Since we're questioning a few things after Brian Moreau's crash...

YZ-MTB
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YZ-MTB 2/18/2020 12:54pm
2/18/2020 12:54pm
This issue has come up in mountain biking. The UCI banned mounting a camera to anything other than a bike in 2015 for all cycling disciplines. At the time there was speculation about whether there was any science that went into it, or whether it was more about controlling broadcast rights.

There are lots of options s for mounting a gopro. Top of helmet, side of helmet, under or in front of the chin guard, and chest mounts.

I'm not sure any one is safer or more dangerous than others. I often wear a chest mount, as I like the angle better than top of helmet. Cant say I'd want to center punch my sternum with my gopro in a crash, but the backing plate on the chest mount would provide some protection. Same if you have a chest protector on underneath the mount.

Gopro mounts are made of pretty flimsy plastic which should break away pretty easily. It's pretty common to see gopros get ejected in a crash and go tumbling down the track or trail.

Aj Catanzaro posted a POV video from Tampa press day where his gopro flew off in one of the rythm section and the track crew picked it up. Looked like a he hit his chest mount on the bars on a hard landing off a triple. Wasn't even a crash.

I'd be more concerned if there was a more rigid mounting system.
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Alex814
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Alex814 2/18/2020 1:15pm
2/18/2020 1:15pm
Alex814 wrote:
How about the AMA step up with a rule to prevent wearing a device on top of the helmet? Let the camera vendors figure it out...
How about the AMA step up with a rule to prevent wearing a device on top of the helmet? Let the camera vendors figure it out from there.
mxactive wrote:
In the Netherlands, it's not allowed by the Dutch federation KNMV to ride with GoPro (or other camera) on top of the helmet. But it's only...
In the Netherlands, it's not allowed by the Dutch federation KNMV to ride with GoPro (or other camera) on top of the helmet. But it's only for the National Races. GoPro is one of the sponsors of youthstream's MXGP World Championship.
Exactly my point, those goons wouldn't exactly be in uncharted waters by adding the rule.
Therefore, I believe it is fair to say that a conscious decision was made by the promoters of this series (AMA Supercross, an FIM World Championship) to prioritize the camera contract over the riders' safety.
McG194
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McG194 2/18/2020 1:30pm
2/18/2020 1:30pm
ReturnofJorddo wrote:
GoPros can be mounted under the visor, I'm pretty sure TWMX did a small article on it (in 2014?) I believe. Not honestly sure why most...
GoPros can be mounted under the visor, I'm pretty sure TWMX did a small article on it (in 2014?) I believe. Not honestly sure why most people don't mount it like that. Better POV, audio and safer.
I use a Pro Standard under visor mount and it is freaking great. One of the best POV's.

https://www.prostandard.com/collections/pro-standard/products/super-vis…

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McG194
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McG194 2/18/2020 1:35pm
2/18/2020 1:35pm
GuyB wrote:
Here's my .02. I'm questioning whether it's time for another form factor for Go Pro (or other brands) of action cameras. I think the cameras and...
Here's my .02. I'm questioning whether it's time for another form factor for Go Pro (or other brands) of action cameras.

I think the cameras and the footage they provide are amazing. They give us views that we'd never otherwise see, and open our eyes to what the riders really encounter out there. However, I'm starting to wonder whether the top of the helmet mounting is in a rider's best interest when it comes to safety.

Personally, I'd like to see another form factor that would allow for more compact mounting options. Something like what you see on the right.



Something like this could have a few benefits...like opening up under-visor options, and also moving the weight and mass more towards the center of the helmet...making it feel lighter and less cumbersome for the rider. It also removes the spike from the top of the helmet.

I'll be the first to concede that I'm not an engineer. I'm an end user. I also don't know if what I'm proposing is technically feasible. But I'm also thinking that there may be better options available for what we're trying to accomplish.
One great idea that never really caught on was the Liquid Image goggle. I had one and the camera lacked a bit but if you were at a slower speed the picture was great and the camera was right between your eyebrows.

https://www.amazon.com/Liquid-Image-Torque-Video-Goggles/dp/B008987IJG/…

Trouble was if the goggles got dirty you couldn't really throw them in the wash etc.

I personally hate the high view from the top of the helmet and the side helmet mounts are actually hard to watch. I get disoriented.
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big.dos
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big.dos 2/18/2020 2:12pm
2/18/2020 2:12pm
Jeremy Macbeth wrote:
Does having a small plastic device mounted on the top of a helmet contribute to and/or increase the likelihood of traumatic brain or cervical injuries? I...
Does having a small plastic device mounted on the top of a helmet contribute to and/or increase the likelihood of traumatic brain or cervical injuries?

I ask that in a scientific sense. Has this question been tested and proven/disproven scientifically?

To what degree does the deviation from a perfectly cylindrical encasement (e.g. arai's philosophy) contribute to and/or increase the likelihood of traumatic brain injury? For instance, does the shape of Cooper Webb's helmet increase/decrease/have no impact on aforementioned outcomes? And visa versa.

These are interesting questions.
Agree 100% with everything you have said here. My understanding was that MA (and similar sanctioning bodies internationally) were banning cameras on the outer shell of a helmet to negate the possibility of one snagging the ground or similar during a crash causing further injury. No different to the theory behind Fox's magnetic visors we saw last year. From what I understand the safest helmet design (shape wise) would be as smooth as possible as to minimise any additional injury from the shell catching the ground etc.

As for camera design, I run a GoPro Session under my visor - To me that seems to be the best solution both for safety and optimum camera angle.

Many interesting topics here....
Kiwimoto
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Kiwimoto 2/18/2020 3:06pm
2/18/2020 3:06pm
Tonynz wrote:
In New Zealand, we can’t run them in any MNZ event. It has been like this for about 4 years. No accessories can be attached to...
In New Zealand, we can’t run them in any MNZ event. It has been like this for about 4 years.
No accessories can be attached to helmet, this includes LITPro etc.
I think it's a great idea that MNZ did it all those years ago. Adding any type of camera mount to a helmet is modifying the helmet and who knows how the shell or design will hold up when the mount is the main point of impact.
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stillwelding
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stillwelding 2/18/2020 3:08pm
2/18/2020 3:08pm
GuyB wrote:
Here's my .02. I'm questioning whether it's time for another form factor for Go Pro (or other brands) of action cameras. I think the cameras and...
Here's my .02. I'm questioning whether it's time for another form factor for Go Pro (or other brands) of action cameras.

I think the cameras and the footage they provide are amazing. They give us views that we'd never otherwise see, and open our eyes to what the riders really encounter out there. However, I'm starting to wonder whether the top of the helmet mounting is in a rider's best interest when it comes to safety.

Personally, I'd like to see another form factor that would allow for more compact mounting options. Something like what you see on the right.



Something like this could have a few benefits...like opening up under-visor options, and also moving the weight and mass more towards the center of the helmet...making it feel lighter and less cumbersome for the rider. It also removes the spike from the top of the helmet.

I'll be the first to concede that I'm not an engineer. I'm an end user. I also don't know if what I'm proposing is technically feasible. But I'm also thinking that there may be better options available for what we're trying to accomplish.
Cambox, French.

https://store.camboxmeca.com/en/content/14-cambox-mkv4-pro
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ktmfun219
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ktmfun219 2/18/2020 3:26pm
2/18/2020 3:26pm
stillwelding wrote:
Cambox, French.

https://store.camboxmeca.com/en/content/14-cambox-mkv4-pro
GuyB wrote:
That's interesting...hadn't seen that one. Not sure how it'd interface with goggles, or if it'd affect ventilation.
All above supporting litigation means contrite to the known dangers of the sport. Let the users beware and proud.
VictorCamboxMeca 2/18/2020 3:45pm
2/18/2020 3:45pm
stillwelding wrote:
Cambox, French.

https://store.camboxmeca.com/en/content/14-cambox-mkv4-pro
GuyB wrote:
That's interesting...hadn't seen that one. Not sure how it'd interface with goggles, or if it'd affect ventilation.
Hi, please find here after a picture of the Cambox used with MX type helmet. It does not affect your vision and does not affect ventilation either. It is fastened using ultra grip velcro strips thus in the event of a crash it does not affect the helmet protective role. Sportively ✌️


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Alex.434
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Alex.434 2/18/2020 4:26pm
2/18/2020 4:26pm
A 'full size' GoPro Hero 8 mounts just fine under the visor. Solved. Watching the WESS series (Europe based) all the pro riders with the 'official GoPros' have them mounted under the visor. Sessions for sure but think I've also seen the full size ones too.

You can also run chest mount system. GoPro athlete and professional mtb rider Aaron Chase puts all the mounting stuff under his jersey, cuts a tiny slid in the jersey for the GoPro mounting tabs to go thru, and just the camera sits 'outside' of the jersey, so it has a minimal impact on covering up anything on the jersey (a 2" x 3" impact)

Iridereallyslow 2/18/2020 4:37pm
2/18/2020 4:37pm
Why does everybody need a helmet camera anyways? I understand a professional racer or serious amateur could benefit from reviewing the footage. But why people (weekend warrior to casual riders) are so fascinated by rewatching something they’ve already experienced in first person?
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soggy
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soggy 2/18/2020 4:47pm
2/18/2020 4:47pm
500guy wrote:
Maybe the lens should be part of the helmet and wireless transmit or small cable to a box on the bike with safety disconnect. All I...
Maybe the lens should be part of the helmet and wireless transmit or small cable to a box on the bike with safety disconnect.

All I know is that the Medical crew does a great job and I would not try to second guess what they do.
the medical crew did a fucking horrible job, what are you talking about?
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RPM68
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RPM68 2/18/2020 5:14pm
2/18/2020 5:14pm



Can’t beat the chin mount!
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4DAIVIPAI2K5
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4DAIVIPAI2K5 2/18/2020 5:23pm
2/18/2020 5:23pm
stillwelding wrote:
Cambox, French.

https://store.camboxmeca.com/en/content/14-cambox-mkv4-pro
GuyB wrote:
That's interesting...hadn't seen that one. Not sure how it'd interface with goggles, or if it'd affect ventilation.
VictorCamboxMeca wrote:
Hi, please find here after a picture of the Cambox used with MX type helmet. It does not affect your vision and does not affect ventilation...
Hi, please find here after a picture of the Cambox used with MX type helmet. It does not affect your vision and does not affect ventilation either. It is fastened using ultra grip velcro strips thus in the event of a crash it does not affect the helmet protective role. Sportively ✌️


That looks great. If I had the spare money I would pick one up.
side-pipe
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side-pipe 2/18/2020 5:42pm
2/18/2020 5:42pm
there was a goggle with integrated camera a while back.
MOTOXSTATION 2/18/2020 5:46pm
2/18/2020 5:46pm
How would we get 360 footage like the RYLO if not mounted above the rider?

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colintrax
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colintrax 2/18/2020 5:49pm
2/18/2020 5:49pm
Iridereallyslow wrote:
Why does everybody need a helmet camera anyways? I understand a professional racer or serious amateur could benefit from reviewing the footage. But why people (weekend...
Why does everybody need a helmet camera anyways? I understand a professional racer or serious amateur could benefit from reviewing the footage. But why people (weekend warrior to casual riders) are so fascinated by rewatching something they’ve already experienced in first person?
To show off when I finally hit the big triple.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 2/18/2020 5:51pm
2/18/2020 5:51pm
ML512 wrote:
It's a shame the session from GoPro didn't sell well. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/02/18/405195/s1200_31cKXd0Wv_L._AC.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/02/18/405196/s1200_s600_50F2B09A_6B81_4C21_8915_B3D6424679F5.jpg[/img]
It's a shame the session from GoPro didn't sell well.



I really like this setup. I saw a guy at a practice track last summer with this setup as well , using a Reflex HD like what Trey Canard used to use. Shaped like the camera Dtat720 posted. Never been a fan of a big GoPro on top of a helmet.
500guy
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500guy 2/18/2020 6:03pm
2/18/2020 6:03pm
soggy wrote:
the medical crew did a fucking horrible job, what are you talking about?
Unless you were there and know why they did what the did shut the fuck up.
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Rider972
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Rider972 2/18/2020 6:05pm
2/18/2020 6:05pm
A camera didn't hurt this kid lack of experience on a Pro Supercross track did. You guys have to be kidding me te GoPro would have just broken off. I am not sure what the FIM's reason for letting European Riders just hop onto a Profesional Supercross track is without having to go through the Futures program like American riders do but that is exactly why it was started to get young inexperienced riders a chance to race on a mellowed out track but still on the big stage and yes the FIM is the true governing body of supercross they stole it from the AMA on a technicality almost 20 years ago the AMA is there by name only. That kid never should have been out there in the first place so if you want to blame someone blame the FIM! I doubt camera no camera neck brace no neck brace or anything else would have helped him the way he went down was horrifying you knew right away something bad had happened. Thats why they wont release the crash footage they have it but its not something that should be plastered all over the internet. I just pray when the swelling goes down he will get full feeling back in his lower body. It can take 66 months for nerves to heal up so just send him positive comments and thoughts to help him in his recovery since the people who hold these events really dropped the ball with rider safety on this one.
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soggy
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soggy 2/18/2020 6:14pm
2/18/2020 6:14pm
soggy wrote:
the medical crew did a fucking horrible job, what are you talking about?
500guy wrote:
Unless you were there and know why they did what the did shut the fuck up.
rule number 1 of a spinal injury is keep them as still as possible. they were dragging him off the track by his armpits.
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brocster
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brocster 2/18/2020 7:35pm
2/18/2020 7:35pm
soggy wrote:
the medical crew did a fucking horrible job, what are you talking about?
500guy wrote:
Unless you were there and know why they did what the did shut the fuck up.
Disagree Jay. The schedule and the “show” prevailed over safety on this one no matter which way you slice it. If he could have walked, limped, crawled off I am sure he gladly would have.

Helmets are designed to be for the most part round or spherical for a reason and I am sure mounting square edge ornaments on them defeat the intent and purpose of helmet design.

FortyHat
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FortyHat 2/18/2020 7:40pm
2/18/2020 7:40pm
Alex.434 wrote:
A 'full size' GoPro Hero 8 mounts just fine under the visor. Solved. Watching the WESS series (Europe based) all the pro riders with the 'official...
A 'full size' GoPro Hero 8 mounts just fine under the visor. Solved. Watching the WESS series (Europe based) all the pro riders with the 'official GoPros' have them mounted under the visor. Sessions for sure but think I've also seen the full size ones too.

You can also run chest mount system. GoPro athlete and professional mtb rider Aaron Chase puts all the mounting stuff under his jersey, cuts a tiny slid in the jersey for the GoPro mounting tabs to go thru, and just the camera sits 'outside' of the jersey, so it has a minimal impact on covering up anything on the jersey (a 2" x 3" impact)

You can definitely use a full size GoPro under the visor, you just need a different backing plate on the frame/housing (though you won't be able to see the touchscreen with the cam in the housing, but that doesn't really matter).




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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 2/18/2020 7:40pm
2/18/2020 7:40pm
GuyB wrote:
Here's my .02. I'm questioning whether it's time for another form factor for Go Pro (or other brands) of action cameras. I think the cameras and...
Here's my .02. I'm questioning whether it's time for another form factor for Go Pro (or other brands) of action cameras.

I think the cameras and the footage they provide are amazing. They give us views that we'd never otherwise see, and open our eyes to what the riders really encounter out there. However, I'm starting to wonder whether the top of the helmet mounting is in a rider's best interest when it comes to safety.

Personally, I'd like to see another form factor that would allow for more compact mounting options. Something like what you see on the right.



Something like this could have a few benefits...like opening up under-visor options, and also moving the weight and mass more towards the center of the helmet...making it feel lighter and less cumbersome for the rider. It also removes the spike from the top of the helmet.

I'll be the first to concede that I'm not an engineer. I'm an end user. I also don't know if what I'm proposing is technically feasible. But I'm also thinking that there may be better options available for what we're trying to accomplish.
McG194 wrote:
One great idea that never really caught on was the Liquid Image goggle. I had one and the camera lacked a bit but if you were...
One great idea that never really caught on was the Liquid Image goggle. I had one and the camera lacked a bit but if you were at a slower speed the picture was great and the camera was right between your eyebrows.

https://www.amazon.com/Liquid-Image-Torque-Video-Goggles/dp/B008987IJG/…

Trouble was if the goggles got dirty you couldn't really throw them in the wash etc.

I personally hate the high view from the top of the helmet and the side helmet mounts are actually hard to watch. I get disoriented.
I won a liquid image goggle in a raffle. For Moto it worked great, but was unreliable and didn’t charge well and soon not at all. With the constant miniaturization of tech it would be great if it was licensed to all the current goggle suppliers - or at least one!
7I3N
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7I3N 2/18/2020 7:50pm
2/18/2020 7:50pm
side-pipe wrote:
there was a goggle with integrated camera a while back.
Liquid Image Goggles. I've had mine for several years. Love em.


scott_nz 2/18/2020 7:56pm
2/18/2020 7:56pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2020 8:06pm
Tonynz wrote:
In New Zealand, we can’t run them in any MNZ event. It has been like this for about 4 years. No accessories can be attached to...
In New Zealand, we can’t run them in any MNZ event. It has been like this for about 4 years.
No accessories can be attached to helmet, this includes LITPro etc.
The FIM actually banned them, thats why MNZ and MA did he same,

they just don't enforce it in thier own professional championships, (SX, and MX) for some reason,

the reason given is that the safety standard is voided by the go pro mount and the go pro itself, Aussie rules are even harsher than ours, they ban all stickers as well on helmets,
Black Diesel Bomber 2/18/2020 7:58pm
2/18/2020 7:58pm
Iridereallyslow wrote:
Why does everybody need a helmet camera anyways? I understand a professional racer or serious amateur could benefit from reviewing the footage. But why people (weekend...
Why does everybody need a helmet camera anyways? I understand a professional racer or serious amateur could benefit from reviewing the footage. But why people (weekend warrior to casual riders) are so fascinated by rewatching something they’ve already experienced in first person?
I've worn one several times, and I even used to duct tape Hi8 camcorders to my helmet during Baja rides in the early 2000's. I'll have to dig up some photos of that. Talk about adding a heavy load on top of the helmet...

But to your point, I don't think I've watched more than 5% of all the helmet cam footage I have. But maybe some day when i'm an old fogey in a recliner I'll dig into them.
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drifto614
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drifto614 2/18/2020 8:23pm
2/18/2020 8:23pm
soggy wrote:
rule number 1 of a spinal injury is keep them as still as possible. they were dragging him off the track by his armpits.
Exactly, someone had to have seen him pile drive himself. These cameras break away just like the visors do. If they are conscious, minimal movement and then first rule of thumb of a potential head or neck injury is neck brace or spineboard. They just dragged him off and then sat him upright. The kid has a fractured C7 vertebrae and he's being bounced around all the way back to the medic trailer.

Post a reply to: Since we're questioning a few things after Brian Moreau's crash...