Crazy costs of health care

mxtech1
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1968
Joined
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Location
Galesburg, IL, USA
Edited Date/Time 7/17/2019 11:44am
Recently had a trip the ER.

Was there 3 hours and received an IV and X-Ray, probably 140 minutes of that time was just waiting around.

Bill is $18,000 dollars. The hospital charges for the stay, for the lab, for the x-ray, for everything.

I have UHC healthcare, but I'll still be liable for a big chunk and possibly hit max out of pocket. Luckily I've been investing heavily in my HSA to cover exactly this BS stuff.

Soap box, but the cost hospitals are allowed to even bill should be considered criminal. They know you can't exactly shop-around for this stuff and every dam hospital is equally expensive. How is it not considered price fixing?

What would happen if people actually wised up and all collectively stopped paying medical bills as a form of peaceful protest?

Any crazy stories about high costs for little service?

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RONJ OSE
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352
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USA
7/12/2019 7:50pm
Well that’s how shit goes, I have all ready reached my maximum this year so I am going to see every doctor I have ever needed to see this year!!
If you “wise up” and stop paying your bill it makes you a dick, the doctor has to feed his family too.
You have to play the game and I hate playing games
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rucka356
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Knoxville, TN, USA
7/12/2019 8:25pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2019 8:26pm
It cost you so they can cover costs for everyone else that doesn't pay. Of course I hear if your an undocumented immigrant in CA you get a pretty good deal on healthcare now...
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motogrady
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USA
7/12/2019 8:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2019 8:34pm
They are not little gods like many would say and a few of them believe.
They are human beings.

I say deregulate the whole thing.
Get rid of hippa.
Put the American Medical Association on the frying pan. Either they quadruple the amount of doctors they produce or certify 10 other entities to create doctors.

Expand the Veterans Hospitals to handle the general public. You can't pay, see a government Doctor.
You wanna get your own guy, and pay his rate that's cool. Just don't lock the profession up so they can just charge what they want.

Medicine, screw the likes of Myland.
You want aspirin from China, or some cutting edge cancer pills from Canada it should be your choice.
Whoever invented it.

The guys that invented MRIs, they've made their millions. Mass produce those things.

To make millions on the backs of the sick and inferm,
I dunno, it's fucking criminal imo.
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KennyT
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Vista, CA, USA
Fantasy
7/12/2019 8:58pm
You see making up for the millions who walk in and don’t pay a dime.

I needed a few stitches on a finger last year and it was around $1,200. Maximum 10 mins of care from a physicians assistant/nurse. Did such a poor job it required a trip to my regular doctor a few days later.

The Shop

motogrady
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USA
7/12/2019 9:13pm
KennyT wrote:
You see making up for the millions who walk in and don’t pay a dime. I needed a few stitches on a finger last year and...
You see making up for the millions who walk in and don’t pay a dime.

I needed a few stitches on a finger last year and it was around $1,200. Maximum 10 mins of care from a physicians assistant/nurse. Did such a poor job it required a trip to my regular doctor a few days later.
How about this one Kenny.
2014 I went to work for a big company.
Obama care was going to fine me if I didn't have insurance.
At 60, my policy with Highmark went to 1150. A month. Paid that for 4 years.
Add that up.
1150 times 12 times 4.
And never used it.
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SEEMEFIRST
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Location
Arlington, TX, USA
7/12/2019 9:39pm
KennyT wrote:
You see making up for the millions who walk in and don’t pay a dime. I needed a few stitches on a finger last year and...
You see making up for the millions who walk in and don’t pay a dime.

I needed a few stitches on a finger last year and it was around $1,200. Maximum 10 mins of care from a physicians assistant/nurse. Did such a poor job it required a trip to my regular doctor a few days later.
motogrady wrote:
How about this one Kenny. 2014 I went to work for a big company. Obama care was going to fine me if I didn't have insurance...
How about this one Kenny.
2014 I went to work for a big company.
Obama care was going to fine me if I didn't have insurance.
At 60, my policy with Highmark went to 1150. A month. Paid that for 4 years.
Add that up.
1150 times 12 times 4.
And never used it.
Ain't it grand?
-MAVERICK-
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Ontario, CA
7/12/2019 10:36pm
I don't know how you guys do it. That's just ridiculous.
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Deja New
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11/22/2016
Location
AU
7/12/2019 11:14pm
mxtech1 wrote:
Recently had a trip the ER. Was there 3 hours and received an IV and X-Ray, probably 140 minutes of that time was just waiting around...
Recently had a trip the ER.

Was there 3 hours and received an IV and X-Ray, probably 140 minutes of that time was just waiting around.

Bill is $18,000 dollars. The hospital charges for the stay, for the lab, for the x-ray, for everything.

I have UHC healthcare, but I'll still be liable for a big chunk and possibly hit max out of pocket. Luckily I've been investing heavily in my HSA to cover exactly this BS stuff.

Soap box, but the cost hospitals are allowed to even bill should be considered criminal. They know you can't exactly shop-around for this stuff and every dam hospital is equally expensive. How is it not considered price fixing?

What would happen if people actually wised up and all collectively stopped paying medical bills as a form of peaceful protest?

Any crazy stories about high costs for little service?

Gotta love our Aussie system it’s all free !!! I have no idea how you guys do it Sad kudos to you all that ride knowing the risk and the cost.... here I have only insurance for income protection if something happens I can still meet all my bills.
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7/12/2019 11:21pm
I was the triage nurse at the ER today, so I got to talk to every patient that came in. People came in demanding certain tests, that were completely unnecessary. People came in for cuts that literally just needed a Band-Aid. Some came in asking for narcotics, because they were addicted. We legally can't tell anybody that they are stupid and don't need to be there because of that .001% chance that something serious could actually be wrong with them...and because the hospitals want their money.

Throughout the entire 12 hour shift nobody got admitted, nobody actually needed to stay in hospital, out of the 30 people that came in. (It's a very small hospital) 90% of these people could have just been seen at a simple clinic for a lot less money. But because of potential lawsuits, a lot of these people got full $30k work ups. Im in commiefornia too, so taxes paid for most of it.

I think the first step to fixing any of it, would be to educate people, even minimally, about how their bodies work. That could prevent a lot of this waste. But that wont happen

Sorry about your bill, sometimes you can call the billing department of the hospital and negotiate a lower price.
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SEEMEFIRST
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Arlington, TX, USA
7/12/2019 11:44pm
There ya go....
7/13/2019 1:17am
Deja New wrote:
Gotta love our Aussie system it’s all free !!! I have no idea how you guys do it :( kudos to you all that ride knowing...
Gotta love our Aussie system it’s all free !!! I have no idea how you guys do it Sad kudos to you all that ride knowing the risk and the cost.... here I have only insurance for income protection if something happens I can still meet all my bills.
we dont even need that over here in NZ, if its an accident then we will get 80% of our wages till we are back at work,

fuck this socialised medicine sucks at times,
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Deja New
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AU
7/13/2019 1:32am
Deja New wrote:
Gotta love our Aussie system it’s all free !!! I have no idea how you guys do it :( kudos to you all that ride knowing...
Gotta love our Aussie system it’s all free !!! I have no idea how you guys do it Sad kudos to you all that ride knowing the risk and the cost.... here I have only insurance for income protection if something happens I can still meet all my bills.
scott_nz wrote:
we dont even need that over here in NZ, if its an accident then we will get 80% of our wages till we are back at...
we dont even need that over here in NZ, if its an accident then we will get 80% of our wages till we are back at work,

fuck this socialised medicine sucks at times,
We have compo if if you’re employed but I have my own business so I have to pay my own Sad go figure....
If had a few get offs and needs surgery all free Smile just not my wages.
TXDirt
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Plano, TX, USA
7/13/2019 5:14am
Health Insurance companies at a minimum should all be non profit entities.

We took an ambulance ride when our daughter had a seizure to a children’s hospital. At the hospital she saw a doctor for a few minutes. She received 2 popsicles and Motrin and Tylenol. We were there two hours.

Ambulance ride was $800
Hospital Bill was $5,700

We are on a high deductible plan via my work so I’ll pay most/all that out if pocket. I will have hit my maximum for the year so anything else is “free” if there is such a thing.

Health costs are out of control.
7/13/2019 7:02am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 7:03am
My 3 year old son was just admitted for a blood disorder. We were there 48 hours. He had his blood drawn 5 times and a 12 hour infusion. The bill was $57,000. Luckily my wife is a nurse and has good insurance. Cost us $250.

Edit: We pay $850 a month for a family of 5.
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racin mason
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Long Beach, WA, USA
7/13/2019 8:45am
When I went to work after hi school graduation I paid $50 a month for Blue Cross. I had no co-pay no deductible,I was getting paid a little above minimum wage. It took me about a day and a half of work to pay for all of my medical expenses each month.. Now I pay $1743.00 a month for my wife and I, $6500 deductible and co.pays on almost everything .Our annual health care cost is around $30 k, including vision and dental.
mxtech1
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1968
Joined
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Location
Galesburg, IL, USA
7/13/2019 9:42am
I just don't agree with how the fed can allow it to go un-regulated like this. Health care services and Pharma both.

I'm not oblivious to the political lobbying and politician deals that get made, it has been like that for a long time.

We'll end up paying about $7,500 before we reach our max. That's crippling for most middle and lower class families already paying high monthly premiums.

They just don't get the financial burdens it places on people. A single health care bill for routine services can cause financial havoc for years.

I am not advocating that health care should be free, but regulation that makes costs reasonable and upfront. There should be more education and discussion where costs of services should be disclosed before happening (in non emergency situations)

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824 Dad
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Murrieta, CA, USA
7/13/2019 9:59am
I don’t feel the problem is the insurance companies, like every business they need to make a profit.
It’s what the doctors, hospitals and pharma companies charge, it’s just ridiculous.

KHI Guy
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Cleveland, OH, USA
7/13/2019 10:43am
Y'all are mistaken. The Affordable Care Act fixed everything. Whistling
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ocscottie
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Redding, CA, USA
7/13/2019 10:51am
Yesterday marked 5 weeks I have been in the hospital, first three in ICU, and the last two weeks in a rehab center. I don’t even want to begin to guesstimate the bill I have racked up, Hell the ICU bill alone is probably so out of hand.
7/13/2019 11:31am
ocscottie wrote:
Yesterday marked 5 weeks I have been in the hospital, first three in ICU, and the last two weeks in a rehab center. I don’t even...
Yesterday marked 5 weeks I have been in the hospital, first three in ICU, and the last two weeks in a rehab center. I don’t even want to begin to guesstimate the bill I have racked up, Hell the ICU bill alone is probably so out of hand.
For sure. I had an uncle who had emergency bypass surgery. He said he almost had another heart attack when he opened up the first bill and saw how much.
APLMAN99
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Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
7/13/2019 12:08pm
I was the triage nurse at the ER today, so I got to talk to every patient that came in. People came in demanding certain tests...
I was the triage nurse at the ER today, so I got to talk to every patient that came in. People came in demanding certain tests, that were completely unnecessary. People came in for cuts that literally just needed a Band-Aid. Some came in asking for narcotics, because they were addicted. We legally can't tell anybody that they are stupid and don't need to be there because of that .001% chance that something serious could actually be wrong with them...and because the hospitals want their money.

Throughout the entire 12 hour shift nobody got admitted, nobody actually needed to stay in hospital, out of the 30 people that came in. (It's a very small hospital) 90% of these people could have just been seen at a simple clinic for a lot less money. But because of potential lawsuits, a lot of these people got full $30k work ups. Im in commiefornia too, so taxes paid for most of it.

I think the first step to fixing any of it, would be to educate people, even minimally, about how their bodies work. That could prevent a lot of this waste. But that wont happen

Sorry about your bill, sometimes you can call the billing department of the hospital and negotiate a lower price.
$30K workups......

Think about that for a bit. And average out that some will likely be billed more for actual treatment, and some less, but the OPs initial post shows even simple diagnostics are pretty aggressively billed.

That’s $900,000 of charges for 30 patients, 2.5 patients per hour.

That’d be $1.8 million if that pace occurred for 24 hours.

ERs are open 24/7, so 365 x $1.8M = $657M in charges. For only the ER department.

It’s hard to justify nearly 2/3 of a BILLION DOLLARS in charges for an ER that sees less than 3 new patients an hour. Hard to blame that fee schedule on the uninsured, especially if the hospital is paid by the government for those folks. The problem sounds much more like just pure greed.....
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7/13/2019 12:22pm
I don’t know how you guys do it over there, some of the prices I see floated around on this forum for insurance is eye watering.

Call me a damn commy but I don’t think healthcare should ever be a for profit business.

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mxdude105
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USA
7/13/2019 12:42pm
ICU nurse here. I can't speak to insane post-admission bills like OP is referencing, since I have little to no involvement with the billing process. I will highlight the following two points though.

As one of the other posters said above, a great deal of money is spent on unneccessary tests and procedures because of the cover-your-ass, lawsuit prone nature of this country. If someone *might* have some condition, even if it is highly unlikely, we will put them through every diagnostic test in the book. Because if we don't, and something happens down the line that we "missed", you can bet your ass the hospital and the medical team itself will be sued. Malpractice claims and lawsuits are a huge reason healthcare is so expensive here.

The other problem I see first hand is administrative bloat. We have many administrative/management personnel making six-figure salaries who never lay hands on patients. Many of them are former nurses and doctors who are working "retirement in place" type gigs where they are doing very simple, nonskilled work for outrageous salaries. The sort of work you could pay an administrative assistant $13/hr to do. Healthcare in the U.S. is rampant with people like this. Our system leadership, in a "non-profit" organization, make 500-600k+ per year. And we're just one hospital in one city.

It's a pretty fucked up system once you see it from the inside.
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mxtech1
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1968
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Location
Galesburg, IL, USA
7/13/2019 2:39pm
ocscottie wrote:
Yesterday marked 5 weeks I have been in the hospital, first three in ICU, and the last two weeks in a rehab center. I don’t even...
Yesterday marked 5 weeks I have been in the hospital, first three in ICU, and the last two weeks in a rehab center. I don’t even want to begin to guesstimate the bill I have racked up, Hell the ICU bill alone is probably so out of hand.
Sorry man, that's a rough go of it! Good vibes your way.
mxtech1
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1968
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Location
Galesburg, IL, USA
7/13/2019 2:52pm
mxdude105 wrote:
ICU nurse here. I can't speak to insane post-admission bills like OP is referencing, since I have little to no involvement with the billing process. I...
ICU nurse here. I can't speak to insane post-admission bills like OP is referencing, since I have little to no involvement with the billing process. I will highlight the following two points though.

As one of the other posters said above, a great deal of money is spent on unneccessary tests and procedures because of the cover-your-ass, lawsuit prone nature of this country. If someone *might* have some condition, even if it is highly unlikely, we will put them through every diagnostic test in the book. Because if we don't, and something happens down the line that we "missed", you can bet your ass the hospital and the medical team itself will be sued. Malpractice claims and lawsuits are a huge reason healthcare is so expensive here.

The other problem I see first hand is administrative bloat. We have many administrative/management personnel making six-figure salaries who never lay hands on patients. Many of them are former nurses and doctors who are working "retirement in place" type gigs where they are doing very simple, nonskilled work for outrageous salaries. The sort of work you could pay an administrative assistant $13/hr to do. Healthcare in the U.S. is rampant with people like this. Our system leadership, in a "non-profit" organization, make 500-600k+ per year. And we're just one hospital in one city.

It's a pretty fucked up system once you see it from the inside.
What I don't agree with is that even after all the extra fat being paid, there is still a grossly negligent amount of markup that gets added to set the profit margins. This is the amount that needs to be regulated along with the extra work behind the scenes that you mentioned.






10000hrs
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Satan's Kingdom, VT, USA
7/13/2019 3:14pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 3:22pm
This story drives me psyho.

https://outline.com/FL8HCa

Summary:

Hospital raises price for knee surgery 3% a year no matter what till its $50,000

Somebody asks “ How do we know we are making money.”

Nobody knows what it costs

They do a study a find out it costs $10,500.

So if this is typical, your health care cost 5X what they could be.



This link picks up the graphics link better.

http://archive.is/imVv3
plowboy
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Norwich, KS, USA
7/13/2019 3:52pm
Might as well move this over to the Global Rage Thread.
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7/13/2019 4:02pm
You think health care is expensive now? Wait till it's free!
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7/13/2019 4:08pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 4:10pm
Close the borders and that may or may not cut down on a lot of non-paying ER seekers. Won’t eliminate it all, but why is it up to us to insure illegals or eat their cost of non-payment ?

Even if you fly here legally on a visa and show up to a hospital you never have to pay that bill. So maybe the border closing wouldn’t solve the problem but I imagine it would decrease the load on ERs. Less people, less visits.

The other thing is hosptial waste..... supplies just get wasted. They’re like chapstick. You buy a bottle. Never use the entire thing. Turns up missing or gets thrown away. Hosptial supplies and equipment are the same way except that shit isnt just $1.00 a stick. It can be thousands.


The whole system is jacked. And billboards advertising the current wait time for an ER isn’t helping the problem.
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7/13/2019 4:20pm
Close the borders and that may or may not cut down on a lot of non-paying ER seekers. Won’t eliminate it all, but why is it...
Close the borders and that may or may not cut down on a lot of non-paying ER seekers. Won’t eliminate it all, but why is it up to us to insure illegals or eat their cost of non-payment ?

Even if you fly here legally on a visa and show up to a hospital you never have to pay that bill. So maybe the border closing wouldn’t solve the problem but I imagine it would decrease the load on ERs. Less people, less visits.

The other thing is hosptial waste..... supplies just get wasted. They’re like chapstick. You buy a bottle. Never use the entire thing. Turns up missing or gets thrown away. Hosptial supplies and equipment are the same way except that shit isnt just $1.00 a stick. It can be thousands.


The whole system is jacked. And billboards advertising the current wait time for an ER isn’t helping the problem.
The thing to do is to turn it over to the government. They will increase efficiency and cut costs like they always do. Plus, they won't decide who lives and dies. They'll spend whatever is necessary to keep us alive. Even better, after you pay your massive tax bill, it's all free! There's no way the entire system ends up being like the VA. Free health care! Free college! Free housing! Guaranteed income of at least $1000 a month.
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