Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but paid users have great benefits. Paid member benefits:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2024 SX, MX, and SMX series (regularly $30).
The Shop
I do know when Reed was on KTM with the KYB internals in the WP tubes they bumped up the torque a lot to try and stiffen the front end up so the torque for sure plays into the feel.
To those asking about my torque wrenches, I have multiple, they aren’t cheap, two are actual Nm torque wrenches and I have a digital torque “calibration” tool that i mount in my vice so i check them regularly enough. I am comfortable with how they perform and understand there can be a variance… so thank you, captain obvious!
With that said … I have tested many torques at different tracks and i prefer 11Nm in the bottom clamp on my WP split clamps as an overall setting. Tracks that are tighter i’ll go to 12Nm and more open flowing tracks like LACR 11Nm.
I’m a stout fan of snapon for torque wrenches - but norbar would be my go to second option.
CDI is another good brand http://www.cditorque.com/
I believe at one point they both made tq wrenches for snap on.
The big variable that you don't have much control over is friction. Unless you're using a brand new, clean bolt (and clean threads), the friction level and resulting clamping load can be all over the place, even at the same torque level. So if you're just re-using the same bolt every time and aren't thoroughly cleaning it every time, the difference between the 10 and 11 Nm of torque is lost in the noise of the uncertainty in the torque to tension relationship.
For the triple clamp pinch bolts, though, specifically the lower clamp, you really want the lowest torque (lowest clamping load) you can have without any slipping. Adding torque beyond that is only increasing the harshness of the fork as it's increasing binding as the bushing passes through the triple clamp area. You can run the same low torque at all tracks, but change your compression damping to get the same effect, but it will be far more consistent than changing the bolt torque.
I respect your input, products, and participation on Vital Billy and will purchase from you in the future but using blanket statements such as use new bolts or not cleaning properly is assumptive that I am just slapping my motorcycle together with dirty bolts, ace hardware ratchets from 1981 or not be able to feel differences in what I have tested myself. I have also noticed that my lowest clamp bolt loosens slightly after a day of riding and ensure that I check the clamps on my pre ride bolt check along with the top clamp pinch bolt after the input you provided the “ktm split in half” thread.
So on one hand I thank you but at the same time please don’t discount others experience or input, I am active military and I always say the one that usually comes up with best solution is the lowest private on the battle field .
Let's pretend for a bit that you have a precise and perfectly accurate torque wrench and you perfectly apply the same torque consistently every time. Also, let's pretend that the bolt you use and the mating threads are perfectly clean and dry every time. (You don't, and it isn't, on all accounts, but for the sake of argument...) The only thing that "changes" is you re-use the same bolt every time.
The massive thing you don't have control over is friction. What actually matters is clamping load on the fork tube; torque would be completely irrelevant, but it's a convenient way to APPROXIMATE the clamping load. It's approximate as it's directly related to the amount of friction present. You get different clamping loads (and different feel while riding) for the same torque value if the friction changes. And if you re-use the bolt multiple times, the coating wears off, the threads mate together better (either a smoother fit or they gall and get tighter), etc. So the friction, and the resulting clamping load is always changing to some extent, sometimes by a lot. You can read more about that here:
https://www.nord-lock.com/insights/bolting-tips/2020/reusing-bolted-joi…
Now, taking that into account, plus the fact that nothing is perfectly accurate, repeatable, etc., and it's clear that the actual clamping load will vary because of all that. 1 Nm of change on 10 Nm is only 10%. If all that uncertainty only adds up to +/- 5% (often stated as the accuracy of the torque wrench itself ignoring every other uncertainty), then what's the real difference between 10 and 11 Nm of torque?
Regardless of all that, the reason that you can feel a difference at different clamping loads on the lower triple clamps has nothing to do with changes in "flex". It's because at a higher clamping load, you distort the fork tube more, which causes binding and harshness as the inner bushing passes through that spot. It essentially stiffens up the suspension. You can achieve that same thing, but much more consistently with some suspension adjustments, all while maintaining more plush suspension.
Are these tubes capable of being compressed to the point of fork harshness, yet returning to their non-harsh dimension when the torque is reduced?
Pit Row
We tested multiple triple clamps - stock, ours, Xtrig, Neken, etc. and they were all about the same. More torque than necessary and they started to bind up. Unless the machining tolerances are way off, it will be about the same no matter what clamp you're looking at. That's why the proper torque is the minimum you can get away with without anything slipping; any more and you're just binding up the suspension.
Post a reply to: KYB insert vs Cone Valve