Health insurance for self-employed families

mikec265
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1668
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10/19/2015
Location
Edinboro, PA, USA
I am self-employed with a family of 5. Looking for a health insurance plan that covers moto injuries, and bad things such as cancer expenses. Currently everyone is 100% healthy.

Basically we are looking for a plan that won't put us in financial ruins if something really bad happens.

If you're self-employed with a higher income, what insurance are you using, and what's the cost of the plan?
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MelonFan123
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1556
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8/20/2006
Location
Ventura/LA County, CA, USA
12/2/2019 4:52pm
Also curious about this. My wife and I are both self-employed and currently have our own policies. We are expecting our first child in April/May and want to look into a single family plan for the 3 of us.
1
500guy
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12469
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
12/2/2019 5:46pm
I have a HSA, High deductible United Health Care plan

My Wife and myself on the plan, $3400 a quarter = $13,600 a year with a $7,000 deductible.

Works out to $1180 a month if We stay healthy, $1750.00 a month if we don't.

borg
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6886
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Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
12/2/2019 6:04pm
I'm not going to go into detail about my medical history but my advice is that you get catastrophic coverage only. Get covered for stuff that will bankrupt you and that's it. The more comprehensive your insurance is, the harder they are fucking you. Even then, the fine print is the size of a phone book. Insurance companies are not on your side. They are not your friend.

I'm not even sure that those policies are even available because initially, the ACA banned them. But maybe they are now.
2
500guy
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Location
USA
12/2/2019 6:16pm
borg wrote:
I'm not going to go into detail about my medical history but my advice is that you get catastrophic coverage only. Get covered for stuff that...
I'm not going to go into detail about my medical history but my advice is that you get catastrophic coverage only. Get covered for stuff that will bankrupt you and that's it. The more comprehensive your insurance is, the harder they are fucking you. Even then, the fine print is the size of a phone book. Insurance companies are not on your side. They are not your friend.

I'm not even sure that those policies are even available because initially, the ACA banned them. But maybe they are now.
They are not, The Law to penalize the people without insurance has been repealed or Suspended, everything else is the same.

The Shop

borg
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Long Beach, CA, USA
12/2/2019 6:18pm
borg wrote:
I'm not going to go into detail about my medical history but my advice is that you get catastrophic coverage only. Get covered for stuff that...
I'm not going to go into detail about my medical history but my advice is that you get catastrophic coverage only. Get covered for stuff that will bankrupt you and that's it. The more comprehensive your insurance is, the harder they are fucking you. Even then, the fine print is the size of a phone book. Insurance companies are not on your side. They are not your friend.

I'm not even sure that those policies are even available because initially, the ACA banned them. But maybe they are now.
500guy wrote:
They are not, The Law to penalize the people without insurance has been repealed or Suspended, everything else is the same.
Are you saying that the catastrophic only policies ARE available now or not?
500guy
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USA
12/2/2019 6:28pm
borg wrote:
Are you saying that the catastrophic only policies ARE available now or not?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but AHCA Obama care made those catastrophic policies Illegal.


So to my knowledge you can't buy one.
borg
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Long Beach, CA, USA
12/2/2019 6:38pm
borg wrote:
Are you saying that the catastrophic only policies ARE available now or not?
500guy wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but AHCA Obama care made those catastrophic policies Illegal.


So to my knowledge you can't buy one.
Things have changed a bit so I wasn't sure. That was the only kind of health insurance policy I would have purchased. WTF?
mikec265
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1668
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Location
Edinboro, PA, USA
12/2/2019 10:04pm
It looks to me like catastrophic plans are available, BUT only for those under 30 years old. If you are over 30 you must qualify for a hardship to get that insurance.

I am 35, wife is 33, and the kids are 5, 3, and 1. No hardships to qualify for, and trying to avoid hardships to begin with.

I do know under an income of $41600 health Care is free for a family of 5, $41600 to $75000 it's discounted, and over that if self employed it's looking like 900 to $1700 a month. Health insurance for the self employed is a 100% write off so that helps some come tax time.

At this point I am looking for the cheapest insurance that will 100% cover catastrophic situations. I've skimmed by for free the last few years building my business up, and living way below our means, but it's time to pay up now.
I wish Obamacare didn't raise the cost for successful self-employed people so much.
It's like you get penalized for doing well in life, or get rewarded for being a slacker.
1
Deja New
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2784
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Location
AU
12/2/2019 10:27pm
reading all these make me appreciate our system in Australia. W don't need health cover injuries i just go to hospital and get fixed being self employed you do need income protection but its not that expensive. Must be a scary thought getting hurt over in the states it could ruin you if your not covered.
6
hard2kill
Posts
374
Joined
9/8/2010
Location
Flag Pond, TN, USA
12/3/2019 6:28am
Deja New wrote:
reading all these make me appreciate our system in Australia. W don't need health cover injuries i just go to hospital and get fixed being self...
reading all these make me appreciate our system in Australia. W don't need health cover injuries i just go to hospital and get fixed being self employed you do need income protection but its not that expensive. Must be a scary thought getting hurt over in the states it could ruin you if your not covered.
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath care cost (not saying it hasn't happened). In most cases You could literally have no insurance and experience a catastrophic expense then make payments on that expense easier than you could purchase your own plan.
12/3/2019 6:47am
borg wrote:
Are you saying that the catastrophic only policies ARE available now or not?
500guy wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but AHCA Obama care made those catastrophic policies Illegal.


So to my knowledge you can't buy one.
What you have now is catastrophe insurance.
Do you realize that with your plan they pay nothing till you pay the first 7,000?
For your monthly cost, don't you think your healthcare should be "free" with no deductable?

This is what you posted. Unless there is a catastrophe over 7 grand, you have nothing.

500Guy:
I have a HSA, High deductible United Health Care plan

My Wife and myself on the plan, $3400 a quarter = $13,600 a year with a $7,000 deductible.

Works out to $1180 a month if We stay healthy, $1750.00 a month if we don't.
JWACK
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USA
12/3/2019 7:23am
hard2kill wrote:
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath...
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath care cost (not saying it hasn't happened). In most cases You could literally have no insurance and experience a catastrophic expense then make payments on that expense easier than you could purchase your own plan.
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my credit. And that was after many many calls letters etc asking for help and forgiveness.
Was it my fault for being an idiot and not having the proper coverage. Yes.
It can absolutely ruin you.
Kinda got lucky last year. I would have been ruined again if I hadn’t been covered. Had a major injury and racked up over 100k in Med bills in 2 weeks. But, I was covered and only spent a few thousand out of pocket all said and done.

It’s more than a scary thought.

1
borg
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6886
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Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
12/3/2019 7:52am
hard2kill wrote:
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath...
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath care cost (not saying it hasn't happened). In most cases You could literally have no insurance and experience a catastrophic expense then make payments on that expense easier than you could purchase your own plan.
JWACK wrote:
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my...
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my credit. And that was after many many calls letters etc asking for help and forgiveness.
Was it my fault for being an idiot and not having the proper coverage. Yes.
It can absolutely ruin you.
Kinda got lucky last year. I would have been ruined again if I hadn’t been covered. Had a major injury and racked up over 100k in Med bills in 2 weeks. But, I was covered and only spent a few thousand out of pocket all said and done.

It’s more than a scary thought.

I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If I would have had insurance it would have cost me more than twice as much. Not going to get into it again.
This subject has been hashed over many many times on here. What I have found is that most people don't like being told that they are being seriously fucked by their insurance companies. They just want to feel safe and protected.







4
591MX
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82
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Location
Fort Worth, TX, USA
12/3/2019 8:59am
We actually switched to CHM (Christian healthcare ministries) about two years ago for the same reason. Young, healthy (thank God) family of 4 and no prescription meds. It’s basically a health care co-op. Long story short instead of 1300 a month and a 6000 deductible with Blue Cross, we now pay 480 per month and are just responsible for the first $500 of whatever incident occurs. ER visit, $500. Knee surgery, $500. Thankfully we’ve yet to actually use it but it’s nice knowing if something major happens it’s there and we’re saving $800 per month in premiums. I know there’s several similar groups out there besides CHM and Medishare but it may be worth looking into.
5
JWACK
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2582
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Location
USA
12/3/2019 9:35am
hard2kill wrote:
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath...
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath care cost (not saying it hasn't happened). In most cases You could literally have no insurance and experience a catastrophic expense then make payments on that expense easier than you could purchase your own plan.
JWACK wrote:
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my...
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my credit. And that was after many many calls letters etc asking for help and forgiveness.
Was it my fault for being an idiot and not having the proper coverage. Yes.
It can absolutely ruin you.
Kinda got lucky last year. I would have been ruined again if I hadn’t been covered. Had a major injury and racked up over 100k in Med bills in 2 weeks. But, I was covered and only spent a few thousand out of pocket all said and done.

It’s more than a scary thought.

borg wrote:
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If...
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If I would have had insurance it would have cost me more than twice as much. Not going to get into it again.
This subject has been hashed over many many times on here. What I have found is that most people don't like being told that they are being seriously fucked by their insurance companies. They just want to feel safe and protected.







Touché.
Each case is different and your results may vary.
hard2kill
Posts
374
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Location
Flag Pond, TN, USA
12/3/2019 10:09am
JWACK wrote:
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my...
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my credit. And that was after many many calls letters etc asking for help and forgiveness.
Was it my fault for being an idiot and not having the proper coverage. Yes.
It can absolutely ruin you.
Kinda got lucky last year. I would have been ruined again if I hadn’t been covered. Had a major injury and racked up over 100k in Med bills in 2 weeks. But, I was covered and only spent a few thousand out of pocket all said and done.

It’s more than a scary thought.

borg wrote:
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If...
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If I would have had insurance it would have cost me more than twice as much. Not going to get into it again.
This subject has been hashed over many many times on here. What I have found is that most people don't like being told that they are being seriously fucked by their insurance companies. They just want to feel safe and protected.







JWACK wrote:
Touché.
Each case is different and your results may vary.
Yep, for my money i say don't carry any insurance and put that $500 or $1000 a month back into a secure source. If a major expense occurs make payments, they will still be cheaper than your insurance policy. Its a counter culture way of thinking, but if everyone would drop their insurance it would force the medical field to adjust their prices, as they are no doubt abusing the insurance policies currently.

Some might say that the services they provide us with would also suffer and that might be true, but at the end of the day we are all gonna die anyway. I will take the same policy that my great great grandpa had. What exactly are we insuring ourselves from anyway?
4
12/3/2019 11:59am
Deja New wrote:
reading all these make me appreciate our system in Australia. W don't need health cover injuries i just go to hospital and get fixed being self...
reading all these make me appreciate our system in Australia. W don't need health cover injuries i just go to hospital and get fixed being self employed you do need income protection but its not that expensive. Must be a scary thought getting hurt over in the states it could ruin you if your not covered.
hard2kill wrote:
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath...
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath care cost (not saying it hasn't happened). In most cases You could literally have no insurance and experience a catastrophic expense then make payments on that expense easier than you could purchase your own plan.
Just wait till your massive injury isn't covered because you didnt read the fine print in the policy.

The difference between social medicine and insurance is the insurance company doesn't have to pay the claim and will look for any reason not to.
Deja New
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2784
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Location
AU
12/3/2019 12:33pm
I’ve had several breaks over the years and just turned up at the er and was fixed up for free Smile arm and leg both required me to be knocked out and reset. I do have private health and it didn’t help me one bit as I went through the public system. We are pretty lucky like that over here and Moto seems to be growing I’m the part of aus where I like there are now about 7 close riding places some basic some world class. It makes moto so much more fun with the family not having to worry it’s going to cost big dollars if you get hurt our sport costs enough as it is.
skid mark
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128
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Location
Fraser, CO, USA
12/3/2019 10:34pm
591MX wrote:
We actually switched to CHM (Christian healthcare ministries) about two years ago for the same reason. Young, healthy (thank God) family of 4 and no prescription...
We actually switched to CHM (Christian healthcare ministries) about two years ago for the same reason. Young, healthy (thank God) family of 4 and no prescription meds. It’s basically a health care co-op. Long story short instead of 1300 a month and a 6000 deductible with Blue Cross, we now pay 480 per month and are just responsible for the first $500 of whatever incident occurs. ER visit, $500. Knee surgery, $500. Thankfully we’ve yet to actually use it but it’s nice knowing if something major happens it’s there and we’re saving $800 per month in premiums. I know there’s several similar groups out there besides CHM and Medishare but it may be worth looking into.
This is what my healthy family of 4 does also. My wife and I are in our late 40's and the kids are 7&9.
Less than $500/month and we have help. We have used it successfully for a daughters broken arm. No inquiry as to how it happened (not moto related), just needed to do some negotiating for paying in cash. It was 8-12 months before we were reimbursed, but it did happen.

Our traditional insurance was quoted at $1,700/month with a $9,000 deductible. $29,400 out of pocket before receiving an 80/20 assistance doesn't work with our budget.
FLmxer
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SouthWest, FL, USA
Fantasy
12/4/2019 6:47am Edited Date/Time 12/4/2019 10:04am
I have had my gear cut off at the hospital numerous times and said I fell off ladder. There is no way I am letting a little detail ruin my coverage that cost half your lifes income to pay even if you never use it. Allegedly at the track. I always wear all this gear when I clean the gutters.
2
Markee
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3665
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4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA, USA
12/5/2019 11:46am
borg wrote:
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If...
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If I would have had insurance it would have cost me more than twice as much. Not going to get into it again.
This subject has been hashed over many many times on here. What I have found is that most people don't like being told that they are being seriously fucked by their insurance companies. They just want to feel safe and protected.







How did you know of find out about the throat cancer?
borg
Posts
6886
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Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
12/5/2019 1:54pm
borg wrote:
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If...
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If I would have had insurance it would have cost me more than twice as much. Not going to get into it again.
This subject has been hashed over many many times on here. What I have found is that most people don't like being told that they are being seriously fucked by their insurance companies. They just want to feel safe and protected.







Markee wrote:
How did you know of find out about the throat cancer?
My voice was sounding funny so I went to an ENT. The tumor was on my vocal chord. That's actually pretty lucky given the circumstances.
mxdude105
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628
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Location
USA
12/7/2019 4:11am
Here in the U.S. we have the worst heath insurance system in the developed world. It is an absolute abomination that primarily serves to make money for insurance companies, physician groups and the pharmaceutical industry. This is coming from someone who works in healthcare and has good and (relatively) cheap insurance.
3
10/30/2022 4:28pm
hard2kill wrote:
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath...
I would say that's about all it is: a scary thought. I don't know a single person who has actually had their life ruined by heath care cost (not saying it hasn't happened). In most cases You could literally have no insurance and experience a catastrophic expense then make payments on that expense easier than you could purchase your own plan.
JWACK wrote:
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my...
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my credit. And that was after many many calls letters etc asking for help and forgiveness.
Was it my fault for being an idiot and not having the proper coverage. Yes.
It can absolutely ruin you.
Kinda got lucky last year. I would have been ruined again if I hadn’t been covered. Had a major injury and racked up over 100k in Med bills in 2 weeks. But, I was covered and only spent a few thousand out of pocket all said and done.

It’s more than a scary thought.

borg wrote:
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If...
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If I would have had insurance it would have cost me more than twice as much. Not going to get into it again.
This subject has been hashed over many many times on here. What I have found is that most people don't like being told that they are being seriously fucked by their insurance companies. They just want to feel safe and protected.







I will give a flip side experience to that. When the kids were little, we bought the most expensive insurance policy we thought we could afford. Whenever the kids had a problem, bam! We got it taken care of with no questions, never a problem. When my son was having migraines, the doctor wanted an MRI, he was in the machine that afternoon and being seen by a neurologist at Children's 2 days later. Fast forward many years, pre Obama care we were paying $800 per month. Once Obama Care passed it went up about $300-$500 per year. However just prior to Obama Care I was DXed with a "challenging" cancer. The insurance co assigned me a case worker that literally told the doctor what words to use to get same day approval of everything the doc ever wanted. They told me I could pick any hospital I wanted for my BMT as long as it's a center of excellence. They were going to pay for all transportation, housing while I was there,
and other expenses. Ultimately, I had my BMT at UCSD. But prior to that, because it's a rare cancer they never said no to things. The first treatment I asked for was not an approved frontline treatment for my cancer and they authorized it anyway, pretty sure it was about $80K just for them to let me try it.
So not all insurance policies are bad.
TM
1
sandhills
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320
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Location
Scotts Valley, CA, USA
10/31/2022 7:05am
Healthcare is a market failure, just like electricity - If you have cheap electricity, chances are you're in a non market (no rto/iso) area (fully regulated).

I was considering going no insurance for the first time in my life, but looks like once we have our second kid more subsidy is going to kick in and it's going to stay around the same price.
borg
Posts
6886
Joined
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Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
10/31/2022 11:33am
JWACK wrote:
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my...
While between jobs and insurance I got hurt when I was about 20. Took me 10+ years to pay off my med bills and fix my credit. And that was after many many calls letters etc asking for help and forgiveness.
Was it my fault for being an idiot and not having the proper coverage. Yes.
It can absolutely ruin you.
Kinda got lucky last year. I would have been ruined again if I hadn’t been covered. Had a major injury and racked up over 100k in Med bills in 2 weeks. But, I was covered and only spent a few thousand out of pocket all said and done.

It’s more than a scary thought.

borg wrote:
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If...
I had the opposite experience. In a 10 year period, I had two hernia surgeries and throat cancer. I paid for it out of pocket. If I would have had insurance it would have cost me more than twice as much. Not going to get into it again.
This subject has been hashed over many many times on here. What I have found is that most people don't like being told that they are being seriously fucked by their insurance companies. They just want to feel safe and protected.







ToolMaker wrote:
I will give a flip side experience to that. When the kids were little, we bought the most expensive insurance policy we thought we could afford...
I will give a flip side experience to that. When the kids were little, we bought the most expensive insurance policy we thought we could afford. Whenever the kids had a problem, bam! We got it taken care of with no questions, never a problem. When my son was having migraines, the doctor wanted an MRI, he was in the machine that afternoon and being seen by a neurologist at Children's 2 days later. Fast forward many years, pre Obama care we were paying $800 per month. Once Obama Care passed it went up about $300-$500 per year. However just prior to Obama Care I was DXed with a "challenging" cancer. The insurance co assigned me a case worker that literally told the doctor what words to use to get same day approval of everything the doc ever wanted. They told me I could pick any hospital I wanted for my BMT as long as it's a center of excellence. They were going to pay for all transportation, housing while I was there,
and other expenses. Ultimately, I had my BMT at UCSD. But prior to that, because it's a rare cancer they never said no to things. The first treatment I asked for was not an approved frontline treatment for my cancer and they authorized it anyway, pretty sure it was about $80K just for them to let me try it.
So not all insurance policies are bad.
TM
That is exactly the situation that insurance is good for. It's not good for routine doctor visits or many outpatient treatments.
At that time I was turned down for insurance because of my BP meds. Couldn't get it.
10/31/2022 12:26pm
borg wrote:
That is exactly the situation that insurance is good for. It's not good for routine doctor visits or many outpatient treatments. At that time I was...
That is exactly the situation that insurance is good for. It's not good for routine doctor visits or many outpatient treatments.
At that time I was turned down for insurance because of my BP meds. Couldn't get it.
To be fair, when I first got DXed, they did have a look over all our application papers to see if everything was in order so they could cancel me if they could find something out of order, I think. But after they realized they are stuck with me they were pretty exceptional. Our new insurance co, It's costs them $100+K annually to keep me going.
TM
borg
Posts
6886
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Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
10/31/2022 6:00pm
ToolMaker wrote:
To be fair, when I first got DXed, they did have a look over all our application papers to see if everything was in order so...
To be fair, when I first got DXed, they did have a look over all our application papers to see if everything was in order so they could cancel me if they could find something out of order, I think. But after they realized they are stuck with me they were pretty exceptional. Our new insurance co, It's costs them $100+K annually to keep me going.
TM
You're a goddam fighter. I really hope you beat this.
10/31/2022 9:16pm
ToolMaker wrote:
To be fair, when I first got DXed, they did have a look over all our application papers to see if everything was in order so...
To be fair, when I first got DXed, they did have a look over all our application papers to see if everything was in order so they could cancel me if they could find something out of order, I think. But after they realized they are stuck with me they were pretty exceptional. Our new insurance co, It's costs them $100+K annually to keep me going.
TM
borg wrote:
You're a goddam fighter. I really hope you beat this.
Thanks
TM

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