Silly question for the pool owners

APLMAN99
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Edited Date/Time 5/29/2019 2:17pm
New to the in ground pool thing, When I test for chlorine and ph, I seem to be chronically lower than ideal with my ph. The product that my local pool store recommends is a powder/granular and when I add it the pool clouds up for more than 24 hours. Is there a product that doesn’t do this, or a way of adding it to the pool that keeps this from happening?
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5/19/2019 7:52am Edited Date/Time 5/19/2019 7:53am
Thought I might be able to help, AP, but my pool was always chronically higher in PH, so I was constantly adding acid. Never once had to raise the PH in 13 years I owned an in-ground pool. Sumdood will come along and be able to help.
APLMAN99
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5/19/2019 7:57am
Thought I might be able to help, AP, but my pool was always chronically higher in PH, so I was constantly adding acid. Never once had...
Thought I might be able to help, AP, but my pool was always chronically higher in PH, so I was constantly adding acid. Never once had to raise the PH in 13 years I owned an in-ground pool. Sumdood will come along and be able to help.
I would have assumed that our ph was high from the water source, but if it is then the chlorine must be really bringing it down or something!
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FLmxer
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5/19/2019 7:58am
I have to be honest. I have not checked my pool ph in a long while. I just throw a powdered shock in when it rains or I see a little possible algae. I give it a brush once a week and the Hayward skimmer and auto feed pool pump system keep it sparkling clear for years.
5/19/2019 8:00am
I use to know that sort of stuff about how each chemical reacts to the other, but I've pretty much forgotten. We had a salt pool, so between adding acid, salt and other chemicals sometimes it felt like I was making a giant vat of cake batter!

Like I said though, Sumdood will eventually see this and have a solution for you I'm sure.

The Shop

reded
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5/19/2019 12:20pm
FLmxer wrote:
I have to be honest. I have not checked my pool ph in a long while. I just throw a powdered shock in when it rains...
I have to be honest. I have not checked my pool ph in a long while. I just throw a powdered shock in when it rains or I see a little possible algae. I give it a brush once a week and the Hayward skimmer and auto feed pool pump system keep it sparkling clear for years.
Yep. Don’t keep chasing your tail. If it’s clear and doesn’t sting your eyes, swim. Like I’ve always said, when I was a kid I swam in ponds with run-off cattle shit and chemicals from the fields. I’m sure I’ll be fine swimming in a crystal clear pool.
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APLMAN99
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5/19/2019 3:24pm
FLmxer wrote:
I have to be honest. I have not checked my pool ph in a long while. I just throw a powdered shock in when it rains...
I have to be honest. I have not checked my pool ph in a long while. I just throw a powdered shock in when it rains or I see a little possible algae. I give it a brush once a week and the Hayward skimmer and auto feed pool pump system keep it sparkling clear for years.
reded wrote:
Yep. Don’t keep chasing your tail. If it’s clear and doesn’t sting your eyes, swim. Like I’ve always said, when I was a kid I swam...
Yep. Don’t keep chasing your tail. If it’s clear and doesn’t sting your eyes, swim. Like I’ve always said, when I was a kid I swam in ponds with run-off cattle shit and chemicals from the fields. I’m sure I’ll be fine swimming in a crystal clear pool.
I just can't seem to get it clear for very long. 2 weeks ago and you could see the 12 ft bottom like you were looking at a 4K screen then a few days later it was getting dull. Tested, did the recommendations, and every time I get it balanced it only lasts a day or 2. It's been cloudy this whole weekend.....
FLmxer
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5/19/2019 5:47pm
Do you have an inline chlorine tab dispenser or a floating tap dispenser? It helps.
reded
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5/19/2019 6:00pm
How often/what duration does your pump run? What filter media are you using?
APLMAN99
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5/19/2019 6:39pm
Floating dispenser with chlorine tabs, run the pump nearly constantly, and have been cleaning the sand filter a couple times a day.

The weird thing is how the dry chems I add cloud the pool so quickly and it doesn't clear up. I added floculant last night and after a couple hours left the pump off last night but still cloudy/milky today.
reded
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5/20/2019 2:48am Edited Date/Time 5/20/2019 2:51am
I’ve never used a dispenser, I throw my tabs straight in the skimmer basket and have noticed that my water will go cloudy in a day if I forget to replace one after it dissolves. I’ve got my pump set on 4hrs on/4hrs off cycle times and my water stays perfect if I keep the chemicals on a steady schedule.
mxtech1
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5/20/2019 7:57am
What brand of chemicals are you using?

I have noticed a big difference in chemical quality when I buy brands like Pool Logic from our local pool store vs. the big box store brands.

Your PH and alkalinity parameters need to be in check before adding chlorine, otherwise your free chlorine will be less than ideal and it will not last long. It is important to do some research on free chlorine and total available chlorine.

I have had the best luck with the following routine:
1) Use slow-dissolve pucks in an inline chlorinator
2) Shock with liquid chlorine a 1x per week
3) Add a flock chemical 1x per week. Run pump long enough to turn entire water volume over once. Turn pump off overnight and let material settle. Vacuum entire pool on WASTE setting (I have a sand filter and have found that if I want crystal clear water the fine particulates have to go through the waste stream otherwise I just can't get that sparkle clear water)


Pools are a labor of love and your water quality is directly related to your chemical and maintenance routines.
newmann
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5/20/2019 11:26am
Is it a new pool or fresh remodel? It may take a few weeks to get the water stable with new plaster.
APLMAN99
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5/20/2019 11:31am
Thanks for the help so far, guys.

I woke up this morning and it was a slight bit better, but still pretty "creamy/cloudy". I turned the pump off and will check it when I get home tonight and maybe try to vacuum to waste.

Hard to describe but when you look in the skimmer you can see the granules from the pH booster, the shock granules, etc. It's like they just aren't dissolving at all. I'm tempted to drain it most of the way and start over with fresh water (water is basically free so no big issues with cost, etc.) and only use liquid chems if I can do it that way.

For reference, at the shallow side of the pool I couldn't see the first step down clearly on Saturday. Sunday afternoon I could see it, but it was hazy. This morning I could make out the second step, but still a lot of cloudiness even to see the first step.

One fly in the ointment is that the orginal owner permanently plugged the main drain due to leaks, so the only supply/vacuum side I have comes from the skimmer and I think that's a lot to ask when it's a little over 25K gallons, but it seems like I should be getting better performance/filtration than I currently do.
borg
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5/20/2019 12:01pm
I sure would think that you need that bottom drain. The skimmer takes water from the surface and returns it a foot or so below the surface. You may be circulating the same 2 feet of water over and over. A friend of mine has an auto sweeper that runs around on the bottom and keeps the deeper water agitated. It hooks up to the skimmer I think and runs when the filter is running. The other thing you might want to check is the actual flow you are getting through the filter. With only the skimmer it may be very restricted. There should be some sort of adjustment for the skimmer flow. It could be in the skimmer or by the pump.
APLMAN99
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5/20/2019 12:05pm
I actually started using the Clorox app a little bit ago, where you take the test strip and then it captures the photo against the gray background. My only concern is that I did the same test 5 minutes apart and got some pretty different results. The first time my FC level was 10, then 5 minutes later it was down to 1. Pretty screwy. But now when I do it just a little bit apart it is more consistent.

I am sure this will start to get easier, but I definitely am frustrated on missing out on a weekend in the pool!
newmann
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5/20/2019 12:34pm
No bottom drain? Any idea where that leak is? If not too deep it will obviously develop a wet spot somewhere between the pool and the pump. Hopefully it isn't too deep and could be accessed to repair. Pool guys may have a method to search out leaks.

Do you have a Polaris or other type of robot cleaner?
mxtech1
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5/20/2019 2:15pm
It sounds like you need to shock the water again (maybe multiple times) if you keep dealing with cloudy conditions. Shock it, flock it, and then vacuum to waste. A sand filter is not that good at getting fine particulate matter out like a cartridge or DE filter is. It took me years of trying to vacuum through the filter to realize the fine particles were just being blown back into the pool.

Once the water is clear and sparkling, stay on top of your daily chlorine and vacuum to waste frequently. Shock as needed. I have had several good years where I haven’t had to use any chemicals other than chlorine, but many other years where I let the chlorine get low and then I am fighting with Algaecides and other stuff for months on end.
5/20/2019 2:53pm
Clorox or Target bleach or whatever is cheapest - that and having total alkalinity figured out solves a ton of problems.
APLMAN99
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5/20/2019 6:38pm
I think tomorrow night I’m just going to put on the goggles and take the vacuum hose down to the deep end to see if there are clumps of granular down there. Ran the vac on waste for quite a while tonight and took out over a foot of water and when I captured it in a bucket you could see the granules floating in the bucket. Really frustrating.
APLMAN99
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5/20/2019 6:43pm
Here’s what it was like this morning after having the pump off overnight. With the pump off the water wasn’t recirculating or skimming so I had some tree trash on the sides. You can just make out the pool light under the diving board through the haze.


mxtech1
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5/20/2019 7:20pm
You are dealing with a tree pollen issue. When pollen counts are high for several days in a row, the pollen eventually works it’s way into the water. Pollen can be very fine and almost impossible for a sand filter to remove. This is primarily only a problem in the Spring and early summer.

You can add aluminum sulfate to get the pollen to clump together so it can be filtered, but I would still suggest vacuuming to waste.

A solar cover is your best defense to keeping tree junk out.
newmann
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5/21/2019 4:41am
I don’t see the pollen issue. We get bad pollen, covers everything and will leave a yellow ring around the edge of the pool . I just see a lot of cloudiness like I get when I shock with granulated chlorine. Mine will clear within 24 hours and you can see all the undisolved granules on the bottom. Fire up the Polaris and it will sweep them around until it is all dissolved. Needs better filtering and circulation. Are we sure the diverted valve on the filter is in good shape?
IWreckALot
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5/21/2019 7:21am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think tomorrow night I’m just going to put on the goggles and take the vacuum hose down to the deep end to see if there...
I think tomorrow night I’m just going to put on the goggles and take the vacuum hose down to the deep end to see if there are clumps of granular down there. Ran the vac on waste for quite a while tonight and took out over a foot of water and when I captured it in a bucket you could see the granules floating in the bucket. Really frustrating.
Are you on a well? You probably have a shit ton of Calcium in your water if so. Calcium will make a pool cloudy.

You can take your water to a local pool shop and they'll test for all sorts of crap. Metals, calcium, PH and chlorine are pretty standard around here.

Long term you'll want to eventually end up with a cartridge or DE filter. DE has the finest micron filtering but the difference between cartridge and DE is marginal from a necessity standpoint. Sand is by far the lowest micron filtering unfortunately. Had a pool with a sand trap and it was a constant beating.
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5/21/2019 9:35am
Reading all this sure makes me happy that when I had a pool I had a salt pool. All I ever did was throw in a bag of salt once in awhile and a bag of shock Xtra Blue after we had a pool party. Chlorine made by a chlorine generator is the purest. Like I said in a post above, the only other thing I ever did was throw in a cup of acid every week to keep the PH in limits.
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sumdood
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5/21/2019 10:37am
What powdered chlorine are you using ? Is it Tri-chlor, Di-Chlor, or Cal Hypo ? (Calcium Hypochloride) The cal hypo is sold by a lot of stores as a shock, it clouds the water and raises ph. Most pool guys hate the shit. Is it fiberglass ? Looks like it from the photo
APLMAN99
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5/21/2019 11:23am
I think at least some of it is that my Polaris pool cleaner (360, pressure side) isn't functioning like it should. The back up valve appears to be shot and several of the swivels are leaking like sieves as well. Going to see if I can get some of those parts today, it did a great job when I first opened up the pool.

I will probably have pollen issues, I am truly completely closed in with tall trees, but this cloudiness occurs when I have added the powdered chemicals like pH up, the shock stuff, etc. It just instantly spreads out and clouds, and not it isn't going away/dissolving. If the Polaris isn't agitating like it was, that could explain some of it.

Oh well, back to the pool store. I swear they will start offering up credit apps just to enter those places soon! They were a bit help when I first opened it but their prices are nearly 3X anywhere else so I haven't been as much because I feel guilty buying my stuff elsewhere. But there are only a few places in town that actually have the hardware so I don't feel terrible if I at least give them that business.
newmann
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5/26/2019 10:02am
Any progress on clearing it up? Did a little sweeping on mine after putting some chemicals in and I stirred a bunch of stuff up off the bottom making it quite cloudy. Cleared up overnight. DE filter here.





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APLMAN99
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5/27/2019 11:43am
Yeah, got it clear finally, but haven't had much of a chance to use it till today!

I think I was relying on too much liquid chlorine, and then using the powdered chemicals to get the other indices in balance just put me on a roller coaster ride. I ended up putting 2 chlorine tablets in the floater and 2 in the skimmer and it's stabilized my chlorine pretty well. Was backflushing the filter 3-4 times a day for several days. Even though filter pressure wasn't high, it would discharge cloudy for 4-5 minutes each time.

After I got it in decent balance I added clarifier one night and another dose the next morning. Came home that evening to a pretty clear pool, and then vacuumed the bottom 3 nights straight and it's been pretty consistent since then.

Hopefully I don't screw it up again!!! Thanks everyone for the help and tips!
IWreckALot
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5/28/2019 11:07am
newmann wrote:
Any progress on clearing it up? Did a little sweeping on mine after putting some chemicals in and I stirred a bunch of stuff up off...
Any progress on clearing it up? Did a little sweeping on mine after putting some chemicals in and I stirred a bunch of stuff up off the bottom making it quite cloudy. Cleared up overnight. DE filter here.





Well I probably won't ever have a backyard like yours but I finally finished my pavillion build this last week. Definitely makes it much more tolerable to sit out in the evenings back there without the sun beating down on you.






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arm2004
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5/29/2019 2:31am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2019 2:33am
Owned a pool for many years, i bet you cloudy water is because you have not shocked it high enough to kill all the living organisms. I use to spend a boat load of money at the pool store take water to them they test it and sell me a bunch of chemicals.Now i have a salt water generator - 2 bags of salt, 4 bottles of bleach and CYA stabilizer at beginning of year and pretty much done treating the pool. For a great web sight with very good info and a forum you can get straight answers on- https://www.troublefreepool.com
The best thing you can do is read under the pool school topic and buy a Tayor K-2006 test kit for $50
Glad you got it cleared up.

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