Moto photography

6/8/2020 4:38pm
rdawg427 wrote:
Alright thanks my man, I’ll check around. Do you know what the Nikon equivalent is to that setup?
I don't, but maybe a Nikon guy can chime in. I will say Canon always owned the sports market until recently, but the differences are just...
I don't, but maybe a Nikon guy can chime in. I will say Canon always owned the sports market until recently, but the differences are just splitting hairs now. I'm not sure if you will get any better bang for the buck than what I mentioned above. You would have a really good setup while learning and your gear won't be limiting you in any way.

If you end up getting the Canon setup PM me and I'll help you out with settings.
rdawg427 wrote:
Hey I just got everything, you mind helping me out a little with the settings. If done a few based on the Buckley forum.
I will shoot you a PM
rdawg427
Posts
100
Joined
2/13/2016
Location
Cobleskill, NY, USA
6/29/2020 4:16pm
Just a post showing some pictures from the second time at the track with the camera. Couldn't use it a whole lot since I had to ride as well.




4
rdawg427
Posts
100
Joined
2/13/2016
Location
Cobleskill, NY, USA
6/30/2020 6:39am
Those are really good. Nice job.

Are you familiar with Adobe Lightroom?
I know of it and plan on getting it at some point. I kind of wanted to just shoot jpeg and focus on learning how to get a good picture and manual exposure setting as I still struggle a bit with that first. But, it wouldn’t hurt to just get it and mess around a bit. I would definitely need to watch some videos to see even what to edit in the photo.

The Shop

rdawg427
Posts
100
Joined
2/13/2016
Location
Cobleskill, NY, USA
6/30/2020 6:40am
Those are really good. Nice job.

Are you familiar with Adobe Lightroom?
And thank you man I appreciate it!
1
6/30/2020 9:35am
Looking good. Are you using the settings I gave you? Looks like you need to bump up your ISO a bit.

And you mentioned manual exposure? Definitely don't go there. Use exposure compensation in AV mode if you want but don't go full manual and try to meter better than the camera does. I can't tell you how many so called "pros" think they need to shoot in full manual and they completely blow their exposures to the point they are not salvageable.
6/30/2020 9:38am
I used to snap for a smaller magazine and once got in a nice conversation with Joe Bonello (one of the true masters of MX photography). The question of lens choice came up and he made it clear that his go-to for any kind of track/action work was a 300mm telephoto (fixed glass). And, of course, it would always be "fast glass". I've lived by that rule since then, and have been happy with the results. While zoom lens offer flexibility, for digital applications the zoom always seems to lose any effectiveness in darker shadows. So it is zooms for pits and people pix, telephoto for the track.





rdawg427
Posts
100
Joined
2/13/2016
Location
Cobleskill, NY, USA
6/30/2020 10:55am
Looking good. Are you using the settings I gave you? Looks like you need to bump up your ISO a bit. And you mentioned manual exposure...
Looking good. Are you using the settings I gave you? Looks like you need to bump up your ISO a bit.

And you mentioned manual exposure? Definitely don't go there. Use exposure compensation in AV mode if you want but don't go full manual and try to meter better than the camera does. I can't tell you how many so called "pros" think they need to shoot in full manual and they completely blow their exposures to the point they are not salvageable.
I did the first time I used the camera and seemed to have more trouble than this time trying manual. I will definitely try it again and use that exposure compensation. I had the white balance set at cloudy so maybe that was why I just changed it to auto. Do you say I have to increase iso due to the darkness?
6/30/2020 11:06am
Looking good. Are you using the settings I gave you? Looks like you need to bump up your ISO a bit. And you mentioned manual exposure...
Looking good. Are you using the settings I gave you? Looks like you need to bump up your ISO a bit.

And you mentioned manual exposure? Definitely don't go there. Use exposure compensation in AV mode if you want but don't go full manual and try to meter better than the camera does. I can't tell you how many so called "pros" think they need to shoot in full manual and they completely blow their exposures to the point they are not salvageable.
rdawg427 wrote:
I did the first time I used the camera and seemed to have more trouble than this time trying manual. I will definitely try it again...
I did the first time I used the camera and seemed to have more trouble than this time trying manual. I will definitely try it again and use that exposure compensation. I had the white balance set at cloudy so maybe that was why I just changed it to auto. Do you say I have to increase iso due to the darkness?
White balance on cloudy is fine for a cloudy day which it was, and when you eventually shoot RAW your WB setting won't matter as much because you can adjust it in post.

I said to bump ISO because it looks like your shutter speed was a bit too slow. You can go for wheel motion blur if you want but your keeper rate will go down as you'll have more soft images.

I would stay away from full manual for now and learn the many other things you need to focus on instead of trying to dial in exposure. The camera will do it for you and do it better than you 90% of the time. Keep it in AV mode and bump EC 1/3 stop to the right on a cloudy day. Then just shoot and worry about aperture and keep an eye on your SS. If there's not enough light and SS becomes too slow bump up your ISO accordingly.
roddy409
Posts
40
Joined
7/5/2017
Location
DE
7/1/2020 12:48am Edited Date/Time 7/1/2020 12:57am
rdawg427 wrote:
Just a post showing some pictures from the second time at the track with the camera. Couldn't use it a whole lot since I had to...
Just a post showing some pictures from the second time at the track with the camera. Couldn't use it a whole lot since I had to ride as well.




rdawg247, you have a good eye for just starting out. Keep those backgrounds clean (like you are doing) and keep going. Reading over the advice here, I cannot recommend you take it all. If you really want to do photography, mastering the camera's controls and functions is unavoidable. Not only that, it is advantageous. So, by all means, begin with M as quickly as possible. The camera does not get exposure settings correct by itself. Rarely is that the case, in my experience. More relevant still, do you want the camera to make the photos, or do you want to make them?

Here is how I personally approach the track/scene:

ISO - as low as possible. ISO 100 (or less) produces the cleanest images with very little "grain" or noise. As you increase ISO, the sensitivity (to light) of the image sensor is increased. This allows fasters shutter speeds, but introduces more noise into the image. It is not a big deal if the images will never be printed or made really large. But if you will print, the lowest ISO will produce the finest prints. Only when it rains or is really dark do I increase ISO step-by-step (200, 400) to a max of, say, 800.
Aperture - What and how much will be in focus? Shallow focus or deep focus? Shallow focus means opening the aperture as wide as possible, e.g. f/2.8, f/2.0, etc. which creates those nice, blurry backgrounds. Deep focus means more of the scene will be in focus. For MX we are normally shooting wide open (e.g. f/2.8 or wider) and sometimes for really up-close work, starts or crowds we are stopping down the aperture to f/4, f/5.6 and in some rare cases, f/8.
Shutter speed - what is the right shutter speed for a balanced exposure in the current conditions? With a low ISO and Aperture setting, the shutter speed will be quite fast (1/3000 or 1/4000 in bright sun). This will stop all action in the frame including roost and tires. Experiment here with what you like best. Above we see some slight rotation in the wheels, which I think is actually nice, but not critical. But here we are wading into subjectivity...
White Balance - for now the Auto setting is probably the most reliable. I spent one whole season manually doing my white balance on track (with a grey card) with the available lighting, but I cannot honestly say it was better than the Auto.

Sportsshooter.com is a good resource. Read the portfolio reviews by the top guys and you will begin to see what they see.

But as I said, you have a natural eye so just keep shooting.
4
MrMJS
Posts
325
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Canton, OH, USA
7/1/2020 5:50am
A few recent images I took at the local MX track. I used a Canon 7D II with either the 70-200mm f/2.8 or 300mm f/4... As mentioned above getting a used 1D is good advice and good glass of course.








MrMJS
Posts
325
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Canton, OH, USA
7/1/2020 6:11am
As for settings, I always shoot in manual... widest available aperture, fast shutter speed [depending on the desired look] , and ISO on auto. I also shoot in RAW.
2
mmain62
Posts
714
Joined
2/7/2013
Location
Knoxville, IL, USA
7/1/2020 6:52am
Bought my wife a Canon Rebel and her moto pics are pretty damn good for her just snapping photos and not really focusing on the perfect picture.
mxrider641
Posts
569
Joined
4/5/2011
Location
Endicott, NY, USA
7/1/2020 7:02am
I have been fortunate to dabble in Moto Foto a bit so will throw in my .02 - I agree with the shoot in AV and adjust the exposure comp as required - very rarely do I go full manual (set ISO/Shutter/Aperture), sometimes when shooting into the sky/bright sun and usually get pretty good results. The only time I shoot raw is for weddings, and then its always on the second card as a back up - I am typically on some type of deadline and just not enough time to process. Fast glass is always a bonus, but requires some cash - did the Plessinger shot with my 100-400 at 5.6, K-dub was at F4 on my old 70-200 F4 before I could afford the 2.8 version. Two tips that were given to my that seem to apply - shoot tight/crop tighter, and watch your horizons, and of course have fun! the others were goofing around at a practice track.







1
7/1/2020 7:10am
FWYT wrote:
Didn't Buckley have a Q&A thread around here somewhere?
He did. Maybe you can pm him as I haven’t seen him post here in ages.
rdawg427
Posts
100
Joined
2/13/2016
Location
Cobleskill, NY, USA
7/1/2020 8:19am
rdawg427 wrote:
Just a post showing some pictures from the second time at the track with the camera. Couldn't use it a whole lot since I had to...
Just a post showing some pictures from the second time at the track with the camera. Couldn't use it a whole lot since I had to ride as well.




roddy409 wrote:
rdawg247, you have a good eye for just starting out. Keep those backgrounds clean (like you are doing) and keep going. Reading over the advice here...
rdawg247, you have a good eye for just starting out. Keep those backgrounds clean (like you are doing) and keep going. Reading over the advice here, I cannot recommend you take it all. If you really want to do photography, mastering the camera's controls and functions is unavoidable. Not only that, it is advantageous. So, by all means, begin with M as quickly as possible. The camera does not get exposure settings correct by itself. Rarely is that the case, in my experience. More relevant still, do you want the camera to make the photos, or do you want to make them?

Here is how I personally approach the track/scene:

ISO - as low as possible. ISO 100 (or less) produces the cleanest images with very little "grain" or noise. As you increase ISO, the sensitivity (to light) of the image sensor is increased. This allows fasters shutter speeds, but introduces more noise into the image. It is not a big deal if the images will never be printed or made really large. But if you will print, the lowest ISO will produce the finest prints. Only when it rains or is really dark do I increase ISO step-by-step (200, 400) to a max of, say, 800.
Aperture - What and how much will be in focus? Shallow focus or deep focus? Shallow focus means opening the aperture as wide as possible, e.g. f/2.8, f/2.0, etc. which creates those nice, blurry backgrounds. Deep focus means more of the scene will be in focus. For MX we are normally shooting wide open (e.g. f/2.8 or wider) and sometimes for really up-close work, starts or crowds we are stopping down the aperture to f/4, f/5.6 and in some rare cases, f/8.
Shutter speed - what is the right shutter speed for a balanced exposure in the current conditions? With a low ISO and Aperture setting, the shutter speed will be quite fast (1/3000 or 1/4000 in bright sun). This will stop all action in the frame including roost and tires. Experiment here with what you like best. Above we see some slight rotation in the wheels, which I think is actually nice, but not critical. But here we are wading into subjectivity...
White Balance - for now the Auto setting is probably the most reliable. I spent one whole season manually doing my white balance on track (with a grey card) with the available lighting, but I cannot honestly say it was better than the Auto.

Sportsshooter.com is a good resource. Read the portfolio reviews by the top guys and you will begin to see what they see.

But as I said, you have a natural eye so just keep shooting.
I appreciate the help! I’m actually going to screenshot what you sent and keep it in my phone for reference. Thank you!
1
rdawg427
Posts
100
Joined
2/13/2016
Location
Cobleskill, NY, USA
7/1/2020 8:20am
Thank you everyone that has helped out with tips and some examples to look at
7/1/2020 8:50am
roddy409 wrote:
rdawg247, you have a good eye for just starting out. Keep those backgrounds clean (like you are doing) and keep going. Reading over the advice here...
rdawg247, you have a good eye for just starting out. Keep those backgrounds clean (like you are doing) and keep going. Reading over the advice here, I cannot recommend you take it all. If you really want to do photography, mastering the camera's controls and functions is unavoidable. Not only that, it is advantageous. So, by all means, begin with M as quickly as possible. The camera does not get exposure settings correct by itself. Rarely is that the case, in my experience. More relevant still, do you want the camera to make the photos, or do you want to make them?

Here is how I personally approach the track/scene:

ISO - as low as possible. ISO 100 (or less) produces the cleanest images with very little "grain" or noise. As you increase ISO, the sensitivity (to light) of the image sensor is increased. This allows fasters shutter speeds, but introduces more noise into the image. It is not a big deal if the images will never be printed or made really large. But if you will print, the lowest ISO will produce the finest prints. Only when it rains or is really dark do I increase ISO step-by-step (200, 400) to a max of, say, 800.
Aperture - What and how much will be in focus? Shallow focus or deep focus? Shallow focus means opening the aperture as wide as possible, e.g. f/2.8, f/2.0, etc. which creates those nice, blurry backgrounds. Deep focus means more of the scene will be in focus. For MX we are normally shooting wide open (e.g. f/2.8 or wider) and sometimes for really up-close work, starts or crowds we are stopping down the aperture to f/4, f/5.6 and in some rare cases, f/8.
Shutter speed - what is the right shutter speed for a balanced exposure in the current conditions? With a low ISO and Aperture setting, the shutter speed will be quite fast (1/3000 or 1/4000 in bright sun). This will stop all action in the frame including roost and tires. Experiment here with what you like best. Above we see some slight rotation in the wheels, which I think is actually nice, but not critical. But here we are wading into subjectivity...
White Balance - for now the Auto setting is probably the most reliable. I spent one whole season manually doing my white balance on track (with a grey card) with the available lighting, but I cannot honestly say it was better than the Auto.

Sportsshooter.com is a good resource. Read the portfolio reviews by the top guys and you will begin to see what they see.

But as I said, you have a natural eye so just keep shooting.
"The camera does not get exposure settings correct by itself. Rarely is that the case, in my experience."

You can't be serious.....I can't believe I'm hearing that from a photographer.

Note you are contradicting yourself when you claim the camera doesn't get exposure correctly by itself but then claim you are fine with Auto WB and it's the most reliable? So Auto WB works and the exposure meter doesn't?? Interesting.
2
MrMJS
Posts
325
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Canton, OH, USA
7/1/2020 9:19am
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one.

As for WB this is one reason I shoot in RAW...

I would recommend to any individual getting into photography that they learn the exposure triangle. A person should be able to look at the image they just took and be able to figure out what to adjust to get the desired look/exposure if needed.
7/1/2020 9:47am
MrMJS wrote:
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one. As for WB this is one reason I shoot...
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one.

As for WB this is one reason I shoot in RAW...

I would recommend to any individual getting into photography that they learn the exposure triangle. A person should be able to look at the image they just took and be able to figure out what to adjust to get the desired look/exposure if needed.
You said you shoot in auto ISO so you are using the camera's meter, good decision.

We were talking about full manual above in which the photographer tries to nail exposure better than the camera in quickly changing lighting settings and camera angles. We are not talking about shooting portraits here, we're talking about shooting moto action. Suggesting a new photographer shoot in full manual for moto action is asinine.
MrMJS
Posts
325
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Canton, OH, USA
7/1/2020 9:58am
MrMJS wrote:
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one. As for WB this is one reason I shoot...
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one.

As for WB this is one reason I shoot in RAW...

I would recommend to any individual getting into photography that they learn the exposure triangle. A person should be able to look at the image they just took and be able to figure out what to adjust to get the desired look/exposure if needed.
You said you shoot in auto ISO so you are using the camera's meter, good decision. We were talking about full manual above in which the...
You said you shoot in auto ISO so you are using the camera's meter, good decision.

We were talking about full manual above in which the photographer tries to nail exposure better than the camera in quickly changing lighting settings and camera angles. We are not talking about shooting portraits here, we're talking about shooting moto action. Suggesting a new photographer shoot in full manual for moto action is asinine.
Good point.

I would recommend a NEW photographer to learn the exposure triangle either way. and yes, I am allowing the camera to set ISO based on the metering mode I've selected.
-MAVERICK-
Posts
66315
Joined
3/26/2015
Location
Ontario, CA
7/1/2020 10:11am
I used to snap for a smaller magazine and once got in a nice conversation with Joe Bonello (one of the true masters of MX photography)...
I used to snap for a smaller magazine and once got in a nice conversation with Joe Bonello (one of the true masters of MX photography). The question of lens choice came up and he made it clear that his go-to for any kind of track/action work was a 300mm telephoto (fixed glass). And, of course, it would always be "fast glass". I've lived by that rule since then, and have been happy with the results. While zoom lens offer flexibility, for digital applications the zoom always seems to lose any effectiveness in darker shadows. So it is zooms for pits and people pix, telephoto for the track.





Where was that "Huff Daddy" pic taken?

Blackfoot always had the best bikes, riders, look, etc. I wish they'd make a comeback.
MackFaint
Posts
12
Joined
4/5/2020
Location
Hoschton, GA, USA
7/1/2020 11:37am
MrMJS wrote:
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one. As for WB this is one reason I shoot...
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one.

As for WB this is one reason I shoot in RAW...

I would recommend to any individual getting into photography that they learn the exposure triangle. A person should be able to look at the image they just took and be able to figure out what to adjust to get the desired look/exposure if needed.
You said you shoot in auto ISO so you are using the camera's meter, good decision. We were talking about full manual above in which the...
You said you shoot in auto ISO so you are using the camera's meter, good decision.

We were talking about full manual above in which the photographer tries to nail exposure better than the camera in quickly changing lighting settings and camera angles. We are not talking about shooting portraits here, we're talking about shooting moto action. Suggesting a new photographer shoot in full manual for moto action is asinine.
Shooting full manual starting out as a beginner seemed to work fine for me. People are allowed different opinions man. Just because someone’s approach to photos is different that yours, does not make it “asinine” 👍🏼
7/1/2020 12:04pm
MrMJS wrote:
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one. As for WB this is one reason I shoot...
There is truth in what he is saying, there are variables to consider... metering settings being one.

As for WB this is one reason I shoot in RAW...

I would recommend to any individual getting into photography that they learn the exposure triangle. A person should be able to look at the image they just took and be able to figure out what to adjust to get the desired look/exposure if needed.
You said you shoot in auto ISO so you are using the camera's meter, good decision. We were talking about full manual above in which the...
You said you shoot in auto ISO so you are using the camera's meter, good decision.

We were talking about full manual above in which the photographer tries to nail exposure better than the camera in quickly changing lighting settings and camera angles. We are not talking about shooting portraits here, we're talking about shooting moto action. Suggesting a new photographer shoot in full manual for moto action is asinine.
MackFaint wrote:
Shooting full manual starting out as a beginner seemed to work fine for me. People are allowed different opinions man. Just because someone’s approach to photos...
Shooting full manual starting out as a beginner seemed to work fine for me. People are allowed different opinions man. Just because someone’s approach to photos is different that yours, does not make it “asinine” 👍🏼
Shooting in full manual as a beginner worked out for me too because I had no choice back in the film days. But you are saying you would honestly recommend a beginner moto photographer to shoot full manual before learning everything else about photography and their gear? Exposure is the last thing they should be worried about controlling.

Reminds me of the guys who show up at the kart track with a brand new shifter kart. They don't learn to drive before they worry about learning to shift and they get spanked. They wasted a bunch of time and money, end up selling the shifter, and buy a sprint kart where they should have started in the first place.

But yeah, you can skin a cat many different ways. I was just suggesting the best path to learn but you are right it's just my opinion.
FreshTopEnd
Posts
13247
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
7/1/2020 1:26pm
roddy409 wrote:
rdawg247, you have a good eye for just starting out. Keep those backgrounds clean (like you are doing) and keep going. Reading over the advice here...
rdawg247, you have a good eye for just starting out. Keep those backgrounds clean (like you are doing) and keep going. Reading over the advice here, I cannot recommend you take it all. If you really want to do photography, mastering the camera's controls and functions is unavoidable. Not only that, it is advantageous. So, by all means, begin with M as quickly as possible. The camera does not get exposure settings correct by itself. Rarely is that the case, in my experience. More relevant still, do you want the camera to make the photos, or do you want to make them?

Here is how I personally approach the track/scene:

ISO - as low as possible. ISO 100 (or less) produces the cleanest images with very little "grain" or noise. As you increase ISO, the sensitivity (to light) of the image sensor is increased. This allows fasters shutter speeds, but introduces more noise into the image. It is not a big deal if the images will never be printed or made really large. But if you will print, the lowest ISO will produce the finest prints. Only when it rains or is really dark do I increase ISO step-by-step (200, 400) to a max of, say, 800.
Aperture - What and how much will be in focus? Shallow focus or deep focus? Shallow focus means opening the aperture as wide as possible, e.g. f/2.8, f/2.0, etc. which creates those nice, blurry backgrounds. Deep focus means more of the scene will be in focus. For MX we are normally shooting wide open (e.g. f/2.8 or wider) and sometimes for really up-close work, starts or crowds we are stopping down the aperture to f/4, f/5.6 and in some rare cases, f/8.
Shutter speed - what is the right shutter speed for a balanced exposure in the current conditions? With a low ISO and Aperture setting, the shutter speed will be quite fast (1/3000 or 1/4000 in bright sun). This will stop all action in the frame including roost and tires. Experiment here with what you like best. Above we see some slight rotation in the wheels, which I think is actually nice, but not critical. But here we are wading into subjectivity...
White Balance - for now the Auto setting is probably the most reliable. I spent one whole season manually doing my white balance on track (with a grey card) with the available lighting, but I cannot honestly say it was better than the Auto.

Sportsshooter.com is a good resource. Read the portfolio reviews by the top guys and you will begin to see what they see.

But as I said, you have a natural eye so just keep shooting.
"The camera does not get exposure settings correct by itself. Rarely is that the case, in my experience." You can't be serious.....I can't believe I'm hearing...
"The camera does not get exposure settings correct by itself. Rarely is that the case, in my experience."

You can't be serious.....I can't believe I'm hearing that from a photographer.

Note you are contradicting yourself when you claim the camera doesn't get exposure correctly by itself but then claim you are fine with Auto WB and it's the most reliable? So Auto WB works and the exposure meter doesn't?? Interesting.
I'll go with Roddy. Seriously.

MX presents real DR challenges usually not present in other situations, especially with the exposure variability of different colors and often harsh lighting.

I never shoot auto anything anymore, and limit my use of the camera meter to the spot meter mode when judging highlights and shadows to set exposure manually while checking the histogram. You get consistently better photos, and because the settings tend to stay the same across many images it makes it easier to batch process fine exposure tuning of the raw files in PS.

Some of this is just a product of shooting enough that you automatically make the manual adjustments on the fly, the same way you rely on muscle memory to replicate actions on a bike without checking your notes.

Auto WP is a crap shoot among different camera bodies in my experience. Again for the sake of simplifying batch processing (not a small consideration if you're capturing 3,000-5,000 images a weekend) I pick a white balance preset and make adjustments in post. The high end way to do this is one of the programs that will gauge your camera body against a X-Rite and produce ACR RBG preset adjustments specific to the camera body that can be used to batch process baseline color correction, but smart use of the WB dropper works well too.

There are a lot of roads to Rome in terms of getting a nice shot, so suit yourself.

FreshTopEnd
Posts
13247
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
7/1/2020 1:32pm
rdawg427 wrote:
Just received my 1D mkIV bought for 650 with 55,000 actuations just waiting to purchase a lens
Good call. That is a terrific rig and an outright steal for performance on the used market
MackFaint
Posts
12
Joined
4/5/2020
Location
Hoschton, GA, USA
7/2/2020 6:03am






















MackFaint
Posts
12
Joined
4/5/2020
Location
Hoschton, GA, USA
7/2/2020 6:15am










2
FreshTopEnd
Posts
13247
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
7/2/2020 9:23am
FWYT wrote:
Didn't Buckley have a Q&A thread around here somewhere?
He did. Maybe you can pm him as I haven’t seen him post here in ages.
It use to be in the photo and video forum, which apparently is not part of the site any longer. Definitely was the primer for someone getting oriented.
2

Post a reply to: Moto photography

The Latest