Mike Alessi on YZ325 for MEC

Excaliburbmx
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10/17/2019 6:32pm
This would have been a great opportunity for Bowers to whip out the kx500 again.
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KX500
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10/18/2019 5:57am
A monopoly almost never helps the consumer. Four strokes absolutely have a monopoly on Motocross/Supercross in the US. And why is that? More money for the manufacturers.

I just want to see a 2 stroke option that is equivalent to the 4 strokes in use today.

Is the YZ325 that equivalent option? Maybe we'll see. One would think there is no way it could be since the chassis has had no development since, what 2006?

I hope Alessi on the YZ325 this weekend at least opens some eyes.

Let the consumers decide which style engine they prefer.
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mxb2
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10/18/2019 6:12am
KX500 wrote:
A monopoly almost never helps the consumer. Four strokes absolutely have a monopoly on Motocross/Supercross in the US. And why is that? More money for the...
A monopoly almost never helps the consumer. Four strokes absolutely have a monopoly on Motocross/Supercross in the US. And why is that? More money for the manufacturers.

I just want to see a 2 stroke option that is equivalent to the 4 strokes in use today.

Is the YZ325 that equivalent option? Maybe we'll see. One would think there is no way it could be since the chassis has had no development since, what 2006?

I hope Alessi on the YZ325 this weekend at least opens some eyes.

Let the consumers decide which style engine they prefer.
They did. 4 strokes outsell 2 strokes. Still plenty of new 2 stroke models to choose from.
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KX500
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10/18/2019 6:20am
There are no '450 4 stroke equivalent' 2 stokes available today. Who makes a 350 or 400 cc 2 stroke that has been developed to compete at the same levels as the 450? Nobody - and why would they as the AMA wouldn't allow them to race anyway?

Of course consumers picked the four strokes, when the big 4 manufacturers stopped development of the 2 stroke and the only way to get a 'new' bike was going to be a 4 stroke. Few want 2, 5 or 10 year old technology when they can have the most current.

The marketing worked exactly like it was supposed to.

Another case of planned obsolescence.
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The Shop

mxb2
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10/18/2019 6:26am
KX500 wrote:
There are no '450 4 stroke equivalent' 2 stokes available today. Who makes a 350 or 400 cc 2 stroke that has been developed to compete...
There are no '450 4 stroke equivalent' 2 stokes available today. Who makes a 350 or 400 cc 2 stroke that has been developed to compete at the same levels as the 450? Nobody - and why would they as the AMA wouldn't allow them to race anyway?

Of course consumers picked the four strokes, when the big 4 manufacturers stopped development of the 2 stroke and the only way to get a 'new' bike was going to be a 4 stroke. Few want 2, 5 or 10 year old technology when they can have the most current.

The marketing worked exactly like it was supposed to.

Another case of planned obsolescence.
Ktm, tm, husky have pretty current technology. Support them if people want to.ride 2 strokes.
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KX500
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10/18/2019 7:48am
I'm thrilled with the 2 stroke selections available today. It is awesome that Yamaha still sells them and that KTM continues to sell AND develop them. Maybe someday I'll have one of those KTM of Husky 300s, but it isn't as if my '16 YZ250X is holding me back.

My point is simply that if a top level racer wanted to compete against the 450s on a 2 stroke, his only choice is to do what Alessi is doing here. Take a bike that was never fully developed by the factory and do the best he can with it on his (or the programs) budget.

I have little doubt that the KTM 250 SX is the best available 2 stroke MX bike today. But still, KTM hasn't said 'let's put the time, effort & money in it so that it is as good as our 450s'.

I want to see KTM or somebody do that.
Johnny Depp
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10/18/2019 3:01pm Edited Date/Time 10/18/2019 3:05pm
KX500 wrote:
I'm thrilled with the 2 stroke selections available today. It is awesome that Yamaha still sells them and that KTM continues to sell AND develop them...
I'm thrilled with the 2 stroke selections available today. It is awesome that Yamaha still sells them and that KTM continues to sell AND develop them. Maybe someday I'll have one of those KTM of Husky 300s, but it isn't as if my '16 YZ250X is holding me back.

My point is simply that if a top level racer wanted to compete against the 450s on a 2 stroke, his only choice is to do what Alessi is doing here. Take a bike that was never fully developed by the factory and do the best he can with it on his (or the programs) budget.

I have little doubt that the KTM 250 SX is the best available 2 stroke MX bike today. But still, KTM hasn't said 'let's put the time, effort & money in it so that it is as good as our 450s'.

I want to see KTM or somebody do that.
I'm not so sure about 4t's outselling 2t's. Yamaha, KTM, Beta, Husky, TM and Sherco sell a lot of 2t's, that happen to have VERY modern technology, although perhaps a bit short on CC's for some tracks. Anyone who has MX'ed their 2 stroke knows hole shots are possible with a 300 or a 250. Consistency in lap times is probably the biggest challenge. It's not like this is Ryan Dungey on a 325 RBSR special though, so expectations with Mikey in the saddle must be realistic. This sport has always been more rider than bike.

Regardless I am THRILLED for anyone to be trying it, that is what the Open Rulebook is about and it's about time we got to see something different and hopefully exciting. I feel like we were close with Mookie last year on the Alta if the battery could have held up?
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Zacka 161
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10/19/2019 1:15am
KX500 wrote:
A monopoly almost never helps the consumer. Four strokes absolutely have a monopoly on Motocross/Supercross in the US. And why is that? More money for the...
A monopoly almost never helps the consumer. Four strokes absolutely have a monopoly on Motocross/Supercross in the US. And why is that? More money for the manufacturers.

I just want to see a 2 stroke option that is equivalent to the 4 strokes in use today.

Is the YZ325 that equivalent option? Maybe we'll see. One would think there is no way it could be since the chassis has had no development since, what 2006?

I hope Alessi on the YZ325 this weekend at least opens some eyes.

Let the consumers decide which style engine they prefer.
I’m not sure you know what monopoly really means.

A monopoly would be one company buying up a whole lot of smaller companies to eventually have an unfair control over the market, tipping the scales and making it difficult for companies to compete on a level field.

like Amazon has done. Not having one type of engine type manufactured by multiple different manufacturers
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Bearuno
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10/19/2019 2:04am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2019 2:11am
Zacka 161 wrote:
I’m not sure you know what monopoly really means. A monopoly would be one company buying up a whole lot of smaller companies to eventually have...
I’m not sure you know what monopoly really means.

A monopoly would be one company buying up a whole lot of smaller companies to eventually have an unfair control over the market, tipping the scales and making it difficult for companies to compete on a level field.

like Amazon has done. Not having one type of engine type manufactured by multiple different manufacturers
Well, let's call the AMA/Feld MX Sports and Luongo/ FIM 250 and 450 classes by a couple of more accurate names:



1 - Handicap Class Racing

Or:

2 - Sheltered Workshop Class Racing

Now you, being an Aussie, Know equivalency means the 4ts do not get slaughtered - they are more than competitive with same sized 2ts - hell, they've had a lot of years of development and isolation, through rules, from other ICE 'threats'. It, Equivalency, just gives great, more interesting racing.

With ESR and Mike Alessi, it's good to see someone taking a tilt at things, though (with respect - but there will be twonkers that get upset with this), it's a Pro probably past his prime, on, what is, effectively, a modified 2005 model bike with a big bore kit. Anyone think a 450 4t of that vintage design and rider combo would do particularly well?

I've written many, many times - the company that brings out a Modern 2t that would come under an 'Equivalent 450' class ruling, would have a good seller on their model listing. But, it's far easier to just square up an existing 250, and call it a 'big bike'. Which, it is not.

Heck , even without a MX Sports 450 or Luongo/FIM MX1 class tick, I've always said a 350 / 400/ 430 - whatever size up to 450cc 2t could be a good addition to a few manufacturers line ups. Simple (even a FI / TPI 2t is still infinitely simpler than a modern 4t), durable, easy to ride, easy to work on, light, and fun. And, very, very easy to have it relatively mellow, in power delivery, but very powerful, or wild, for the 'he men' that must have their hard to ride 'hit'. Those, will, generally, the ones at the back, tying themselves in knots.........Woohoo

Equivalency in all classes, at all level of racing, is what we should have, not this BS of double the capacity and 1.80 times capacity.
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Motofinne
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10/19/2019 3:49am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2019 3:50am
Zacka 161 wrote:
I’m not sure you know what monopoly really means. A monopoly would be one company buying up a whole lot of smaller companies to eventually have...
I’m not sure you know what monopoly really means.

A monopoly would be one company buying up a whole lot of smaller companies to eventually have an unfair control over the market, tipping the scales and making it difficult for companies to compete on a level field.

like Amazon has done. Not having one type of engine type manufactured by multiple different manufacturers
Bearuno wrote:
Well, let's call the AMA/Feld MX Sports and Luongo/ FIM 250 and 450 classes by a couple of more [i]accurate [/i] names: 1 - [b]Handicap Class...
Well, let's call the AMA/Feld MX Sports and Luongo/ FIM 250 and 450 classes by a couple of more accurate names:



1 - Handicap Class Racing

Or:

2 - Sheltered Workshop Class Racing

Now you, being an Aussie, Know equivalency means the 4ts do not get slaughtered - they are more than competitive with same sized 2ts - hell, they've had a lot of years of development and isolation, through rules, from other ICE 'threats'. It, Equivalency, just gives great, more interesting racing.

With ESR and Mike Alessi, it's good to see someone taking a tilt at things, though (with respect - but there will be twonkers that get upset with this), it's a Pro probably past his prime, on, what is, effectively, a modified 2005 model bike with a big bore kit. Anyone think a 450 4t of that vintage design and rider combo would do particularly well?

I've written many, many times - the company that brings out a Modern 2t that would come under an 'Equivalent 450' class ruling, would have a good seller on their model listing. But, it's far easier to just square up an existing 250, and call it a 'big bike'. Which, it is not.

Heck , even without a MX Sports 450 or Luongo/FIM MX1 class tick, I've always said a 350 / 400/ 430 - whatever size up to 450cc 2t could be a good addition to a few manufacturers line ups. Simple (even a FI / TPI 2t is still infinitely simpler than a modern 4t), durable, easy to ride, easy to work on, light, and fun. And, very, very easy to have it relatively mellow, in power delivery, but very powerful, or wild, for the 'he men' that must have their hard to ride 'hit'. Those, will, generally, the ones at the back, tying themselves in knots.........Woohoo

Equivalency in all classes, at all level of racing, is what we should have, not this BS of double the capacity and 1.80 times capacity.
You can race a 250 2-stroke in the EMX250 class against the 4-strokes and about 1% of the riders race on a 2-stroke. I know you're passionate about this topic and i admire that, but i seriously think we are wasting our time discussing this.

The 2-stroke on the highest level of MX or SX racing is dead, and that isn't because of the rules, some conspiracy etc. On the other hand it thrives in the world of offroad and hard enduro which is nice to see.

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Bearuno
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10/19/2019 4:52am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2019 5:10am
Motofinne wrote:
You can race a 250 2-stroke in the EMX250 class against the 4-strokes and about 1% of the riders race on a 2-stroke. I know you're...
You can race a 250 2-stroke in the EMX250 class against the 4-strokes and about 1% of the riders race on a 2-stroke. I know you're passionate about this topic and i admire that, but i seriously think we are wasting our time discussing this.

The 2-stroke on the highest level of MX or SX racing is dead, and that isn't because of the rules, some conspiracy etc. On the other hand it thrives in the world of offroad and hard enduro which is nice to see.

I know exactly what the rules are. And, I go to a few GPs, each year,

Yes, when the majority of major manufactures only make 4ts, that's what will be raced, and won with. And, the same with the manufacturers who do make 2ts, but still mainly back their 4ts in MX. Weight of numbers etc.

And, backing of bikes goes down through to dealer level - eg, manufacturers / distributors offering far less of a 'racers discount' on their 2ts, when compared to their equivalent 4t models . It all effects the bikes we see on the start lines in State, National and International series. Hell, here in OZ a KTM 250SX has the same price as a 250SXF...... now that's just wrong. At least in the US, the more expensive bike to make, costs more than the less expensive one to make........ We do get reamed by KTM / KTHusky here in OZ.

I've no illusions about racing. It's why you'll Never read a post of mine raving about 2t domination. That's for the drongos who just don't seem to understand just how good modern 4ts are, and the overwhelming backing 4ts have, through the rules that enabled sales takeover. .

You think that 4ts would have come to the fore in Motocross, if 125 4ts had to race against 125 2ts, 250 4ts against 250 2ts, etc, from the very start of the 4t 'revolution' ?

They needed such skewed rules to make them so much better, for most riders. They have not needed the Handicap advantage for damned near One and a Half decades now.

No, I don't think there would be a wholesale change over back to 2ts with Full Equivalency, but, we might just have a bit more retention of Riders and Teams (at all levels) and better, more interesting racing, with, gradually, a more even spread of ICE types on tracks.

Oh, Jamie Dunn won an EMX250 overall at the French GP, a couple of seasons ago. You, being a Euro / Finn, surely would know that. I think, one of 2 2ts, in the class that day - or, the only one.

PS : as well as the Sainte Jean, Maggiora and 'Cute Lil Teut' (what my GF calls it) GPs, I'm hoping to come back for Lommel, with a stay in Denmark(mine) and Poland (GFs) with relos, then Uddevala and Litti-KymiRing GPs, so, I might be in your home country, next year .
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Johnny Depp
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10/19/2019 6:37am
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/10/19/380159/s1200_s1200_71001369_2512025665789757_9216641089012552211_n_1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/10/19/380160/s1200_s1200_70877681_464644791066156_5234683964678195120_n.jpg[/img]


SD Tony you have had your balls busted with down votes for years. This is your moment in the sun! Enjoy the Day! MA800 looking good so far, he might not be a hero, but I don't think he'll be embarrassed either.
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devotid
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10/19/2019 7:34am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2019 7:37am
Who?

Why give these turds 10 seconds of coverage?

I was so excited for mookies return but I just cant bring myself to cheer for these dinks.
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10/19/2019 8:13am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2019 9:18am
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/10/19/380159/s1200_s1200_71001369_2512025665789757_9216641089012552211_n_1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/10/19/380160/s1200_s1200_70877681_464644791066156_5234683964678195120_n.jpg[/img]


SD Tony you have had your balls busted with down votes for years. This is your moment in the sun! Enjoy the Day! MA800 looking good...
SD Tony you have had your balls busted with down votes for years. This is your moment in the sun! Enjoy the Day! MA800 looking good so far, he might not be a hero, but I don't think he'll be embarrassed either.
Most guys have never, never, ridden a 300 or 325! So they don't "Feel" how much "FUN" it is to not work so hard at keeping the bike on the Power Band!

I was told years ago that there may be about 400 qty ESR 325 Kits out there, but only Eddie knows for sure. He did move from Pismo Beach, Ca, to Oregon "Coastal area" because of the Communists California Taxes and Regulations.

So I have said this before and will again, this is the Best Value MX/Off-Road Motorcycle for most people that don't want to spend massively on a "Fun Sport".

As far as people complaining about any post, I could care Less! If they want to Censor me they can get there own Platform like China and do it!
Keep in mind, "Nobody can hurt your feelings unless you let them"!

Bottom line I love my bike, and any complainers can F.. Off and Die!

Lol!
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byke
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10/19/2019 4:05pm
Everyone has done something douchey. It's no big deal. You just recognize it and own it and grow, but getting defensive is the opposite of those things.
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Texas Built
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10/19/2019 4:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2019 4:24pm
devotid wrote:
This guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jaw2GM7IqmM
How soon people forget that he tried to injure someone.

Dude that was like 7 years ago and he just ran into someones wheel. You act like he was one of the 9/11 hijackers.
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Johnny Depp
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10/19/2019 4:41pm
Alessi wins the LCQ! He's in the Show for history!
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Jeff alessi
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10/19/2019 4:43pm
That was incredible 💪💪
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CPR
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10/19/2019 5:10pm
Alessi wins the LCQ! He's in the Show for history!
Don't forget the holeshot
3
bultokid
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10/19/2019 6:13pm
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/10/19/380159/s1200_s1200_71001369_2512025665789757_9216641089012552211_n_1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/10/19/380160/s1200_s1200_70877681_464644791066156_5234683964678195120_n.jpg[/img]


SD Tony you have had your balls busted with down votes for years. This is your moment in the sun! Enjoy the Day! MA800 looking good...
SD Tony you have had your balls busted with down votes for years. This is your moment in the sun! Enjoy the Day! MA800 looking good so far, he might not be a hero, but I don't think he'll be embarrassed either.
Most guys have never, never, ridden a 300 or 325! So they don't "Feel" how much "FUN" it is to not work so hard at keeping...
Most guys have never, never, ridden a 300 or 325! So they don't "Feel" how much "FUN" it is to not work so hard at keeping the bike on the Power Band!

I was told years ago that there may be about 400 qty ESR 325 Kits out there, but only Eddie knows for sure. He did move from Pismo Beach, Ca, to Oregon "Coastal area" because of the Communists California Taxes and Regulations.

So I have said this before and will again, this is the Best Value MX/Off-Road Motorcycle for most people that don't want to spend massively on a "Fun Sport".

As far as people complaining about any post, I could care Less! If they want to Censor me they can get there own Platform like China and do it!
Keep in mind, "Nobody can hurt your feelings unless you let them"!

Bottom line I love my bike, and any complainers can F.. Off and Die!

Lol!
I'd love to ride one. My favs always seem to fall in the 370 to 430 range...BUT...those are a 370 Bultaco and a 430 Husky. I did have a '00 KTM 380SX and '03 Service Honda 500AF. Current modern ride is Husky TC250, its easy to ride but I'd love to try a YZ325....or a TC325 would be awesome. Brother built a SX300 and that thing was a monster, hit Mike Tyson in his prime...way too much for this old fart
resetjet
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10/19/2019 7:24pm
Dead last on moto 1 start.
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1
10/19/2019 8:11pm
The 325 will not pull as long as a 450, shorter starts like this Right Hander may be more beneficial . He did miss the option if going hard left to the inside, might have helped.



But a ESR 325 moved up to 16th, then finished where he started in 19th. For a 2007/2008 Technology Bike that cost about 50% of the others you can't complain.
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