2001 CR250 $pecial Restoration Part II - Recreation of a 1999-2000 Japan Honda Factory RC250M

philG
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2/21/2020 1:44pm
I never tire of seeing this stuff
4
dean122
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2/21/2020 2:19pm
This bike is a masterpiece. Thank you for sharing your journey with us!
2
2/21/2020 2:39pm
`Hey Mike All you need now is a works rear shock and your bike will be factory works. Any plans to do the motor. Keep it coming I can't get enough. Are you sure you weren't a factory mechanic?
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/21/2020 3:52pm
`Hey Mike All you need now is a works rear shock and your bike will be factory works. Any plans to do the motor. Keep it...
`Hey Mike All you need now is a works rear shock and your bike will be factory works. Any plans to do the motor. Keep it coming I can't get enough. Are you sure you weren't a factory mechanic?
Thanks William.. I already have the works billet rear shock and will be posting pics real soon.

I have all the HRC parts for the outside of the motor but no plans for the internals.. HRC cranks and transmissions are big money then you put them inside the case where you can never see or touch them again? I don't see the point.

The Shop

Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/21/2020 4:00pm
Here is a pic of the rare HRC brake line guide clamp along with HRC titanium bolts and HRC steel braided brake line. Most of the time, HRC used just the oem clamp, but they did have this special HRC clamp that I have occasionally seen in pics of some of the Japan factory bikes from 1999 to 2003. They weren't common but did exist


I should also have mentioned how light the big fat hollow hubs are. A modern wheel hub is much smaller, but it is very dense/ thicker metal, whereas the wall thickness of the fat hubs is rather thin in comparison
2
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/21/2020 4:03pm
dean122 wrote:
This bike is a masterpiece. Thank you for sharing your journey with us!
Thanks Dean.. hoping some people are enjoying the details.
Chance1216
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2/21/2020 7:26pm
Bike looks great. Outta curiosity, who makes the red rear brake line your using?
1
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/21/2020 7:42pm
Chance1216 wrote:
Bike looks great. Outta curiosity, who makes the red rear brake line your using?
Hi Damien, the brake line is from "Core" and you can custom design the look of your own line and they have great service as well.
2
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/24/2020 4:54pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2020 4:55pm
The latest works part to arrive is this billet works Showa shock off of Frédéric Bolley’s 2000 MXGP championship winning RC250M. It is in fairly nice condition and the 18mm shock shaft looks massive in real life. The machining around the compression adjustor is always a bit rough and distinctive on these CNC billet shock bodies. I am going to re-anodize all the red parts on the shock, but not sure about the blue. I will probably mix up a custom batch of blue dye to see how close I can come to the original before I decide. I may also use the titanium spring from the current shock.







5
LOOnatic
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2/24/2020 5:55pm
So i have a question and if you can' t answer publicly i understand.
How in the hell does stuff like just "arrive"?
I know you scour the deep depths of the internetz and such but as you gain momentum in such a bad ass build are you shown favor by the few peole that have this trick stuff lying around?
I have a long honda road race background so i love the history behind this build and all the cool Japanese influences that you add to the mix.
2/24/2020 6:12pm
Hi Mike That shock is so off the hook. If your bike don't make a museum our sport has lost its way. I hope to meet you in person someday to shack your hand. It's been a hell of an adventure in hrc education. Thank you for allowing us to attend. William
1
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/24/2020 6:14pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2020 6:39pm
LOOnatic wrote:
So i have a question and if you can' t answer publicly i understand. How in the hell does stuff like just "arrive"? I know you...
So i have a question and if you can' t answer publicly i understand.
How in the hell does stuff like just "arrive"?
I know you scour the deep depths of the internetz and such but as you gain momentum in such a bad ass build are you shown favor by the few peole that have this trick stuff lying around?
I have a long honda road race background so i love the history behind this build and all the cool Japanese influences that you add to the mix.
I covered this earlier in this thread somewhere. You find almost nothing in the first few years, then you build up contacts and learn where to look. Also, anyone who happens to have a collection of these parts isn't going to post them on ebay or Craigs list usually, but will sometimes reach out when they see a serious project going and know their rare parts are going to a good home. Also, usually only a person with a serious project understands the prices of these parts and are willing to pay that kind of money for old parts. There is a network of people with these parts that know each other and common for the parts to change hands many times among the network. Some just want to own the part for a while then pass it on. I myself don't actively advertise the extra HRC parts I have, but if I see someone I know that needs the part for their project, I will offer it. The network will also help each other finding parts and pass on info, so everyone helps each other. Some parts I would not have found unless someone else in the network gave me the heads up. It is mutually beneficial.
3
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/24/2020 6:16pm
Hi Mike That shock is so off the hook. If your bike don't make a museum our sport has lost its way. I hope to meet...
Hi Mike That shock is so off the hook. If your bike don't make a museum our sport has lost its way. I hope to meet you in person someday to shack your hand. It's been a hell of an adventure in hrc education. Thank you for allowing us to attend. William
I am near New York City if you are ever in the area.
CrGuy2T
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2/24/2020 6:30pm
LOOnatic wrote:
So i have a question and if you can' t answer publicly i understand. How in the hell does stuff like just "arrive"? I know you...
So i have a question and if you can' t answer publicly i understand.
How in the hell does stuff like just "arrive"?
I know you scour the deep depths of the internetz and such but as you gain momentum in such a bad ass build are you shown favor by the few peole that have this trick stuff lying around?
I have a long honda road race background so i love the history behind this build and all the cool Japanese influences that you add to the mix.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. The world may never know...
1
2/24/2020 6:42pm
Mike,

I follow this built for a long long time and everytime you post something on instagram or here I'm amazed by your knowledge of the HRC bikes and the details you put into this built. The 2001 CR250 have a special place in my heart since it was the first time I could afford a brand new bike. I built a CR250AF with the 2001 motor in 2014 and making this old motor in top notch condition wasn't easy I can't imagine making a full factory bike!

I saw some alpine skis on one picture. Whenever you come to Vermont for skiing in Jay Peak I would gladly meet the man behind this built and show you the way around Jay!
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/24/2020 6:59pm
LOOnatic wrote:
So i have a question and if you can' t answer publicly i understand. How in the hell does stuff like just "arrive"? I know you...
So i have a question and if you can' t answer publicly i understand.
How in the hell does stuff like just "arrive"?
I know you scour the deep depths of the internetz and such but as you gain momentum in such a bad ass build are you shown favor by the few peole that have this trick stuff lying around?
I have a long honda road race background so i love the history behind this build and all the cool Japanese influences that you add to the mix.
CrGuy2T wrote:
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. The world may never know...
I should also have mentioned that to become part of this network, not only do you need to have some nice works parts in hand to trade, but you have to give up your first born and swear celibacy for the remainder of your life. It operates under a dark cloak of secrecy and revealing the secrets to the outside world is punishable by death Wink Smile Tongue Smile Wink Tongue
2
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/24/2020 7:05pm
charley586 wrote:
Mike, I follow this built for a long long time and everytime you post something on instagram or here I'm amazed by your knowledge of the...
Mike,

I follow this built for a long long time and everytime you post something on instagram or here I'm amazed by your knowledge of the HRC bikes and the details you put into this built. The 2001 CR250 have a special place in my heart since it was the first time I could afford a brand new bike. I built a CR250AF with the 2001 motor in 2014 and making this old motor in top notch condition wasn't easy I can't imagine making a full factory bike!

I saw some alpine skis on one picture. Whenever you come to Vermont for skiing in Jay Peak I would gladly meet the man behind this built and show you the way around Jay!
Hi Charley,

I go to Vermont quite often for skiing. This hasn't been the greatest season for skiing, but I was at Killington last week, Whiteface the week before that and next week I will be at Cannon and Loon mountains in NH skiing. It would be great to meet you some day. I was hoping to go to Jay Peak this year, but season is ending fast and I will go in for season ending shoulder surgery on 3/31 from a ski accident in Vail, Colorado the first week of December.

mike
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/24/2020 11:47pm
A little note bit about the RC250M frames of this period... they did not use production frames per se. I understand they pulled unfinished frames off the production line and then HRC finished welding the frame by hand often adding plating/ braces here an there such as the foot peg area, steering head and added a cross brace where the frame front down tube splits about just below the exhaust header. They would also weld on mounts for the skid plate as well as two threaded inserts on the right lower frame rail for the HRC right engine case guard. The Japan factory frames had more bracing than the US team.. I guess they liked their frames stiffer. That was pretty much how the frames of these factory bikes were prepared. The swingarm often had a cross brace welded at the front and in the 2nd season of these bikes, a different brake caliper mount slider had to be welded to the inside of the swing arm for the prototype new brake set up that found its way on all 2002+ production CRs and CRFs since then. I don't intend to do any additional welding to this frame except for the two threaded inserts for the right engine guard.
2
Tokyo_Tiddler
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2/29/2020 6:39pm
To go along with the works billet shock, I was also very fortunate to be able to get this NOS HRC billet rear shock linkage.. this really nice piece will certainly complement the build and I feel very lucky to be able to find these correct parts for the build. Except for a few very minor things, all the major hard parts have been found to complete a 1999 Japan RC250M.




The Japan's factory team's 1999 and 2000 RC250Ms were essentially the same machine except that they changed the triple clamp color from black/ silver to red, the MFJ changed the number plate backgrounds from dark green to bright red, the Showa works fork tube diameter increased from 49mm to 51mm, and they added the prototype rear brake set up which became an OEM part for all 2002+ production models. However the rear master cylinder mounting tabs were very different on the prototype 2000 rear master cylinder, so I can't swap on the 2002+ versions.. I need to find the prototype rear master cylinder that only fits the 2000/2001 frame and as you can imagine there are not many to be found since they were only used a year or two on this model only.

Essentially this same RC250 was raced also in 2001 by the Japan team, but only one bike (ridden by Atsuta) as the other 2 riders were on a 2002 preproduction CR250 and CRF450. 2000 was the last year the entire Honda factory team were all on the same 2 stroke machine.

5
ledger
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3/1/2020 1:23pm
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC internals ? Also, Is it possible to get the correct rear brake line, or is that basically the same break line that HRC used ?
Chance1216
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3/1/2020 1:51pm
ledger wrote:
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC...
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC internals ? Also, Is it possible to get the correct rear brake line, or is that basically the same break line that HRC used ?
Didn’t Dogger315 go all out with HRC internals in his build awhile back?
ledger
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3/1/2020 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2020 5:34pm
Chance1216 wrote:
Didn’t Dogger315 go all out with HRC internals in his build awhile back?
I believe so...that dude has some serious major league skills.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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3/1/2020 7:54pm
ledger wrote:
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC...
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC internals ? Also, Is it possible to get the correct rear brake line, or is that basically the same break line that HRC used ?
The factory team used an oem brake line so no that is not the one they used. The bike originally was not intended to come this far as a full-on RC250m build as I never thought I would find the parts, Just haven't gotten back to the brake line yet as I am not so excited to look at OEM parts as well as because of the fact I am searching for the prototype rear brake set up used only in the last year this model was raced by the factory.

I mentioned before that I thought doing the engine internals makes no sense. Would you spend $5k for an HRC crank and then tuck it away in the darkness inside buttoned up cases never to be seen again for a display bike? Do you know that many of the old factory bikes on display and in museums have empty transmission and crankcases.. they are empty. The cost/ benefit ratio isn't there,
2
Tokyo_Tiddler
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3/1/2020 7:58pm
ledger wrote:
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC...
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC internals ? Also, Is it possible to get the correct rear brake line, or is that basically the same break line that HRC used ?
Chance1216 wrote:
Didn’t Dogger315 go all out with HRC internals in his build awhile back?
I looked at Dogger315's last few builds.. nice builds but he has no HRC parts on there at all. Aftermarket parts + A-kit suspension.
Chance1216
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3/1/2020 9:37pm
ledger wrote:
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC...
Hey Tokyo, you've taken the bike this far...why not go full bore and open the cases to check and spec the internals to replace with HRC internals ? Also, Is it possible to get the correct rear brake line, or is that basically the same break line that HRC used ?
Chance1216 wrote:
Didn’t Dogger315 go all out with HRC internals in his build awhile back?
I looked at Dogger315's last few builds.. nice builds but he has no HRC parts on there at all. Aftermarket parts + A-kit suspension.
May have been ATM forum. I recalled him using a HRC piston, pin, stator and a few other parts. CryoREM tranny off the top of my head. Been a few years since I’ve read it.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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3/1/2020 9:55pm
Chance1216 wrote:
Didn’t Dogger315 go all out with HRC internals in his build awhile back?
I looked at Dogger315's last few builds.. nice builds but he has no HRC parts on there at all. Aftermarket parts + A-kit suspension.
Chance1216 wrote:
May have been ATM forum. I recalled him using a HRC piston, pin, stator and a few other parts. CryoREM tranny off the top of my...
May have been ATM forum. I recalled him using a HRC piston, pin, stator and a few other parts. CryoREM tranny off the top of my head. Been a few years since I’ve read it.
he had 2 builds I looked at.. a 1995 CR250 and a 2001 engine in a 2008 CRF250 frame. He listed the engine parts and all straight aftermarket, no HRC. The Cryo treated transmission was not an HRC transmission, it was oem gears cryo treated.

You know, the very few people that do build complete HRC engines, never even start them and if you did, the probably wont run so well because you would have to have all the complete matched parts including the ignition that match the compression, porting, port timing, ignition timing, etc. so it runs well. It is hard enough just finding the correct parts for the period, but the exact spec parts for a combo, especially parts that are not really worn out, would be very hard to ensure you had a great running engine. I have a great running engine with all brand new parts, that I can started and ride up and down the street on Smile . This is what makes sense to me over a $15k+ engine that may not even run or run well, with parts you can't even see and admire.
4
Chance1216
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3/2/2020 5:49pm
Well, I’ll be the first to say although it was Dogger 315 I had in mind, it was Vintage Honda NL. Cornès build. I screen shot the page awhile back on my iPad. After searching this evening, yep I was wrong. Cornè went with the internals.
joelpbiker
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3/2/2020 6:14pm
I am interested in any non-HRC part that you may be willing to part with. You have been an inspiration for my build.
JMX82
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3/2/2020 10:11pm
There's full HRC motor for sale at Vintagehonda.nl


1
Tokyo_Tiddler
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3/3/2020 2:19pm
Chance1216 wrote:
Well, I’ll be the first to say although it was Dogger 315 I had in mind, it was Vintage Honda NL. Cornès build. I screen shot...
Well, I’ll be the first to say although it was Dogger 315 I had in mind, it was Vintage Honda NL. Cornès build. I screen shot the page awhile back on my iPad. After searching this evening, yep I was wrong. Cornè went with the internals.
I know Corne's build well.. he did build a complete HRC motor.

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