You’re suddenly the CEO of your favourite bike manufacturer; How are you changing the industry?

11/19/2019 7:04am
Cheap, low cost electric trials bikes. Reasons: They don't make any sound, you can ride them anywhere, Mom and dad are less likely to say no because of danger, there's hardly any maintenance involved to turn people away. Make them bluetooth to your cellphone so you can record riding stats and share/compete with friends etc. and hit social media hard.

THEN, when you get the younger generation hooked on riding these things you can start to market MX, enduro, full sized electric bikes, street bikes, etc.


3
FWYT
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11/19/2019 7:37am
Cheap, low cost electric trials bikes. Reasons: They don't make any sound, you can ride them anywhere, Mom and dad are less likely to say no...
Cheap, low cost electric trials bikes. Reasons: They don't make any sound, you can ride them anywhere, Mom and dad are less likely to say no because of danger, there's hardly any maintenance involved to turn people away. Make them bluetooth to your cellphone so you can record riding stats and share/compete with friends etc. and hit social media hard.

THEN, when you get the younger generation hooked on riding these things you can start to market MX, enduro, full sized electric bikes, street bikes, etc.


Yes!
I was out running in a nearby field recently. It is actually listed as a local "parkland" but it is more like a wasteland. A dad was out there with his four year old kid on cheap electric mini he had picked up at some local auto shop. Dad doesn't know anything about the sport, how to work on bikes and is definitely not interested in dropping $$$$. He can throw this thing in the back of his Rav4, drive 10 minutes and take junior riding. The kid is in jeans with skateboard pads and a skateboard helmet. Yes, he is technically on "park" land but he wasn't worried. No sound and the kid basically blends in with others on mountain bikes.

That's what we need. The modern version of the XR-75 that you can ride anywhere.
7
Titan1
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11/19/2019 9:21am
Titan1 wrote:
Build a true full size entry level dirt bike that looks just like the top of the line motocrosser. But is heavier, very basic suspension, no...
Build a true full size entry level dirt bike that looks just like the top of the line motocrosser. But is heavier, very basic suspension, no bells and whistles, far less performance...but that sells for about half the cost. (Similar to how mountain bike companies sell different quality of bikes for different prices, but it takes someone that knows the sport to know the difference between them...to the casual guy they all look the same).

Get new people a brand new, great looking dirt bike, that looks just like the best of the best, for half the cost (or close to it...like $5k). That would get average joes into the sport.

Build what the public wants...not try to sell them what I want to build.
[img]https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2019-Suzuki-RM-Z250-First-Look-motocross-motorcycle-1.jpg[/img] $6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody...

$6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody (has won stock class at Loretta's). Looks Great.

They can't give them away.
I think $4999 is a major mental milestone for a first time buyer. That bike, for under $5K sells.
Harry_Gray
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11/19/2019 9:24am
SLAPAHO wrote:
yes, this would be perfect... if it was 1975.. the future is indoor tracks with e-bikes, ride anywhere, anytime... big warehouse with lights..and outdoor tracks where...
yes, this would be perfect... if it was 1975..

the future is indoor tracks with e-bikes, ride anywhere, anytime... big warehouse with lights..and outdoor tracks where you couldn't have them before, no noise, open any hours you want...

don't get me wrong, i hated the 2001 yz250f more than anyone when it started becoming mainstream... i love 2smokes, the sound they make, the power they make, all of it.. but the question is about the future.. whether you like it or not, its electric.. if you think of the possibilities, it's actually a life saver... thumbs down if you feel the need, but you can't stop progression.... Smile
If they could keep the electric bikes down in price, and develop portable charging stations so you could go out on the trails, I'd be cool with that too. The reason I went the direction I did, was low overhead to build and low maintenance costs to the consumer. Kind of where my head was at. But there's possibility in your suggestion too. Ebike development has improved to make your idea tenable as well. It'd be nice if there was room for both our ideas on the market...
1

The Shop

11/19/2019 9:34am
Titan1 wrote:
Build a true full size entry level dirt bike that looks just like the top of the line motocrosser. But is heavier, very basic suspension, no...
Build a true full size entry level dirt bike that looks just like the top of the line motocrosser. But is heavier, very basic suspension, no bells and whistles, far less performance...but that sells for about half the cost. (Similar to how mountain bike companies sell different quality of bikes for different prices, but it takes someone that knows the sport to know the difference between them...to the casual guy they all look the same).

Get new people a brand new, great looking dirt bike, that looks just like the best of the best, for half the cost (or close to it...like $5k). That would get average joes into the sport.

Build what the public wants...not try to sell them what I want to build.
[img]https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2019-Suzuki-RM-Z250-First-Look-motocross-motorcycle-1.jpg[/img] $6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody...

$6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody (has won stock class at Loretta's). Looks Great.

They can't give them away.
Titan1 wrote:
I think $4999 is a major mental milestone for a first time buyer. That bike, for under $5K sells.
2
Titan1
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11/19/2019 9:40am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2019 9:41am
[img]https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2019-Suzuki-RM-Z250-First-Look-motocross-motorcycle-1.jpg[/img] $6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody...

$6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody (has won stock class at Loretta's). Looks Great.

They can't give them away.
Titan1 wrote:
I think $4999 is a major mental milestone for a first time buyer. That bike, for under $5K sells.
Until they add all the junk fees and its $6K again before tax and license.

But even so....are they selling finally selling them? I'd imagine they are.
1
11/19/2019 9:47am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2019 10:29am
Titan1 wrote:
I think $4999 is a major mental milestone for a first time buyer. That bike, for under $5K sells.
Titan1 wrote:
Until they add all the junk fees and its $6K again before tax and license. But even so....are they selling finally selling them? I'd imagine they...
Until they add all the junk fees and its $6K again before tax and license.

But even so....are they selling finally selling them? I'd imagine they are.
Some do, some don't. Either way, the bike is stinking cheap, looks good, is competitive on the track if not the spec sheet, and nobody wants it.

So maybe cheap isn't the answer.
motoXracer971
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11/19/2019 10:33am
A-Kit on everything, so nobody ever bottoms out...
4
yz133rider
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11/19/2019 10:49am
Yamaha could have it with their yz125 and yz250...bikes havent been updated since 2005, nearly 0 in r&d and yet they still retail for 95% as much as ktms 2 strokes.

Yamaha could have marketed them as a entry level track bike, could have even marketed "spec" classes for them much the same as miata spec racing. Your allowed to change gearing, suspension springs, and bars. Outside of that must be bone stock. Oh and the 125 should be 4999 by now with zero money spent updating it in 15 years. And the yz250 could retail for say 5499.
1
11/19/2019 10:55am
A-Kit on everything, so nobody ever bottoms out...
Maybe have beginner bikes come with helmet, boots, and some safety stuff? Partner with another co and offer a deal if you buy it all at once, I'm sure they could even roll it into the financing
1
Titan1
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11/19/2019 11:01am
Titan1 wrote:
Until they add all the junk fees and its $6K again before tax and license. But even so....are they selling finally selling them? I'd imagine they...
Until they add all the junk fees and its $6K again before tax and license.

But even so....are they selling finally selling them? I'd imagine they are.
Some do, some don't. Either way, the bike is stinking cheap, looks good, is competitive on the track if not the spec sheet, and nobody wants...
Some do, some don't. Either way, the bike is stinking cheap, looks good, is competitive on the track if not the spec sheet, and nobody wants it.

So maybe cheap isn't the answer.
Maybe you're right...there's a reason I'm not a CEO, so the chances are slim I'm going to have the answer.

1
Motodave15
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11/19/2019 11:18am
1. Opening the pocket book and buy gobs of land.. like try to get 50-100 acres across every state. Keep all land purchases within a hour drive of a major city, but purchase land that cannot have house built near it.

2. Build private tracks, were people can come and rent the bikes for family fun days etc.. (they will have to go through a riding training course approximately 1 hour, beginners to pros) before being allowed on any track.

3. Lobby for ohv land use closer to homes between the hours of 9am to sunset.

4. Build significantly cheaper dirtbikes. Id actually try to kill the mtb market because its a similar demographic.. so a brand new, non competitive bike costs 2grand.. 50s and kids bikes no more than 1k. 3-5k for weekend racer bikes/ desert ridrrs...pro racing level stuff 6k to 10k (I would win by sheer volume).

5. Beat ktm at the grassroots level

6. Offer a strong contingency thats loyalty based

7. Invest in t.v. commercials on non traditional Motorsports channels.

Soo much more, but this would be like the first 7 steps id take.
4
Johnny Depp
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11/19/2019 12:40pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2019 12:44pm
Any manufacturer changing the industry is a bit of a stretch, they are manufacturers and distributors of retail products with limited resources.

Having influence over racing organizations, rule books, and where they choose to enter the factory teams is probably their biggest influence. Without them there are no elephants at the Circus, oh wait...Feld's circus has none.

Providing riding areas worldwide is totally unrealistic for manufacturers, building entry level or premium level and finding a spot in the market where they can sell something in enough volume to make a buck is their job. Right now it looks like SXS would be the smart move. Watercraft, Snow Machines, ATV and Street bikes are all a part of the Powersports industry. Dirt Bikes is a small small piece of the pie, and has long been used as a "Halo" with regards to racing without it making true financial sense. It falls under the Advertising / R&D budget.

My favorite is Beta so:

Drop the Racing Enduro lineup and de-content them and set up the suspension for an XC/MX type model.
Make a Premium MX model with upgraded B kit suspension and Ti exhaust, gold rims to match suspension.
Build an true Open Class 2t, IE 360-500
Put a 3 gal.+ tank on the RR-S models
A full sized line of E-bikes (Beta tried to make a deal to buy Alta)
Expand the XTrainer lineup of low seat height cheaper full size with 4t's for ease of riding

Bring Steve Holcombe and Brad Freeman over for the GNCC and Sprint Enduro's
Put a 125 2t team on the MX Nationals new age class with local guest riders at each round
Put a strong team on the upstart U.S. Hard Enduro Circuit.
Continue Endurocross, drop National Enduro and multiple regional series


DoctorJD
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11/19/2019 12:46pm
Tarz483 wrote:
Just curious, is there any open space at any of those Trails you speak of to make a Moto track ? even just a natural terrain...
Just curious, is there any open space at any of those Trails you speak of to make a Moto track ? even just a natural terrain, turn track if few guys keep going in the same pattern usually forms a track pretty quickly, then you would have a free track to ride at.
None. Almost all of them are in state parks, one is on county property, and one is privately owned but inside the city limits of a small town.
1
Tarz483
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11/19/2019 2:07pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2019 2:16pm
It's Cheap in comparison to to other New bikes But $5000
Is still a lot of Money at out of Reach to a lot of people , like teenagers from lower income families. Or paying themselves without help from family etc.
Tarz483
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11/19/2019 2:11pm
Tarz483 wrote:
Just curious, is there any open space at any of those Trails you speak of to make a Moto track ? even just a natural terrain...
Just curious, is there any open space at any of those Trails you speak of to make a Moto track ? even just a natural terrain, turn track if few guys keep going in the same pattern usually forms a track pretty quickly, then you would have a free track to ride at.
DoctorJD wrote:
None. Almost all of them are in state parks, one is on county property, and one is privately owned but inside the city limits of a...
None. Almost all of them are in state parks, one is on county property, and one is privately owned but inside the city limits of a small town.
There are Tracks on public land in Some states , I've seen quite a few mentioned in Different threads on here , I know here in Minnesota there is a permanent track that is on a County fairgrounds property.
Titan1
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11/19/2019 3:17pm
Tarz483 wrote:
It's Cheap in comparison to to other New bikes But $5000 Is still a lot of Money at out of Reach to a lot of people...
It's Cheap in comparison to to other New bikes But $5000
Is still a lot of Money at out of Reach to a lot of people , like teenagers from lower income families. Or paying themselves without help from family etc.
Lets face it...the target demographic of this sport isn't lower income families or teenagers paying their own way.

The target demographic is middle class and up.

2
twizzler
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11/19/2019 3:39pm
Titan1 wrote:
Build a true full size entry level dirt bike that looks just like the top of the line motocrosser. But is heavier, very basic suspension, no...
Build a true full size entry level dirt bike that looks just like the top of the line motocrosser. But is heavier, very basic suspension, no bells and whistles, far less performance...but that sells for about half the cost. (Similar to how mountain bike companies sell different quality of bikes for different prices, but it takes someone that knows the sport to know the difference between them...to the casual guy they all look the same).

Get new people a brand new, great looking dirt bike, that looks just like the best of the best, for half the cost (or close to it...like $5k). That would get average joes into the sport.

Build what the public wants...not try to sell them what I want to build.
[img]https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2019-Suzuki-RM-Z250-First-Look-motocross-motorcycle-1.jpg[/img] $6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody...

$6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody (has won stock class at Loretta's). Looks Great.

They can't give them away.
Titan1 wrote:
I think $4999 is a major mental milestone for a first time buyer. That bike, for under $5K sells.
Nobody buys these because they advertise for $5499 + fees - $380 destination fee, $780 Added Mark Up fee, $ Local Tax fee, $Title Fee, $Documentation fee = approx $7500 for local SoCal dealers offering said misnomer discounts! If it was $5499 plus tax I would be inclined to buy one! But not for $7500....
Tarz483
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11/19/2019 3:43pm
Tarz483 wrote:
It's Cheap in comparison to to other New bikes But $5000 Is still a lot of Money at out of Reach to a lot of people...
It's Cheap in comparison to to other New bikes But $5000
Is still a lot of Money at out of Reach to a lot of people , like teenagers from lower income families. Or paying themselves without help from family etc.
Titan1 wrote:
Lets face it...the target demographic of this sport isn't lower income families or teenagers paying their own way.

The target demographic is middle class and up.

I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ?
Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a brand new KD80 , my dad bought new for less Than a grand.
And later a used CR80.
I was that kid that was Just die hard Dirt bike lover ,
And just liked Things with a motor period. But that's why I say all the time I don't think it's just that the kids are different, I think a large percentage just isn't being given the opportunity.
11/19/2019 4:45pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2019 5:58pm
Tarz483 wrote:
It's Cheap in comparison to to other New bikes But $5000 Is still a lot of Money at out of Reach to a lot of people...
It's Cheap in comparison to to other New bikes But $5000
Is still a lot of Money at out of Reach to a lot of people , like teenagers from lower income families. Or paying themselves without help from family etc.
Titan1 wrote:
Lets face it...the target demographic of this sport isn't lower income families or teenagers paying their own way.

The target demographic is middle class and up.

Tarz483 wrote:
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ? Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a...
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ?
Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a brand new KD80 , my dad bought new for less Than a grand.
And later a used CR80.
I was that kid that was Just die hard Dirt bike lover ,
And just liked Things with a motor period. But that's why I say all the time I don't think it's just that the kids are different, I think a large percentage just isn't being given the opportunity.
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in the 80s. The RMZ250 discussed is cheaper, cpi adjusted, than the last RM 125. If the "less than a grand" KD80 cost, let's say $900 in '82, that is the same exact price, adjusted for inflation as a current KLX110L.
1
11/19/2019 4:54pm
E bikes, gasoline bikes, pffft, gimma tommorows technology today, a Hybrid bike, $20,000 and 2,000 lbs.
Now we're talking.
Zacka 161
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11/19/2019 5:17pm
F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and im not sure how easy it is to get into car racing....


But the start is Go Karts, a scaled down version that can fit anywhere. Is their value in considering this model, where the majority of users hire at first before buying into it to go racing. So maybe as CEO it would be about setting up small industrial area ride parks with the afformentioned affordable hire specific and bulletproof, probably electric, bikes. Get people in through removing the hassle of owning and also generally increase the interest and likely the viewership at the professional level. I think that would be a win win.

Im not sure just brainstorming. With the population of the world doubling in the last 50 years and the US slightly below that increase, its only going to get worse over the next 50 years. Where do all those people fit? Is the real future of the sport a 1 child policy in the US? This means a reduction or steady population while each family should be able to spend more on that one child. So maybe what anyone should do as first day as CEO, lobby government for a one child policy... We need that land to ride, not for another bloody housing development
tcallahan707
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Morrison, CO US
11/19/2019 6:03pm
Titan1 wrote:
Lets face it...the target demographic of this sport isn't lower income families or teenagers paying their own way.

The target demographic is middle class and up.

Tarz483 wrote:
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ? Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a...
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ?
Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a brand new KD80 , my dad bought new for less Than a grand.
And later a used CR80.
I was that kid that was Just die hard Dirt bike lover ,
And just liked Things with a motor period. But that's why I say all the time I don't think it's just that the kids are different, I think a large percentage just isn't being given the opportunity.
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in...
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in the 80s. The RMZ250 discussed is cheaper, cpi adjusted, than the last RM 125. If the "less than a grand" KD80 cost, let's say $900 in '82, that is the same exact price, adjusted for inflation as a current KLX110L.
Now consider stagnant wages and that my friends is the root problem. Less disposable income + less areas to ride = wayyyyy too big of a barrier of entry. CEO isn't doing much to combat that.
11/19/2019 6:06pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2019 6:13pm
Tarz483 wrote:
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ? Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a...
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ?
Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a brand new KD80 , my dad bought new for less Than a grand.
And later a used CR80.
I was that kid that was Just die hard Dirt bike lover ,
And just liked Things with a motor period. But that's why I say all the time I don't think it's just that the kids are different, I think a large percentage just isn't being given the opportunity.
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in...
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in the 80s. The RMZ250 discussed is cheaper, cpi adjusted, than the last RM 125. If the "less than a grand" KD80 cost, let's say $900 in '82, that is the same exact price, adjusted for inflation as a current KLX110L.
Now consider stagnant wages and that my friends is the root problem. Less disposable income + less areas to ride = wayyyyy too big of a...
Now consider stagnant wages and that my friends is the root problem. Less disposable income + less areas to ride = wayyyyy too big of a barrier of entry. CEO isn't doing much to combat that.
Wages indexed versus CPI are nearly flat over the previous 40 years
1
tcallahan707
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11/19/2019 6:08pm
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in...
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in the 80s. The RMZ250 discussed is cheaper, cpi adjusted, than the last RM 125. If the "less than a grand" KD80 cost, let's say $900 in '82, that is the same exact price, adjusted for inflation as a current KLX110L.
Now consider stagnant wages and that my friends is the root problem. Less disposable income + less areas to ride = wayyyyy too big of a...
Now consider stagnant wages and that my friends is the root problem. Less disposable income + less areas to ride = wayyyyy too big of a barrier of entry. CEO isn't doing much to combat that.
Wages indexed versus CPI are nearly flat over the previous 40 years [img]https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/FT_18.07.26_hourlyWage_adjusted.png[/img]
Wages indexed versus CPI are nearly flat over the previous 40 years
You're right. My bad. Brain just jumped to inflation adjusted.
BobPA
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11/19/2019 6:12pm
Liquidate then head to Vegas.

Fuck doing actual work.
Tarz483
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11/19/2019 6:18pm
Titan1 wrote:
Lets face it...the target demographic of this sport isn't lower income families or teenagers paying their own way.

The target demographic is middle class and up.

Tarz483 wrote:
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ? Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a...
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ?
Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a brand new KD80 , my dad bought new for less Than a grand.
And later a used CR80.
I was that kid that was Just die hard Dirt bike lover ,
And just liked Things with a motor period. But that's why I say all the time I don't think it's just that the kids are different, I think a large percentage just isn't being given the opportunity.
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in...
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in the 80s. The RMZ250 discussed is cheaper, cpi adjusted, than the last RM 125. If the "less than a grand" KD80 cost, let's say $900 in '82, that is the same exact price, adjusted for inflation as a current KLX110L.
It was 1988 and it was a brand new left over 1986 KD80 my dad bought for $700
11/19/2019 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2019 6:33pm
Tarz483 wrote:
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ? Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a...
I agree but was that the case in the 70's and 80's ?
Honestly I was from a low income family and I First got a brand new KD80 , my dad bought new for less Than a grand.
And later a used CR80.
I was that kid that was Just die hard Dirt bike lover ,
And just liked Things with a motor period. But that's why I say all the time I don't think it's just that the kids are different, I think a large percentage just isn't being given the opportunity.
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in...
A Yz85 (updated this year with a power valve and new suspension) is within 10-15% of the cost cpi adjusted of what a CR80 was in the 80s. The RMZ250 discussed is cheaper, cpi adjusted, than the last RM 125. If the "less than a grand" KD80 cost, let's say $900 in '82, that is the same exact price, adjusted for inflation as a current KLX110L.
Tarz483 wrote:
It was 1988 and it was a brand new left over 1986 KD80 my dad bought for $700
That's VERY left over. You can't find a KLX like that (too much demand), but if you could it find new stock that old for 30-40% off sticker, that would be the same as 700 in '88 . Consequently, you can nowadays could get something like a Pitster or an SSR for one third of the price of the $700 KD80
Tarz483
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11/19/2019 6:24pm
2 years dealers still have 2 year old leftovers now
JB500
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Granger, IN US
11/19/2019 6:28pm
[img]https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2019-Suzuki-RM-Z250-First-Look-motocross-motorcycle-1.jpg[/img] $6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody...

$6300 sticker after mfg rebates. Steep dealer discounts available off of that. Competent, reliable, no-frills bike that needs only set up to race against anybody (has won stock class at Loretta's). Looks Great.

They can't give them away.
Titan1 wrote:
I think $4999 is a major mental milestone for a first time buyer. That bike, for under $5K sells.
twizzler wrote:
Nobody buys these because they advertise for $5499 + fees - $380 destination fee, $780 Added Mark Up fee, $ Local Tax fee, $Title Fee, $Documentation...
Nobody buys these because they advertise for $5499 + fees - $380 destination fee, $780 Added Mark Up fee, $ Local Tax fee, $Title Fee, $Documentation fee = approx $7500 for local SoCal dealers offering said misnomer discounts! If it was $5499 plus tax I would be inclined to buy one! But not for $7500....
I agree that’s usually the case, but deals can be had....on all brands, not just Suzuki.


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