Factory Edition VS. Works Edition

Bruce372 wrote:

I must be the only person that loves ktm bolts... I can take half the bike apart with a T30 torx screwdriver. I even swap out...

I must be the only person that loves ktm bolts... I can take half the bike apart with a T30 torx screwdriver. I even swap out the 8mm plain head bolts that come on tbe brembos.

Motofinne wrote:

The engines are pretty different to each other so i don't understand the "they're both really good, pick a color" argument. Want something hard hitting? Get...

The engines are pretty different to each other so i don't understand the "they're both really good, pick a color" argument. Want something hard hitting? Get the Honda. Want something smoother? Get the KTM. Nothing wrong with any of them, both are good but they're quite a bit different so flipping a coin between them doesn't make sense.

My own choice would be the KTM just because the smooth engine makes it one of the easiest 450 to ride. But some others want a more hard hitting engine like the Honda or Yamaha. Nothing wrong with that.

Motofinne wrote:

The engines are pretty different to each other so i don't understand the "they're both really good, pick a color" argument. Want something hard hitting? Get...

The engines are pretty different to each other so i don't understand the "they're both really good, pick a color" argument. Want something hard hitting? Get the Honda. Want something smoother? Get the KTM. Nothing wrong with any of them, both are good but they're quite a bit different so flipping a coin between them doesn't make sense.

My own choice would be the KTM just because the smooth engine makes it one of the easiest 450 to ride. But some others want a more hard hitting engine like the Honda or Yamaha. Nothing wrong with that.

H4L wrote:

From the ride reports that are currently out it appears that new 21 engine configuration provides a smoother power delivery. I know there is a noticeable...

From the ride reports that are currently out it appears that new 21 engine configuration provides a smoother power delivery. I know there is a noticeable difference between an 18 CRF450r in comparison to the 20 WE I now have.

H4L wrote:

After doing some research in 17 when I was considering a KTM I had a couple of bike shops in my area inform me of the...

After doing some research in 17 when I was considering a KTM I had a couple of bike shops in my area inform me of the quality & durability. They told me that they typically saw a ratio of 3 to 1 come in for service with the one being a Japanese brand.
Maybe that has changed, but going back to the 80’s they do seem to have made some strides in that area. I don’t believe the durability is still at the level of the Japanese brand though.

Racer_336 wrote:

Yes, I’ve been looking at whose had both. I had a 2019 WE. I’ve pretty much been Honda for the most part. I was just comparing...

Yes, I’ve been looking at whose had both. I had a 2019 WE. I’ve pretty much been Honda for the most part. I was just comparing the two myself from a physical standpoint. I haven’t ridden the KTM, but they are 1050.00 less than the Honda and seem to offer more. Brembo brakes, skid plate, triple clamps and wheel hubs and much better clutch basket than the Honda. All these things are not easily ignored. The ONLY thing I know I don’t like about the KTM is the left side number plate that is big enough for 3 foot tall numbers. 😂😂

hypermoto wrote:

Crazyyy that every single magazine and tester talks about KTM reliability and durability being the gold standard. I know a particular AMA national privateer that got...

Crazyyy that every single magazine and tester talks about KTM reliability and durability being the gold standard. I know a particular AMA national privateer that got 200 hours on a 250SXF bottom end.

Furthermore, the 17+ Honda reliability issues have been well noted. Warped heads and grenaded bikes due to head gasket issues, starter motor cracking cases, electrical issues... my buddies even came with loose cam retainers. Destroyed that motor (2020)

That said, you next comment mentions you haven’t ridden the 21 WE like many of us have in this thread. The OP I believe wants opinions of guys that have.

Motofinne wrote:

The engines are pretty different to each other so i don't understand the "they're both really good, pick a color" argument. Want something hard hitting? Get...

The engines are pretty different to each other so i don't understand the "they're both really good, pick a color" argument. Want something hard hitting? Get the Honda. Want something smoother? Get the KTM. Nothing wrong with any of them, both are good but they're quite a bit different so flipping a coin between them doesn't make sense.

My own choice would be the KTM just because the smooth engine makes it one of the easiest 450 to ride. But some others want a more hard hitting engine like the Honda or Yamaha. Nothing wrong with that.

H4L wrote:

From the ride reports that are currently out it appears that new 21 engine configuration provides a smoother power delivery. I know there is a noticeable...

From the ride reports that are currently out it appears that new 21 engine configuration provides a smoother power delivery. I know there is a noticeable difference between an 18 CRF450r in comparison to the 20 WE I now have.

mxb2 wrote:

Stronger motor 18 or 20 WE?

stumpy823 wrote:

John of course we do we know what’s best. I’ve ridden the new Honda and Kawasaki and they are really good and rode a 20 Yamaha...

John of course we do we know what’s best. I’ve ridden the new Honda and Kawasaki and they are really good and rode a 20 Yamaha and I’d still take my 17 Ktm now that being said wife bought me a new Ktm 450 factory edition for Christmas so can’t wait until they come in

H4L wrote:

From the ride reports that are currently out it appears that new 21 engine configuration provides a smoother power delivery. I know there is a noticeable...

From the ride reports that are currently out it appears that new 21 engine configuration provides a smoother power delivery. I know there is a noticeable difference between an 18 CRF450r in comparison to the 20 WE I now have.

mxb2 wrote:

Stronger motor 18 or 20 WE?

H4L wrote:

The 18 R I had felt stronger than the 20 WE. The power delivery is smoother off the WE making it easier to ride for longer...

The 18 R I had felt stronger than the 20 WE. The power delivery is smoother off the WE making it easier to ride for longer motos. I talked to Chad at XPR about remapping the 18. He said he had some good maps to smooth the power, but I ended buying the 20 WE. I believe they make similar HP it’s the maps & the WE head + the Yosh system that make the difference.

hypermoto wrote:

Crazyyy that every single magazine and tester talks about KTM reliability and durability being the gold standard. I know a particular AMA national privateer that got...

Crazyyy that every single magazine and tester talks about KTM reliability and durability being the gold standard. I know a particular AMA national privateer that got 200 hours on a 250SXF bottom end.

Furthermore, the 17+ Honda reliability issues have been well noted. Warped heads and grenaded bikes due to head gasket issues, starter motor cracking cases, electrical issues... my buddies even came with loose cam retainers. Destroyed that motor (2020)

That said, you next comment mentions you haven’t ridden the 21 WE like many of us have in this thread. The OP I believe wants opinions of guys that have.

H4L wrote:

:lol: I’m going by facts that the shops provided. You really should move on as you appear to still be butt hurt.. Once again don’t be...

I’m going by facts that the shops provided. You really should move on as you appear to still be butt hurt.. Once again don’t be so sensitive..

yz133rider wrote:

Yes “facts” from shops, are never wrong. I’ve heard so much nonsense from shops it’s laughable.

Racer_336 wrote:

Yes, I’ve been looking at whose had both. I had a 2019 WE. I’ve pretty much been Honda for the most part. I was just comparing...

Yes, I’ve been looking at whose had both. I had a 2019 WE. I’ve pretty much been Honda for the most part. I was just comparing the two myself from a physical standpoint. I haven’t ridden the KTM, but they are 1050.00 less than the Honda and seem to offer more. Brembo brakes, skid plate, triple clamps and wheel hubs and much better clutch basket than the Honda. All these things are not easily ignored. The ONLY thing I know I don’t like about the KTM is the left side number plate that is big enough for 3 foot tall numbers. 😂😂

Racer_336 wrote:

Yes, I’ve been looking at whose had both. I had a 2019 WE. I’ve pretty much been Honda for the most part. I was just comparing...

Yes, I’ve been looking at whose had both. I had a 2019 WE. I’ve pretty much been Honda for the most part. I was just comparing the two myself from a physical standpoint. I haven’t ridden the KTM, but they are 1050.00 less than the Honda and seem to offer more. Brembo brakes, skid plate, triple clamps and wheel hubs and much better clutch basket than the Honda. All these things are not easily ignored. The ONLY thing I know I don’t like about the KTM is the left side number plate that is big enough for 3 foot tall numbers. 😂😂

Meister wrote:

Doesn't the 21 WE come with a hinson basket? How would the ktm basket be better? You mentioned skid plate too which comes on the we...

Doesn't the 21 WE come with a hinson basket? How would the ktm basket be better? You mentioned skid plate too which comes on the we. Unless I'm lacking comprehension this evening lol.. I've also come to a personal preference realization that billet clamps are over rated and add harshness. I don't sweat hubs to much either. I'm only sharing my opinion because I was faced with the similar decision having not ridden any 21. My last bike was a 17 crf. Had a 16 ktm before that. I originally had 4 bikes on my mind. Red, new redred, orange, green. Ultimately, in my brain, I'm afraid of air forks, regardless of the recent reports of the improvements, so I eliminated the austrian possibilities because I didn't want to have to do a conversion or replace forks. Ive also been a Honda guy with some mixed in of every brand but kx and husqvarna. I almost always felt more at home on jap bikes, specifically the hondas. Came down to red and green and I got a very comfortable deal offered on red. I also couldn't get anyone to give me a clear picture as to what the team green package offered other than possibly a rebate after sale. I was actually reaching for a reason to buy the kaw (as could be seen by another post I've made here) because in 26 years of racing I've never had kaws. Anyway, I wasn't even considering a WE until one fell in my lap, originally I was just considering the R. Ill pick my WE up Thursday from an out of state dealership that's treated me amazingly well.. I also considered what someone else mentioned about the ktm possibly being an "old model" next year as the crf will likely still be fresh.. I'm not good at keeping any bike for a long haul so resale is always something I ponder.. Let us know what you choose!

Racer_336 wrote:

Honda only comes with a Hinson clutch cover. That’s it.

Meister wrote:

Doesn't the 21 WE come with a hinson basket? How would the ktm basket be better? You mentioned skid plate too which comes on the we...

Doesn't the 21 WE come with a hinson basket? How would the ktm basket be better? You mentioned skid plate too which comes on the we. Unless I'm lacking comprehension this evening lol.. I've also come to a personal preference realization that billet clamps are over rated and add harshness. I don't sweat hubs to much either. I'm only sharing my opinion because I was faced with the similar decision having not ridden any 21. My last bike was a 17 crf. Had a 16 ktm before that. I originally had 4 bikes on my mind. Red, new redred, orange, green. Ultimately, in my brain, I'm afraid of air forks, regardless of the recent reports of the improvements, so I eliminated the austrian possibilities because I didn't want to have to do a conversion or replace forks. Ive also been a Honda guy with some mixed in of every brand but kx and husqvarna. I almost always felt more at home on jap bikes, specifically the hondas. Came down to red and green and I got a very comfortable deal offered on red. I also couldn't get anyone to give me a clear picture as to what the team green package offered other than possibly a rebate after sale. I was actually reaching for a reason to buy the kaw (as could be seen by another post I've made here) because in 26 years of racing I've never had kaws. Anyway, I wasn't even considering a WE until one fell in my lap, originally I was just considering the R. Ill pick my WE up Thursday from an out of state dealership that's treated me amazingly well.. I also considered what someone else mentioned about the ktm possibly being an "old model" next year as the crf will likely still be fresh.. I'm not good at keeping any bike for a long haul so resale is always something I ponder.. Let us know what you choose!

Racer_336 wrote:

Honda only comes with a Hinson clutch cover. That’s it.

Meister wrote:

I think that changes in 21 [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/27/468409/s1200_Screenshot_20201227_205022.jpg[/img]

I think that changes in 21

H4L wrote:

By your statement I guess those shops are wrong..

hypermoto wrote:

Here’s that Honda reliability you speak of
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNjWEIQPD84

H4L wrote:

By your statement I guess those shops are wrong..

hypermoto wrote:

Here’s that Honda reliability you speak of
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNjWEIQPD84

H4L wrote:

By your statement I guess those shops are wrong..

hypermoto wrote:

Here’s that Honda reliability you speak of
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNjWEIQPD84

Meister wrote:

Well, my 16 ktm did that to me twice.. So did my 17 honda.. shit can happen on any of these contraptions.

H4L wrote:

By your statement I guess those shops are wrong..

hypermoto wrote:

Here’s that Honda reliability you speak of
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNjWEIQPD84

H4L wrote:

After doing some research in 17 when I was considering a KTM I had a couple of bike shops in my area inform me of the...

After doing some research in 17 when I was considering a KTM I had a couple of bike shops in my area inform me of the quality & durability. They told me that they typically saw a ratio of 3 to 1 come in for service with the one being a Japanese brand.
Maybe that has changed, but going back to the 80’s they do seem to have made some strides in that area. I don’t believe the durability is still at the level of the Japanese brand though.

hypermoto wrote:

Crazyyy that every single magazine and tester talks about KTM reliability and durability being the gold standard. I know a particular AMA national privateer that got...

Crazyyy that every single magazine and tester talks about KTM reliability and durability being the gold standard. I know a particular AMA national privateer that got 200 hours on a 250SXF bottom end.

Furthermore, the 17+ Honda reliability issues have been well noted. Warped heads and grenaded bikes due to head gasket issues, starter motor cracking cases, electrical issues... my buddies even came with loose cam retainers. Destroyed that motor (2020)

That said, you next comment mentions you haven’t ridden the 21 WE like many of us have in this thread. The OP I believe wants opinions of guys that have.

H4L wrote:

After doing some research in 17 when I was considering a KTM I had a couple of bike shops in my area inform me of the...

After doing some research in 17 when I was considering a KTM I had a couple of bike shops in my area inform me of the quality & durability. They told me that they typically saw a ratio of 3 to 1 come in for service with the one being a Japanese brand.
Maybe that has changed, but going back to the 80’s they do seem to have made some strides in that area. I don’t believe the durability is still at the level of the Japanese brand though.

H4L wrote:

After doing some research in 17 when I was considering a KTM I had a couple of bike shops in my area inform me of the...

After doing some research in 17 when I was considering a KTM I had a couple of bike shops in my area inform me of the quality & durability. They told me that they typically saw a ratio of 3 to 1 come in for service with the one being a Japanese brand.
Maybe that has changed, but going back to the 80’s they do seem to have made some strides in that area. I don’t believe the durability is still at the level of the Japanese brand though.

Brent wrote:

....isn't durability on a dirt bike related to proper maintenance and upkeep? [u]Any[/u] brand that is in a shop for service can't be put into just...

....isn't durability on a dirt bike related to proper maintenance and upkeep?

Any brand that is in a shop for service can't be put into just one category, are you saying that all bikes in for service are due to manufacturer defects or poor workmanship? That sounds kind of arbitrary to me.

I've seen enough to know that there a fair amount of dirt bikes out there that are just abused and not maintained.