenny’s lack of fitness in comparison to Cooper is what allowed Cooper to reel him in from 3.5 seconds back after getting passed by 94. Seems pretty clear to me.
I don't need a refresher. Just calling you on your BS claim. Kenny was consistent and your other claim that Webb took out 3 seconds the last few laps is BS too. You need to work on what's 'clear' to you. He had one hot lap that took .7

94------------2
22 50.487 22 50.345
23 50.288 23 50.296
24 50.099 24 49.344
25 50.080 25 49.926

Kenny definitely didn't handle catching Wilson the way he should of to keep the lead. That's on him. But Webb wasn't getting him without the Wilson issue.
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nickm
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nickm 1/24/2021 7:56am
1/24/2021 7:56am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 8:01am
quadzrulebro wrote:
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to...
Ken passed Cooper and kept pulling on him and had over 3 seconds on Cooper with 4 minutes to go. If he had been able to maintain his pace, Wilson would have never even been an issue. Kenny’s tongue was dragging in the spokes, and that’s why he couldn’t get by Wilson. Plain and simple.
Skuzzy29 wrote:
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent: 20 - 50.924 21 - 50.329 22 - 50.487 23 - 50.288 24 - 50.099 25 - 50.080 26...
His tongue was dragging? He was consistent:

20 - 50.924
21 - 50.329
22 - 50.487
23 - 50.288
24 - 50.099
25 - 50.080
26 - 53.083
Adding Webbs lap times to it:

Lap/# Roczen/ Webb / Difference
20 / 50.924 / 50.111 / 0.813 quicker Webb
21 - 50.329 / 49.710 / 0.619 quicker Webb
22 - 50.487 / 50.345 / 0.142 quicker Webb
23 - 50.288 / 50.296 / 0.008 quicker Roczen
24 - 50.099 / 49.344 / 0.755 quicker Webb
25 - 50.080 / 49.926 0.154 quicker Webb (total between lap 20-25 = 2.475 sec quicker Webb
26 - 53.083 / 51.686 / 1.397 quicker Webb

So if we look at the numbers, Webb was catching Roczen over the the previous laps (making up almost 2.5 seconds). So sure the dean-o thing was a factor but Webb simply caught Roczen.
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quadzrulebro 1/24/2021 7:59am
1/24/2021 7:59am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 8:02am
quadzrulebro wrote:
Kenny was consistently getting slower, which is indicative of a rider fading due to fatigue. Cooper was able to maintain 49s to the end, and that...
Kenny was consistently getting slower, which is indicative of a rider fading due to fatigue. Cooper was able to maintain 49s to the end, and that is why he won. In case you need a refresher, the blue flag doesn’t tell a rider to pull over for the guy passing him. It tells the rider to maintain his line because a faster rider is behind him. I didn’t see any swerving on Dean’s part. Kenny got tired and slowed down allowing Cooper to catch him. Then when he got to Wilson, he wasn’t going enough faster than Wilson to blitz by him. Kenny’s lack of fitness in comparison to Cooper is what allowed Cooper to reel him in from 3.5 seconds back after getting passed by 94. Seems pretty clear to me.
Skuzzy29 wrote:
I don't need a refresher. Just calling you on your BS claim. Kenny was consistent and your other claim that Webb took out 3 seconds the...
I don't need a refresher. Just calling you on your BS claim. Kenny was consistent and your other claim that Webb took out 3 seconds the last few laps is BS too. You need to work on what's 'clear' to you. He had one hot lap that took .7

94------------2
22 50.487 22 50.345
23 50.288 23 50.296
24 50.099 24 49.344
25 50.080 25 49.926

Kenny definitely didn't handle catching Wilson the way he should of to keep the lead. That's on him. But Webb wasn't getting him without the Wilson issue.
I just watched the replay. With 4:15 to go on the clock, Kenny had 3.4 seconds on Cooper. At the 4 minute mark, the gap had fallen to 3.2, but was still in excess of 3 seconds as I stated. He got tired and faded. Simple as that. If you don’t believe me on my stats, go rewatch the race.
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str8line
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str8line 1/24/2021 8:06am
1/24/2021 8:06am
quadzrulebro wrote:
Kenny was consistently getting slower, which is indicative of a rider fading due to fatigue. Cooper was able to maintain 49s to the end, and that...
Kenny was consistently getting slower, which is indicative of a rider fading due to fatigue. Cooper was able to maintain 49s to the end, and that is why he won. In case you need a refresher, the blue flag doesn’t tell a rider to pull over for the guy passing him. It tells the rider to maintain his line because a faster rider is behind him. I didn’t see any swerving on Dean’s part. Kenny got tired and slowed down allowing Cooper to catch him. Then when he got to Wilson, he wasn’t going enough faster than Wilson to blitz by him. Kenny’s lack of fitness in comparison to Cooper is what allowed Cooper to reel him in from 3.5 seconds back after getting passed by 94. Seems pretty clear to me.
Skuzzy29 wrote:
I don't need a refresher. Just calling you on your BS claim. Kenny was consistent and your other claim that Webb took out 3 seconds the...
I don't need a refresher. Just calling you on your BS claim. Kenny was consistent and your other claim that Webb took out 3 seconds the last few laps is BS too. You need to work on what's 'clear' to you. He had one hot lap that took .7

94------------2
22 50.487 22 50.345
23 50.288 23 50.296
24 50.099 24 49.344
25 50.080 25 49.926

Kenny definitely didn't handle catching Wilson the way he should of to keep the lead. That's on him. But Webb wasn't getting him without the Wilson issue.
quadzrulebro wrote:
I just watched the replay. With 4:15 to go on the clock, Kenny had 3.4 seconds on Cooper. At the 4 minute mark, the gap had...
I just watched the replay. With 4:15 to go on the clock, Kenny had 3.4 seconds on Cooper. At the 4 minute mark, the gap had fallen to 3.2, but was still in excess of 3 seconds as I stated. He got tired and faded. Simple as that. If you don’t believe me on my stats, go rewatch the race.

How many lappers did they pass in that time? Maybe Kenny was a little slower getting through. Or maybe Cooper just picked up his pace. By his lap times Kenny didn't seem to be fading though.
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Skuzzy29
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Skuzzy29 1/24/2021 8:07am
1/24/2021 8:07am
quadzrulebro wrote:
I just watched the replay. With 4:15 to go on the clock, Kenny had 3.4 seconds on Cooper. At the 4 minute mark, the gap had...
I just watched the replay. With 4:15 to go on the clock, Kenny had 3.4 seconds on Cooper. At the 4 minute mark, the gap had fallen to 3.2, but was still in excess of 3 seconds as I stated. He got tired and faded. Simple as that. If you don’t believe me on my stats, go rewatch the race.
I've already watched the race. You said, "Cooper put over 2 seconds on Kenny in 3 laps before they even caught Wilson." Not true! So your stats are wrong.
You said Roczen's tongue was dragging even though his times were really consistent. Being a half second or so slower towards the end of a race isn't indicative of fitness as much as it is of a deteriorating track.
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