Gear grades. Why don't companies have it?

zippytech
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Bethesda, OH, USA
Edited Date/Time 9/5/2019 2:50pm
Ok, so when i order new pants, boots or what ever. I would rather just have

grade 1 for the best they sell
grade 2 for the next best they sell
grade 3 for say middle of the line
grade 4 for close to bottom

ect..

sort of like bolts. grade 4 5 8 what ever.

not names that we have no idea one from the other.

It would be much simpler when buying new stuff.!
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Alex.434
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9/4/2019 4:38pm
Because that's not how marketing works Smile Consumers never like to feel like they are buying 'the bottom rung' of certain products.
8
DA498
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9/4/2019 4:40pm
The price tag tells you the grade
26
kkawboy14
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9/4/2019 4:52pm
These guys can’t even get small medium and large right!


16
kkawboy14
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9/4/2019 4:55pm
“When you reflect on all the symbols, gestures, and phrases that bombard your everyday existence, you may find a panoply of simple words that are missing a definition. Case in point: how many times have you or a friend said “I’d like a venti latte” without pausing to consider what venti actually means?

First of all, here are the size options: tall (12 ounces), grande (16), venti (24), and trenta (31).

Let’s briefly address tall. This designation by the coffee company is considered by many to be a classic instance of corporate language manipulation. Tall sounds like small but means something close to the opposite. The result arguably encourages a consumer to think a little less about the size of his or her beverage as well as the size of the bill.

Grande is Italian for “large,” venti means “twenty,” and trenta is “thirty.” Why isn’t the 16-ounce size sedici (Italian for sixteen) instead? Perhaps because grande conjures associations with the English “grand.” Why not follow this logic and apply names that are evocative of English terms to the remaining two sizes? The less-familiar venti and trenta may help consumers forget the cost or calorie count of what they are about to drink.”


Apply all that to gear companies!
6

The Shop

Johnny Ringo
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9/4/2019 5:00pm
The price will tell you everything
4
JM485
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9/4/2019 5:03pm
I’d like to take this moment to express my hatered of marketing. I hate it, I suck at it, I think the ideas they come up with are stupid, I think the things they worry about are stupid, I don’t like my intelligence being insulted, I don’t like having adds shoved in my face 24/7 (the more adds I see he less likely I am to buy), and I especially don’t like having to shift through mountains of bullshit when I’m looking for technical data on a product or component only to find units of measure have been omitted by the jackass who wrote the spec sheet because it’s beyond their understanding.

That’s all, I’ve said it, I feel better now. I’m also a hypocrite because I now have to engage in the dreaded practice since I’ve started my own company, and I still don’t like it one bit and refuse to bullshit people. If quality things could just sell themselves off of technical data and pricing alone the world would be a much simpler and happier place, and much more efficient.
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Hman144
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Fantasy
9/4/2019 5:39pm
Kawboy- nobody's gonna call you out on the misused dollar word in that post you cut and pasted? Okay, if it wasn't yours, we'll let you slide.

kkawboy14
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9/4/2019 7:37pm
Hman144 wrote:
Kawboy- nobody's gonna call you out on the misused dollar word in that post you cut and pasted? Okay, if it wasn't yours, we'll let you...
Kawboy- nobody's gonna call you out on the misused dollar word in that post you cut and pasted? Okay, if it wasn't yours, we'll let you slide.

Copied from dictionary.com 😂
Moto520
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9/4/2019 8:52pm
We can help you with the grades. Example for fox:
180 gear......c
360 .......b
Flexair.....a

Ill bet someone can do the same for each brand of gear!
3
Zaugg
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9/4/2019 9:02pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2019 9:04pm
JM485 wrote:
I’d like to take this moment to express my hatered of marketing. I hate it, I suck at it, I think the ideas they come up...
I’d like to take this moment to express my hatered of marketing. I hate it, I suck at it, I think the ideas they come up with are stupid, I think the things they worry about are stupid, I don’t like my intelligence being insulted, I don’t like having adds shoved in my face 24/7 (the more adds I see he less likely I am to buy), and I especially don’t like having to shift through mountains of bullshit when I’m looking for technical data on a product or component only to find units of measure have been omitted by the jackass who wrote the spec sheet because it’s beyond their understanding.

That’s all, I’ve said it, I feel better now. I’m also a hypocrite because I now have to engage in the dreaded practice since I’ve started my own company, and I still don’t like it one bit and refuse to bullshit people. If quality things could just sell themselves off of technical data and pricing alone the world would be a much simpler and happier place, and much more efficient.
Marketing is part of selling a product or service. There is good marketing and bad. You're rant is mainly about false advertising and less about marketing as a whole.

As a business owner, you'll realize the power of proper marketing. You don't like it probably because you don't fully understand it...not trying to be insulting. You associate it with smarmy unsavory suit wearing types but in reality, if you own a business and want to thrive, you need a marketing plan.

This is the reason why many small companies...especially in moto...fail. They don't do the research, they don't present themselves or tell the right story about their company (brand), and they look at words like "brand" as a 4-letter word.

As a business owner-you'll recognize marketing works. Those that rant about "marketing" and "advertising" don't realize the reason they buy anything is because of marketing.

(You say you don't buy something because of ads or color or slogans. I beg to differ. Specs, color, size, following racing, cheering on a favorite athlete, etc...all marketing my friend. Ads and slogans and such are just a small part of marketing.)

For example: "If quality things could just sell themselves off of technical data and pricing alone the world would be a much simpler and happier place, and much more efficient." This is actually a marketing strategy. What you're complaining about is advertising and...yes...it's necessary. (A part of marketing.) Ask yourself these questions- How do people find your product? How do they know how much it costs? What does that technical data mean? (You guessed it...you need marketing to help get that info out.)

Marketing is like air. It's everywhere. And as a business, you need it to survive.

(Sorry if you took that a condescending. That was not the intent. Just trying to build some awareness of how marketing works.)





3
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smee113
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9/4/2019 11:32pm
Price will generally tell you the quality of a product, but it isn't perfect. A lot of companies know people associate price with quality and will over price their goods to give the impression that it's of a higher quality.

Product reviews will give you a better idea of whether the product is worth it's cost.
zippytech
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9/5/2019 4:51am
Price is how I been doing it, but when you shop last years models the price can be hard to tell what models I want. Be nice to just call them what they are cheap, cheaper, cheapest..
9/5/2019 5:06am
kkawboy14 wrote:
“When you reflect on all the symbols, gestures, and phrases that bombard your everyday existence, you may find a panoply of simple words that are missing...
“When you reflect on all the symbols, gestures, and phrases that bombard your everyday existence, you may find a panoply of simple words that are missing a definition. Case in point: how many times have you or a friend said “I’d like a venti latte” without pausing to consider what venti actually means?

First of all, here are the size options: tall (12 ounces), grande (16), venti (24), and trenta (31).

Let’s briefly address tall. This designation by the coffee company is considered by many to be a classic instance of corporate language manipulation. Tall sounds like small but means something close to the opposite. The result arguably encourages a consumer to think a little less about the size of his or her beverage as well as the size of the bill.

Grande is Italian for “large,” venti means “twenty,” and trenta is “thirty.” Why isn’t the 16-ounce size sedici (Italian for sixteen) instead? Perhaps because grande conjures associations with the English “grand.” Why not follow this logic and apply names that are evocative of English terms to the remaining two sizes? The less-familiar venti and trenta may help consumers forget the cost or calorie count of what they are about to drink.”


Apply all that to gear companies!
"Case in point: how many times have you or a friend said “I’d like a venti latte” without pausing to consider what venti actually means?"

Exactly zero times in my lifetime.
2
ElliotB16
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9/5/2019 5:08am
Who would release a gear and put a D or C grade beside it? Just do research and buy what you’re comfortable affording.
Casting
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9/5/2019 6:12am
You can always pull a FLY Racing and release inaccurate data within the helmet info-graphic; while in the same breath claiming the lab that designed helmet components is also an independent lab who tested the product.

...and people wonder why corporate marketing is distrusted Whistling


Do your own research, and look beyond what the advertisements claim. Like others have said, user reviews can be helpful. Talk to people you trust at your local shop.

1
JM485
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Davis, CA, USA
9/5/2019 9:24am
JM485 wrote:
I’d like to take this moment to express my hatered of marketing. I hate it, I suck at it, I think the ideas they come up...
I’d like to take this moment to express my hatered of marketing. I hate it, I suck at it, I think the ideas they come up with are stupid, I think the things they worry about are stupid, I don’t like my intelligence being insulted, I don’t like having adds shoved in my face 24/7 (the more adds I see he less likely I am to buy), and I especially don’t like having to shift through mountains of bullshit when I’m looking for technical data on a product or component only to find units of measure have been omitted by the jackass who wrote the spec sheet because it’s beyond their understanding.

That’s all, I’ve said it, I feel better now. I’m also a hypocrite because I now have to engage in the dreaded practice since I’ve started my own company, and I still don’t like it one bit and refuse to bullshit people. If quality things could just sell themselves off of technical data and pricing alone the world would be a much simpler and happier place, and much more efficient.
Zaugg wrote:
Marketing is part of selling a product or service. There is good marketing and bad. You're rant is mainly about false advertising and less about marketing...
Marketing is part of selling a product or service. There is good marketing and bad. You're rant is mainly about false advertising and less about marketing as a whole.

As a business owner, you'll realize the power of proper marketing. You don't like it probably because you don't fully understand it...not trying to be insulting. You associate it with smarmy unsavory suit wearing types but in reality, if you own a business and want to thrive, you need a marketing plan.

This is the reason why many small companies...especially in moto...fail. They don't do the research, they don't present themselves or tell the right story about their company (brand), and they look at words like "brand" as a 4-letter word.

As a business owner-you'll recognize marketing works. Those that rant about "marketing" and "advertising" don't realize the reason they buy anything is because of marketing.

(You say you don't buy something because of ads or color or slogans. I beg to differ. Specs, color, size, following racing, cheering on a favorite athlete, etc...all marketing my friend. Ads and slogans and such are just a small part of marketing.)

For example: "If quality things could just sell themselves off of technical data and pricing alone the world would be a much simpler and happier place, and much more efficient." This is actually a marketing strategy. What you're complaining about is advertising and...yes...it's necessary. (A part of marketing.) Ask yourself these questions- How do people find your product? How do they know how much it costs? What does that technical data mean? (You guessed it...you need marketing to help get that info out.)

Marketing is like air. It's everywhere. And as a business, you need it to survive.

(Sorry if you took that a condescending. That was not the intent. Just trying to build some awareness of how marketing works.)





Not at all brother, you’re dead on with everything you said. There’s always going to be the age old struggle between engineering and marketing, what we see as extremely important, they see as a non-issue and care only about things that we see as insignificant in the function of a product. Form vs function, unfortunately they’re often at odds with each other. I run into this constantly at my day job, I’ll design something that I think is great and will function well, only to spend half an hour listening to the marketing team argue about the color of the wheelsLaughing

It’s a necessary evil that I’ll have to learn the benefits of, but at the same time when it comes to my own side business I refuse to BS people or be misleading with generic information. I would much rather be a bit over some peoples heads with info than risk misrepresenting a product by not being specific enough about its functions and limitations.
1
Hudd_421
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656
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Location
USA
9/5/2019 9:38am
JM485 wrote:
I’d like to take this moment to express my hatered of marketing. I hate it, I suck at it, I think the ideas they come up...
I’d like to take this moment to express my hatered of marketing. I hate it, I suck at it, I think the ideas they come up with are stupid, I think the things they worry about are stupid, I don’t like my intelligence being insulted, I don’t like having adds shoved in my face 24/7 (the more adds I see he less likely I am to buy), and I especially don’t like having to shift through mountains of bullshit when I’m looking for technical data on a product or component only to find units of measure have been omitted by the jackass who wrote the spec sheet because it’s beyond their understanding.

That’s all, I’ve said it, I feel better now. I’m also a hypocrite because I now have to engage in the dreaded practice since I’ve started my own company, and I still don’t like it one bit and refuse to bullshit people. If quality things could just sell themselves off of technical data and pricing alone the world would be a much simpler and happier place, and much more efficient.
Zaugg wrote:
Marketing is part of selling a product or service. There is good marketing and bad. You're rant is mainly about false advertising and less about marketing...
Marketing is part of selling a product or service. There is good marketing and bad. You're rant is mainly about false advertising and less about marketing as a whole.

As a business owner, you'll realize the power of proper marketing. You don't like it probably because you don't fully understand it...not trying to be insulting. You associate it with smarmy unsavory suit wearing types but in reality, if you own a business and want to thrive, you need a marketing plan.

This is the reason why many small companies...especially in moto...fail. They don't do the research, they don't present themselves or tell the right story about their company (brand), and they look at words like "brand" as a 4-letter word.

As a business owner-you'll recognize marketing works. Those that rant about "marketing" and "advertising" don't realize the reason they buy anything is because of marketing.

(You say you don't buy something because of ads or color or slogans. I beg to differ. Specs, color, size, following racing, cheering on a favorite athlete, etc...all marketing my friend. Ads and slogans and such are just a small part of marketing.)

For example: "If quality things could just sell themselves off of technical data and pricing alone the world would be a much simpler and happier place, and much more efficient." This is actually a marketing strategy. What you're complaining about is advertising and...yes...it's necessary. (A part of marketing.) Ask yourself these questions- How do people find your product? How do they know how much it costs? What does that technical data mean? (You guessed it...you need marketing to help get that info out.)

Marketing is like air. It's everywhere. And as a business, you need it to survive.

(Sorry if you took that a condescending. That was not the intent. Just trying to build some awareness of how marketing works.)





JM485 wrote:
Not at all brother, you’re dead on with everything you said. There’s always going to be the age old struggle between engineering and marketing, what we...
Not at all brother, you’re dead on with everything you said. There’s always going to be the age old struggle between engineering and marketing, what we see as extremely important, they see as a non-issue and care only about things that we see as insignificant in the function of a product. Form vs function, unfortunately they’re often at odds with each other. I run into this constantly at my day job, I’ll design something that I think is great and will function well, only to spend half an hour listening to the marketing team argue about the color of the wheelsLaughing

It’s a necessary evil that I’ll have to learn the benefits of, but at the same time when it comes to my own side business I refuse to BS people or be misleading with generic information. I would much rather be a bit over some peoples heads with info than risk misrepresenting a product by not being specific enough about its functions and limitations.
Marketing in Moto has always been a struggle for many. What most companies always seem to miss the mark, is product education. They'll market something as "new" but I never seem to grasp the "why" or "what". As in, what benefit does your new product deliver, and how is this different (aside from design) than the last year's or other companies.
vdrsnk04
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9/5/2019 9:49am
Alex.434 wrote:
Because that's not how marketing works Smile Consumers never like to feel like they are buying 'the bottom rung' of certain products.
is that why they have different trim levels in cars and trucks? Silly
9/5/2019 10:20am
Moto520 wrote:
We can help you with the grades. Example for fox: 180 gear......c 360 .......b Flexair.....a Ill bet someone can do the same for each brand of...
We can help you with the grades. Example for fox:
180 gear......c
360 .......b
Flexair.....a

Ill bet someone can do the same for each brand of gear!
O'neal
Element- Low cost, lower quality
Hardware- Higher cost, better quality
Klinger
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Tustin, CA, USA
9/5/2019 10:24am
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation.

Fly
A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo
B: Kinetic
C: F-16

Fox
A: FlexAir/Airline
B: 360
C: 180

Thor
A: Prime Pro
B: Pulse
C: Sector

TLD
A: SE Pro
B: SE
C: GP

Astars
A: Supertech
B: Techstar
C: Racer

FXR:
A: Helium
B: Revo (but more like A-)
C: Clutch

Moose:
A: Sahara
B: M1
C: Qualifier

Not 100% sure with Answer (just changed gear line names) and haven't dealt much with O'neal.
4
2
Hudd_421
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Location
USA
9/5/2019 10:55am
Klinger wrote:
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation. Fly A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo B: Kinetic C: F-16 Fox A: FlexAir/Airline...
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation.

Fly
A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo
B: Kinetic
C: F-16

Fox
A: FlexAir/Airline
B: 360
C: 180

Thor
A: Prime Pro
B: Pulse
C: Sector

TLD
A: SE Pro
B: SE
C: GP

Astars
A: Supertech
B: Techstar
C: Racer

FXR:
A: Helium
B: Revo (but more like A-)
C: Clutch

Moose:
A: Sahara
B: M1
C: Qualifier

Not 100% sure with Answer (just changed gear line names) and haven't dealt much with O'neal.
But here's the thing...not all letter qualities line up...Fly's F16 or Answers Syncron is no where near the "C" level of TLD's GP or A Stars Racer.
9/5/2019 11:27am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2019 11:29am
Bolt grade is a rating of specific minimum load properties that the bolt conforms to. What quantifiable metric are you basing gear "grade" on?
1
zippytech
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Location
Bethesda, OH, USA
9/5/2019 11:40am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2019 11:45am
Klinger wrote:
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation. Fly A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo B: Kinetic C: F-16 Fox A: FlexAir/Airline...
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation.

Fly
A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo
B: Kinetic
C: F-16

Fox
A: FlexAir/Airline
B: 360
C: 180

Thor
A: Prime Pro
B: Pulse
C: Sector

TLD
A: SE Pro
B: SE
C: GP

Astars
A: Supertech
B: Techstar
C: Racer

FXR:
A: Helium
B: Revo (but more like A-)
C: Clutch

Moose:
A: Sahara
B: M1
C: Qualifier

Not 100% sure with Answer (just changed gear line names) and haven't dealt much with O'neal.
Perfect. that's what I was looking for. Companies should rate the stuff. No everyone has access to the products and not everyone has days and weeks to research.

I generally shoot for the B stuff.

Thanks..

I know several guys that will use this list
2
Hudd_421
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Location
USA
9/5/2019 11:46am
Klinger wrote:
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation. Fly A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo B: Kinetic C: F-16 Fox A: FlexAir/Airline...
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation.

Fly
A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo
B: Kinetic
C: F-16

Fox
A: FlexAir/Airline
B: 360
C: 180

Thor
A: Prime Pro
B: Pulse
C: Sector

TLD
A: SE Pro
B: SE
C: GP

Astars
A: Supertech
B: Techstar
C: Racer

FXR:
A: Helium
B: Revo (but more like A-)
C: Clutch

Moose:
A: Sahara
B: M1
C: Qualifier

Not 100% sure with Answer (just changed gear line names) and haven't dealt much with O'neal.
zippytech wrote:
Perfect. that's what I was looking for. Companies should rate the stuff. No everyone has access to the products and not everyone has days and weeks...
Perfect. that's what I was looking for. Companies should rate the stuff. No everyone has access to the products and not everyone has days and weeks to research.

I generally shoot for the B stuff.

Thanks..

I know several guys that will use this list
Honestly does price not indicate value for you? Looking at Fox/Fly/ETC... website, there's clear price ranges that should tip you off.

Like i said in my previous post, not all A/B/C labeled gear listed here is equal. I'd put my A Stars TechStar with the rest of the "A" group gear.
Spooner
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Location
Kansas City, MO, USA
9/5/2019 11:50am
The problem is that just because it’s more expensive doesn’t mean it’s more durable. It might vent more, increase ease of motion, etc but be less durable. It depends on what you’re looking for in gear. And like someone said above, one companies ‘b’ level gear is probably not equal to or even the same type of gear as another ‘b’ gear. Same with the leather on the knees, some companies use split grain, some are full grain which makes a big difference too in durability. Many brands don’t tell you what it is which generally means it’s split grain. On Thor and Moose all pants that have leather are full grain leather which is a nice upgrade over some other brands.
zippytech
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Location
Bethesda, OH, USA
9/5/2019 12:25pm
Price does to a point, but I buy most of my stuff on clearance,or left over stuff so price don't really work.

I was looking the other day at a pair of 2019 pair of pants that was selling for 69.99 I never buy would never buy the 69.99 pants if they was 2020 models cause that is the bottom line for most companies. but because they was 2018 or 19's they was 50% off. So if I was just going by price I would have thought they was the same as the cheap junk.

Not the higher quality pants that they was selling.

Hudd_421
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656
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Location
USA
9/5/2019 12:30pm
Sounds like you're not doing any due diligence or research on your end.
2
zippytech
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9/5/2019 12:41pm
Hudd_421 wrote:
Sounds like you're not doing any due diligence or research on your end.
No I don't, I don't buy often, (like 5 or 10 years ) but when I do, I like to buy decent stuff and I buy enough that will last me years.

Last time I got a new pair of pants was AXO at the Cleveland ims. SO it has been a while.

I rather spend the time riding instead of trying to figure out what's decent and what is shit. When you shop in the clearance bin the good stuff from last year gets mixed in the this years cheap junk so it can be hard to tell what is what if you are not in the know. I am not in the know.
Moto520
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3666
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Location
Schaumburg, IL, USA
9/5/2019 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2019 1:22pm
Klinger wrote:
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation. Fly A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo B: Kinetic C: F-16 Fox A: FlexAir/Airline...
These are just off the top of my head, and open to some interpretation.

Fly
A: Lite Hydrogen/ Evo
B: Kinetic
C: F-16

Fox
A: FlexAir/Airline
B: 360
C: 180

Thor
A: Prime Pro
B: Pulse
C: Sector

TLD
A: SE Pro
B: SE
C: GP

Astars
A: Supertech
B: Techstar
C: Racer

FXR:
A: Helium
B: Revo (but more like A-)
C: Clutch

Moose:
A: Sahara
B: M1
C: Qualifier

Not 100% sure with Answer (just changed gear line names) and haven't dealt much with O'neal.
put the Fox Airline underneath the Fox 360! The Airline is not the new, stretchy material.
Hudd_421
Posts
656
Joined
2/17/2015
Location
USA
9/5/2019 1:27pm
Hudd_421 wrote:
Sounds like you're not doing any due diligence or research on your end.
zippytech wrote:
No I don't, I don't buy often, (like 5 or 10 years ) but when I do, I like to buy decent stuff and I buy...
No I don't, I don't buy often, (like 5 or 10 years ) but when I do, I like to buy decent stuff and I buy enough that will last me years.

Last time I got a new pair of pants was AXO at the Cleveland ims. SO it has been a while.

I rather spend the time riding instead of trying to figure out what's decent and what is shit. When you shop in the clearance bin the good stuff from last year gets mixed in the this years cheap junk so it can be hard to tell what is what if you are not in the know. I am not in the know.
So you've taken the time to post here 370 times, but just browsing a few online retailers, or looking gear lines to see their price before sale cuts into your riding time???
1

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