Safety improvements to work on in SX/MX

Johnny Ringo
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12/1/2020 10:47am
Viewsonic wrote:
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the...
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the wrecks, even the sport's own periodicals exploit wrecks on their front covers and in articles pretty regularly, I'm thinking of RacerX's front cover of Ferrandis punting Craig. The promoter's don't really cater the viewership of the races to people who actively race or motorcycle, that audience is too small, they need the crowd who slows when they see a wreck on the side of the road. The promoters showcase the danger and "daredevil" atmosphere, I don't know of any other pro sport that highlights or showcases participants injuries or the danger aspect as much as motocross/supercross.
Never seen a pro sport that show cases the hard hits? Ever heard of a little league called the NFL?
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Motoxdoc
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12/1/2020 10:53am
I haven't read the entire thread and maybe it has been mentioned, but IMO, more "Pulp-MX nets", better tough block placement and a professional flaggers association (PFA).
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Viewsonic
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12/1/2020 11:17am
Viewsonic wrote:
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the...
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the wrecks, even the sport's own periodicals exploit wrecks on their front covers and in articles pretty regularly, I'm thinking of RacerX's front cover of Ferrandis punting Craig. The promoter's don't really cater the viewership of the races to people who actively race or motorcycle, that audience is too small, they need the crowd who slows when they see a wreck on the side of the road. The promoters showcase the danger and "daredevil" atmosphere, I don't know of any other pro sport that highlights or showcases participants injuries or the danger aspect as much as motocross/supercross.
Never seen a pro sport that show cases the hard hits? Ever heard of a little league called the NFL?
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or supercross. So far as to fans and players both complaining the anti-injury rules are too constricting. The NFL may show good tackles in highlight reels, but motocross and supercross promoters and journalist showcase riders getting injured again and again, how many times have you seen Roczen's bone wrenching wrecks on a Supercross airing? RacerX's cover of Ferrandis punting Craig was a wreck that injured Craig, wasn't it? The NFL's focus is promoting it's athlete's athleticism, never that the sport is dangerous. Our sport's focus seems to showcase the danger, never the athleticism.
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wrc777
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12/1/2020 12:33pm
RCMXracing wrote:
This topic comes up all the time and I agree with virtually all the comments except pointing at 450’s as part of the problem. These are...
This topic comes up all the time and I agree with virtually all the comments except pointing at 450’s as part of the problem. These are race bikes, your throttle hand controls the acceleration and speed. If a rider can’t control himself then yes, consider a smaller displacement.

Different topic, but it’s possible that a 450 isn’t the optimal displacement for best lap times. Maybe something around 400cc’s? *shrug*, have to test. Out of a tight turn to a straight all the torque from bigger displacement that gives you that kick in the pants acceleration is always going to be faster. But if you can brake later and turn quicker on a smaller bike that might even things up. Very track dependent.
450s have been trending towards smoother, less violent bottom end for a while now. Keefer rode the factory Yamaha and said it has less hit than his stock YZ450F. I bet it revs to the moon though...
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The Shop

Johnny Ringo
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12/1/2020 12:38pm
Viewsonic wrote:
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the...
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the wrecks, even the sport's own periodicals exploit wrecks on their front covers and in articles pretty regularly, I'm thinking of RacerX's front cover of Ferrandis punting Craig. The promoter's don't really cater the viewership of the races to people who actively race or motorcycle, that audience is too small, they need the crowd who slows when they see a wreck on the side of the road. The promoters showcase the danger and "daredevil" atmosphere, I don't know of any other pro sport that highlights or showcases participants injuries or the danger aspect as much as motocross/supercross.
Never seen a pro sport that show cases the hard hits? Ever heard of a little league called the NFL?
Viewsonic wrote:
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or...
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or supercross. So far as to fans and players both complaining the anti-injury rules are too constricting. The NFL may show good tackles in highlight reels, but motocross and supercross promoters and journalist showcase riders getting injured again and again, how many times have you seen Roczen's bone wrenching wrecks on a Supercross airing? RacerX's cover of Ferrandis punting Craig was a wreck that injured Craig, wasn't it? The NFL's focus is promoting it's athlete's athleticism, never that the sport is dangerous. Our sport's focus seems to showcase the danger, never the athleticism.
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight reels? Pull your head out
EngIceDave
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12/1/2020 1:05pm Edited Date/Time 12/1/2020 1:06pm
A billion years ago when we raced the push motorcycles with stone wheels, it was a lot harder to keep the 2 strokes going fast...keeping up the momentum on the 125's and the 250's had more power, but it was still harder to go fast.

Four strokes make it way to easy to go very very fast and jump very big stuff.

Easy for inexperienced riders to do incredibly stupid things.

I am also one of those weirdo's who believes the spinning mass of a four stroke is way different and a cause of many nasty crashes, but not sure you can fix that.

My point is, I am not anti-four stroke, but we do need to figure out a way to slow them up. Pipe won't do it, because Pro Circuit makes millions on selling pipes. It has to be internal, like gearing. Anything beyond that can be manipulated. Either that or the engine sizes need to go down. Maybe a 200 and a 300. That would slow things up.

One thing about racing, in old days, fan could easily tell a 125 from a 250 just by the sound, and they knew the 250 was the bigger engine, it sounded like it.
Can't say that today. Average fan couldn't tell you which is which, a 250 or 450, and that is after you explain the plate colors.

In other racing businesses, the sanction and OEM's work together to create rules
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RCMXracing
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12/1/2020 2:09pm
EngIceDave wrote:
A billion years ago when we raced the push motorcycles with stone wheels, it was a lot harder to keep the 2 strokes going fast...keeping up...
A billion years ago when we raced the push motorcycles with stone wheels, it was a lot harder to keep the 2 strokes going fast...keeping up the momentum on the 125's and the 250's had more power, but it was still harder to go fast.

Four strokes make it way to easy to go very very fast and jump very big stuff.

Easy for inexperienced riders to do incredibly stupid things.

I am also one of those weirdo's who believes the spinning mass of a four stroke is way different and a cause of many nasty crashes, but not sure you can fix that.

My point is, I am not anti-four stroke, but we do need to figure out a way to slow them up. Pipe won't do it, because Pro Circuit makes millions on selling pipes. It has to be internal, like gearing. Anything beyond that can be manipulated. Either that or the engine sizes need to go down. Maybe a 200 and a 300. That would slow things up.

One thing about racing, in old days, fan could easily tell a 125 from a 250 just by the sound, and they knew the 250 was the bigger engine, it sounded like it.
Can't say that today. Average fan couldn't tell you which is which, a 250 or 450, and that is after you explain the plate colors.

In other racing businesses, the sanction and OEM's work together to create rules
Agree to disagree on slowing bikes. (Didn’t thumbs down you BTW).

“Easy for inexperienced riders to do incredibly stupid things.” Agree! They shouldn’t be on bikes they can’t handle.

It is true and not weird that the engine inertia, gyroscopic effect of swinging a bigger piston has a huge effect.
wrc777
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12/1/2020 2:09pm
Restrictor plates could slow down a four stroke but go too far and the 250 will be the same power as a 450.
early
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12/1/2020 2:13pm
Supercross could go to a spec tire with smaller knobs and harder compound.
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EngIceDave
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12/1/2020 2:55pm
early wrote:
Supercross could go to a spec tire with smaller knobs and harder compound.
But what about local racing, where the real problems lie?
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Viewsonic
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12/1/2020 3:07pm
Never seen a pro sport that show cases the hard hits? Ever heard of a little league called the NFL?
Viewsonic wrote:
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or...
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or supercross. So far as to fans and players both complaining the anti-injury rules are too constricting. The NFL may show good tackles in highlight reels, but motocross and supercross promoters and journalist showcase riders getting injured again and again, how many times have you seen Roczen's bone wrenching wrecks on a Supercross airing? RacerX's cover of Ferrandis punting Craig was a wreck that injured Craig, wasn't it? The NFL's focus is promoting it's athlete's athleticism, never that the sport is dangerous. Our sport's focus seems to showcase the danger, never the athleticism.
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight...
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight reels? Pull your head out
You are wildly missing the point. The topic is the safety of pro motocross and supercross. My point is the promoters of the sport of motocross/supercross sell the danger and likelihood of injury to participants, therefore they see no reason to make the sport safer. I believe they are the only major sport to promote the participants element of danger to the extent they do. If you believe pro football and hockey blatantly promote videos of participants getting injured as much as pro motocross that is your opinion, not mine, but it does not deny that motocross/supercross promotors use danger/injuries to sell tickets and tv airtime. The point is the promoters of supercross/motocross want the sport to appear dangerous, it is one of the main ways of how they sell it.
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Viewsonic
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12/1/2020 3:17pm
Never seen a pro sport that show cases the hard hits? Ever heard of a little league called the NFL?
Viewsonic wrote:
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or...
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or supercross. So far as to fans and players both complaining the anti-injury rules are too constricting. The NFL may show good tackles in highlight reels, but motocross and supercross promoters and journalist showcase riders getting injured again and again, how many times have you seen Roczen's bone wrenching wrecks on a Supercross airing? RacerX's cover of Ferrandis punting Craig was a wreck that injured Craig, wasn't it? The NFL's focus is promoting it's athlete's athleticism, never that the sport is dangerous. Our sport's focus seems to showcase the danger, never the athleticism.
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight...
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight reels? Pull your head out
Perhaps I misunderstood your response, you are for the promoters of supercross/motocross exploiting riders injuries because you think other sports do? You want them to show highlight reels again and again of Roczen's, or Henry's wrecks? Because the NFL or pro Hockey show impacts you want motocross/supercross to show riders getting injured/brain damaged/paralyzed? To up the game perhaps, show how much more "gnarly" motocross/supercross is than other sports? Is that your point? Kind of gruesome and macabre isn't it?
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early
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12/1/2020 4:12pm
early wrote:
Supercross could go to a spec tire with smaller knobs and harder compound.
EngIceDave wrote:
But what about local racing, where the real problems lie?
Maybe bypass lines to avoid big jumps for vet and kids classes?
3
Johnny Depp
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12/1/2020 4:49pm
early wrote:
Supercross could go to a spec tire with smaller knobs and harder compound.
EngIceDave wrote:
But what about local racing, where the real problems lie?
early wrote:
Maybe bypass lines to avoid big jumps for vet and kids classes?
Really has potential. Lot's of modern tracks have a water truck lane on one or both sides.
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BobPA
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12/1/2020 4:56pm
EngIceDave wrote:
A billion years ago when we raced the push motorcycles with stone wheels, it was a lot harder to keep the 2 strokes going fast...keeping up...
A billion years ago when we raced the push motorcycles with stone wheels, it was a lot harder to keep the 2 strokes going fast...keeping up the momentum on the 125's and the 250's had more power, but it was still harder to go fast.

Four strokes make it way to easy to go very very fast and jump very big stuff.

Easy for inexperienced riders to do incredibly stupid things.

I am also one of those weirdo's who believes the spinning mass of a four stroke is way different and a cause of many nasty crashes, but not sure you can fix that.

My point is, I am not anti-four stroke, but we do need to figure out a way to slow them up. Pipe won't do it, because Pro Circuit makes millions on selling pipes. It has to be internal, like gearing. Anything beyond that can be manipulated. Either that or the engine sizes need to go down. Maybe a 200 and a 300. That would slow things up.

One thing about racing, in old days, fan could easily tell a 125 from a 250 just by the sound, and they knew the 250 was the bigger engine, it sounded like it.
Can't say that today. Average fan couldn't tell you which is which, a 250 or 450, and that is after you explain the plate colors.

In other racing businesses, the sanction and OEM's work together to create rules
250 lap times are close to 450 lap times as is, how would a 300 make a noticable difference in speed?

Pretty sure most spectators who ride can tell the difference between a 250 and 450 sounds...Not sure where you are going with that one.

I do not think slowing the bikes down is the answer. How slow would you have to make them to be safe? Herlings broke his femur on an 85. Plenty of injuries on 125's as well. It just comes down to "it is what it is". We aren't surrounded by a carbon fiber cocoon, and there are no roll bars protecting us. Some track changes can help, no doubt. But, a lot of the injuries do not even occur on big jumps..take away the jumps, you take away alot of the fun for alot of people. I quit going to a bunch of tracks because they took all the fun jumps away.
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Motodave15
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12/1/2020 5:39pm
Viewsonic wrote:
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the...
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the wrecks, even the sport's own periodicals exploit wrecks on their front covers and in articles pretty regularly, I'm thinking of RacerX's front cover of Ferrandis punting Craig. The promoter's don't really cater the viewership of the races to people who actively race or motorcycle, that audience is too small, they need the crowd who slows when they see a wreck on the side of the road. The promoters showcase the danger and "daredevil" atmosphere, I don't know of any other pro sport that highlights or showcases participants injuries or the danger aspect as much as motocross/supercross.
UFC/bareknuckle fighting etc..
You ever seen thrashers skateboard magazine? Gnarly graphic ass slams... Same with skate videos etc shit even some contest footage too.
Viewsonic
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12/2/2020 4:10am
Viewsonic wrote:
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the...
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the wrecks, even the sport's own periodicals exploit wrecks on their front covers and in articles pretty regularly, I'm thinking of RacerX's front cover of Ferrandis punting Craig. The promoter's don't really cater the viewership of the races to people who actively race or motorcycle, that audience is too small, they need the crowd who slows when they see a wreck on the side of the road. The promoters showcase the danger and "daredevil" atmosphere, I don't know of any other pro sport that highlights or showcases participants injuries or the danger aspect as much as motocross/supercross.
Motodave15 wrote:
UFC/bareknuckle fighting etc.. You ever seen thrashers skateboard magazine? Gnarly graphic ass slams... Same with skate videos etc shit even some contest footage too.
UFC/bareknuckle fighting etc..
You ever seen thrashers skateboard magazine? Gnarly graphic ass slams... Same with skate videos etc shit even some contest footage too.
I would have never thought there was so many people in the "like to watch riders get hurt" category. This explains why promoters won't make the sport safe, people like to watch crashes.
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cloud41
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12/2/2020 4:32am Edited Date/Time 12/2/2020 4:32am
I think the local tracks (non-national) need to build the jumps bigger and stop taming everything down, or at least have options for those who want to go bigger. An 85 shouldn’t be able to clear every jump. These tracks become boring unless everything else is spectacular. This also separates the C from A/B riders and makes practicing more safe.
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Motofinne
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12/2/2020 5:01am Edited Date/Time 12/2/2020 5:02am
cloud41 wrote:
I think the local tracks (non-national) need to build the jumps bigger and stop taming everything down, or at least have options for those who want...
I think the local tracks (non-national) need to build the jumps bigger and stop taming everything down, or at least have options for those who want to go bigger. An 85 shouldn’t be able to clear every jump. These tracks become boring unless everything else is spectacular. This also separates the C from A/B riders and makes practicing more safe.
This is interesting because you're right. It completely differs regionally but i can use little Finland as an example. Jumps were much, much bigger (and especially steeper equaling way more air time) 10-20 years ago. I remember as a kid racing 85cc bikes where everyone was talking about which jumps on the track you jumped in the practice and qualifying sessions. It was a big deal to make the jumps. At almost all the tracks there were jumps that even the best 85cc rider in the country struggled with.
Nowadays everyone makes them on a 85cc unless you're a beginner or a slower rider. But almost all of the riders racing seriously makes them.

Same with big bike races. Jumps are tiny or very, very easy with no steep faces at all. Except last year at one of the races where the jumps were more old school and in my opinion better. There was a shit ton of complaints regarding the jumps being too sketchy.

So here in Finland there isn't an issue with big jumps, quite the opposite. People here have forgotten how to jump or have too big of an ego that they can't accept to just roll the jump if it feels too sketchy. The solution that these people speak for are tamed down obstacles that ruins it for everyone else with the skills and balls to jump the damn jumps.

#RantOver
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EngIceDave
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12/2/2020 5:21am
The line every promoter hates....

"This also separates the C from A/B riders "

Can be said by C riders as well as the A/B riders, even mini riders, and what it really means is "You will NEVER make me happy."

No offense to anyone, but just think about it from the promoter's standpoint for a moment.
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Johnny Ringo
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12/2/2020 5:38am Edited Date/Time 12/2/2020 5:57am
Viewsonic wrote:
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the...
I wouldn't be certain the promoters of pro racing care about the injuries of the riders. Every ad or promotion of an upcoming event showcases the wrecks, even the sport's own periodicals exploit wrecks on their front covers and in articles pretty regularly, I'm thinking of RacerX's front cover of Ferrandis punting Craig. The promoter's don't really cater the viewership of the races to people who actively race or motorcycle, that audience is too small, they need the crowd who slows when they see a wreck on the side of the road. The promoters showcase the danger and "daredevil" atmosphere, I don't know of any other pro sport that highlights or showcases participants injuries or the danger aspect as much as motocross/supercross.
Motodave15 wrote:
UFC/bareknuckle fighting etc.. You ever seen thrashers skateboard magazine? Gnarly graphic ass slams... Same with skate videos etc shit even some contest footage too.
UFC/bareknuckle fighting etc..
You ever seen thrashers skateboard magazine? Gnarly graphic ass slams... Same with skate videos etc shit even some contest footage too.
Viewsonic wrote:
I would have never thought there was so many people in the "like to watch riders get hurt" category. This explains why promoters won't make the...
I would have never thought there was so many people in the "like to watch riders get hurt" category. This explains why promoters won't make the sport safe, people like to watch crashes.
Why would the promoter want it’s star riders hurt. No one will watch if the top guys are out.

And Craig was not hurt in the ferrandis deal. So who cares.
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Viewsonic
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12/2/2020 6:34am
Never seen a pro sport that show cases the hard hits? Ever heard of a little league called the NFL?
Viewsonic wrote:
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or...
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or supercross. So far as to fans and players both complaining the anti-injury rules are too constricting. The NFL may show good tackles in highlight reels, but motocross and supercross promoters and journalist showcase riders getting injured again and again, how many times have you seen Roczen's bone wrenching wrecks on a Supercross airing? RacerX's cover of Ferrandis punting Craig was a wreck that injured Craig, wasn't it? The NFL's focus is promoting it's athlete's athleticism, never that the sport is dangerous. Our sport's focus seems to showcase the danger, never the athleticism.
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight...
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight reels? Pull your head out
Pretty certain that previous post from you, was you stating you like to watch people get hurt and injured. If not you, then you used it as an example of other people enjoying people getting injured and promoters exploiting injuries. If not please explain the point of the post? In one post you say big hits in the NFL and fights in hockey are popular, but in the next post you say nobody wants anyone hurt, which is it?































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Johnny Ringo
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12/2/2020 6:40am Edited Date/Time 12/2/2020 6:42am
Viewsonic wrote:
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or...
The NFL certainly does not show case player injuries, and if anything they have been far more proactive to reduce participants injuries than pro motocross or supercross. So far as to fans and players both complaining the anti-injury rules are too constricting. The NFL may show good tackles in highlight reels, but motocross and supercross promoters and journalist showcase riders getting injured again and again, how many times have you seen Roczen's bone wrenching wrecks on a Supercross airing? RacerX's cover of Ferrandis punting Craig was a wreck that injured Craig, wasn't it? The NFL's focus is promoting it's athlete's athleticism, never that the sport is dangerous. Our sport's focus seems to showcase the danger, never the athleticism.
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight...
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight reels? Pull your head out
Viewsonic wrote:
Pretty certain that previous post from you, was you stating you like to watch people get hurt and injured. If not you, then you used it...
Pretty certain that previous post from you, was you stating you like to watch people get hurt and injured. If not you, then you used it as an example of other people enjoying people getting injured and promoters exploiting injuries. If not please explain the point of the post? In one post you say big hits in the NFL and fights in hockey are popular, but in the next post you say nobody wants anyone hurt, which is it?































If you thought my post was saying I like seeing people get hurt than you need to take a reading comprehension class. I was only pointing out that our sport isn’t the only one that shows the “big hits” in highlight reels. Just because they show the footage doesn’t mean they want people hurt. That’s an extremely basic way of looking at it.
If you think the promoters were excited when Ken crashed because they have new footage, then you are an idiot.
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Viewsonic
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12/2/2020 6:55am
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight...
Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined by Kam Chancellor on sports center. How many hockey fights do you see on highlight reels? Pull your head out
Viewsonic wrote:
Pretty certain that previous post from you, was you stating you like to watch people get hurt and injured. If not you, then you used it...
Pretty certain that previous post from you, was you stating you like to watch people get hurt and injured. If not you, then you used it as an example of other people enjoying people getting injured and promoters exploiting injuries. If not please explain the point of the post? In one post you say big hits in the NFL and fights in hockey are popular, but in the next post you say nobody wants anyone hurt, which is it?































If you thought my post was saying I like seeing people get hurt than you need to take a reading comprehension class. I was only pointing...
If you thought my post was saying I like seeing people get hurt than you need to take a reading comprehension class. I was only pointing out that our sport isn’t the only one that shows the “big hits” in highlight reels. Just because they show the footage doesn’t mean they want people hurt. That’s an extremely basic way of looking at it.
If you think the promoters were excited when Ken crashed because they have new footage, then you are an idiot.
"Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined" is not enjoying it? Who forced you to watch "how many times"? So now you state our sport's promoters want big hit highlight reels to ape other successful sports, but to do it safely? What exactly is your point, is that it? Are you stating they didn't show Roczen's bone crushing wreck over and over again during televised races, did you watch that "how many times"? We would fast forward through it, it was ghoulish.
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EngIceDave
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12/2/2020 7:07am
People watched Evel Knievel to see him crash, not make it.

That's the truth
PK97
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12/2/2020 7:29am
An observation from an old school guy:

As SX matured in the mid to late 1980's, it became spectator centric and that meant pleasing the crowds with big double and triple jumps and rhythm sections. This has progressed into todays outdoor tracks following the same set-up.

Motocross has morphed into just being about jumps and the main skillset to be good at and succeed. True not everywhere can be built on natural terrain. We didn't have hills in Florida but did have jumps and man made mounds for jumps. As previously stated in posts, the obstacles and track designs used to be the corners (not squaring very turn), sweeping berms, off camber turns, whoops that developed from braking and throttle, as yes jumps. Tracks were not groomed between motos, the track was smooth in the morning before practice and became rough and challenging as the day progressed.

Yes, things evolve and times change but not always for the better. People got hurt back then as well but the risk level was certainly not as high as today with flying higher and father to clear multiple jumps at a time. Maybe getting back to some of the basics at the local level would make it more appealing to some who consider it too risky and may in turn reduce injuries, as well as increasing safety equipment for riders.

People have posted some interesting perspectives in this thread as to safety, track designs and ways forward.

Just my opinion.

Viewsonic
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12/2/2020 7:37am
EngIceDave wrote:
People watched Evel Knievel to see him crash, not make it.

That's the truth
Exactly
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js451
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12/2/2020 8:07am
Somehow we need the dirt to breakdown less so there is less ruts. The obstacles they ride would be acceptable and racing would be cleaner if there was less ruts/ track break down. The soft dirt and powerful 450’s combination is too much.

Some way of preventing the dirt from brEaking down or an artificial surface maybe?
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USA
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Fantasy
12/2/2020 8:11am
Viewsonic wrote:
Pretty certain that previous post from you, was you stating you like to watch people get hurt and injured. If not you, then you used it...
Pretty certain that previous post from you, was you stating you like to watch people get hurt and injured. If not you, then you used it as an example of other people enjoying people getting injured and promoters exploiting injuries. If not please explain the point of the post? In one post you say big hits in the NFL and fights in hockey are popular, but in the next post you say nobody wants anyone hurt, which is it?































If you thought my post was saying I like seeing people get hurt than you need to take a reading comprehension class. I was only pointing...
If you thought my post was saying I like seeing people get hurt than you need to take a reading comprehension class. I was only pointing out that our sport isn’t the only one that shows the “big hits” in highlight reels. Just because they show the footage doesn’t mean they want people hurt. That’s an extremely basic way of looking at it.
If you think the promoters were excited when Ken crashed because they have new footage, then you are an idiot.
Viewsonic wrote:
"Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined" is not enjoying it? Who forced you to watch "how many times"? So now you...
"Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined" is not enjoying it? Who forced you to watch "how many times"? So now you state our sport's promoters want big hit highlight reels to ape other successful sports, but to do it safely? What exactly is your point, is that it? Are you stating they didn't show Roczen's bone crushing wreck over and over again during televised races, did you watch that "how many times"? We would fast forward through it, it was ghoulish.
You're doing a fantastic troll job, so I cant believe I'm replying; but, your original argument was that no other sport shows bad impacts and injuries, which is wrong. And then you said that the NFL highlights athleticism and moto promoters do not. Using your example of Christian Craig, multiple times on the broadcast they have shown his current heart rate and talked about his athleticism. Highlighting how in shape and athletic these guys are is definitely going on.

Now that Johnny Ringo Motodave15 have proven you wrong, you change your argument to 'You enjoy that in other sports which means I'm right'. Which, frankly, doesn't make sense. Unless you're just trying to have a narrow view about your own statements about moto being the only dangerous sport with injuries that people talk about while ignoring that you are using the counter-argument that disproves that.

I don't think anyone wants to see anyone else get hurt. Many sports have an inherent danger, not just moto. When a star is knocked out from any sport, you will see the media cover it. Your entire argument is flawed. Have you ever heard a single story about Jessy Nelson's crash on the broadcasts? How about Killian Auberson or Tevin Tapia? They were hurt much worse than Roczen, but the promoters aren't using it to 'sell butts in the seats'.

Yes, fantastic troll job.
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Viewsonic
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12/2/2020 8:31am
If you thought my post was saying I like seeing people get hurt than you need to take a reading comprehension class. I was only pointing...
If you thought my post was saying I like seeing people get hurt than you need to take a reading comprehension class. I was only pointing out that our sport isn’t the only one that shows the “big hits” in highlight reels. Just because they show the footage doesn’t mean they want people hurt. That’s an extremely basic way of looking at it.
If you think the promoters were excited when Ken crashed because they have new footage, then you are an idiot.
Viewsonic wrote:
"Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined" is not enjoying it? Who forced you to watch "how many times"? So now you...
"Not sure how many times I saw Vernon Davis getting ruined" is not enjoying it? Who forced you to watch "how many times"? So now you state our sport's promoters want big hit highlight reels to ape other successful sports, but to do it safely? What exactly is your point, is that it? Are you stating they didn't show Roczen's bone crushing wreck over and over again during televised races, did you watch that "how many times"? We would fast forward through it, it was ghoulish.
USA wrote:
You're doing a fantastic troll job, so I cant believe I'm replying; but, your original argument was that no other sport shows bad impacts and injuries...
You're doing a fantastic troll job, so I cant believe I'm replying; but, your original argument was that no other sport shows bad impacts and injuries, which is wrong. And then you said that the NFL highlights athleticism and moto promoters do not. Using your example of Christian Craig, multiple times on the broadcast they have shown his current heart rate and talked about his athleticism. Highlighting how in shape and athletic these guys are is definitely going on.

Now that Johnny Ringo Motodave15 have proven you wrong, you change your argument to 'You enjoy that in other sports which means I'm right'. Which, frankly, doesn't make sense. Unless you're just trying to have a narrow view about your own statements about moto being the only dangerous sport with injuries that people talk about while ignoring that you are using the counter-argument that disproves that.

I don't think anyone wants to see anyone else get hurt. Many sports have an inherent danger, not just moto. When a star is knocked out from any sport, you will see the media cover it. Your entire argument is flawed. Have you ever heard a single story about Jessy Nelson's crash on the broadcasts? How about Killian Auberson or Tevin Tapia? They were hurt much worse than Roczen, but the promoters aren't using it to 'sell butts in the seats'.

Yes, fantastic troll job.
My original argument was not that no other sport shows bad impacts, it was that mx/sx is much more pronounced in it than other sports, I genuinely can't think of another sport it is more pronounced . Not trying to troll, I've yet to be convinced that the promoters do not promote the dangerousness of the sport, I see it as obvious. Rather than name calling, and just saying I'm incorrect, state what the promoters have done to push track safety in recent years. Where have they been proactive in safety?
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