Do we see any other manufacturer flip their motor around like a Yamaha?

aeffertz
Profile picture for user aeffertz
Posts
12823
Joined
7/16/2015
Location
La Crosse, WI, USA
aeffertz
Edited Date/Time 7/8/2019 1:50pm
For years now we hear all this talk about how the Yamaha’s motor is unbelievable and no one else can match it.l, etc. Bored at work and this off week has me wondering if any other brand would be willing to consider the design. Suzuki basically copied the YZ125 motor IIRC, maybe they could slice off another piece of that pie!

Will it happen? No, probably not, but you’d have to think some brands would get tired of their paid riders or reviewers dogging their bikes for being low on power compared to another brand.

Will it happen?

2
2
|
seventeen
Profile picture for user seventeen
Posts
358
Joined
2/25/2019
Location
Port Saint Lucie, FL, USA
seventeen 7/8/2019 9:52am
7/8/2019 9:52am
Judging my the Yamaha 250f's jumping the Leap and the uphill triple at Millville preaty dang easy I'd say that design maybe the way to go...at least in 250f racing.
DJS721
Profile picture for user DJS721
Posts
150
Joined
1/1/2014
Location
North Am Erica, OH, USA
DJS721 7/8/2019 9:58am
7/8/2019 9:58am
Predict Cannondale will do it
10
2
GeorgiePorgie 7/8/2019 10:08am
7/8/2019 10:08am
I dunno but whatever it is the Austrians are doing.....watch them closely
1
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6433
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX, USA
Johnny Depp 7/8/2019 10:10am
7/8/2019 10:10am
Not at all. If they were dominating in both classes maybe a different outcome, but they are not. I see the easily programmable FI system being more likely adopted universally.

A similar question might be if other manufacturer's are going to steel frames? Dual Exhausts? Counter Balancer's on 2t's?

1

The Shop

See All »
sandtrack315
Profile picture for user sandtrack315
Posts
2863
Joined
7/19/2013
Location
Philadelphia, PA, USA
sandtrack315 7/8/2019 10:19am
7/8/2019 10:19am
I could see it for sure on a 250F, where power is harder to come by and stability / handling is not as hard to figure out as on the 450.
wolf918
Profile picture for user wolf918
Posts
155
Joined
2/13/2019
Location
Bulverde, TX, USA
wolf918 7/8/2019 10:20am
7/8/2019 10:20am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Not at all. If they were dominating in both classes maybe a different outcome, but they are not. I see the easily programmable FI system being...
Not at all. If they were dominating in both classes maybe a different outcome, but they are not. I see the easily programmable FI system being more likely adopted universally.

A similar question might be if other manufacturer's are going to steel frames? Dual Exhausts? Counter Balancer's on 2t's?

Didn’t I see 1 or maybe 2 Yamahas blow or seize up Saturday? I think there flirting with the hp ceiling of the current engine design. I’m waiting for the first manufacture to come out with variable cam timing. I think VCT in a 250 is going to hinder 450 sales alot.
2
Harry Backmon 7/8/2019 10:35am
7/8/2019 10:35am
I doubt it. It's taken Yamaha almost a decade to get the design right. I can't see anyone else observing that and thinking they want to chance the teething problems Yamaha went through.
Phil109
Profile picture for user Phil109
Posts
640
Joined
7/7/2019
Location
Montgomery, TX, USA
Phil109 7/8/2019 10:39am
7/8/2019 10:39am
I can only imagine the cream of the crop 450 they’d have right now if Yamaha hadn’t flipped the stupid engine around.
2
1
Ebs
Profile picture for user Ebs
Posts
847
Joined
6/1/2014
Location
USA
Ebs 7/8/2019 12:51pm
7/8/2019 12:51pm Edited Date/Time 7/8/2019 12:55pm
Husaberg wasn't afraid to go all the way with it...




2
Dirty Points 7/8/2019 1:13pm
7/8/2019 1:13pm Edited Date/Time 7/8/2019 1:27pm
Phil109 wrote:
I can only imagine the cream of the crop 450 they’d have right now if Yamaha hadn’t flipped the stupid engine around.
I'd imagine their 450 might even finish at the top (cream) of the Vital shootout if they hadn't.
1
Falcon
Profile picture for user Falcon
Posts
12676
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
Falcon 7/8/2019 1:19pm
7/8/2019 1:19pm
Remember, manufacturers are concerned with how a motorcycle SELLS, not necessarily how it performs. (Those are related but not equivalent.)
Looking at how much shade Yamaha has taken from various pundits over the last 10 years, I'd say no manufacturer will do it. Too much risk, too much R&D, and too little guaranteed ROI.
sandtrack315
Profile picture for user sandtrack315
Posts
2863
Joined
7/19/2013
Location
Philadelphia, PA, USA
sandtrack315 7/8/2019 1:26pm
7/8/2019 1:26pm Edited Date/Time 7/8/2019 1:27pm
wolf918 wrote:
Didn’t I see 1 or maybe 2 Yamahas blow or seize up Saturday? I think there flirting with the hp ceiling of the current engine design...
Didn’t I see 1 or maybe 2 Yamahas blow or seize up Saturday? I think there flirting with the hp ceiling of the current engine design. I’m waiting for the first manufacture to come out with variable cam timing. I think VCT in a 250 is going to hinder 450 sales alot.
As a fan of riding a 250 over a 450, I am hoping the manufacturers focus their efforts on building monster 250s, which have the right amount of HP for the majority of riders who are under 175 pounds.
1
Harry Backmon 7/8/2019 1:29pm
7/8/2019 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 7/8/2019 1:45pm
Phil109 wrote:
I can only imagine the cream of the crop 450 they’d have right now if Yamaha hadn’t flipped the stupid engine around.
Dirty Points wrote:
I'd imagine their 450 might even finish at the top (cream) of the Vital shootout if they hadn't.
Haha! Yeah, just imagine. Personally, based on observation and experience, the latest Yamaha is the most complete package you can buy. Yes they need to lose weight. Apparently they have, but all available info about the 2020 450 shows it weighing the same. Weird.

I've been critical of Yamaha, so please don't accuse me of being a brand loyalist. I'm still pissed my YZ smoker needed three 3rd gears over the five years I owned it. Their weld quality assurance needs to improve. Their air filter design on the F models sucks.

But, as an overall package, buy it, spend $225 on the Twin Air Powerflo kit. Set sag and use the clickers to dial it (believe it or not, I've found mxa's settings are spot on for the 2019). Use the app to tune the power delivery to your liking. Check the spokes and sprocket bolts after the first few rides, then forget about them and check them every few months (they won't be loose). You don't need a pipe, you don't need your suspension revalved. If you weigh under 140 or more than 200, or are an A class rider, you might need to respring, but that's it. A pipe and suspension revalve is somewhere north of $1000+ depending on who you use and what pipe you buy.

Now, go out and enjoy and pray you didn't get a lemon third gear.
1
1
Thisusernameisavailable 7/8/2019 1:43pm
7/8/2019 1:43pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I doubt it. It's taken Yamaha almost a decade to get the design right. I can't see anyone else observing that and thinking they want to...
I doubt it. It's taken Yamaha almost a decade to get the design right. I can't see anyone else observing that and thinking they want to chance the teething problems Yamaha went through.
You don’t think the ‘other’ manufacturer has already purchased one to look at it and measure it? And therefore will avoid all of Yamahas teething problems in the early years.
Yes, it happens.
I believe Suzuki made a carbon copy of the YZ250 engine and fitted it in the RM.
1
Harry Backmon 7/8/2019 1:49pm
7/8/2019 1:49pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I doubt it. It's taken Yamaha almost a decade to get the design right. I can't see anyone else observing that and thinking they want to...
I doubt it. It's taken Yamaha almost a decade to get the design right. I can't see anyone else observing that and thinking they want to chance the teething problems Yamaha went through.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
You don’t think the ‘other’ manufacturer has already purchased one to look at it and measure it? And therefore will avoid all of Yamahas teething problems...
You don’t think the ‘other’ manufacturer has already purchased one to look at it and measure it? And therefore will avoid all of Yamahas teething problems in the early years.
Yes, it happens.
I believe Suzuki made a carbon copy of the YZ250 engine and fitted it in the RM.
I don't know, but you make a good point. Thanks.

Post a reply to: Do we see any other manufacturer flip their motor around like a Yamaha?