LL PW50 legal engine mods?

mikec265
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2/3/2020 7:17pm
mikec265 wrote:
This is why we need a mini dad section.
GuyB wrote:
Why? So you guys don't go ape-spit on them? It's okay to not post in threads where you have no dog in the fight, or no...
Why? So you guys don't go ape-spit on them?

It's okay to not post in threads where you have no dog in the fight, or no interest in the topic.
I wasn't trying to go ape-spit. I'm a non racing minidad. It would be nice to read mini threads without all the nonsense posts. A minidad section would be nice. It's kinda ridiculous when a guy is trying to be a good dad looking for info, and gets shit on for it.
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2/3/2020 10:00pm
Don’t try and mod it yourself, you’ll just end up dumping time and money.
Either buy one direct from Pro Flow or Barrs or look for one if the 42 being sold during the 2nd week of August.
brlatm
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2/4/2020 12:18am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2020 12:21am
I know in 2012 a friend of mines kid was tied for the lead going into the 3rd moto and had 1-3 scores going in when the 7yr old I believe bike gave up and wouldn't start. It was bone stock and was used as a pit bike mainly before LL.

Good luck to your kid if he makes it, but sometimes talent trumps HP.
Press516
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2/4/2020 5:02am
My grandson is about to hit 2... He rides around on my lap on the pit bike. When he comes over, day or night the first thing he asks for is a ride on the "dirt bike". I know I'm in trouble, and even worse, I can probably afford it.

I guess I need to check out Pro Flow. Wink
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The Shop

rockinit
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2/4/2020 5:13am
Man, if anyone does have what brand bearings or numbers and gave them up they would be stupid. Why would someone give something up that they worked on for countless hours or days even to figure out. Plus there is more that goes into building those PW motors than just changing bearings. You are going to dump a couple hundred bucks into bearings and see very little to no gain unless you do everything else that is involved in it. Best advice is to you is send it to someone that does it for a living. You could mess around with the wrong parts and have an illegal bike before you know it and those PDub dads don’t play they will have one listen to your bike and have it torn down.
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motofam923
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2/4/2020 5:18am
It’s frustrating when you have a bunch of people commenting on things they don’t really know the truth about. We were at Loretta’s this year in the shaft class . The kid who’s dad protested wasn’t the only one not legal , but he was DQ Nontheless. 3 bikes were DQ. In the protest There weren’t all pro flo bikes . There were cycle works ( all were 100% legal) and also performance cycle built bikes . The pro flo issue was with cylinder chamfering that has never been made clear as to what exactly is legal and what isn’t ( going to far into the ports and such ) so the AMA referee in 2019 just decided to DQ for chamfering at all. top 8 were also protested at red bud and every one of them was legal. Just to clear that up .
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motofam923
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2/4/2020 5:24am
Now to the bearing question and legal mod question .

1) the reason when you buy bearings from pro flo that the numbers are ground off and they come in a plastic bag is Bc that’s what he does for a living . He did the work to find them and know that information and if they were just floating around everyone would have them and there would be no reason to pay him .of course bearings aren’t all he does

2) interestingly enough the only people I’ve ever met trying to figure out these numbers have countless amounts of illegal mods. If you’re running your pdub with the torpedo out of the exhaust, wiseco piston, no oil Injection, pax transmission gear , HD clutch springs , holes in your air box, etc . Bearings aren’t gonna do shit for you because the first AQ you show up to you’re gonna have a line of people tearing you down before you go out for your first moto . not worth it .
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2/4/2020 5:30am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2020 12:04pm
Press516 wrote:
My grandson is about to hit 2... He rides around on my lap on the pit bike. When he comes over, day or night the first...
My grandson is about to hit 2... He rides around on my lap on the pit bike. When he comes over, day or night the first thing he asks for is a ride on the "dirt bike". I know I'm in trouble, and even worse, I can probably afford it.

I guess I need to check out Pro Flow. Wink
Edited: Misinterpreted the comment.
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STLSharky
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2/4/2020 5:32am
MXOHIOGUY wrote:
What are the do's and don'ts ? Does anyone have a clear list of the AMA rules for the PW? Can you run aftermarket bearing? Not...
What are the do's and don'ts ?
Does anyone have a clear list of the AMA rules for the PW?

Can you run aftermarket bearing? Not ceramic.
SKF is the best, can anyone confirm or deny?
SKF part numbers?

Does the extra HP Pro Flow claims just come from less friction(better bearings)?

I figure if I can spend a few hundred dollars on bearings and get some much needed HP it's worth it.
No whiskey throttle wins the race
Press516
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2/4/2020 6:10am
Press516 wrote:
My grandson is about to hit 2... He rides around on my lap on the pit bike. When he comes over, day or night the first...
My grandson is about to hit 2... He rides around on my lap on the pit bike. When he comes over, day or night the first thing he asks for is a ride on the "dirt bike". I know I'm in trouble, and even worse, I can probably afford it.

I guess I need to check out Pro Flow. Wink
Edited: Misinterpreted the comment.
ROFL... He's about 2. Fly's his balance bike, I should get a photo up of his balance bike nac nac... Laughing

And it was years ago, but I went in to Ponca in '79 at 15 as the #1 qualifier from the west in 125 expert, I know the routine. I also know how wrong it can go, as I left Ponca that year with a torn ACL.

80 Expert at WMGP... Photo below is dicing with Chris Heisser. Scott Burnworth won that 80 mod class.

So it's still years out, but if he wants to ride, I am on 1.5 acres and can turn the pit bike loop in to a practice track in nothing flat...

Because I said I could afford a Pro Flow?? Not sure where you are going with your comment. Huh

Moto Dad's (or Grandad's) can give the kid a great experience without being a bitch.


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MXOHIOGUY
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2/4/2020 6:32am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2020 6:44am
motofam923 wrote:
Now to the bearing question and legal mod question . 1) the reason when you buy bearings from pro flo that the numbers are ground off...
Now to the bearing question and legal mod question .

1) the reason when you buy bearings from pro flo that the numbers are ground off and they come in a plastic bag is Bc that’s what he does for a living . He did the work to find them and know that information and if they were just floating around everyone would have them and there would be no reason to pay him .of course bearings aren’t all he does

2) interestingly enough the only people I’ve ever met trying to figure out these numbers have countless amounts of illegal mods. If you’re running your pdub with the torpedo out of the exhaust, wiseco piston, no oil Injection, pax transmission gear , HD clutch springs , holes in your air box, etc . Bearings aren’t gonna do shit for you because the first AQ you show up to you’re gonna have a line of people tearing you down before you go out for your first moto . not worth it .
It's the American way.
With a simple Google search I found the bearing brand.
Once you pull the factory bearings all you have to do is go to a bearing house that distributes that brand of bearing.

Switch
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2/4/2020 7:00am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2020 7:01am
brlatm wrote:
I know in 2012 a friend of mines kid was tied for the lead going into the 3rd moto and had 1-3 scores going in when...
I know in 2012 a friend of mines kid was tied for the lead going into the 3rd moto and had 1-3 scores going in when the 7yr old I believe bike gave up and wouldn't start. It was bone stock and was used as a pit bike mainly before LL.

Good luck to your kid if he makes it, but sometimes talent trumps HP.
Oddly enough, I was there that year too with one of the pdub riders. If that’s the kid I’m thinking of from Wyoming (pretty sure it is) he got a horrible start in the third moto and went down on the blind side of the inside single coming out of “storyland”. Flaggers didn’t get the other kids to go outside, causing the kid and his bike to be landed on by about 8 other bikes while the kid from Ohio cruised to an easy win and and the OA.

Not sure why the moto 3 start was bad for him, but I don’t remember any protests that year. Those 2 were just on a different skill level at the time. Thinking back, i haven’t heard either of their names since that day.
slipdog
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2/4/2020 7:01am
Hahaha... Classic!
motofam923
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2/4/2020 7:12am
motofam923 wrote:
Now to the bearing question and legal mod question . 1) the reason when you buy bearings from pro flo that the numbers are ground off...
Now to the bearing question and legal mod question .

1) the reason when you buy bearings from pro flo that the numbers are ground off and they come in a plastic bag is Bc that’s what he does for a living . He did the work to find them and know that information and if they were just floating around everyone would have them and there would be no reason to pay him .of course bearings aren’t all he does

2) interestingly enough the only people I’ve ever met trying to figure out these numbers have countless amounts of illegal mods. If you’re running your pdub with the torpedo out of the exhaust, wiseco piston, no oil Injection, pax transmission gear , HD clutch springs , holes in your air box, etc . Bearings aren’t gonna do shit for you because the first AQ you show up to you’re gonna have a line of people tearing you down before you go out for your first moto . not worth it .
MXOHIOGUY wrote:
It's the American way. With a simple Google search I found the bearing brand. Once you pull the factory bearings all you have to do is...
It's the American way.
With a simple Google search I found the bearing brand.
Once you pull the factory bearings all you have to do is go to a bearing house that distributes that brand of bearing.

Good luck with google, Hope you find what you’re looking for . skf is common knowledge . It’s everything else
lumpy790
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2/4/2020 8:12am
There are a hand full of PW50 builders out there that know what works and what is still “legal”and pass tear down.

Stopped by Barrs Competition last year and they were building about 30-40 “legal stock” PW50’s and they have been building them for Lorettas champions for about 40 years.
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oceantrav
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2/4/2020 8:33am
lumpy790 wrote:
There are a hand full of PW50 builders out there that know what works and what is still “legal”and pass tear down. Stopped by Barrs Competition...
There are a hand full of PW50 builders out there that know what works and what is still “legal”and pass tear down.

Stopped by Barrs Competition last year and they were building about 30-40 “legal stock” PW50’s and they have been building them for Lorettas champions for about 40 years.
Sounds like barrs got it wrong last year, my understanding is their bikes are the ones that got DQ’d at LL

I just bought a Pro Flo bike, made my decision easy
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motofam923
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2/4/2020 8:40am
lumpy790 wrote:
There are a hand full of PW50 builders out there that know what works and what is still “legal”and pass tear down. Stopped by Barrs Competition...
There are a hand full of PW50 builders out there that know what works and what is still “legal”and pass tear down.

Stopped by Barrs Competition last year and they were building about 30-40 “legal stock” PW50’s and they have been building them for Lorettas champions for about 40 years.
oceantrav wrote:
Sounds like barrs got it wrong last year, my understanding is their bikes are the ones that got DQ’d at LL I just bought a Pro...
Sounds like barrs got it wrong last year, my understanding is their bikes are the ones that got DQ’d at LL

I just bought a Pro Flo bike, made my decision easy
Nah there were no barrs bikes in the protest in 2019. But they’re definitely not the way to go , not the same as when Bobby was in charge . Used to be awesome.
lumpy790
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2/4/2020 8:43am
lumpy790 wrote:
There are a hand full of PW50 builders out there that know what works and what is still “legal”and pass tear down. Stopped by Barrs Competition...
There are a hand full of PW50 builders out there that know what works and what is still “legal”and pass tear down.

Stopped by Barrs Competition last year and they were building about 30-40 “legal stock” PW50’s and they have been building them for Lorettas champions for about 40 years.
oceantrav wrote:
Sounds like barrs got it wrong last year, my understanding is their bikes are the ones that got DQ’d at LL I just bought a Pro...
Sounds like barrs got it wrong last year, my understanding is their bikes are the ones that got DQ’d at LL

I just bought a Pro Flo bike, made my decision easy
motofam923 wrote:
Nah there were no barrs bikes in the protest in 2019. But they’re definitely not the way to go , not the same as when Bobby...
Nah there were no barrs bikes in the protest in 2019. But they’re definitely not the way to go , not the same as when Bobby was in charge . Used to be awesome.
Bobby is still there just letting his SX champion son and grandson running it.
motofam923
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2/4/2020 8:46am
oceantrav wrote:
Sounds like barrs got it wrong last year, my understanding is their bikes are the ones that got DQ’d at LL I just bought a Pro...
Sounds like barrs got it wrong last year, my understanding is their bikes are the ones that got DQ’d at LL

I just bought a Pro Flo bike, made my decision easy
motofam923 wrote:
Nah there were no barrs bikes in the protest in 2019. But they’re definitely not the way to go , not the same as when Bobby...
Nah there were no barrs bikes in the protest in 2019. But they’re definitely not the way to go , not the same as when Bobby was in charge . Used to be awesome.
lumpy790 wrote:
Bobby is still there just letting his SX champion son and grandson running it.
Exactly . Rodney. And he’s not doing a great job lol
49weasel
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2/4/2020 8:50am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2020 8:51am
I’m pretty sure Pro Flo is the best way to go. A lot of people speak highly of the owner.

2/4/2020 8:57am
Press516 wrote:
ROFL... He's about 2. Fly's his balance bike, I should get a photo up of his balance bike nac nac... :laugh: And it was years ago...
ROFL... He's about 2. Fly's his balance bike, I should get a photo up of his balance bike nac nac... Laughing

And it was years ago, but I went in to Ponca in '79 at 15 as the #1 qualifier from the west in 125 expert, I know the routine. I also know how wrong it can go, as I left Ponca that year with a torn ACL.

80 Expert at WMGP... Photo below is dicing with Chris Heisser. Scott Burnworth won that 80 mod class.

So it's still years out, but if he wants to ride, I am on 1.5 acres and can turn the pit bike loop in to a practice track in nothing flat...

Because I said I could afford a Pro Flow?? Not sure where you are going with your comment. Huh

Moto Dad's (or Grandad's) can give the kid a great experience without being a bitch.


On a completely unrelated note to this thread. Did you know Jason Graul? A very fast rider from your area. He was probably a few years older than you. He moved here (to KY) from Arizona around 1974-75. (BTW, I apparently misunderstood your original comment [based on your response.])
Press516
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2/4/2020 9:31am
On a completely unrelated note to this thread. Did you know Jason Graul? A very fast rider from your area. He was probably a few years...
On a completely unrelated note to this thread. Did you know Jason Graul? A very fast rider from your area. He was probably a few years older than you. He moved here (to KY) from Arizona around 1974-75. (BTW, I apparently misunderstood your original comment [based on your response.])
All good... I'm unfamiliar with that name, might have just missed him. I got my first YZ80 in '75 and that's when racing began.

I understand some people above thinking that money spent on a PW50 is wasteful... But even a decent mom and pop racing program will include proper maintenance and race prep on a race bike. We would go through 4 YZ80's a year since we raced and practiced on the same bikes and there were multiple stock and mod classes. I think today the better route is a practice bike and a race bike or bikes. And if planning and prepping for a LL run, a premium built race bike isn't unreasonable, even in the shaft class.

Talent is still king, but practice, training and talent supported with a proper race bike is simply doing your best, no matter who you are. Am I missing something?
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Austin_Rankin
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2/4/2020 10:24am
If any more info gets released about all this i someone gets paid to pull this thread lol
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Fox88
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2/4/2020 10:57am
A few clarifications for you guys:

1. You are allowed to use aftermarket bearings as long as they are the same class and fit as the stock bearings.

2. If a bearing has any identifying markings ground off, they will be deemed to be illegal.

3. NO chamfering of any ports is allowed in the PW50 class. The only time chamfering has ever been legal is in the replating process. I'm pretty sure the PW50 is not a plated cylinder thus no chamfering allowed.


Hope this helps. Please send any further questions to


mburkeen@ama-cycle.org


I can't remember who said this but no one has ever put it better:


"Don't mod the bike, mod the kid!"


And before anyone complains, this is not a reference to Performance Enhancing Drugs.
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ElliotB16
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2/4/2020 10:59am
My kid is 5 on a pw50. Where do I get these racing bearings??
motofam923
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2/4/2020 11:01am
ElliotB16 wrote:
My kid is 5 on a pw50. Where do I get these racing bearings??
Call pro flo
LungButter
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2/4/2020 11:06am
Are the "race built" PWs done up with Titanium Fasteners? Seems like a bike/class where any weight savings would be huge.

TeamGreen
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2/4/2020 11:06am
Don't you just look up the comparable bearing, let's say SKF per this thread, using the part number from the stock bearings?
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Badd127
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2/4/2020 12:03pm
I got my 6 years old boy a PW50, and he's not even interested in riding it.
Fuck it, I'll get some of these bearings. Maybe his younger sister will take an interest in it.Silly
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