Torque sequence question( somebody with a 2018 KTM 350 manual please read)

RCF wrote:

It is a cairoli maybe they use different specs in Europe [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/05/20/428401/s1200_Screenshot_20200520_124256.jpg[/img]

It is a cairoli maybe they use different specs in Europe

RCF wrote:

Okay and now I'm even more confused the above gentleman says the manual hasn't changed still 35 lb he's going to send me copies of the...

Okay and now I'm even more confused the above gentleman says the manual hasn't changed still 35 lb he's going to send me copies of the pages later, and thank you. manual that I have my my phone says 50 degrees and I just got off at the phone with KTM and they told me it's a hundred eighty degrees so I have three different answers to the same question WTF and he told me the studs don't have to be replaced.

JM485 wrote:

It would depend on whether the torque specified was intended to be used with dry or lubricated threads. On head bolts like we’re talking about here...

It would depend on whether the torque specified was intended to be used with dry or lubricated threads. On head bolts like we’re talking about here I can almost guarantee that the first two torque specs are meant to be used with lubricated bolts. If you don’t lubricate the threads (which would be almost impossible since there’s pretty much always oil on them already unless you did a full year down and vapor blasted the cases), the increased friction when tightening will lead to a much lower tension/torque ratio, and the bolt will be under stressed when installed. This is the same reason they often specifically say to lubricate under the bolt head as well, we’re trying to get as consistent of a torque reading as possible.

RCF wrote:

Thank you ,so KTM was right . now I have to go buy another torque wrench.

JM485 wrote:

It would depend on whether the torque specified was intended to be used with dry or lubricated threads. On head bolts like we’re talking about here...

It would depend on whether the torque specified was intended to be used with dry or lubricated threads. On head bolts like we’re talking about here I can almost guarantee that the first two torque specs are meant to be used with lubricated bolts. If you don’t lubricate the threads (which would be almost impossible since there’s pretty much always oil on them already unless you did a full year down and vapor blasted the cases), the increased friction when tightening will lead to a much lower tension/torque ratio, and the bolt will be under stressed when installed. This is the same reason they often specifically say to lubricate under the bolt head as well, we’re trying to get as consistent of a torque reading as possible.

SandProtege wrote:

Exactly! Seems like you really enjoyed your machine component design class lol. Torque wrenches rely on friction to give a torque reading. Torque wrenches in general...

Exactly! Seems like you really enjoyed your machine component design class lol. Torque wrenches rely on friction to give a torque reading. Torque wrenches in general are good to +- 30% with this method. The most consistent way of getting a torque specification is hand tightening then turn a certain rotation amount (think oil filter on car).

JM485 wrote:

I’ll be completely honest here, my machine design professor was an absolute moron who had a knack for telling us to put snap rings in places...

I’ll be completely honest here, my machine design professor was an absolute moron who had a knack for telling us to put snap rings in places that would make a mechanic want to end their life in spectacular fashion.

The greatest teacher I’ve had on this kind of thing was Carrol Smith, his books are incredible and taught me so much more than college could have ever hoped to. After reading a few of his books it drove me crazy to think how much important information we just glossed over in school and how much time we wasted on obscure topics that had almost no relevance to anything. His book “Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing” is worth it’s weight in gold as far as I’m concerned and completely changed the way I thought about mechanical fastening. Yes it’s information dense, but it doesn’t read like a textbook and his approach to things is very no-nonsense and refreshing.

JM485 wrote:

It would depend on whether the torque specified was intended to be used with dry or lubricated threads. On head bolts like we’re talking about here...

It would depend on whether the torque specified was intended to be used with dry or lubricated threads. On head bolts like we’re talking about here I can almost guarantee that the first two torque specs are meant to be used with lubricated bolts. If you don’t lubricate the threads (which would be almost impossible since there’s pretty much always oil on them already unless you did a full year down and vapor blasted the cases), the increased friction when tightening will lead to a much lower tension/torque ratio, and the bolt will be under stressed when installed. This is the same reason they often specifically say to lubricate under the bolt head as well, we’re trying to get as consistent of a torque reading as possible.

SandProtege wrote:

Exactly! Seems like you really enjoyed your machine component design class lol. Torque wrenches rely on friction to give a torque reading. Torque wrenches in general...

Exactly! Seems like you really enjoyed your machine component design class lol. Torque wrenches rely on friction to give a torque reading. Torque wrenches in general are good to +- 30% with this method. The most consistent way of getting a torque specification is hand tightening then turn a certain rotation amount (think oil filter on car).

JM485 wrote:

I’ll be completely honest here, my machine design professor was an absolute moron who had a knack for telling us to put snap rings in places...

I’ll be completely honest here, my machine design professor was an absolute moron who had a knack for telling us to put snap rings in places that would make a mechanic want to end their life in spectacular fashion.

The greatest teacher I’ve had on this kind of thing was Carrol Smith, his books are incredible and taught me so much more than college could have ever hoped to. After reading a few of his books it drove me crazy to think how much important information we just glossed over in school and how much time we wasted on obscure topics that had almost no relevance to anything. His book “Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing” is worth it’s weight in gold as far as I’m concerned and completely changed the way I thought about mechanical fastening. Yes it’s information dense, but it doesn’t read like a textbook and his approach to things is very no-nonsense and refreshing.

SandProtege wrote:

Exactly! Seems like you really enjoyed your machine component design class lol. Torque wrenches rely on friction to give a torque reading. Torque wrenches in general...

Exactly! Seems like you really enjoyed your machine component design class lol. Torque wrenches rely on friction to give a torque reading. Torque wrenches in general are good to +- 30% with this method. The most consistent way of getting a torque specification is hand tightening then turn a certain rotation amount (think oil filter on car).

JM485 wrote:

I’ll be completely honest here, my machine design professor was an absolute moron who had a knack for telling us to put snap rings in places...

I’ll be completely honest here, my machine design professor was an absolute moron who had a knack for telling us to put snap rings in places that would make a mechanic want to end their life in spectacular fashion.

The greatest teacher I’ve had on this kind of thing was Carrol Smith, his books are incredible and taught me so much more than college could have ever hoped to. After reading a few of his books it drove me crazy to think how much important information we just glossed over in school and how much time we wasted on obscure topics that had almost no relevance to anything. His book “Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing” is worth it’s weight in gold as far as I’m concerned and completely changed the way I thought about mechanical fastening. Yes it’s information dense, but it doesn’t read like a textbook and his approach to things is very no-nonsense and refreshing.

GeorgiePorgie wrote:

You went full nerd up there, but like not "fall asleep nerd," like "draw me in, I want to know more nerd"! ...so much so it's...

You went full nerd up there, but like not "fall asleep nerd," like "draw me in, I want to know more nerd"! ...so much so it's making me go buy this Carrol Smith book...