KYB insert vs Cone Valve

UGOTBIT
Posts
963
Joined
8/14/2018
Location
Upstate, NY US
Fantasy
2/27/2020 4:30pm
Do they offer a choice between Gen 1or Gen 2?

Is one or the other better suited for certain applications? I’m not finding much out there.
Hammer 663s
Posts
3078
Joined
6/2/2016
Location
Forest Grove, OR US
2/27/2020 5:41pm
UGOTBIT wrote:
Do they offer a choice between Gen 1or Gen 2?

Is one or the other better suited for certain applications? I’m not finding much out there.
The Gen 1 is an OC design. The Gen 2 is CC, designed for faster/heavier riders and more damping. MX/SX stuff. I went Gen 1 since I am old and slow, and wanted easier self-maintenance. N2Dirt and JBI Suspension have experience with both systems.
1
jeffoff
Posts
138
Joined
3/1/2019
Location
BE
2/28/2020 5:28am
Ordered the Kayaba cartridge kit @ Technical Touch, they will be back available in march and will let me know when I can send them my AER forks...
Heard very good things about this setup true various channels...
Luxon MX
Posts
1374
Joined
11/6/2017
Location
San Diego, CA US
Fantasy
2/28/2020 12:05pm
Here's the MX Tech Lucky (left) next to the Dal Saggio. You can see where the weight comes from. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/02/27/407106/s1200_fork_spring_conversions.jpg[/img]
Here's the MX Tech Lucky (left) next to the Dal Saggio. You can see where the weight comes from.

That's for our project bike. I have a set of the gen 2 cartridges coming as well, so we'll have a weight for that soon. The Dal Soggios went in our Husky. They're heavy, but the work amazingly well.
2

The Shop

red_leader
Posts
246
Joined
3/6/2018
Location
Redondo Beach, CA US
2/28/2020 12:06pm
You have a choice between gen1 and gen2.

The main difference is that gen2 is capable of much stiffer damping than gen1, if you need it.

He only recommends gen2 if you're a bigger guy, or if you are just stupid fast Smile
Hammer 663s
Posts
3078
Joined
6/2/2016
Location
Forest Grove, OR US
2/28/2020 12:16pm
Luxon MX wrote:
That's for our project bike. I have a set of the gen 2 cartridges coming as well, so we'll have a weight for that soon. The...
That's for our project bike. I have a set of the gen 2 cartridges coming as well, so we'll have a weight for that soon. The Dal Soggios went in our Husky. They're heavy, but the work amazingly well.
Yeah, I stole the photo since it was relevant to this thread. Smile I just put the Gen 1s on my FC350 last night, but I haven't had a chance to ride it yet. The weekend looks wet so might not for some time, damn you PNW weather.

Hammer 663s
2
Hammer 663s
Posts
3078
Joined
6/2/2016
Location
Forest Grove, OR US
3/12/2020 11:41am
Got my suspension back from MX Tech a couple weeks ago, and have gotten 2 rides in on my private track since then. Track is not groomed, has plenty of small chop into and out of corners, loose dirt in the bowl turns, ruts, a little mud, a little hardpack. Spun 100s of laps on this track and know every inch of it well.

Initial impressions are vastly improved small bump compliance, especially going over small chop on entry, on gas or under braking. Forks hold up well, then settle in very predictably under load. My confidence in what the front wheel is doing/is about to do is much higher than with the air spring, even on a worn MX33 front. Overshooting a landing results in less spike even at 195 rider weight.

Only played with the compression damping a little bit. 12 clicks out was MX Tech setting. I've gone softer by 2 and it was noticeable, and I think I bottomed it (or came close) once at that setting. I haven't gone stiffer yet but will next time out. I do like that I haven't touched an air pump at all.

Shock seems well matched to the fork. Haven't touched a thing on it from as-delivered settings. I will play with it a little more once I prep the track and get some more seat time. Spring riding weather is sketch here in the PNW.



Hammer
1
UGOTBIT
Posts
963
Joined
8/14/2018
Location
Upstate, NY US
Fantasy
3/12/2020 4:40pm
Got my suspension back from MX Tech a couple weeks ago, and have gotten 2 rides in on my private track since then. Track is not...
Got my suspension back from MX Tech a couple weeks ago, and have gotten 2 rides in on my private track since then. Track is not groomed, has plenty of small chop into and out of corners, loose dirt in the bowl turns, ruts, a little mud, a little hardpack. Spun 100s of laps on this track and know every inch of it well.

Initial impressions are vastly improved small bump compliance, especially going over small chop on entry, on gas or under braking. Forks hold up well, then settle in very predictably under load. My confidence in what the front wheel is doing/is about to do is much higher than with the air spring, even on a worn MX33 front. Overshooting a landing results in less spike even at 195 rider weight.

Only played with the compression damping a little bit. 12 clicks out was MX Tech setting. I've gone softer by 2 and it was noticeable, and I think I bottomed it (or came close) once at that setting. I haven't gone stiffer yet but will next time out. I do like that I haven't touched an air pump at all.

Shock seems well matched to the fork. Haven't touched a thing on it from as-delivered settings. I will play with it a little more once I prep the track and get some more seat time. Spring riding weather is sketch here in the PNW.



Hammer
Thanks for the update Hammer!

Think I’m going to pull the trigger on a set!
1
aees
Posts
2717
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
3/13/2020 6:17pm
Got my suspension back from MX Tech a couple weeks ago, and have gotten 2 rides in on my private track since then. Track is not...
Got my suspension back from MX Tech a couple weeks ago, and have gotten 2 rides in on my private track since then. Track is not groomed, has plenty of small chop into and out of corners, loose dirt in the bowl turns, ruts, a little mud, a little hardpack. Spun 100s of laps on this track and know every inch of it well.

Initial impressions are vastly improved small bump compliance, especially going over small chop on entry, on gas or under braking. Forks hold up well, then settle in very predictably under load. My confidence in what the front wheel is doing/is about to do is much higher than with the air spring, even on a worn MX33 front. Overshooting a landing results in less spike even at 195 rider weight.

Only played with the compression damping a little bit. 12 clicks out was MX Tech setting. I've gone softer by 2 and it was noticeable, and I think I bottomed it (or came close) once at that setting. I haven't gone stiffer yet but will next time out. I do like that I haven't touched an air pump at all.

Shock seems well matched to the fork. Haven't touched a thing on it from as-delivered settings. I will play with it a little more once I prep the track and get some more seat time. Spring riding weather is sketch here in the PNW.



Hammer
What setting are you on, springs, oil level, preload etc?
Hammer 663s
Posts
3078
Joined
6/2/2016
Location
Forest Grove, OR US
3/13/2020 6:44pm
aees wrote:
What setting are you on, springs, oil level, preload etc?
Forks Comp/Rebound both 12 out, .50 springs, 85mm oil height. 2nd line on fork height.

Shock is 15 Low, 2-1/2 High, 15 rebound. Stock spring rate @ 105 sag.

I'm at 192 fat winter weight so a little chunky for the spring rates. Working on dropping 10 lbs. It's no-alcohol March so that should do it with a little work. Wink

Hammer
1
red_leader
Posts
246
Joined
3/6/2018
Location
Redondo Beach, CA US
3/13/2020 8:14pm
In about a month MX-Tech's new Gen2 Carbon inserts will be out.
Supposed to run less oil volume and be the lightest insert kit available (not sure on the weight yet)

I think they took their new Gen2 system and used more lighter weight materials. (like carbon? lol) Maybe some small updates as well.

I just talked to them, they have kits for 49mm Showa now, but the AERs should be coming April / May.

I'm interested!
aees
Posts
2717
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
3/14/2020 1:01am
aees wrote:
What setting are you on, springs, oil level, preload etc?
Forks Comp/Rebound both 12 out, .50 springs, 85mm oil height. 2nd line on fork height. Shock is 15 Low, 2-1/2 High, 15 rebound. Stock spring rate...
Forks Comp/Rebound both 12 out, .50 springs, 85mm oil height. 2nd line on fork height.

Shock is 15 Low, 2-1/2 High, 15 rebound. Stock spring rate @ 105 sag.

I'm at 192 fat winter weight so a little chunky for the spring rates. Working on dropping 10 lbs. It's no-alcohol March so that should do it with a little work. Wink

Hammer
285ml oil?
Hammer 663s
Posts
3078
Joined
6/2/2016
Location
Forest Grove, OR US
3/14/2020 8:07am Edited Date/Time 3/14/2020 8:08am
aees wrote:
285ml oil?
No - 85mm height measured from cap. Not sure what that is in ml but I will measure that when I change fork oil. I usually go by ml too, not height.
jeffoff
Posts
138
Joined
3/1/2019
Location
BE
3/18/2020 11:13am
Received my forks with the kayaba cartridge today, due to the corona virus all circuits closed till april for now Pinch .
No riding/testing till then...



1
jeffoff
Posts
138
Joined
3/1/2019
Location
BE
3/18/2020 11:14am

aees
Posts
2717
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
3/18/2020 2:37pm
jeffoff wrote:
Received my forks with the kayaba cartridge today, due to the corona virus all circuits closed till april for now :pinch: . No riding/testing till then...
Received my forks with the kayaba cartridge today, due to the corona virus all circuits closed till april for now Pinch .
No riding/testing till then...



Setup, weight and bike model? Rear spring?
jeffoff
Posts
138
Joined
3/1/2019
Location
BE
3/19/2020 12:25am
aees wrote:
Setup, weight and bike model? Rear spring?
TC250 2018
32 year old amateur, mediocre level, 79kg without gear
Asked them to setup for the sandtracks i ride in Belgium/netherlands.
Length of spring, 470mm with 3mm spacer
Springrate 4.6n
Oil level 360cc
Compression & rebound are both on 12clicks out, range is 24.
Shock is still stock with 42-260 spring, this will be next...
313
Posts
39
Joined
1/4/2015
Location
EE
3/19/2020 7:09am
aees wrote:
Setup, weight and bike model? Rear spring?
jeffoff wrote:
TC250 2018 32 year old amateur, mediocre level, 79kg without gear Asked them to setup for the sandtracks i ride in Belgium/netherlands. Length of spring, 470mm...
TC250 2018
32 year old amateur, mediocre level, 79kg without gear
Asked them to setup for the sandtracks i ride in Belgium/netherlands.
Length of spring, 470mm with 3mm spacer
Springrate 4.6n
Oil level 360cc
Compression & rebound are both on 12clicks out, range is 24.
Shock is still stock with 42-260 spring, this will be next...
You will love these forks Smile
Ive had cone valves and aer cone valves. These techincal touch kybs are very good out of the box.
1
3/19/2020 7:59pm
Im jealous. I want a set of these so bad. Make sure and give us a ride report!
313
Posts
39
Joined
1/4/2015
Location
EE
3/20/2020 2:09am
Im jealous. I want a set of these so bad. Make sure and give us a ride report!
I give my little comparison..
I had cone valves with trax since 2015. 2019 season I had aer cone valves and supertrax. At the end of 2019 I switched to technical touch kybs internals and a-kit kyb shock. Riding KTM 350SXF, midpack A class rider.

Aer cone valve
I would say the cone valves were pretty good and also the trax with revalve was good also. But aer cone valve was a headache. I had A4 paper full of settings written down :D One day the setting was good and another day with same setting and same track, but little different track conditions and the setting didnt work. It was really a struggle to get comfortable. And with first ride the lower air chamber pressure rises a little and you can feel that. I wouldnt recommend aer cone valve to anyone. Too many possibilites to get lost with settings. Although I liked the light front end riding on sand tracks.

Cone valve vs tech. touch kyb
Cone valves is more firm in my opinion. Moves less than kyb and rides littler higher in the stroke. Softening up it wouldnt feel the same as kyb. Kyb is plush, progressive and has more comfort on little chop. No difference in big pumps though. I barely get armpump with kyb. I felt comfortable rightaway. In my opinion the kyb is better overall. Maybe it is the technical touch valving thing, but out of the box the technical touch kyb is better in my opinion.
Markee
Posts
3658
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
3/20/2020 6:39am
Schlava wrote:
Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much...
Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much cheaper than some of these set ups. I have a YZ in garage and TX300 I'm going to check tonight to see if the O.D. of the forks tubes are the same. I guess would also need to check fork length.
I did this a few years ago. These forks are currently on a KX500.

You need to bore and shim to fit trees.
Make spacers to fit axle
Modify brembo bracket




1
3/20/2020 8:41pm
Im jealous. I want a set of these so bad. Make sure and give us a ride report!
313 wrote:
I give my little comparison.. I had cone valves with trax since 2015. 2019 season I had aer cone valves and supertrax. At the end of...
I give my little comparison..
I had cone valves with trax since 2015. 2019 season I had aer cone valves and supertrax. At the end of 2019 I switched to technical touch kybs internals and a-kit kyb shock. Riding KTM 350SXF, midpack A class rider.

Aer cone valve
I would say the cone valves were pretty good and also the trax with revalve was good also. But aer cone valve was a headache. I had A4 paper full of settings written down :D One day the setting was good and another day with same setting and same track, but little different track conditions and the setting didnt work. It was really a struggle to get comfortable. And with first ride the lower air chamber pressure rises a little and you can feel that. I wouldnt recommend aer cone valve to anyone. Too many possibilites to get lost with settings. Although I liked the light front end riding on sand tracks.

Cone valve vs tech. touch kyb
Cone valves is more firm in my opinion. Moves less than kyb and rides littler higher in the stroke. Softening up it wouldnt feel the same as kyb. Kyb is plush, progressive and has more comfort on little chop. No difference in big pumps though. I barely get armpump with kyb. I felt comfortable rightaway. In my opinion the kyb is better overall. Maybe it is the technical touch valving thing, but out of the box the technical touch kyb is better in my opinion.
Thanks for the breakdown. I have an 06 yz with the sss sprung and valved for me. Not sure if its the tuner or just the design but they are the best feeling forks ive ridden. I like them better than the showas on my 19 kx 450. Id love to get that same feeling on my tc 250! I was planning a trip to the nations this year and saved up some money. I think my euro trip is canceled cause of the craziness going on right now. Maybe ill use the money that i saved for the trip on the conversion instead.
3/21/2020 12:28am
I’ve been quite vocal about how good the KYB inserts are. Those are unbelievable and you get a lot of confidence from front end traction which for me is what I like.

I did buy a set of Cone valves (Xact) and at first I absolutely hated them, just couldn’t ride the bike how I normally do. Luckily I sent them back to KAS Suspension and he used a different cone instead of the standard one and now the forks are unbelievable, so much better and it’s probably the best suspension I’ve ever had.

Now that it’s set up properly I do think the cone valves are extremely good.
3/21/2020 11:16am
Thanks all the input, finally I bought KYB conversion kit from technical touch. The weapon is ready, tomorrow will be the first test.

Also trax installed in rear, maybe its unusual coupling.


2
aees
Posts
2717
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
3/21/2020 3:24pm
mx.david21 wrote:
Thanks all the input, finally I bought KYB conversion kit from technical touch. The weapon is ready, tomorrow will be the first test. Also trax installed...
Thanks all the input, finally I bought KYB conversion kit from technical touch. The weapon is ready, tomorrow will be the first test.

Also trax installed in rear, maybe its unusual coupling.


What setup are you on? Oil level, springs, preload, bike, rear spring and rider weight please 😁
3/21/2020 9:27pm
I plan to go KYB cartridge route on my KTM SXF 250 2020

As i understand technical touch sells only forks kit, how does this kit works with the stock shock, is the balance of the bike still maintained?
No need to do mods to the shock also?

1
CarlinoJoeVideo
Posts
7518
Joined
11/30/2013
Location
Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
3/21/2020 9:29pm
I plan to go KYB cartridge route on my KTM SXF 250 2020 As i understand technical touch sells only forks kit, how does this kit...
I plan to go KYB cartridge route on my KTM SXF 250 2020

As i understand technical touch sells only forks kit, how does this kit works with the stock shock, is the balance of the bike still maintained?
No need to do mods to the shock also?

The OEM KTM shock is great. You should be able to tune it to work fine with KYB fork.
2
Eddy_V
Posts
55
Joined
10/1/2019
Location
NL
7/18/2020 12:34pm
mx.david21 wrote:
Thanks all the input, finally I bought KYB conversion kit from technical touch. The weapon is ready, tomorrow will be the first test. Also trax installed...
Thanks all the input, finally I bought KYB conversion kit from technical touch. The weapon is ready, tomorrow will be the first test.

Also trax installed in rear, maybe its unusual coupling.


aees wrote:
What setup are you on? Oil level, springs, preload, bike, rear spring and rider weight please 😁
Had the new kyb kit today for the first time on track

Settings:
48nm spring
Com. 10
Reb. 14
365 ml oil
Rider 220 lbs, intermediate

First notes: its plusher, doesnt feel springy like aer, creates like a little oversteer unlike aer, who wades to the outside. overjumped a table on to the flat, no worries at all.
Now after 1.5 hrs hard riding on a track with 20 jumps per lap, no sore wrists anymore.
NeedMoto
Posts
780
Joined
8/6/2015
Location
Penn Valley, CA US
7/18/2020 3:41pm
Hmmm... I weigh 183 and went with the 47nm spring, same KYB kit as you. 48nm seems like it would be to soft for your weight. I wonder if the oversteer might be because of the soft spring for your weight?

Anyway... great conversion, love them on my 2020 FC350!
aees
Posts
2717
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
7/18/2020 11:59pm
I'm at 200lbs, 5.0 springs and 300 oil. 4mm preload.

Post a reply to: KYB insert vs Cone Valve

The Latest