Motocross Etiquette

MPJC wrote:

This is strange. I've never met anyone who thinks that cross jumping is ok. The concept of right of way doesn't enter into it. This isn't...

This is strange. I've never met anyone who thinks that cross jumping is ok. The concept of right of way doesn't enter into it. This isn't the freeway. The concept of right of way enters into a determination of who is legally liable when someone is rear-ended in traffic, but again, that doesn't mean that it's ok to randomly slam on your brakes in traffic. I'm pretty sure that if the police observed someone randomly slamming on their brakes while driving they'd write them up for dangerous driving. You seem to be operating under the assumption that there's some simple principle that is key, and if we can identify it and apply it, all ambiguity and need for human judgment will vanish. That can't work - especially when we're talking about something as inherently subjective as etiquette - something that is based on implicit, shared understandings that only exist in so far as people accept them.

Nerd wrote:

Where did I say cross-jumping is okay? Please quote me.

cbarber wrote:

see your pic you posted above for reference.

Nerd wrote:

That’s not a straightaway. And both racers are heading down-track.

buzz06 wrote:

Yes Craig left the door open but Tomac took the same exact line as Ferrandis and didn’t clean anyone out. That’s why I said ultimately it...

Yes Craig left the door open but Tomac took the same exact line as Ferrandis and didn’t clean anyone out. That’s why I said ultimately it comes down to ambition outweighing talent. If he wouldn’t have lost the front and crashed into Craig none of these threads would exist.

Nerd wrote:

Because when Tomac did it, Webb checked up, got off the gas, and dived underneath! That’s what Craig should’ve done.

MPJC wrote:

"If you’re in front, you can go where you want." What could this possibly mean other that "it's ok to go where you want"? Do we...

"If you’re in front, you can go where you want." What could this possibly mean other that "it's ok to go where you want"? Do we need to start debating the meaning of "can"?

Nerd wrote:

So, you can’t quote me. Try again.

Nerd wrote:

For the uninitiated, who seem to be confused, maybe I can help: It seems like we’ve lost track of basic motocross etiquette. People seem to think...

For the uninitiated, who seem to be confused, maybe I can help:

It seems like we’ve lost track of basic motocross etiquette. People seem to think you can leave a door wide open and it’s “not fair” for the (faster) guy behind you to try and go through that door.

Bullshit. It’s their *job* to go through that open door! It’s *your* job not to open it! Don’t leave the door open! And if you do, don’t act surprised when someone goes through that open door!

That’s how moto works! It’s simple, consistent, and historically accurate as well! This is how everybody has always judged cases of motocross etiquette, and that’s what this Ferrandis/Craig incident really is. It’s about etiquette. Who has the right of way? The rider in front! “For how long?” There’s no minimum amount of time someone needs to be in front to have the right of way. Whoever is ahead at the precise moment that a bad thing (collision) happens has the right to be wherever they are on the track *because* they’re ahead of the other person (as long as they are on the track).

Be aware of who’s in front and behind you, and act accordingly! If you do not act accordingly, it’s not up to anybody *else* to change racing etiquette so that the person who left the door open is absolved of all responsibility for their own actions! If you leave the door open when you know a faster racer (or *any* racer) is right on your ass, you fucked up! It’s that simple!

So, whoever’s wheel is behind when the two bikes hit, they’re the one who is at fault for whatever negative consequences result from the collision. Because either they tried to go through a door that wasn’t open enough (often resulting in a T-bone), or they let someone through their open door and then tried to close the door on them after it was too late.

This is how it works and has always worked.

Who is ahead here?

MPJC wrote:

I did quote you. The context of that quote is a paragraph about cross -jumping or drifting over when skimming whoops.

Nerd wrote:

Is that the same post where I said, “Cross-jumping is dirty. Any racer who cross-jumps on purpose, or who drifts across skimming whoops into other racers’...

Is that the same post where I said, “Cross-jumping is dirty. Any racer who cross-jumps on purpose, or who drifts across skimming whoops into other racers’ lines, should be dispensed with at the earliest opportunity.”?

cbarber wrote:

But...If I am on the freeway passing the guy next to me and my front bumper gets past his and I make my move into his...

But...If I am on the freeway passing the guy next to me and my front bumper gets past his and I make my move into his line, its now his problem to deal with. I can go wherever I want because I am ahead right?

MPJC wrote:

Yes. I'm not trying to argue that you think cross-jumping is ok. I'm sure you don't. I'm arguing that your argument is incoherent. Which it is.

Nerd wrote:

It’s not. But as with anything, I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.

Nerd wrote:

Any racers who disagree are biased. The racer who reaches the intersection first is the racer who has the right of way. If people disagree, what...

Any racers who disagree are biased.

The racer who reaches the intersection first is the racer who has the right of way.

If people disagree, what they’re saying is that racers should be able to leave a door wide open and not expect anybody to try and go through that door. It’s nonsense. This is professional racing.