Has there really been no topic on the jmart/ferrandis crash?

charge
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charge 9/8/2020 5:20am
9/8/2020 5:20am
Ferrandis has these incidents because he has generally been the fastest rider in every race he’s been in for the past 2 years but is also a mind bogglingly bad starter. How can someone on that bike be so bad at starts?

Let’s be real guys. Ferrandis and JMart was probably more of a speed disparity than JMart and Jett
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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 9/8/2020 5:34am
9/8/2020 5:34am
MX690 wrote:
It's nothing more than a racing incident, sometimes shit just happens.
*Fini

jamma10
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jamma10 9/8/2020 5:48am
9/8/2020 5:48am
Charging through the pack with gritted teeth, spots a passing opportunity...


Feels he has the momentum and decides to commit to making the move down the inside...


Draws level but starts to get pinched as Martin fades across. Both bikes start kicking around on the breaking bumps, they nudge arms and go down.


Unlucky for both riders, especially Martin. But shit happens when you're racing hard for position.

Ferrandis is great.
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jamma10
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jamma10 9/8/2020 5:54am
9/8/2020 5:54am
Ferrandis should have listened to Emig's 'Keys to the Race'!
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Antonioni
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Antonioni 9/8/2020 5:57am
9/8/2020 5:57am
Ray_MXS wrote:
VitalMX: Barcia racing aggressive and passing people without anyone going down - [b]Barcia riding like an idiot etc etc[/b] Ferrandis racing aggressive and passing people, taking...
VitalMX:

Barcia racing aggressive and passing people without anyone going down - Barcia riding like an idiot etc etc

Ferrandis racing aggressive and passing people, taking them and himself out - Racing incidents!
"without anyone going down" Do not elude that Barcia has a huge liability of dirty takeouts.

Also it would have been Barcia instead of Ferrandis, JMartin wouldn't have narrow the line as much. Barcia at your inside (even more if he is faster) ? Absolutely nobody insist. Currently they even relinquish the line to Barcia (look back at the last couple of examples...). Nowadays, others riders fear Barcia, thus they almost always let him pass.

With Ferrandis, amongst others it's the inverse (even with his teammates).

Both are naturally aggressive riders, but there is a significant difference between Barcia and Ferrandis.
Barcia acts like that while he knows perfectly what he is doing, at purpose, cold blood offensive behavior. Even when he is slower. For him the ending by a takeout of the other rider, don't matter, in a way it's enjoyable for him.
Whereas Ferrandis really don't want of a takeout ending. It comes while he is faster, and mainly because he lost his self-control, and he execute his pass with frank clumsiness.

More generally, Ferrandis isn't an innocent but for some (a lot?) there is a huge lack of moderation when they judge the behavior of the French on racetrack. They become irrational, at least they are so biaised.
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NoonMoon
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NoonMoon 9/8/2020 6:02am
9/8/2020 6:02am
bh84 wrote:
I think what a lot of people are saying is that if you look at each incident with DF individually in a vaccum, most of them...
I think what a lot of people are saying is that if you look at each incident with DF individually in a vaccum, most of them are just “racing incidents” but at what point do we acknowledge that these “racing incidents” are beginning be become a habit for him?
And...?

He races hard and has tremendous corner speed.

What is your point?
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nealb129
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nealb129 9/8/2020 6:03am
9/8/2020 6:03am
bh84 wrote:
I think what a lot of people are saying is that if you look at each incident with DF individually in a vaccum, most of them...
I think what a lot of people are saying is that if you look at each incident with DF individually in a vaccum, most of them are just “racing incidents” but at what point do we acknowledge that these “racing incidents” are beginning be become a habit for him?
Aside from this incident and the Christian Craig incident. How many others are there? I’ve been halfway paying attention to the 250 class the last 3 or 4 years so maybe I have missed them.
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jamma10
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jamma10 9/8/2020 6:15am
9/8/2020 6:15am
bh84 wrote:
I think what a lot of people are saying is that if you look at each incident with DF individually in a vaccum, most of them...
I think what a lot of people are saying is that if you look at each incident with DF individually in a vaccum, most of them are just “racing incidents” but at what point do we acknowledge that these “racing incidents” are beginning be become a habit for him?
nealb129 wrote:
Aside from this incident and the Christian Craig incident. How many others are there? I’ve been halfway paying attention to the 250 class the last 3...
Aside from this incident and the Christian Craig incident. How many others are there? I’ve been halfway paying attention to the 250 class the last 3 or 4 years so maybe I have missed them.
There wasn’t even that much wrong with the Craig incident, it just looked spectacular.
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bh84
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bh84 9/8/2020 6:28am
9/8/2020 6:28am
bh84 wrote:
I think what a lot of people are saying is that if you look at each incident with DF individually in a vaccum, most of them...
I think what a lot of people are saying is that if you look at each incident with DF individually in a vaccum, most of them are just “racing incidents” but at what point do we acknowledge that these “racing incidents” are beginning be become a habit for him?
nealb129 wrote:
Aside from this incident and the Christian Craig incident. How many others are there? I’ve been halfway paying attention to the 250 class the last 3...
Aside from this incident and the Christian Craig incident. How many others are there? I’ve been halfway paying attention to the 250 class the last 3 or 4 years so maybe I have missed them.
Noiced it a lot throughout SX. He rarely passes someone without hitting them. On Friday he pulled into traffic taking one bike down and IIRC took another rider down a couple laps later. Like I said, its a collection of racing incidents, they aren't spectacular dirty takeouts(Except the Cristian Craig one, and hitting JL's swingarm later in the same race) but when its the same guy having these racing incidents over and over it becomes annoying to watch.

I chalk it up to being the fastest guy on the track and being frustrated with bad starts. He rides just that little bit past the ragged edge and doesn't have enough respect for his opponents while doing it. In the end i think it will hurt him more than it helps, just like it did on Monday.
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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 9/8/2020 6:29am
9/8/2020 6:29am
I'd do the same to any one of you given the opportunity to snatch that cheap plastic trophy from your hands
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crowe660
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crowe660 9/8/2020 6:34am
9/8/2020 6:34am
EngIceDave wrote:
I'd do the same to any one of you given the opportunity to snatch that cheap plastic trophy from your hands
I used to run bark busters. I’d roll into that first turn like the fridge in a goal line situation.
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Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 9/8/2020 6:41am
9/8/2020 6:41am
In my opinion, if a guy is coming up on you that is way faster (and you know is way faster) and you engage in riding defensive to try to hold him up and block his lines then you forfeit your right to bitch when he moves you out of the way or you both get parked. I would think a smart move to make would be to just let the dude go by and try to latch onto the back of him and see what lines he's taking that's giving him a 1-2 second advantage. How many seconds faster was he than everyone else in qualifying? If that dude is on your ass with more than half the moto left, you're not going to keep him behind you so instead of blowing your wad trying to block and keep him behind you and risking a crash, let him go by and see what he's doing different, march up to the front with him and mount an attack late moto.



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Brad460
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Brad460 9/8/2020 6:44am
9/8/2020 6:44am
All I know is...if I was racing anyone in this thread I’d run you off into a pond if it meant I could pass you.
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fatpurplepanda 9/8/2020 6:49am
9/8/2020 6:49am
Fourth_Floor wrote:
In my opinion, if a guy is coming up on you that is way faster (and you know is way faster) and you engage in riding...
In my opinion, if a guy is coming up on you that is way faster (and you know is way faster) and you engage in riding defensive to try to hold him up and block his lines then you forfeit your right to bitch when he moves you out of the way or you both get parked. I would think a smart move to make would be to just let the dude go by and try to latch onto the back of him and see what lines he's taking that's giving him a 1-2 second advantage. How many seconds faster was he than everyone else in qualifying? If that dude is on your ass with more than half the moto left, you're not going to keep him behind you so instead of blowing your wad trying to block and keep him behind you and risking a crash, let him go by and see what he's doing different, march up to the front with him and mount an attack late moto.



it's a race, not just qualifying laps. absolutely no reason to just move over because someone is faster
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 9/8/2020 6:53am
9/8/2020 6:53am
I think some of you guys need to pick up golf. That's more up your alley.
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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 9/8/2020 6:53am
9/8/2020 6:53am
Fourth_Floor wrote:
In my opinion, if a guy is coming up on you that is way faster (and you know is way faster) and you engage in riding...
In my opinion, if a guy is coming up on you that is way faster (and you know is way faster) and you engage in riding defensive to try to hold him up and block his lines then you forfeit your right to bitch when he moves you out of the way or you both get parked. I would think a smart move to make would be to just let the dude go by and try to latch onto the back of him and see what lines he's taking that's giving him a 1-2 second advantage. How many seconds faster was he than everyone else in qualifying? If that dude is on your ass with more than half the moto left, you're not going to keep him behind you so instead of blowing your wad trying to block and keep him behind you and risking a crash, let him go by and see what he's doing different, march up to the front with him and mount an attack late moto.



This is a dude who's taken a few gates
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Goon645
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Goon645 9/8/2020 6:53am
9/8/2020 6:53am
The bias in this forum never ceases to amaze me. As has been mentioned your American golden boy who is nicknamed after how boneheaded he rides (but never gets boo'd and is celebrated for his "tenacity" Wink ) makes a clearly reckless pass maybe 100 yards from the Ferrandis incident and there is hardly a word on it. Ferrandis makes a run up the inside and Martin doesn't give him an inch (good hard racing) and they both end up going down as neither one was willing to concede but there is a big uproar again over "decision making". If you're expecting 450 riders to give him issues I am going to enjoy watching the whining continue because the winning aint stopping when he moves up - you can stamp that.
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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 9/8/2020 6:56am
9/8/2020 6:56am
Brad460 wrote:
All I know is...if I was racing anyone in this thread I’d run you off into a pond if it meant I could pass you.
Man, I'd pull out a stick and jam it in your spokes in mid air

I've seen enough movies to know how it goes.
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Antonioni
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Antonioni 9/8/2020 6:58am
9/8/2020 6:58am
bh84 wrote:
Noiced it a lot throughout SX. He rarely passes someone without hitting them. On Friday he pulled into traffic taking one bike down and IIRC took...
Noiced it a lot throughout SX. He rarely passes someone without hitting them. On Friday he pulled into traffic taking one bike down and IIRC took another rider down a couple laps later. Like I said, its a collection of racing incidents, they aren't spectacular dirty takeouts(Except the Cristian Craig one, and hitting JL's swingarm later in the same race) but when its the same guy having these racing incidents over and over it becomes annoying to watch.

I chalk it up to being the fastest guy on the track and being frustrated with bad starts. He rides just that little bit past the ragged edge and doesn't have enough respect for his opponents while doing it. In the end i think it will hurt him more than it helps, just like it did on Monday.
His amount of racing incidents is so largely overestimated, in quantity (considering that the last three years is by far the rider who achieve the most passing) and "quality".
That's the problem.
So much attention to those things when it's Ferrandis, while with the others riders often you don't pay attention or it's pretty quickly forgotten.

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bents
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bents 9/8/2020 7:08am
9/8/2020 7:08am
bents wrote:
Great question, and I thought that what happened earlier in the race had a huge impact on Jmart's day-when the #6 battled briefly with Jett, and...
Great question, and I thought that what happened earlier in the race had a huge impact on Jmart's day-when the #6 battled briefly with Jett, and Jett didn't let him by, he crashed with Ferrandis shortly after this. Jmart clearly had a better pace and I thought Jett should have let him through-if he had he wouldn't have tangled with Ferrandis and would have widened his points gap-Jmart had to be pissed with this.
NoonMoon wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting Lawrence should 'move over'?

He is fighting for position and championship points too.
Poorly phrased on my part-when JMart pulled beside Jett I thought he had the pass and Jett held firm as is his right as a racer, but lets also acknowledge that between Geico and Star there will be some team play going on here with this shortened series. Can't remember which of the Star guys made an easy pass available to a teammate as he charged through the pack in the 2nd moto. My point here is that Jmart is the guy in the hunt for the title and Jett is almost 100 points back. My point also is that for Jmart not to get through at that point in the end really hurt him as he would have been well clear of Ferrandis in that first moto and would have put more points on him too. I thought Jmart did leave the door open enough for Ferrandis to give it a go and I'm a fan of both. There will no doubt more team vs team racing moving forward.
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MxKing809
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MxKing809 9/8/2020 7:08am
9/8/2020 7:08am
I would like to know why this photo got deleted this morning from this thread:


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chaseodc
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chaseodc 9/8/2020 7:10am
9/8/2020 7:10am
I don't actually see where DF14 makes any contact before Jmart crashes. Looks like he didn't expect DF to be there and freaked out a bit and lost it.
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crowe660
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crowe660 9/8/2020 7:10am
9/8/2020 7:10am
Just curious. How many passes did DF14 make this weekend at Redbud?
EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 9/8/2020 7:12am
9/8/2020 7:12am
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/8/2020 7:13am
9/8/2020 7:13am
Ferrandis ran out of track forcing a bad move. Locked bars when he should have hit the brakes. Stupid rider racing incident. Took himself out but when it's your title rival, name calling is expected.
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DoctorJD
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DoctorJD 9/8/2020 7:15am
9/8/2020 7:15am
EngIceDave wrote:
I'd do the same to any one of you given the opportunity to snatch that cheap plastic trophy from your hands
Hell, I took out my own brother once......in practice. For no other reason other than I wanted to let him know who the alpha dog was.

Of course, he took me out (in a race) first chance he got. I deserved it.
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Detroit Dick
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Detroit Dick 9/8/2020 7:21am
9/8/2020 7:21am
J Mart just trying to get in Dylan's head. Get him thinking about shit more than he normally would, get him off his game.
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mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 9/8/2020 7:25am
9/8/2020 7:25am
Maybe J-Mart will learn from this and make sure he goes as far inside as he possibly can in the future. He left room for DF and DF went for it. Racing incident. Both guys want this title, but DF seems to be doing whatever he can to guarantee he gets it before moving to 450’s next year. Although his starts are horrendous. I’m pretty sure I could teach him a few things about starts.
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Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 9/8/2020 7:30am
9/8/2020 7:30am
Fourth_Floor wrote:
In my opinion, if a guy is coming up on you that is way faster (and you know is way faster) and you engage in riding...
In my opinion, if a guy is coming up on you that is way faster (and you know is way faster) and you engage in riding defensive to try to hold him up and block his lines then you forfeit your right to bitch when he moves you out of the way or you both get parked. I would think a smart move to make would be to just let the dude go by and try to latch onto the back of him and see what lines he's taking that's giving him a 1-2 second advantage. How many seconds faster was he than everyone else in qualifying? If that dude is on your ass with more than half the moto left, you're not going to keep him behind you so instead of blowing your wad trying to block and keep him behind you and risking a crash, let him go by and see what he's doing different, march up to the front with him and mount an attack late moto.



fatpurplepanda wrote:
it's a race, not just qualifying laps. absolutely no reason to just move over because someone is faster
I get that, but if a guy is 3-4 seconds a lap faster in qualifying, clearly he's figured something out on the track worth learning. Do you think Jeremy would've finished better than 11th if he made the pass for Dylan easy and just latched on to him for a few laps to see what Dylan was doing different? I get it if it's the last couple laps of the race but with more than half the moto left, there's no way he was keeping him behind him so why risk getting cleaned out so early knowing Dylan doesn't wait around for passes to happen.
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cjg23307
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cjg23307 9/8/2020 7:33am
9/8/2020 7:33am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Ferrandis ran out of track forcing a bad move. Locked bars when he should have hit the brakes. Stupid rider racing incident. Took himself out but...
Ferrandis ran out of track forcing a bad move. Locked bars when he should have hit the brakes. Stupid rider racing incident. Took himself out but when it's your title rival, name calling is expected.
I agree completely, was clearly faster could of made a safer pass somewhere else. Seems like he rushes passes and made a poor decision.
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